News Epic Games Store

[Deleted member 113]

I think it's a little unfair to point the thread being bumped as free publicity. This is also about point out bad practices, news - which games becoming exclusives are - and voicing arguments against them. If there's no voice against exclusivity practices, then there is a risk of it becoming normalized.

I understand your point.

But, I still find extremely frustrating, to say the least, that every day games launch on Steam, no one spends any time discussing them, but there's plenty of time and comments about EGS titles.

And, on top of that, many of the same people will buy these games a year later on Steam, as soon as they launch, thus rewarding the same developers/publishers they so criticized. While, again, plenty of indie developers launch their games daily on Steam, and struggle for sales and visibility.

 

[liezryou]

The thing is, i can completely understand games that are indie or games that may not be able to get off their feet alone going for exclusivity. Like as an indie dev, sure you would love to be on steam but i think you would like it more to have guaranteed revenue. You don't know how people are going to react to your game and how much it's going to sell. So people may hate you, your game may get shit on for being exclusive, but at least you have the money to continue working your passion. And i'm all for that and anyone that calls out indie devs for doing this are stupid as hell and should really get some perspective.

What i don't get and i fucking hate is why the hell are big publishers and big franchises going this stupid way. Like you don't need the guaranteed revenue, sooo why? For the better cut on EGS? Ok you can get that without exclusivity. I really don't get it. Can anyone offer any insight?

 

[Swenhir]

I understand your point.

But, I still find extremely frustrating, to say the least, that every day games launch on Steam, no one spends any time discussing them, but there's plenty of time and comments about EGS titles.

I find it really understandable, and with all kindness I think that you are equating two very different types of attention. People's hype machines and the intense distaste they feel at games signing exclusivity deal aren't the same. I don't have the energy to scour through Steam, searching for gems all day. The Steam thread is a treasure in that respect but... It's kind of like saying : why are you doing A when you could be doing B? It's not the same kind of attention in the first place.

And, on top of that, many of the same people will buy these games a year later on Steam, as soon as they launch, thus rewarding the same developers/publishers they so criticized. While, again, plenty of indie developers launch their games daily on Steam, and struggle for sales and visibility.

I feel the same way personally. I will not reward studios that take these "fuck you, got mine" deals based on my personal judgment of what is best to fight exclusivity on PC. On the other hand, I feel it's unhealthy to judge people and interfere with their own judgment. It won't help to be hastily judgmental of people.

Still, the fact that outrage publicity will help developers sell games on Steam is indeed disheartening, but... On the other hand, look at how Epic is doing. They are still in massive loss mode. They are having to give games away, to give coupons and practically beg people to come over, thus nurturing a very special kind of user base for the EGS. Things are looking pretty bad for exclusivity right now.

 

[Ge0force]

If there's no voice against exclusivity practices, then there is a risk of it becoming normalized.

This is already happening. Hundred thousands of people are buying EGS exclusive games right now thanks to these coupons.

[UWSL]But, I still find extremely frustrating, to say the least, that every day games launch on Steam, no one spends any time discussing them, but there's plenty of time and comments about EGS titles.[/UWSL]

To be fair, Epic mainly buys exclusivity for the most awaited and/or wishlisted games. Most of these games already had lots of attention before Epic's moneyhat happened.

What i don't get and i fucking hate is why the hell are big publishers and big franchises going this stupid way. Like you don't need the guaranteed revenue, sooo why? For the better cut on EGS? Ok you can get that without exclusivity. I really don't get it. Can anyone offer any insight?

Epic pays lots of money to big publishers for exclusivity. 505 games got 10 million dollars for Control for example. I don't think there's any other significant reason than this.

 

[Swenhir]

This is already happening. Hundred thousands of people are buying EGS exclusive games right now thanks to these coupons.

"Buying" for free, which is kind of my point. People don't spend money on EGS. It's a freebie kind of place at best, whose popularity only lasts as long as the free lunch party is on. In my opinion anyway .

 

[Ge0force]

"Buying" for free, which is kind of my point. People don't spend money on EGS. It's a freebie kind of place at best, whose popularity only lasts as long as the free lunch party is on. In my opinion anyway .

Lots of people are spending moneybon EGS right now, because many games are extremely cheap thanks to the coupons.

