|OT| Valve's Steam Deck (OLED)- coming to Straya in Nov 2024

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
4,332
12,292
113
But I wanted to start with Persona 4 Golden
:negative-blob:
Looking at ProtonDB, there's some custom builds of Proton that do seem to run it. So worst case, if it's not fixed in the next couple of months, you'll just have to do some tweaking. Alternatively, you could just do a Windows dual boot if you don't want to mess with anything and still play Persona 4
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,368
12,372
113
Curious too see all the complains that game pass PC won't work on Deck when the machine is out.
Doubt it will be much.
Don't forget that the majority of the early buyers are most likely enthusiasts deeply within the Steam ecosystem. The "general public" is most likely end of Q2+ at the earliest, and by that time impressions from early buyers should make things clearer.
Also, technically game pass works on the Deck, but you need to install Windows.

Yeah judging from ProtonDb people are playing it via Proton-GE (Glorious Eggroll, a forked version that implements video fixes)
The video codec thing is really annoying indeed. Something that could be averted so easily, one would think. Hopefully the release of Steam Deck will lead to a change. But meanwhile, Wine 7 was released and among the release notes was better implementation of Windows Media stuff, so maybe that will have an impact on Proton soon, as well?
I thought Valve already had a solution for this? Re-encode the problematic videos server-side and distribute them to the Deck. Or was that something different, or does Persona have issues beyond that?
 

LEANIJA

MetaMember
May 5, 2019
3,254
7,951
113
Austria
Looking at ProtonDB, there's some custom builds of Proton that do seem to run it. So worst case, if it's not fixed in the next couple of months, you'll just have to do some tweaking. Alternatively, you could just do a Windows dual boot if you don't want to mess with anything and still play Persona 4
Yes, Proton-GE, which can be found here: Releases · GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom
Which can be easily installed using ProtonQtUp: ProtonUp-Qt

Proton-GE fixes some video problems, but not all. Windows Media Foundation continues to be a plague :p


I thought Valve already had a solution for this? Re-encode the problematic videos server-side and distribute them to the Deck. Or was that something different, or does Persona have issues beyond that?
Yes I thought so too but I dunno about their roadmap for that, nor how comprehensive it'll be. I read someone state somewhere that this happens on a game-by-game basis, whenever Steam detects a game having problems. No clue how accurate that is, however.
 

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
4,332
12,292
113
I thought Valve already had a solution for this? Re-encode the problematic videos server-side and distribute them to the Deck. Or was that something different, or does Persona have issues beyond that?
I don't think this can ever be a generic solution. Not all games have their videos neatly as easily accessible video files, a lot of games ship all the resources in a compressed, and perhaps even encoded format. Not much Valve can do there.
 

undu

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2019
206
516
93
I don't think this can ever be a generic solution. Not all games have their videos neatly as easily accessible video files, a lot of games ship all the resources in a compressed, and perhaps even encoded format. Not much Valve can do there.
The system is more sophisticated than that and have fallbacks in place to avoid the test pattern situation:

 

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
4,332
12,292
113
The system is more sophisticated than that and have fallbacks in place to avoid the test pattern situation:

This just explains how they find out about it. It does sound like Valve is ready to throw a large amount of (wo)manpower at this.
Would be interesting how they deal with cases where the videos aren't easily available, but as I said, inside some blob.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LEANIJA

undu

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2019
206
516
93
This just explains how they find out about it. It does sound like Valve is ready to throw a large amount of (wo)manpower at this.
Would be interesting how they deal with cases where the videos aren't easily available, but as I said, inside some blob.
Plagman also commented that the sauce is secret for the time being. So we're unlikely to know more. I wouldn't be surprised if they did some memory scanning during runtime to produce the uncompressed video streams and then reencode those
 

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
3,992
11,886
113
P4G is a big deal for me. Really disappointed by this news.

I’m now curious to see how Windows runs on Stem Deck. Glad I’m in the Q2 2022 queue now so I can see how people get on with the device before buying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LEANIJA and Li Kao

Vash63

Junior Member
Jan 26, 2019
10
24
3
Yeah judging from ProtonDb people are playing it via Proton-GE (Glorious Eggroll, a forked version that implements video fixes)
The video codec thing is really annoying indeed. Something that could be averted so easily, one would think. Hopefully the release of Steam Deck will lead to a change. But meanwhile, Wine 7 was released and among the release notes was better implementation of Windows Media stuff, so maybe that will have an impact on Proton soon, as well?
It would help if the problem was due to bugs in the actual MF playback, but the major issue in most cases is the codecs used. If they're using any of Microsoft's codecs, it's never going to work with stock Proton until Valve's transcoded duplicate videos are downloaded for the game.

