Opinion Paid exclusives and long-term support on a failing store(launcher)

[Kyougar]

One of the arguments about the Epic paid-exclusives and the unknown survivability of the devs who are taking the 12-month deal is, that they got (probably) enough money from Epic to survive the 12 months if there are not enough customers on the Epic store.

This may be possible for one-and-done games, but what about long-term projects and GaaS games? It is not certain that customers come to your "service" game after it was a 12-month exclusive, be it, out of protest, lost interest, or because they bought a competing game.

Don't know if the devs of Satisfactory said anything about the future of the game and if they support it longterm like their rival Factorio, but could they even survive a 12-month drought on the Epic store if their plan was to live from the game for i.e. five to ten years?
Yes, they got money from Epic, but how do they determine if the (possible) lackluster sales are from a failing storefront that can't attract customers or from a general disinterest in their game?
Do they continue to support and work on their game in those 12 months and pray for the Steam audience?

"One-and-done" games have it easier, they get the money from Epic, good sales would be cool, but wouldn't be breaking their neck if the sales are lackluster. They would already work on their next game.

 

[GhostTrick]

Well, they'd deserve it ?
I mean, no one forces them to make that kind of dumb deals.
Accepting to release on a store without any userbase yet is silly af.
The whole bet is getting visibility (which they had on Steam and even more) from the Fortnite PC userbase.
The whole bet is dumb af. On Steam you get visibility because the userbase is here to buy and play games.
On Epic Launcher though ? People use it to play a F2P title. There's a reason why they give free games. To try to make their userbase bigger.
It was the same dumb reasoning as Discord. Millions of users. Sure. But they use a chat app. They're not necessarily here for games.

Btw, this is also why I wont download any free games of their. If you want more Epic Store exclusives, go on. Because these people downloading games are just a way for Epic to convince devs that they have a userbase.

 

[lashman]

devs of Satisfactory

THQ bought them a few months ago

 

[Deku]

These devs only gained money, not the audience for their games. I don't believe that they will be able to continue after 12 months of exclusivity if they can't get the audience. Fortnite players probably don't want to play any other games than Fortnite.
I kind of understand why they want to make a 12 month exclusivity, because they want money. They probably don't think that they will earn enough from regular sales. One thing I can't understand is why Team Meat signed an exclusivity, if it was for money. They already have a large fan base.

THQ bought them a few months ago

That's another thing I don't understand. THQ did say that they won't do exclusivity, didn't they?

 

[lashman]

That's another thing I don't understand. THQ did say that they won't do exclusivity, didn't they?

they signed the Epic thing before THQ bought them ... same thing with Obsidian and The Outer Worlds (gonna be published by Private Division even though MS owns them now)

 

[Deku]

they signed the Epic thing before THQ bought them ... same thing with Obsidian and The Outer Worlds (gonna be published by Private Division even though MS owns them now)

Oh, I wonder if THQ knew about this deal before buying them. Couldn't THQ break the deal?

 

[lashman]

Oh, I wonder if THQ knew about this deal before buying them. Couldn't THQ break the deal?

probably not without paying waaaaay more than they got .... so, you know ...

 

[Kyougar]

Do we know of any "extended support" games that have paid exclusivity on Epic?

 

[lashman]

Do we know of any "extended support" games that have paid exclusivity on Epic?

don't think so .... maybe Hades since that's in “early access” (for apparently 18 months) ... but other than that — not really ... everything they announced so far are one-and-done games

 

[RionaaM]

It's a risk, for sure. They're gambling with the health of their game's community for that initial Epic cash. Personally, I refuse to support games whose devs did this (not sure about their future games yet; if they stop doing this I'll probably consider buying those I'm interested in), so they won't get a cent from me even if they come out on Steam a year later.

 

[Kyougar]

BTW I didn't get the permission to post this thread on Era and have to post it in the graveyard Epic "Mega"thread.

 

[lashman]

BTW I didn't get the permission to post this thread on Era and have to post it in the graveyard Epic "Mega"thread.

pretty sure it'll be the case for all the epic-related threads from now on

 

[Kyougar]

pretty sure it'll be the case for all the epic-related threads from now on

That's why I asked JaseC beforehand.
But they should use this across the board with other topics.