 

[Alexandros]

Lots of people are spending moneybon EGS right now, because many games are extremely cheap thanks to the coupons.

Yeah but they're mostly spending Epic's money

 

[Ruvon]

I don't know, I like complaining. I'm British.

Come on. Is it possible that there's people in the world who know more about complaining than French people ?

 

[Acidote]

Come on. Is it possible that there's people in the world who know more about complaining than French people ?

Complaining is one of life's pleasures. Specially complaining to people who can't solve whatever you're complaining about.

 

[beep boop]

The recent Persona OST talk here got me listening to Persona DAN tracks again, and it's so good

 

[texhnolyze]

Yeah, I imagine the Epic deals and coupons are too good to pass up for lots of people. Like, Star Wars Jedi is $15 and Borderlands 3 is only $8 with the coupon here.

I probably won't get the same deal until years later on Steam.

 

[Cordelia]

Lots of people are spending moneybon EGS right now, because many games are extremely cheap thanks to the coupons.

This is correct. GTA V plus practically unlimited $10 discount make people buy games on EGS. Although it obviously won't translate into profits, it added so much into the numbers.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Good luck getting those numbers to buy anything at full price.

 

[C-Dub]

Numbers can create narratives, especially when Epic releases them, but that goes for developers talking to each other about how their games sell on different platforms too. I wouldn't worry about Epic using GTA freebie grabbers as an excuse to inflate the numbers because the guys already signed on with EGS will have their own story to tell, privately if necessary.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Reminder that 2K, one of the greediest shits around, gradually reduced their exclusivity deals over several releases until zero.

Gee I wonder why?

 

[Ge0force]

Yeah but they're mostly spending Epic's money

True. But it's still a win for Epic. People are building a significant library on their store, and they can report higher sales numbers for their money hatted games.

Also, more and more people and media are praising Epic for their free games and unseen discounts, and more and more people are caving in to install EGS.

I still believe that Epic is doing this because their store isn't doing very well without mainstream exclusives, free games and coupons. But I do wonder if their current strategy will actually work if they keep this up for a couple of years. I mean, Epic DOES have plenty of money to do so.

Good luck getting those numbers to buy anything at full price.

Epic's long term goal is based on exclusivity. Everything Epic is doing is based on convincing devs and publishers to release their games exclusively on their store. To do so, they need a huge user base.

Combined with the Unreal Engine and network services, Epic is aiming for a console-like lock-in.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Epic's long term goal is based on exclusivity. Everything Epic is doing is based on convincing devs and publishers to release their games exclusively on their store. To do so, they need a huge user base.

Combined with the Unreal Engine and network services, Epic is aiming for a console-like lock-in.

They've had the huge user base from minute 1 due to Fortnite. They need a huge user base that spends money not a handful million people logging in to claim GTAV, maybe buy Borderlands 3 and World War Z for dirt cheap on their sales and nothing else. Hell if we're to believe their top 20 sellers half of it is just old Ubisoft titles.

As much infinite money Epic might have, they aren't going to be a loss leader forever and nothing they've done so far has really done a meaningful dent on the PC mindshare beyond creating annoying discussions.

 

[TioChuck]

They've had the huge user base from minute 1 due to Fortnite. They need a huge user base that spends money not a handful million people logging in to claim GTAV, maybe buy Borderlands 3 and World War Z for dirt cheap on their sales and nothing else. Hell if we're to believe their top 20 sellers half of it is just old Ubisoft titles.

As much infinite money Epic might have, they aren't going to be a loss leader forever and nothing they've done so far has really done a meaningful dent on the PC mindshare beyond creating annoying discussions.

Epic has the big numbers on paper to convince execs that going exclusive is a good idea, what we need is the devs that took the deal early on to speak out of they experience selling only on EGS, but I´m afraid that they a locked in a extremily fucked NDA, if they are able to comunicate with other pubs/devs behind closed doors we maybe will have hope for the future.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Epic has the big numbers on paper to convince execs that going exclusive is a good idea, what we need is the devs that took the deal early on to speak out of they experience selling only on EGS, but I´m afraid that they a locked in a extremily fucked NDA, if they are able to comunicate with other pubs/devs behind closed doors we maybe will have hope for the future.

But they are speaking. The silence in a situation people would ideally be singing praises is deafening.

