News Epic Games Store

Kyougar

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Nov 2, 2018
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I don't lose sleep over it. They shit the bed they made.
They got money from Sony
They got money from Kickstarter
They got money from Deep Silver
And basically made such a shitty or naive deal with Deep Silver that they won't get any money from Epic
They were awful with communicating with their fans and had the shittiest and slowest response to refunds from all the EGS games.

fuck em.


@ devs

They got money from Sony
They got money from Kickstarter
^^^^^^^^^ stop here! Make the game according to the budget laid out. Make the fucking best vertical slice you can make with the money and prove to your dedicated fans that you can make new games happen.
ESPECIALLY if your current game is part of a series Shenmue I to III is 40% of the story done, why not stop at 35% and make it pretty and free of outside publishers.
 

fantomena

Oh captain my captain.
Dec 17, 2018
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Unless I misremember, the author behind the books that the Metro games are based on, was not happy in some posts he did (don't remember if it was his Twitter or Facebook) about the EGS exclusivity.

If a game is not an indie game, everything points to the publisher forcing the exclusivity upon the developer studio. There was also this thing about Obisidan not knowing about EGS exclusivity for Outer Worlds until Private Division announced it themself. Obsidian was literally adding cheevos to Steam version of Outer Worlds the day it was announced as exclusive.

So when it comes to boycotting EGS exclusives, as it stands now, there is a big difference if it's an indie game or a not an indie game. Indie devs decide it themself and takes the money, non-indie studios are being forced into it by their publisher, sometimes they get money (Remedy got about half), sometimes they don't get money (if the Yu Suzuki/Deep silver thing is true).
 
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gabbo

MetaMember
Dec 22, 2018
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Unless I misremember, the author behind the books that the Metro games are based on, were not happy in some posts he did (don't remember if it was his Twitter of Facebook) about the EGS exclusivity.

If a game is not an indie game, everything points to the publisher forcing the exclusivity upon the developer studio. There was also this thing about Obisidan not knowing about EGS exclusivity for Outer Worlds until Private Division announced it themself. Obsidian was literally adding cheevos to Steam version of Outer Worlds the day it was announced as exclusive.

So when it comes to boycotting EGS exclusives, as it stands now, there is a big difference if it's an indie game or a not an indie game. Indie devs decide it themself and takes the money, non-indie studios are being forced into it by their publisher, sometimes they get money (Remeyd got about half), sometimes they don't get money (if the Yu Suzuki/Deep silver thing is true).
This is why I was never in favour of simply black listing a dev for choosing to get some EGS cash. Mind you, Shenmue and Yu Suzuki are outliers even within this scenario
 

Kyougar

No reviews, no Buy
Nov 2, 2018
366
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This is why I was never in favour of simply black listing a dev for choosing to get some EGS cash. Mind you, Shenmue and Yu Suzuki are outliers even within this scenario
I err on the side of caution.
They still profited from it, they still kept their mouth shut.
Silence or positive PR speak would only mean 2 things:
  • They are okay with this sort of thing, or
  • they are so non-independent that they can't speak their minds and are just the extension of the publishers, just a sweat-shop making the product.

I don't support it. And I am not beholden to my desires that I falter on my beliefs of the health of the PC gaming industry because of a shiny game that looks cool.
As long as they don't support the freedom of PC gaming and publically denounce EGS practices in the future, they are banned, even Obsidian.
That's my stance. I still boycott Microsoft Gaming Studios to this day (not Microsoft, as a whole, I worked MS Windows + Office support for 8 years :censored: ) Steam support is a start, but they have to prove that it isn't some short-lived PR move.
 
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Swenhir

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Apr 18, 2019
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This shit writes itself, man. And the top sellers list is updated weekly? What, is there like an actual person adding the sales up and sorting the list manually?
EGS is all about the little guys. Always. Though in this case I'd say they deserve each other. All of them. It's kind of representative of the wider atmosphere surrounding these moneyhats, come to think of it.
 