 

[lashman]

That's why I asked JaseC beforehand.
But they should use this across the board with other topics.

who knows why they don't

 

[Kyougar]

Who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[uraizen]

Yeah, well... they should have thought of that beforehand. I'm sure they're happy, content, and just enjoying themselves. I believe it was said here that a game only gets one launch. These games will be slowly removed from wishlists and when it finally hits even those that don't follow this will be like "didn't this come out a long time ago? I'll wait for a sale."

I hope it was worth it because PC gamers can be a stubborn bunch. They never forget and rarely forgive.

 

[lashman]

I hope it was worth it because PC gamers can be a stubborn bunch. They never forget and rarely forgive.

yeah, that's absolutely true ... for better or worse

 

[Deku]

I wonder how big the Epic Fortnite Money Bag is. How many more devs can they buy for exclusivity and how long can this continue?

 

[lashman]

I wonder how big the Epic Fortnite Money Bag is. How many more devs can they buy for exclusivity and how long can this continue?

hopefully not TOO big

 

[Nabs]

I wonder if they're going to be pushing for more early access titles as well. I just don't get how they expect to get the feedback they want with such a small playerbase. Good luck, I guess.

I wonder how big the Epic Fortnite Money Bag is. How many more devs can they buy for exclusivity and how long can this continue?

I don't think we've seen anything yet. Epic has a lot of money to spend, and the market they're entering is pretty big. They've already committed to a year of free stuff, so I bet they're gonna keep adding more exclusives throughout the year. I wouldn't be surprised if that E3 PC show will suck terribly this year.

I just hope indie devs know what they're signing up for, and how much goodwill they're losing in the process. I'm sure the money is great, so make the right choice for long term success.

 

[Ascheroth]

I wonder if they're going to be pushing for more early access titles as well. I just don't get how they expect to get the feedback they want with such a small playerbase. Good luck, I guess.

You see, the small playerbase is actually a good thing for early access games on Epic.
Imagine thousands of people would be in the discord server to give feedback, that would be chaos. Since there are no forums and stuff.

 

[lashman]

I wonder if they're going to be pushing for more early access titles as well. I just don't get how they expect to get the feedback they want with such a small playerbase. Good luck, I guess.

yeah ... it's just insane doing early access on a platform that doesn't have reviews or forums .... or any other way to contact the dev without going to reddit, or discord, or whatever

I don't think we've seen anything yet. Epic has a lot of money to spend, and the market they're entering is pretty big. They've already committed to a year of free stuff, so I bet they're gonna keep adding more exclusives throughout the year. I wouldn't be surprised if that E3 PC show will suck terribly this year.

oh they're DEFINITELY not done ... not even close, unfortunately

and yeah - next PC Show is gonna suck HARD

 

[Matimeo]

The money can be pretty substantial for an indie. Had a buddy take a ps+ deal for his small company's game.
The payout was enough to make them whole for that game and to fund their next initiative.

I think sometimes as consumers its easy to forget that game development is closer to art than you think
Most developers are not trying to hit it big, that's very much a business point of view,
Most of us just wanted to make games for a living not get rich. Very similar to most artists, money is not the motivator.

My buddy quit AAA , went from a huge paycheck to nothing, because he wanted freedom to make the games he wanted.
A success is breaking even, and having enough to hopefully fund your next project and current living, health expenses.

The chances of being a break out hit are slim , even if your game is good.
Not everyone wants to roll the dice. People have families to support.
Not too mention employees, the smaller amount the tougher it is to have to cut them.

Kind of hard to turn that down, its a guarantee of keeping the lights on for potentially another year or so.

 

[RionaaM]

The money can be pretty substantial for an indie. Had a buddy take a ps+ deal for his small company's game.
The payout was enough to make them whole for that game and to fund their next initiative.

I think sometimes as consumers its easy to forget that game development is closer to art than you think
Most developers are not trying to hit it big, that's very much a business point of view,
Most of us just wanted to make games for a living not get rich. Very similar to most artists, money is not the motivator.

My buddy quit AAA , went from a huge paycheck to nothing, because he wanted freedom to make the games he wanted.
A success is breaking even, and having enough to hopefully fund your next project and current living, health expenses.

The chances of being a break out hit are slim , even if your game is good.
Not everyone wants to roll the dice. People have families to support.
Not too mention employees, the smaller amount the tougher it is to have to cut them.

