Community MetaSteam | March 2019 - The Core Values of One-Handed Fighting

Sampson

boop
Dec 11, 2018
603
1,451
93
I think what’s really important about this Phoenix Point situation is why they got somewhere around $2 million.

It’s not that Epic just paid money for the game. That’s bad enough, but more or less what they’ve done with other devs. No, in the case of this crowdfunded project, the devs sold you to Epic. They got paid to sell tens of thousands of users to Epic.

That’s what’s really disturbing here.
 

TheGreenArrow

MetaMember
Nov 20, 2018
143
235
43
I think what’s really important about this Phoenix Point situation is why they got somewhere around $2 million.

It’s not that Epic just paid money for the game. That’s bad enough, but more or less what they’ve done with other devs. No, in the case of this crowdfunded project, the devs sold you to Epic. They got paid to sell tens of thousands of users to Epic.

That’s what’s really disturbing here.
Oh shitttt. Didn’t even think about that.
 

uraizen

Competitively anti-competitive
Oct 7, 2018
179
307
63
If shenmue 3 goes epic, yeah I'm pirating it! Ah hoy me hearties!

But I'm too lazy so I wouldn't probably do it if it was too much effort haha. Never going back to mounting virtual CDs and shit.
I mean... did you contribute to their campaign? If so... I see nothing wrong morally with obtaining the copy you want if it's unobtainable in the method you were promised.
 

Sampson

boop
Dec 11, 2018
603
1,451
93
Oh shitttt. Didn’t even think about that.
Yeah it’s truly bizarre.

In other situations, if you were interested in a game that was previously visible, you had to get it on another storefront. Bad, but theoretically, you didn’t have any skin in the game beyond personal interest.

And slightly different, but I’m sure most of us have backed games that ended up having a port dropped. Typically because of technical difficulties (e.g. promised console turned out too weak), or perhaps because money for the port-job ran out. That’s at least a genuine problem that we can sympathize with.

In this case though, Epic isn’t just getting a game that has mere interest in it. They’re getting a game with thousands of verifiable investors and preorders, and therefore getting users who are forced to play the game on their platform if they want to play the game they funded months prior.

It’s a new low for both Epic and especially for the devs involved.
 

FunktionJCB

Something Wicked This Way Comes
Oct 10, 2018
919
1,991
93
In this case though, Epic isn’t just getting a game that has mere interest in it. They’re getting a game with thousands of verifiable investors and preorders, and therefore getting users who are forced to play the game on their platform if they want to play the game they funded months prior.

It’s a new low for both Epic and the devs involved.
As a backer, I should add that they have been distributing backer builds through their own download client, yet they are forcing everyone, starting with the next version, to redeem their keys on Epic, in order to get future backer builds, and then the final game.
A game, I should add, that is going to be DRM-free. So, there is absolutely no reason, outside of trying to force unwilling clients to the Epic store, that they aren't offering a download directly from them, not tied to any client.

But you know what, screw them.
I'm tired of mentioning their shitty practices. All this is getting them is free publicity.
Thankfully, there are plenty of upcoming games to keep me interested, from developers who are yet to treat me poorly as a customer, and that I'll gladly support with a purchase.
 

TheGreenArrow

MetaMember
Nov 20, 2018
143
235
43
Not to be a TRAITOR, but if this means backers are going to be selling their epic keys for stupid cheap, maybe I’ll grab one. At least epic won’t get my money.
 
Reactions: lashman

Sampson

boop
Dec 11, 2018
603
1,451
93
I mean, the most disturbing thing is that the ones that went to Epic and asked were the devs themelves. After a crowdfunding campaign. It's the worst, really. This is even worse than moneyhatting devs, it's betraying every single backer they've got.
I think that goes hand in hand with what I was saying actually and highlights how terrible this all is.

They approached Epic to literally sell their fans. They didn’t try to secure the money and the ability to send out Steam/GOG keys, they were content to just sell the whole kit and caboodle.
 

QFNS

Plays too many card games
Nov 18, 2018
61
122
33
I just want to point out that a lot of the moneyhatting going on here is not permanent exclusivity. As fast as I can see most of the deals are for 1 year. Still a shit deal for us but it just means I wait. I do this all the time whenever Square Enix releases shit on consoles "exclusively". FFX/X-2, FFXII Zodiac Age, etc.

We'll see what the state of these games is in a year, but I'm perfectly content to wait on everything that has been revealed this far. XCOM was arguably a much better game game 1 year in than at release, I'm sure PP will be too.

Stuff like the Division 2 is tougher since it will probably be close to dead playerbase wise in a year, but I don't care about that one personally. . That's the stuff I really feel bad about though.
 