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gabbo

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Dec 22, 2018
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I err on the side of caution.
They still profited from it, they still kept their mouth shut.
Silence or positive PR speak would only mean 2 things:
  • They are okay with this sort of thing, or
  • they are so non-independent that they can't speak their minds and are just the extension of the publishers, just a sweat-shop making the product.

I don't support it. And I am not beholden to my desires that I falter on my beliefs of the health of the PC gaming industry because of a shiny game that looks cool.
As long as they don't support the freedom of PC gaming and publically denounce EGS practices in the future, they are banned, even Obsidian.
That's my stance. I still boycott Microsoft Gaming Studios to this day (not Microsoft, as a whole, I worked MS Windows + Office support for 8 years :censored: ) Steam support is a start, but they have to prove that it isn't some short-lived PR move.
I feel like this oversimplifies things like contracts and NDAs that devs likely have to sign with publishers. Sure, Obsidian can bad mouth whomever now that they're owned by one of the largest companies ever to exist, but I doubt the Obsidian of 2 years ago is looking to burn bridges when they were always on the verge of going under should a project collapse or get pulled. No publisher would work with a dev that goes on twitter and shits all over them for going egs. It would be completely unprofessional even if the dev doesn't agree with EGS deals.
 

Kyougar

No reviews, no Buy
Nov 2, 2018
366
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I feel like this oversimplifies things like contracts and NDAs that devs likely have to sign with publishers. Sure, Obsidian can bad mouth whomever now that they're owned by one of the largest companies ever to exist, but I doubt the Obsidian of 2 years ago is looking to burn bridges when they were always on the verge of going under should a project collapse or get pulled. No publisher would work with a dev that goes on twitter and shits all over them for going egs. It would be completely unprofessional even if the dev doesn't agree with EGS deals.
That is their decision. and my decision is to boycott them.
They decided that their working relationship is more important than their fans and the health of the pc gaming industry.

There are thousand other devs and games.

Pretty simple.
 

ISee

loves cookies
Mar 1, 2019
956
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No publisher would work with a dev that goes on twitter and shits all over them for going egs. It would be completely unprofessional even if the dev doesn't agree with EGS deals.
True and the case for many business relationships. Or rather all of them. Still, I sit quiet and do not openly attack a client if he dislikes something about the company that pays for the food of my children. Because he is mostly correct ,you don't want to further push him away and I actually enjoy my job + don't want to be fired.

So yes, it is professional to not burn bridges with your publisher. But it would also be professional to not attack and be aggressive or even insulting towards your costumers. Something that many developers are.

It's interesting how some studios and indy developers want to be understood and treated professionally, but lack any kind of professional behaviour themselves. I guess they misunderstand being professional with being praised for everything.


Edit:
Want an example of a developer demanding to be treated professionally, but isn't able to be a pro himself?


Not his fault. Best that can be done with a 35 people team. All cuts and design decisions were hard but correct. Nobody played the game, because some haven't therefore every low score is false.
It's everybody's else fault, just not his.
:rolleyes:
 
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gabbo

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Dec 22, 2018
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That is their decision. and my decision is to boycott them.
They decided that their working relationship is more important than their fans and the health of the pc gaming industry.

There are thousand other devs and games.

Pretty simple.
So devs shouldn't make business decisions that benefit them - eg allow them to keep being devs - such as signing with a publisher because that publisher might go and make deals that the dev has no further control over because you as a fan don't like it and don't think it's good for the industry?
You then boycott devs who, in this scenario had no say over the situation, but want to keep the industry healthy? I'm not saying you're wrong to boycott, you decide where to spend your money, but do you not see how the reasoning you're putting forward is a bit conflicted?

You want to boycott someone like the Ooblets devs or any of the multitude of others who turned and attacked their own community because they're trying to spin EGS as some kind of saviour and a net positive for the players, that make sense. It affects the devs directly, the people not only taking the cash, but spouting off at you.