 

[lashman]

years in the making

 

[Ge0force]

They need a huge user base that spends money

Not if their goal is to become the ONLY store where you can buy the most popular games.

 

[Acidote]

They've had the huge user base from minute 1 due to Fortnite. They need a huge user base that spends money not a handful million people logging in to claim GTAV, maybe buy Borderlands 3 and World War Z for dirt cheap on their sales and nothing else. Hell if we're to believe their top 20 sellers half of it is just old Ubisoft titles.

As much infinite money Epic might have, they aren't going to be a loss leader forever and nothing they've done so far has really done a meaningful dent on the PC mindshare beyond creating annoying discussions.

I've been saying this for a while, what they're fighting hard for it's the each user's first transaction. They want the users to have some degree of investment in their platform so they're more inclined to continue doing so. That's what all the free games and specially coupons are for.

 

[NarohDethan]

The only way Epic will see a cent from me is with a new release of Unreal Tournament.

 

[Deleted member 113]

The only way Epic will see a cent from me is with a new release of Unreal Tournament.

For me, I guess it's too late.

But, that should have been their starting point.
They have IPs, instead of signing games to not launch on Steam, they should have spent some of their money reviving Unreal Tournament, Jazz Jackrabbit, (...).
If they have money to burn, and can affordable to lose money, why not support the people who basically "made them", the Unreal Tournament fanbase?

I actually had an Epic account (before requesting it to be deleted). You want to know what it was for? To play the alpha of that "crowdsourced" Unreal Tournament game (which was never something they put any effort in).

They should have made their own games, launching on their store, and when things matured enough, they could open the store to third-party games, like Valve did.
If they had done so, instead of simply signing crowdfunded games, and other titles that are already completed, and had this policy of free games and big discounts, I would be totally on board with using their store.

Even before Steam, I bought (and still buy) games pretty much from anywhere. Be it downloads, or as part of a launcher (Steam, Origin, ...).
So, using them would be no different.

But, instead of reviving Unreal Tournament, a series I was very found of (one of the few MP franchises I cared about, and who had a very creative community that kept putting out new content), they went and signed crowdfunded games like Phoenix Point, and Shenmue III, games I dropped quite a few € on, and when you piss me off, and try to "force me" into using your client at all costs, instead of me using it because I want to, you'll never get a cent from me.

 

[TioChuck]

Even with all my love for UT(I only have and Epic account because of UT4, years befefore EGS or even the UE market), I will never in my life spend a cent in the Epic Store, after all their shenanigans, I don't want to participate in anything related to the Epic Store.

 

[Wok]

It's the 3rd time in a row Epic is doing this. Coupons from the last time were valid until two weeks ago.

It is the 2nd time with infinitely many coupons. Last time, coupons were not renewable, you only had one, which expired two weeks ago if you did not use it.

 

[NarohDethan]

UT without CliffyB would be crap anyway

 

[Acidote]

Some of you forget that a new Unreal Tournament was their starting point. Along with Paragon.

Then Fortnite happened and both went 6ft under.

 

[Deleted member 113]

Some of you forget that a new Unreal Tournament was their starting point. Along with Paragon.

Then Fortnite happened and both went 6ft under.

Nah, the new UT was never something remotely serious.
They put people in the community making the game.
They didn't do shit.

And yes, that is my point.
Fortnite is big. They make a lot of money, so much that they can affordable to make deals where they lose money, for the exclusivity, for these giveaways, and for these discounts.
Instead of signing Borderlands 3 to be timed-exclusive (or Metro, or Outer Worlds, ...), they should have taken that money, and invested on new Epic games, like a new Unreal Tournament.

My opinion, of course.

 

[Acidote]

There's so much they could have started with that would've been a net positive than what they did.

 

[NarohDethan]

We can all blame PUBG

 

[C-Dub]

They should've taken the money and opened their publishing house sooner, making those games exclusive. I think some people are Steam-only, and will be forever, but most just don't like the moneyhats. I'd have a lot more respect for them if they'd taken a risk on the games and built a platform around that.

 

[Acidote]

I can subscribe that.

 

[NarohDethan]

They just have to

1. stop exclusives
2. Improve store

that’s all, I promise we EGS detractors will stop being so annoying

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Yeah. That's one of the things I don't fully understand regarding people's reaction to the EGS.