Reactions: lashman

FunktionJCB

Something Wicked This Way Comes
Oct 10, 2018
919
1,991
93
Is anyone planning to pick up Generation Zero?



I'm very torn about this one. I'm a sucker for 80's themed, synth-scored content, so this should be right up my alley.
But, I get the impression that this is a very co-op heavy game, despite the developers mentioning that yes, there is a story, and that it's perfectly playable and fun in single player.
I wish some of the footage was more directed to single-player gamers, to get a feel of that portion of the game.
 
Reactions: lashman

derExperte

MetaMember
Dec 9, 2018
74
243
33
I preordered Generation Zero but might cancel last second if reviews are too bad and yeah, if the game is too focused on co-op.

What I have higher hopes for is ONE PIECE World Seeker tomorrow, Game Informer had some new footage and it could be this month's Crackdown 3. Which is a compliment. Give me an open world, great traversal options and I'm in.

Not to be a TRAITOR, but if this means backers are going to be selling their epic keys for stupid cheap, maybe I’ll grab one. At least epic won’t get my money.
They'll get your soul though.

Thankfully, there are plenty of upcoming games to keep me interested, from developers who are yet to treat me poorly as a customer, and that I'll gladly support with a purchase.
Indeed, yet. Going forward my trust will be very hard to come by, seen too many devs I used to admire become nonsense-talking dipshits (Rami/Vlambeer hurts the most).
 
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Coco

LOOΠΔ Resident Stan
Mar 12, 2019
18
57
13
I think that goes hand in hand with what I was saying actually and highlights how terrible this all is.

They approached Epic to literally sell their fans. They didn’t try to secure the money and the ability to send out Steam/GOG keys, they were content to just sell the whole kit and caboodle.


And this is the worst part. Saying that even if they refund everything, they'd make money and that they don't care at all.
 

FunktionJCB

Something Wicked This Way Comes
Oct 10, 2018
919
1,991
93
Indeed, yet. Going forward my trust will be very hard to come by, seen too many devs I used to admire become nonsense-talking dipshits (Rami/Vlambeer hurts the most).
I always found Rami to be a dipshit, and I ended up blocking his content from appearing on my twitter feed because it was getting on my nerves.
He's very pro-developer, but for him pro-developer weirdly equates being anti-consumer, you know, anti the people who actually buy games. His ridiculous justifications for excessive lootboxes and microtransactions, and how gamers are entitled and whatnot, was quite something.

As for the "yet" part, indeed things change. And my support changes with them. :)
But, since those teams I mentioned as worthy of support are usually small developers who are doing, for example, point and click games, you know games and genres usually unattractive for these big deals, I think I don't have to worry too much about most of them.
 
Reactions: lashman and Sampson

prudis

TrailerBot
Sep 19, 2018
657
1,552
93
The Kingdom of Bohemia
twitter.com
So went through some recent less known releases that happened since start of March: (quite a bunch of interesting ones)


v1.0 Launch from EA

Moss Destruction is a tough-as-a-nail rogue-lite, twin stick action shooter, with a well-balanced ranking up system and sweet, hand-crafted visuals.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
v1.0 Launch from EA


Legendary Eleven is an epic arcade football game inspired by the golden age of football spanning the 70's to the 90's. Choose from 36 teams full of glorious haircuts, moustaches and legends in short shorts. Lead them to glory and win the World Cup!

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Release

Catering to solo and multiplayer puzzle fans, Treasure Stack features a wide variety of modes, whether you're testing your skills in Challenge Mode, partying up with friends in 4-Player Local Versus, or taking on the rest of the world in Online Versus.

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Release

An ancient entity seeking help, a Witch, an unnamed soul and a Twisted Temple. A dark tale about inner discoveries set in a distorted and perverted world.

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v1.00 Launch from EA

Quest Hunter is an isometric action-RPG where your choice drives the story. Find tons of treasures and secrets, solve puzzles, equip your character, level up your skills and finish off enemy bosses.

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v1.00 Launch from EA

Objects in Space is a retro space game centred on 2D point-and-click stealth action in a massive open world. Players have their own customisable ships and can meet people, become a trader, bounty hunter, explorer, scavenger or all of them at once.

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Release

It was another night shift at your job in a warehouse, when a madman with a box on his head, took control over the complex. Now you are under his control, to get out of here you have to solve his wicked riddles and smash through his weird cardboard structures by using anything you find in the boxes.