But when it's a dev who hasn't been vocal at all and don't make the deal, it's their publisher that have been the ones spinning EGS, as has been the case with seemingly anyone associated with Annapurna, and Deep Silver (aside from the Shenmue case, in which everyone deserves derision but Sony I suppose), it's the devs who get the blacklist and not just the shitty publishers?

Again, you do you, but imo, you're placing the blame in the wrong spot.
 
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Kyougar

No reviews, no Buy
Nov 2, 2018
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So devs shouldn't make business decisions that benefit them - eg allow them to keep being devs - such as signing with a publisher because that publisher might go and make deals that the dev has no further control over because you as a fan don't like it and don't think it's good for the industry?
You then boycott devs who, in this scenario had no say over the situation, but want to keep the industry healthy? I'm not saying you're wrong to boycott, you decide where to spend your money, but do you not see how the reasoning you're putting forward is a bit conflicted?

You want to boycott someone like the Ooblets devs or any of the multitude of others who turned and attacked their own community because they're trying to spin EGS as some kind of saviour and a net positive for the players, that make sense. It affects the devs directly, the people not only taking the cash, but spouting off at you.

But when it's a dev who hasn't been vocal at all and don't make the deal, it's their publisher that have been the ones spinning EGS, as has been the case with seemingly anyone associated with Annapurna, and Deep Silver (aside from the Shenmue case, in which everyone deserves derision but Sony I suppose), it's the devs who get the blacklist and not just the shitty publishers?

Again, you do you, but imo, you're placing the blame in the wrong spot.
It is my decision. Being a fan has nothing to do with it. I can love their previous games, I can find their current games interesting, but my Love for PC Gaming, for the health of the Gaming Industry is far far far greater than my desire to play a handful of games.

They still profit from it, I am no charity, I don't have infinite money, there are other devs who make good and great games. If I have to decide between an EGS moneyhat dev getting my money and a dev who does no such shit, I will support the latter. And the dev probably needs it more than the dev who got moneyhatted. If they got fucked by the publisher, they should look for another. No-one is holding a gun to their head. And if they are comfortable with the current deal between them and the publisher, or don't want to rock the boat, then they are just the extended arm of the publisher who makes those deals.


If those devs want to make it up to their fans at a later date, they can do that, I will boycott them until then.
 

gabbo

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Dec 22, 2018
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It is my decision. Being a fan has nothing to do with it. I can love their previous games, I can find their current games interesting, but my Love for PC Gaming, for the health of the Gaming Industry is far far far greater than my desire to play a handful of games.

They still profit from it, I am no charity, I don't have infinite money, there are other devs who make good and great games. If I have to decide between an EGS moneyhat dev getting my money and a dev who does no such shit, I will support the latter. And the dev probably needs it more than the dev who got moneyhatted. If they got fucked by the publisher, they should look for another. No-one is holding a gun to their head. And if they are comfortable with the current deal between them and the publisher, or don't want to rock the boat, then they are just the extended arm of the publisher who makes those deals.


If those devs want to make it up to their fans at a later date, they can do that, I will boycott them until then.
It's all good, we can both hate EGS together :D
 
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fantomena

Oh captain my captain.
Dec 17, 2018
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Do you have a link that says that Obision got nothing from Deep Silver?
No. My point is that there is a difference between EGS exclusives when it comes to indie games and non-indie games. Regardless of the studios position and if they get money or not from Epic, a studio like Obsidian has no say in wherever they want their game to be EGS exclusive or not, it's up to the publisher.

Remedy profited about 4-5 mill on the EGS deal, but they were not the one accepting the deal, 505 was. Yu Suzuki is apparently not getting any money from the EGS deal.

You are of course free to boycott any EGS exclusive you want and I do understand why you do it.
 
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EdwardTivrusky

See You Hyper-Toxic Computer Cowboy
Dec 8, 2018
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I read it may be delayed on Gamepass etc because they put it in for certification late so it may be a few more days.
 