I don't think this can ever be a generic solution. Not all games have their videos neatly as easily accessible video files, a lot of games ship all the resources in a compressed, and perhaps even encoded format. Not much Valve can do there.
This isn't a problem. Proton hooks the video data as it's being played, it doesn't matter where or how the files are stored.

Plagman also commented that the sauce is secret for the time being. So we're unlikely to know more. I wouldn't be surprised if they did some memory scanning during runtime to produce the uncompressed video streams and then reencode those
I think the code is here: Proton/media-converter at proton_6.3 · ValveSoftware/Proton

That's the client side anyway. It saves the data being played to disk which is then uploaded to Valve by Steam any time there is a cache miss (meaning the video fails to play and the user sees a test pattern).
 
  • Like
Reactions: LEANIJA

LEANIJA

MetaMember
May 5, 2019
3,254
7,951
113
Austria
P4G is a big deal for me. Really disappointed by this news.

I’m now curious to see how Windows runs on Stem Deck. Glad I’m in the Q2 2022 queue now so I can see how people get on with the device before buying.
I just tried Persona 4 – I run Manjaro + KDE, which is similar to what SteamOS will be. Installed ProtonUpQt, used that to install Proton-GE, and ran Persona 4 using that, and it ran just fine, videos playing and all. I dont think replicating those steps on Deck would take a lot of effort – it took me about a minute to setup.
 

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
4,332
12,292
113
It would help if the problem was due to bugs in the actual MF playback, but the major issue in most cases is the codecs used. If they're using any of Microsoft's codecs, it's never going to work with stock Proton until Valve's transcoded duplicate videos are downloaded for the game.



This isn't a problem. Proton hooks the video data as it's being played, it doesn't matter where or how the files are stored.



I think the code is here: Proton/media-converter at proton_6.3 · ValveSoftware/Proton

That's the client side anyway. It saves the data being played to disk which is then uploaded to Valve by Steam any time there is a cache miss (meaning the video fails to play and the user sees a test pattern).
Hmm, this sounds pretty neat. But from what I understand, this is probably not something you want or can do ad-hoc. From my limited experience with video editing, transcoding videos is crazy expensive a task. Running that on the Deck would be a sure-fire way to empty the battery in like half an hour, and the use would still need to wait like 10 minutes for every short video to render.
Relying on Valve's servers as a sort of media cache is neat idea. It's stilly that this is even necessary, but it's a neat solution, if it works out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LEANIJA

Vash63

Junior Member
Jan 26, 2019
10
24
3
Hmm, this sounds pretty neat. But from what I understand, this is probably not something you want or can do ad-hoc. From my limited experience with video editing, transcoding videos is crazy expensive a task. Running that on the Deck would be a sure-fire way to empty the battery in like half an hour, and the use would still need to wait like 10 minutes for every short video to render.
Relying on Valve's servers as a sort of media cache is neat idea. It's stilly that this is even necessary, but it's a neat solution, if it works out.
It's definitely absurd it's necessary, but that's what happens when developers go with patent-encumbered proprietary video players instead of just using VP9 or even a self contained solution like Bink. As someone else mentioned, P4 doesn't even work on actual Windows if you have the N-editions that don't include licensed codecs.

Also to be clear, this isn't designed to run locally, the transcoded videos are sent through the Fossilize system along with all of the Vulkan pipelines (for shader cache generation) that get processed by Steam prior to every run of the game. As a user it looks much like a standard game update in Steam, just the files are stored in your compatdata folders instead of the game's actual install directory.
 

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
3,992
11,886
113
I just tried Persona 4 – I run Manjaro + KDE, which is similar to what SteamOS will be. Installed ProtonUpQt, used that to install Proton-GE, and ran Persona 4 using that, and it ran just fine, videos playing and all. I dont think replicating those steps on Deck would take a lot of effort – it took me about a minute to setup.
It’s probably not much effort if you know what you’re doing. My Linux experience is zero and I don’t want to mess around with configuring or installing multiple versions of Proton for different games. I’m hoping Valve can get it all working perfectly by just pressing install, because I don’t want to do much more than that on an 800p display with no dedicated keyboard and mouse plugged in.
 