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Release

n this epic quest you must reach the end by going through black holes. Try to avoid all the traps, solve all the mind-bending puzzles and escape form the powerful bosses. OH... And one more thing .... secrets are everywhere.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Release

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Release

Learn forbidden spells. Outwit the Cult. Resist the corruption of magic. As Heretic Operative, secret mage sworn to oppose the Cult, you must harness the arcane without becoming lost in its power. A unique narrative strategy-RPG inspired by classic boardgames like Arkham Horror and Pandemic.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Release

Trapped in a world of fantasy, a scared but resilient girl is challenged to confront the fragility of life, and face her ultimate fears before it's too late.

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Release

The award-winning adaptation of Vlaada Chvátil’s award-winning board game. Already includes the ALIEN TECHNOLOGIES expansion!
Build space ships, dodge meteors, and fight off bad guys, all in a quest to be the trucker with the most cosmic credits at the end of the game.

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Release
A self-proclaimed Savior must travel through ancestral locations guiding his worshipers to reach the promised land. The numerous dangers that these locations present will make it very difficult for all that worshipers to survive.
 

FunktionJCB

Something Wicked This Way Comes
Oct 10, 2018
919
1,991
93
So went through some recent less known releases that happened since start of March: (quite a bunch of interesting ones)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
v1.00 Launch from EA

Objects in Space is a retro space game centred on 2D point-and-click stealth action in a massive open world. Players have their own customisable ships and can meet people, become a trader, bounty hunter, explorer, scavenger or all of them at once.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Objects in Space is going to be one of my next purchases.
The game really caught my eye, and after I finish a couple of games I have on my plate, I'll surely play it.

EDIT: Sorry for the shameless request, but by any chance is anyone that hasn't subscribed to the humble monthly in the past considering subscribing?
I have a referral link (that I never used) that would net me about half of the cost of Objects in Space, so if anyone is planning to do so, in order to get this month's games, please consider using my link.
I would even throw in a key to a game from a previous bundle, to sweeten the deal. ;)
 
Reactions: lashman

Coco

LOOΠΔ Resident Stan
Mar 12, 2019
18
57
13
Indeed, yet. Going forward my trust will be very hard to come by, seen too many devs I used to admire become nonsense-talking dipshits (Rami/Vlambeer hurts the most).
What happened with Vlambeer? I loved their games and I'm out of the loop there.
 
Reactions: lashman

Amzin

No one beats me 17 times in a row!
Dec 5, 2018
62
126
33
Hyper Light Drifter devs & Annapurna Interactive announce Solar Ash Kingdom for PC (yeah you see it coming).

Freaking Annapurna, first Outer Wilrds (and Ashen, and others, but I was really excited for Outer Wilds), now this..
This one really hurts. I was interested in a bunch of exclusives so far but could just shrug and ignore them. But HLD was my GOTY and remains one of my favorite games of all time cough avatarquote cough and I'm incredibly bummed I won't be able to support their next game without violating my moral code so... I won't. I will email them to let them know though, maybe coming from an early KS backer of HLD it will have a minor impact but it's ultimately the publisher calling the final shots.

Edit: I'm even more bummed about this than I thought initially. They haven't technically said it's exclusive but considering the publisher I can't imagine it isn't. And while in the grand scheme of the world, Epic's fuckery is not the biggest hill to die on, I'm just so tired of fighting companies trying to fuck over people day in and day out. It's not that hard to not be evil, it really isn't. It doesn't take a genius to know that modeling your business after the most hated companies on the planet is maybe not the path to go down. It's like every week another massively powerful entity of greed just throws another punch and enough people shrug because it doesn't directly impact them yet.
 
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Alextended

Segata's Disciple
Jan 28, 2019
303
589
93
gog.com had exclusive oldies often back in the day (Wing Commander series for one example - oops, wrong, those were added to Origin since they're EA games, anyway, there are probably some games that you can only get on gog digitally still). But since they were the only ones to care about bringing them back, yeah. I don't think Halo being on Steam is any kind of deal (it will be on Windows Store too, right?). Just that it makes sense to release it on the most used platform, same for the previous Microsoft Studios games that were on Windows store but got Steam versions (Quantum Break and other stuff). It's weird for Microsoft to see sense but yeah, they seem to do so occasionally. Just replying to the image, I know you don't necessarily think that implication :p
 
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Reactions: lashman

Derrick01

MetaMember
Oct 6, 2018
97
281
53
I'm pretty baffled by how many people seem excited by Google entering the industry. Like...what do they think Google can bring that's a positive? Streaming? Oh yeah we all know how amazing game streaming is. Buying exclusives up or worse, entire studios? That'll be fantastic for everyone for sure especially when Google gives up on this initiative in 3 years.