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sk2k

Under my name?
Dec 8, 2018
200
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Merkel's realm

Another game i want. Another game that will die in the Epic store. :(
 
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Javetus

Junior Member
Sep 17, 2019
65
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Another game i want. Another game that will die in the Epic store. :(
Aaaaand straight to the blacklist.
 

Phoenix RISING

A phoenix always RISES!
Apr 23, 2019
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Ann Arbor, MI
www.geeksundergrace.com
Unless I misremember, the author behind the books that the Metro games are based on, was not happy in some posts he did (don't remember if it was his Twitter or Facebook) about the EGS exclusivity.

If a game is not an indie game, everything points to the publisher forcing the exclusivity upon the developer studio. There was also this thing about Obisidan not knowing about EGS exclusivity for Outer Worlds until Private Division announced it themself. Obsidian was literally adding cheevos to Steam version of Outer Worlds the day it was announced as exclusive.

So when it comes to boycotting EGS exclusives, as it stands now, there is a big difference if it's an indie game or a not an indie game. Indie devs decide it themself and takes the money, non-indie studios are being forced into it by their publisher, sometimes they get money (Remedy got about half), sometimes they don't get money (if the Yu Suzuki/Deep silver thing is true).


ThE cOmPeTiTiOn EgS bRiNgS iS gOoD fOr DeVeLoPeRs ThEy SaId
Hey, Phoenix Point is out today.

No other game has gone from 'OMG i will buy this day one' to 'Maybe ill get this once its around a fiver, if i've got nothing else to play'.
I got a review copy.

No bites from my team, so I might end up covering it.
 
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C-Dub

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Real talk here: I doubt Epic doing what Epic does has even changed how Valve communicates what they do, let alone change what they're actually working on.

The only guys I can even think that EGS may have even made take notice of them is anyone working on Business Development at Steam, but even then they probably have their plan and it seems to be working well - they just got EA back on board, and those conversations take a long time.

The only people with influence who have reacted to EGS are the press. They have given them far more prominence than they deserve, and talk about them in the same breath as more established and feature-full services like GOG and Steam.
 

ISee

loves cookies
Mar 1, 2019
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Epic has not changed one single thing about Valve and that's actually great. Valve is not even responding or acknowledging any of the Tim Twitter shenanigans. I wish I would be able to hold my cool that good, when constantly provoked.
Let's also be fair about business development at valve. It does not exist. They just do stuff and do what they think is healthy for PC gaming, because PC gaming prints money for them. They also understand that piracy was the biggest thread to PC gaming and that it was about to destroy it.
They established a healthy PC client, with fair prices, mod support, online family sharing, a voice chat options, cloud saves, achievements and a fair return policy that makes preorders not a really problem. They tried to establish a console like PC distribution with Steam Boxes, unified controller support in their eco system and tried to bring out a new one to improve keyboard less gaming. They are invested in Linux support (because let's be real about what company really holds the reigns in PC gaming: Microsoft) and are investing in new, exciting technologies like VR.

I sound like a total fanboy, and maybe I am (despite buying games on GOG, whenever possible) and I understand that they are a company and only invested in PC gaming because it is how they earn money. But it is really hard to not like Valve/Steam as a PC gamer, imagine EA would own Steam and how bad things would look like then. I am very happy Valve never changed, because for some time I was very worried that they might go and start to buy games themselves. They didn't.

I also leave this (well known) email from Gabe here. It is about Oculus exclusivity.

We are happy to offset that (risk) giving developers development funds. Essentially pre-paid Steam revenue [1:1 how Epic pays for exclusivity]. However there are no strings attached to those funds - they can develop for the Rift or PSVR or whatever the developer thinks are the right target VR systems. Our hope is tat by providing funding that developers will be less likely to take on deals that rquire them to be exclusive.

Make sense?
Yes, that makes a lot of sense to me!