LEANIJA

MetaMember
May 5, 2019
3,254
7,951
113
Austria
It’s probably not much effort if you know what you’re doing. My Linux experience is zero and I don’t want to mess around with configuring or installing multiple versions of Proton for different games. I’m hoping Valve can get it all working perfectly by just pressing install, because I don’t want to do much more than that on an 800p display with no dedicated keyboard and mouse plugged in.
Tell you what, as soon as I get my hands on my SteamDeck (I'm in the Q1 bracket), I'll take a look at it, and if need be, write you a detailed walkthrough how to get it done easily. Because it was super easy just now, and I assume it shouldnt be difficult on Deck either :)

but errrm remind me should I forget :)


~


Includes an interesting bit:
Want to check out the newer Steam store Tablet Mode? It will actually show the Deck Verified symbols and on store pages there's a whole new Steam Deck compatibility section that you can bring up like so:

To do so it's easy enough in Firefox. Simply open a tab with the Steam store and hit CTRL+SHIFT+M. From there you need to add a new device by selecting the dropdown list that will usually say "Responsive" by default. From there hit "Edit list" and set a name of "Steam Deck" (or anything really), set user agent string to "Valve Steam Gamepad" and a resolution of "910 x 568". Then select it after saving, and refresh and you will get the Tablet Mode.
 
Last edited:

Minsc

Junior Member
Aug 7, 2021
37
68
18
I really don't understand why you'd use anything but h265 or VP9 etc, I guess royalties? Handbrake doesn't cost me anything, but I guess maybe it's not the same for a business related product? Everything under the sun can decode those things now and they're very efficient.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LEANIJA

Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
4,083
19,700
113
You can't use h.265 due to royalties, but you can use VP9. There's really no reason not to use it, it's royalty-free, effective in terms of compression, and even software decoding is easily fast enough on any even remotely modern PC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LEANIJA

jmga

Junior Member
Sep 20, 2018
36
127
33
Is it really that hard to implement Windows video API and codec? Looking at how far we have come in a few years it seems a problem that can be easily done in a few months, even less if Proton GE already does it, why can't Valve merge that feature from Proton GE?
 

Crayon

Schizofantastic
May 25, 2019
120
243
43
43
It’s probably not much effort if you know what you’re doing. My Linux experience is zero and I don’t want to mess around with configuring or installing multiple versions of Proton for different games. I’m hoping Valve can get it all working perfectly by just pressing install, because I don’t want to do much more than that on an 800p display with no dedicated keyboard and mouse plugged in.
Think about it once it comes out and you can see a little guide. It's a quick tweak and will fix this kind of issue for many games that otherwise run perfect!
 

LEANIJA

MetaMember
May 5, 2019
3,254
7,951
113
Austria
Valve has worked with Epic to make it even easier for devs to implement a Linux-ready EAC:


Our team has been working with Epic on Easy Anti-Cheat + Proton support over the last few months, and we're happy to announce that adding Steam Deck support to your existing EAC games is now a simple process, and doesn't require updating game binaries, SDK versions, or integration of new services. Alongside our BattlEye updates from last year, this means that the two largest anti-cheat services are now easily supported on Proton and Steam Deck.
 

TioChuck

More Yellow 🤷‍♂️
Dec 31, 2018
1,764
4,379
113
38

ExistentialThought

Coffee Lover ♥☕
Feb 29, 2020
1,657
5,071
113

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,368
12,372
113
That's a lot of tech speak. What does it mean in layman's?
It won't work automatically, but adding support manually is as easy as it's going to get.
Toggle a checkbox on the EAC management site -> download a file -> publish a new build that contains this file(no changes to anything else needed).
Works with all versions of EAC, no EOS integration required.