It's like people think Google's going to enter and become another Sony putting out single player only goty caliber games with no MTX or shit like that. That's...not what Google does. They (and apple and amazon too) are so horrid when it comes to caring about gaming they make MS look like Sony and Nintendo. Nothing but bad things are going to happen when they get involved.
 

† Echo †

漂う夢のまにまに
Nov 1, 2018
365
785
93
Mt. Whatever
quick question for madjoki

Your website tracks banned games from Steam, I've been refreshing it every couple of days lately to see what the heck Valve is up to... Today some games were banned such as: My Girlfriend (Dharker Studio, VN set in college dorms), Moe Reversi, and Domination Quest.

Now I don't care about these games, but I am curious how come your website only seems to track certain banned games and not all of them? Am I missing a filter option somewhere? o_O
============

Slightly different point, it's weird that Valve would ban a VN set in college. Studio Dharker VN's are shit, but they have a long history on Steam and they aren't trolling or illegal. So I'm confused. It wasn't even an adult game...
 
Reactions: lashman

Sampson

boop
Dec 11, 2018
603
1,451
93
I'm pretty baffled by how many people seem excited by Google entering the industry. Like...what do they think Google can bring that's a positive? Streaming? Oh yeah we all know how amazing game streaming is. Buying exclusives up or worse, entire studios? That'll be fantastic for everyone for sure especially when Google gives up on this initiative in 3 years.

It's like people think Google's going to enter and become another Sony putting out single player only goty caliber games with no MTX or shit like that. That's...not what Google does. They (and apple and amazon too) are so horrid when it comes to caring about gaming they make MS look like Sony and Nintendo. Nothing but bad things are going to happen when they get involved.
Like you say, it's pretty weird to see people "excited" over the news:
  • Google is easily in the Top 3 for "most intrusive" and "surveillance state collaborating" modern tech companies. They were literally willingly working on a search engine for the PRC to provide censored results to their citizens just a few months ago, and reportedly may still be doing so.
  • Any completely new gaming initiative is almost certain to be centered around GaaS, which is probably a big fat fart in terms of interestingness.
  • Like you alluded too, Google is notorious for dropping initiatives that don't work, so who knows how serious this is. Just today they shut down Allo, and reportedly told their laptop/tablet division to look for new jobs within the company. And they recently shut down Google Spotlight Stories (which was a really interesting 360/VR storytelling initiative). And they cut one of their mail apps (Inbox) last year. And probably a million other things because they're terrible at sticking with things.
  • Streaming tech, unless they've created some massive breakthrough is still probably going to be inaccessible to a significant (if not majority) of the population.
I dunno, maybe I'm unreasonable, but I hate Google with a passion. If I could easily move all of the stuff I have on Google platforms (Mail, Docs, YouTube, etc), I would do it in a heartbeat and never look back.
 

Coco

LOOΠΔ Resident Stan
Mar 12, 2019
18
57
13
I'm not excited, really. It's more of a curiosity, about what they can do and how fast they drop support. Streaming is gonna end up being the future of videogames, whether we like it or not, so I'm really curious to see how well they work on an industry that it's not really to go through it, yet.

That's considering they do a streaming console and not just a normal console box with mobile components. So yeah, I remain curious but cautious. Google has been pretty disappointing for a long time.
 
Reactions: lashman and Sampson

Amzin

No one beats me 17 times in a row!
Dec 5, 2018
62
126
33
Like you say, it's pretty weird to see people "excited" over the news:
  • Google is easily in the Top 3 for "most intrusive" and "surveillance state collaborating" modern tech companies. They were literally willingly working on a search engine for the PRC to provide censored results to their citizens just a few months ago, and reportedly may still be doing so.
  • Any completely new gaming initiative is almost certain to be centered around GaaS, which is probably a big fat fart in terms of interestingness.
  • Like you alluded too, Google is notorious for dropping initiatives that don't work, so who knows how serious this is. Just today they shut down Allo, and reportedly told their laptop/tablet division to look for new jobs within the company. And they recently shut down Google Spotlight Stories (which was a really interesting 360/VR storytelling initiative). And they cut one of their mail apps (Inbox) last year. And probably a million other things because they're terrible at sticking with things.
  • Streaming tech, unless they've created some massive breakthrough is still probably going to be inaccessible to a significant (if not majority) of the population.
I dunno, maybe I'm unreasonable, but I hate Google with a passion. If I could easily move all of the stuff I have on Google platforms (Mail, Docs, YouTube, etc), I would do it in a heartbeat and never look back.
Google is not a great company, at all. And yea they've canned and are closing down more apps that still see fair amount of use (measured by other companies, anyway).