There are so many other games, and developers around.
A game is exclusive to the EGS, and you don't want to support it? Buy something else.

I still believe people spend too much time, and give too much free publicity, to the games that are turning to exclusivity, while not giving any time to other developers and games, who don't pull this crap.

Some of these games, if they weren't exclusive, most people wouldn't even talk about them.
I'm not talking about the big ones, of course. But a few of the indie titles, if they launched on Steam, probably no one would talk about them.

Why this fixation with shitty practices, and shitty developers/publishers?
Instead of spending my time focusing on these, getting irritated or making negative remarks, I much prefer to spend my time, and money, on any of the many titles launching daily elsewhere, who don't pull this crap.

Recently, this thread was on page 4 of the forums. It was a week or more since anyone posted on it.
And frequently, it's like that.
Then, a game is announced as exclusive, and there's pages of people complaining and complaining.
You know what: that's free publicity, and visibility, to these games. Don't give them what they want.

Why not support good practices instead?

We can walk and chew at the same time.

I've been spending a lot of time on Discord with indie developers over the past two months providing feedback for games they're working on. I still have time to give EGS the side-eye.

 

[ISee]

anyone that calls out indie devs for doing this are stupid as hell and should really get some perspective.
...
What i don't get and i fucking hate is why the hell are big publishers and big franchises going this stupid way. Like you don't need the guaranteed revenue, sooo why? For the better cut on EGS? Ok you can get that without exclusivity. I really don't get it. Can anyone offer any insight?

The upfront money epic is paying must be too good. I assume that big pubs are getting special deals for their big games like RDR2, Assassin's Creed: Open World Number 53, Boringlands 3. It's a different bargain position they are in.

In the end, the answer will always end with one last, final sentence: Because they need to maximize their profit.

Just making a healthy amount of profit ain't good enough. The important factor is the relation between "lost money because of lost sales" vs. "extra money because of deal & improved share". As long as they believe they can make an extra $100k they'll do it.

And even that can be understood, by changing your perspective: They also have employees to pay, they risk high amounts of money and one or two flops can destroy them and most importantly the CEO is obliged to make the most money possible for his shareholders.

For me it is simple: Publishers do not see me as a friend, independent developers do not see me as a friend. I don't have special feelings for one or the other either and in the end nothing is black & white. Indie devs are not automatically better than publishers or should have a free pass just because they are small. It is understandable that big & small are prioritizing more money and financial safety, that's in the nature of businesses and changing perspective will always reveal some kind of understandable logic.
Even taking Tim Sweeny's position will make his desire to be on top of the world comprehensible. But understanding something doesn't meant that I have to support, agree or like it.
It also doesn't reduce the amount of criticism that a business entity has to put up with, because it had a logical reason to do something that benefits it, but is a detriment to its costumers.

If you develop a game I don't like or do something I do not agree with (even if you have good reasons for yourself), I will not buy your game. Independent of your size & structure as a company, especially not on EGS.

They look after their interests, I look after mine and I think it is fair to criticize indie devs for taking epic deals.

 

[Alexandros]

The thing is, i can completely understand games that are indie or games that may not be able to get off their feet alone going for exclusivity. Like as an indie dev, sure you would love to be on steam but i think you would like it more to have guaranteed revenue. You don't know how people are going to react to your game and how much it's going to sell. So people may hate you, your game may get shit on for being exclusive, but at least you have the money to continue working your passion. And i'm all for that and anyone that calls out indie devs for doing this are stupid as hell and should really get some perspective.

Personally I am not in favor of turning this into an emotional issue. The publisher or developer of a game makes a business decision to give exclusive distribution rights to a specific service and the customer makes a business decision to buy the game or not. The problem is that some developers react emotionally to the customer's business decision. In other words, they reserve the right to make business decisions for themselves while they refuse to allow the same right to the customer.

 

[C-Dub]

Personally I am not in favor of turning this into an emotional issue. The publisher or developer of a game makes a business decision to give exclusive distribution rights to a specific service and the customer makes a business decision to buy the game or not. The problem is that some developers react emotionally to the customer's business decision. In other words, they reserve the right to make business decisions for themselves while they refuse to allow the same right to the customer.

Many customers also react emotionally to the developer's business decision, however. It does go two ways and both are unacceptable.

