Discussion The insane economics of a Dyson Civ and how 99% of Sci-Fi Universes get the scale of what would be possible wrong.

Kyougar

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Nov 2, 2018
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Dyson Swarms (or the old improbable Dyson Sphere/Rings) were always an interesting concept for me. Only after watching Isaac Arthur's in-depth videos on it (and some of Kurzgesagts videos on space colonization and mining), could I comprehend how insane the whole economic aspect of it all is.
And it is possible to start building it, right now, with current technology. Mind you, it would be slow and immensely expensive to set it up in the first place. But when you have the first pieces ready, the whole thing will grow exponentially after that and you would only be hampered by the manpower aspect (or the need for expanding your O'Neill Cylinders and power generation)

After a few hundred years, the Solar System could support trillions of people who could live in billions of O'Neill Cylinders that could house a few thousand to millions of people comfortably and would have no energy or food shortage (if the logistics are working).
Ther would be billions of ships from little shuttles to full dreadnaught military ships. Just a shuttle service between the single O'Neill Cylinders would result in Billions of little shuttles scurrying between them, even if every Cylinder only had 1 shuttle.

And even with that scale, if you look at the Sun from space further out, the Sun would still be shining brightly and only a few percent of light level loss.

All-in-all, the Solar System could support thousands upon thousands of Trillions (we are already a few places after Trillions, Quadrillions, etc.) on Biomass alone.

How much living matter (biomass) can the Solar System support? The most readily accessed resources are carbonaceous asteroids and maybe comets. We therefore measured the amounts of organic carbon and of mineral nutrients in asteroid/meteorite materials, in soluble bioavailable forms and as total contents. We also know how much of elements are needed to form biomass, and how much of such resource materials are present in the Solar System. asteroids and in comets. From these data we can estimate the amounts of biomass and populations that can be sustained by space resources.​

Based on the limiting elements N and P, water-extractable materials in one kilogram of carbonaceous asteroid soils can support 0.6 grams of biomass. On this basis, bioavailabe extractable materials in the 1e22 kg carbonaceous asteroids can support 6e18 (six million trillion) kilograms of biomass, six thousand times more than the biomass presently on the Earth, that supports six billion humans. The extractable asteroid materials could then support on the order of 40e12 (40 trillion) humans. Using the total elemental contents of the carbonaceous asteroids could support a biomass and population a hundred times larger yet, 4,000 trillion humans, comparable to the population of a million Earths. Materials in the comets could support biomass and populations even ten thousand times larger, comparable to ten billion Earths, in our Solar System alone. Billions of similar solar systems throughout the galaxy can support amounts of life and human populations billions of times still larger.​
Plastering the sun with the most rudimentary solar-sails with current technology would only take 1% of the mass of Merkur.



And that's the problem with Sci-Fi Universes that depict a vast civilization but only have a few hundred to thousands of military ships. Even with FTL technology, A Dyson Swarm would be inevitable, even if you only use it for energy generation. You could have your special Unobtainium or Gold-pressed Latinum and Dilithium crystals as an excuse for scarcity. In the end, a few billion ships with massive weaponized energy storage will trump any Fleet of a few hundred ships with coated unobtainium plating and a few Phasers which are powered by Dilithium Crystals.
You could argue that there is a very hard-to-obtain mineral that makes FTL possible. But that only impacts out of System engagements. A Solar system would be impregnable to any outside force that is resource strained for their FTL drives. They would be faced with trillions of solar-powered autonomous weapon systems alone. Not to speak the billions of normal ships.
 

ISee

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Mar 1, 2019
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Okay interesting topic. I need some time to read watch the information first, as I'm only familiar with the concept of dyson spheres from the kardaschow scale.
And some Sci Fi books.
 
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