Kind of hard to turn that down, its a guarantee of keeping the lights on for potentially another year or so.

This is why I don't blame those who take this deal. If I were in their place, I might do that too. It may be the right thing for them to do, who knows. I'm just saying that, as a consumer, it doesn't benefit me at all and thus I won't support this with my money.

 

[GhostTrick]

The money can be pretty substantial for an indie. Had a buddy take a ps+ deal for his small company's game.
The payout was enough to make them whole for that game and to fund their next initiative.

I think sometimes as consumers its easy to forget that game development is closer to art than you think
Most developers are not trying to hit it big, that's very much a business point of view,
Most of us just wanted to make games for a living not get rich. Very similar to most artists, money is not the motivator.

My buddy quit AAA , went from a huge paycheck to nothing, because he wanted freedom to make the games he wanted.
A success is breaking even, and having enough to hopefully fund your next project and current living, health expenses.

The chances of being a break out hit are slim , even if your game is good.
Not everyone wants to roll the dice. People have families to support.
Not too mention employees, the smaller amount the tougher it is to have to cut them.

Kind of hard to turn that down, its a guarantee of keeping the lights on for potentially another year or so.

Normally, I would agree with you. The only problem so far is that nearly all these exclusives are either published by mid tier publishers (Annapurna, Tripwire) or owned by mid tier publishers (Coffee Stains is owned by THQ Nordic). Hence why I believe we're not in the same case as "small indie wants a paycheck as a safety net".

 

[Kyougar]

The money can be pretty substantial for an indie. Had a buddy take a ps+ deal for his small company's game.
The payout was enough to make them whole for that game and to fund their next initiative.

I think sometimes as consumers its easy to forget that game development is closer to art than you think
Most developers are not trying to hit it big, that's very much a business point of view,
Most of us just wanted to make games for a living not get rich. Very similar to most artists, money is not the motivator.

My buddy quit AAA , went from a huge paycheck to nothing, because he wanted freedom to make the games he wanted.
A success is breaking even, and having enough to hopefully fund your next project and current living, health expenses.

The chances of being a break out hit are slim , even if your game is good.
Not everyone wants to roll the dice. People have families to support.
Not too mention employees, the smaller amount the tougher it is to have to cut them.

Kind of hard to turn that down, its a guarantee of keeping the lights on for potentially another year or so.

But the premise of this Thread is the question if a dev should take this deal if he is expecting to support (and live from) that game for a decade.
One-and-done games have little risk in doing this deal (unless your audience is vindictive and feels betrayed, then it could tank your company)

 

[xist]

But the premise of this Thread is the question if a dev should take this deal if he is expecting to support (and live from) that game for a decade.
One-and-done games have little risk in doing this deal (unless your audience is vindictive and feels betrayed, then it could tank your company)

Realistically how many games can deliver on those terms? Most games get forgotten in 6 to 12 months unless they feature in "best of" lists or are indie darlings. I think that if you take that sweet Epic money and use it to support you for your next potentially non Epic locked deal you're probably making a sensible life choice.

 

[OSatan]

They got what they wanted: Money.

If they did the math or epic sold them snake oil power points that "this money + your 3billion sales in one year" i don't know.

 

[lashman]

that's true ... it's just sad they decided to leave most of their audience behind

 

[Kyougar]

Realistically how many games can deliver on those terms? Most games get forgotten in 6 to 12 months unless they feature in "best of" lists or are indie darlings. I think that if you take that sweet Epic money and use it to support you for your next potentially non Epic locked deal you're probably making a sensible life choice.

Like I said, most are one-and-done games, regardless if they have legs or not. But what about the Service games, early access, extended Support, etc.
Games like
Factorio,
No Mans Sky
Paradox 4x
Stardew Valley
Rimworld
Eco
etc.

Those games need a vision, an investment from the dev, and the believe that there is an audience for the game longtime.

 

[Alexandros]

I'm guessing that this is another form of gold rush. Epic has money and wants to spend it on buying exclusives, I can imagine some devs thinking "I got to get myself some of that action". They're probably thinking that if their Epic Games Store launch flops, which is very likely, they'll just have sort of a second launch on Steam down the line. I have my doubts that it will work but I guess we'll see.