I would say, in regards to the streaming tech, it's completely out of their hands. No breakthrough can enable streaming of 1080p 30-60fps games with minimal input lag in the majority of households because shitty internet infrastructure due to other shitty big companies is the bottleneck. I have Google fiber so theoretically it's possible but most major cities don't even have that. I mean, it is technologically possible to do it right now, people have, it's just not something I can imagine building a platform on since so, so much of it is outside your control entirely.

Regardless, I agree with the general points - I see absolutely no value in investing in a Google console or gaming service. Even the Switch hasn't warranted a purchase yet from me and it's one of the better unique offerings in our time.
 

Sampson

boop
Dec 11, 2018
603
1,451
93
I think I'm still residually salty over them not making Google Wave into the big thing they said it would be (admittedly most of the features got integrated into other suites, both their own and those made by others).

I loved that damn thing.
 
Reactions: lashman

QFNS

Plays too many card games
Nov 18, 2018
61
122
33
My current hatred of Google stems from them killing the only good mail app (Inbox) without integrating its best features into GMail.

Seriously, Inbox changed my life (at least my email life). The bundles are GLORIOUS. GMail is an unusable mess without them.
 
Reactions: lashman

Nabs

Hyper-Toxic, Pro-Consumer
Oct 23, 2018
69
143
33
I just noticed that The King's Bird is up on Twitch Prime. I thought it looked pretty cool, but not 20 dollars cool. Someone check it out.

They also have Snakepass, which I liked.

At least AmazonTony hasn't turned evil yet.
 
Reactions: lashman

Deques

Nope Nope
Oct 19, 2018
692
1,356
93
The North
www.seikens.com
I did an oversimplified calculation to see how many units Phoenix Point need to sell before Epic can start earning money. Let's say that Epic did pay 2 million dollars to have exclusivity, then the game need to be sell around 420k copies until they start earning money.

According to SteamSpy, Julian Gollop's previous game: Chaos Reborn, only sold between 50k-100k copies. The game also has been bundled at least one time.

Personally I don't think Epic ever will earn back the money the paid for the exclusivity within a year. But they still got Fortnite, which brings infinite money to them, right?

 
OP
lashman

lashman

Dead & Forgotten
Sep 5, 2018
4,833
5,245
113
I just imagine Sergey sitting in a basement somewhere screaming about how he hates us as he signs exclusivity deals.
i like to imagine Sergey sitting somewhere in the epic office going like:


(just replace "international communism" with "steam users" :p)

As mentioned above, Epic has bought users.
and their data ... they couldn't care less if those moneyhatted games make them money ... they want users, not sales from those exclusives
 

Sampson

boop
Dec 11, 2018
603
1,451
93
I did an oversimplified calculation to see how many units Phoenix Point need to sell before Epic can start earning money. Let's say that Epic did pay 2 million dollars to have exclusivity, then the game need to be sell around 420k copies until they start earning money.

According to SteamSpy, Julian Gollop's previous game: Chaos Reborn, only sold between 50k-100k copies. The game also has been bundled at least one time.

Personally I don't think Epic ever will earn back the money the paid for the exclusivity within a year. But they still got Fortnite, which brings infinite money to them, right?

I think Chaos Reborn is a way less appealing title than Phoenix Point, which is basically banking on the revitalization of X-COM and the flourishing of games with XCOM inspired elements (Mutant Year Zero, Xenonauts, etc).

That aside, to figure out the actual cost, we'd need to know what Epic projects the average cost of acquiring a user. In general, acquiring users for any storefront isn't that cheap. Then considering they're getting a bunch of "users" that they just bought with this deal, we'd also need to know what their internal projections are for how many of those "acquired" users will then become regular patrons of the store. If they can turn a significant number of Phoenix Point backers into MAUs, they've won.

There's really no way for us to know any of that at this point unfortunately, and we're pretty much left hoping it doesn't pay off.
 

Ge0force

Collector of hidden agendas
Jan 12, 2019
206
464
63
Belgium
I think what’s really important about this Phoenix Point situation is why they got somewhere around $2 million.

It’s not that Epic just paid money for the game. That’s bad enough, but more or less what they’ve done with other devs. No, in the case of this crowdfunded project, the devs sold you to Epic. They got paid to sell tens of thousands of users to Epic.

That’s what’s really disturbing here.
Haven't thought about it like that. This makes it even more disgusting.

GDC and E3 are gonna be a bloodbath for pc gamers refusing to use Epic's store :(