But in general, yes, I agree. I used to get annoyed, but I just see this as business now. And I have no time for indie developers acting like chums to their potential customers, doing something their customers don't like, and then acting like the hurt party when their game sells like garbage.

In short, business be business. Not gonna be a dick, but I won't let myself be manipulated by developers either. In the end they're entrepreneurs selling a product, and I feel lines have been crossed in the relationship between customer and developer in rather sinister and/or unhealthy ways, whether willingly or not.

 

[Alexandros]

Many customers also react emotionally to the developer's business decision, however. It does go two ways and both are unacceptable.

But in general, yes, I agree. I used to get annoyed, but I just see this as business now. And I have no time for indie developers acting like chums to their potential customers, doing something their customers don't like, and then acting like the hurt party when their game sells like garbage.

In short, business be business. Not gonna be a dick, but I won't let myself be manipulated by developers either. In the end they're entrepreneurs selling a product, and I feel lines have been crossed in the relationship between customer and developer in rather sinister and/or unhealthy ways, whether willingly or not.

I don't find an emotional response completely unacceptable, as long as we're using the same criteria for both parties, because some situations do include an emotional component. Kickstarter, for example. When asked to pay money for a product sight unseen you are being asked to make a decision mostly based on emotion and not logic (which would dictate that you wait until the product is released before paying for it). I kickstarted Phoenix Point (well, figged I guess?) and the developer's decision to sign up for Epic's moneyhat made me angry. I don't think I was wrong to feel angry because the developer essentially asked me for trust.

On an unrelated note, it's pretty funny seeing out pal Tim hyping up the playstation while shitting on PC because he has a deal with Sony. As a PC gamer it really fills me with confidence to shop at his store.

 

[fantomena]

Fuuuuuuuck. Im trying to not cave in on Old World, it's super cheap after coupon. Watched some videos from Quill18 and it looks super fun and good and seems to have a lot of content already for being in early access. It has already a lot it differs from Civ to become a rival.

Can't find any info on exclusivity time anywhere either.

 

[Ascheroth]

Can't find any info on exclusivity time anywhere either.

If in doubt, it's one year.

 

[prudis]

fantomena personalyl i would wait .... from what i heard from people that bought its currently very early and buggy.

 

[Wok]

Im trying to not cave in on Old World, it's super cheap after coupon

Easy: why would you purchase a game not finished?

in early access.

You said it.

 

[Trisolarian]

Easy: why would you purchase a game not finished?

This has nothing to do with EGS but I too have never understood this. You'll have your time with the game, if its good, before its even ready. Therefore robbing yourself of playing with the larger install base if its a multiplayer game and usually having a lesser experience single or multi.

 

[fantomena]

Depends on the game. Some games are very contentful and some pretty much are finished, but the devs keeps adding content to the game and features anyways, so they just call it early access. Hades, Factorio, Besiege, Bannerlord, Subnautica, Risk of Rain 2, TABS, Noita, TemTem are good examples of great early access games.

Also, price usually increases when the game leaves early access.

 

[Trisolarian]

Depends on the game. Some games are very contentfulfinished, but the devs keeps adding content to the game and features anyways, so they just call it early access. Hades, Factorio, Besiege, Bannerlord, Subnautica, Risk of Rain 2, TABS, Noita, TemTem are good examples of great early access games.

Also, price usually increases when the game leaves early access.

I can see your side of this, especially if they're upfront about what the game contains in its current state AND a significant discount is offered.

Personally, I have far too many games as it is. The "under construction" barrier is just too high for me to cross when I've got feature complete games with mature communities sitting on my HD.

 

[fantomena]

I can see your side of this, especially if they're upfront about what the game contains in its current state AND a significant discount is offered.

Personally, I have far too many games as it is. The "under construction" barrier is just too high for me to cross when I've got feature complete games with mature communities sitting on my HD.

Yeah, I always research how communicative the devs are before buying an ea game and how much content there already are in the game.

 

[Nabs]

 

[madjoki]

So Epic still can't inform devs about coupons? Or have games excluded from coupons..

 

[liezryou]

I wouldn't even buy the witcher 3 on EGS for $5. Even a single penny is too much to help support the exclusivity bullshit. But also who doesn't have the witcher 3 by now lol.