Super exciting news. Really feels like they're getting close to "everything is just going to work".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pommes and LEANIJA

LEANIJA

MetaMember
May 5, 2019
3,254
7,951
113
Austria
One has to wonder what did Tim negotiate from Valve for that?
Maybe each Deck will come with EGS client preinstalled now?
It's got no Linux client though

Epic is still also an engine and middleware supplier, not just a store. That side of them always seemed pretty open if im not mistaken
 
  • Like
Reactions: --------

undu

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2019
206
516
93
That's a lot of tech speak. What does it mean in layman's?
Epic has collaborated with Valve to make enabling anticheats (EAC) on windows games for the steam deck (and linux) really very easy for developers.

On top of that Valve is sending emails to developers when they are using anticheat with instructions to help / try to pressure them into enabling anticheats in steam deck.
 

Mor

Me llamo Willy y no hice la mili, pero vendo Chili
Sep 7, 2018
7,114
26,282
113
Ok, I think I will share the latest dev kits found on the net so we can see even more games that will be compatible.

Let's get this thing started:

This one you all saw, likely, GOW booting on Steam Deck thanks to Shu, this one sure is exciting.

And here you have a huge collection of indie games running on Deck too.

 

LEANIJA

MetaMember
May 5, 2019
3,254
7,951
113
Austria
The most exciting thing is that so many devs report that their games work perfectly out of the box.
Yep! but it honestly it does not surprise me much anymore–Proton is truely amazing and games running great out of the box is the norm for me playing stuff on Linux. Its already a bit odd when a game doesnt run (and its very seldomly not linked to either EAC or video codecs).
 

Crayon

Schizofantastic
May 25, 2019
120
243
43
43
I was really expecting the new big picture to roll out on the widows client at the same time as steamos but we haven't heard anything about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ExistentialThought

ExistentialThought

Coffee Lover ♥☕
Feb 29, 2020
1,657
5,071
113
I was really expecting the new big picture to roll out on the widows client at the same time as steamos but we haven't heard anything about it.
Yeah, I was really hoping some of the changes would start to appear in the Steam client or Valve would even release a beta of SteamOS, all ahead of the Deck launch.

Big picture is still the biggie for much needed changes, but I hope Valve also revamps the overlay. If these were revamped, there would only be a few minor things I still want to see on the Steam store such as changing how free DLC is redeemed, allowing things to be added to the cart without having to go to the cart (especially from the wishlist), and a custom DLC store for games you already own (allowing to view game content, soundtracks, and other items separately). Oh and allow me to have more than 100 curators/publishers/blocked things!
 
  • Like
Reactions: LEANIJA

Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
4,083
19,700
113
I was really expecting the new big picture to roll out on the widows client at the same time as steamos but we haven't heard anything about it.
I really wouldn't expect that. Even SteamOS for non-Deck devices might not roll out when Deck does IMHO. I'd expect these things to happen once work on the Deck software settles a bit, and that will probably take a few months.
 

Knurek

OG old coot
Oct 16, 2018
2,541
6,289
113
Durante BTW, does the SteamOS on Deck has a sound bite on achievement unlock, or is it the same as current ones?
 

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
3,992
11,886
113
I really wouldn't expect that. Even SteamOS for non-Deck devices might not roll out when Deck does IMHO. I'd expect these things to happen once work on the Deck software settles a bit, and that will probably take a few months.
If this is the case, that’d be a shame. As a comfy coucher, Steam’s BPM urgently needs an overhaul.

I will pretty much continue to use Playnite to launch my games until Valve drops the new BPM. Then I’ll be extensively testing it to see if I can get all the functionality I want out of it.
 

Ge0force

Excluding exclusives
Jan 12, 2019
4,143
14,400
113
Belgium
I've been thinking a lot about which games I want to (re)play first on Steam Deck, but I don't know where to start. I guess the compatibility list will help a lot next month.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LEANIJA

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
3,992
11,886
113
I've been thinking a lot about which games I want to (re)play first on Steam Deck, but I don't know where to start. I guess the compatibility list will help a lot next month.
Whenever I get mine, it’ll probably be some VNs. Or maybe a Yakuza game, compatibility willing.
 

Crayon

Schizofantastic
May 25, 2019
120
243
43
43
I really wouldn't expect that. Even SteamOS for non-Deck devices might not roll out when Deck does IMHO. I'd expect these things to happen once work on the Deck software settles a bit, and that will probably take a few months.
I had counted 100% that the distro would be released with the deck. I'm just now starting to doubt. How could they do this to me?!?!

I've been counting on the deck launch day being my SO3 launch day. I'll be so sad.