|OT| The PC Hardware Thread -- Buy/Upgrade/Ask/Answer

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πŸ‘€ I see you
Sep 19, 2018
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Demand for these new cards seems crazy. How many people are looking to upgrade? Is it in the Hundred thousands? Millions? I have no idea what size the market is for these new cards. Steam survey always says that top end cards represent a tiny percent of users.

Or is it just very limited stock that is making it seem like they are impossible to get ?(here in UK at least).
 
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Parsnip

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I cancelled my 3080 order. :crystalblob:
The longer I waited the more I started regretting it, I'll survive with 1070 for a while longer,
The money is going to a new CPU instead. :heroblob: That's the upgrade I really need outside of gaming, I have a regular 2600 that I purposely bought as a cheap stopgap when I moved away from my old haswell system, and now I'll replace it.

Just hoping the availability of AMD's new stuff will be decent. :blobweary:
 

ISee πŸ‘€

Oh_no!
Mar 1, 2019
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Just hoping the availability of AMD's new stuff will be decent. :blobweary:


I ordered my 3900x a couple of days after release last year.
I waited nearly two months.

RTX 3090 Strix does not even have an ETA. Ordered on day one. I hope for November, before CP 2077.

That's just how things are today.
 

Parsnip

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I ordered my 3900x a couple of days after release last year.
I waited nearly two months.
:surrenderblob:


All those of you claiming to have ordered an RTX 3090/3080 I don't believe you. I've never seen either in stock :confounded-face:.
What ISee said, most if not all of our local stores allow ordering anyway and they will be filled in order as stock arrives.
 

Parsnip

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R7 5800X will probably be mine. Possibly R7 5800, if they announce and make that available between now and whenever my mobo gets a bios update to support them. Sounds like B450's will start getting them early next year so there's some time there. Nice IPC jump.
 
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gabbo

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Dec 22, 2018
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So given the numbers of the 5000 line of CPU, is it worth grabbing 5800x or the inevitable 5700x instead of a 3700 if I'm not going above 1080p and am looking for some longevity? I'm still rocking a i5-3570K, so it's not like I rush to upgrade a lot.
Seems like I could save cash now on a 3600 or 3700 and upgrade after a BIOS update down the road and be perfectly fine to ride out a generation
 

Theswweet

Dirty Weeb
Mar 12, 2019
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Zen 3 sounds great, though the price hike is a shame - Big Navi preview seems to point towards AMD being able to hit within a few percent of 3080 at the very least, which is a good sign, assuming those numbers aren't outliers.
 
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ISee πŸ‘€

Oh_no!
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Yeah AMD loves taking the prices from their competition as a base line. But people are fine with that strategy. :shrugblob:
Also please consider: They no longer include coolers for the 5800x and 5900x. I'm seeing 3800x and 3900x builds with stock coolers in surprising amount.

Do we know the exact specs, conditions AMD was running both their and Intel CPUs at? I assume that the Intel CPUs were running at base 2933 memory speed and 4.7GHz all core clocks. Which would be fair enough from a certain pov, but hardly what most enthusiasts will or would run their CPUs at.
I still assume that Intel will be slightly ahead, but at this point price will be more of a deciding factor than performance for them.
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
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I mean, it’s a problem, but given the efficiency of their stock cooler in my experience...

Anyway, I didn’t follow shit (as I’m shit broke), I suppose their new GPUs are near nvidia perfs without RTX but in the same price ballpark ?
 

ISee πŸ‘€

Oh_no!
Mar 1, 2019
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I mean, it’s a problem, but given the efficiency of their stock cooler in my experience...
Sure, many people buy aftermarket coolers anyway.
My point is that they are no longer including them, which brings down cost for them. Now most people will point out that those coolers are cheap to make, maybe 15-20€ (just my estimation).
But there is way more to it: You end up witch smaller and lighter product boxes, which means you can ship and store for less money. You are paying for a certain weight or a certain total package size and if you can ship +40% more product with one shipment...
There are less products that need to be kept track off and pre produced, less things that need to be pretested etc. It begins to add up quickly.


In the end: A r7 5800x should come out at around 500€+ here in the EU (because of included taxes), while an i7 10700k sits at around 360€ currently. Both do not include coolers; both will be similar enough in performance. That's a hefty price premium for gen 4.0 PCI-E.

AMD is a stock market company, of course they want to increase prices now that they are "ahead". I'm just a bit confused why the internet is celebrating though. Great CPUs, but not a great development for consumers.
 

gabbo

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I mean, it’s a problem, but given the efficiency of their stock cooler in my experience...

Anyway, I didn’t follow shit (as I’m shit broke), I suppose their new GPUs are near nvidia perfs without RTX but in the same price ballpark ?
They provided very little info about the RDNA2 line of cards in this presentation. GPU info comes later in the month
 
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Li Kao

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Thanks to both your answers. As I said I don’t follow hardware that closely, is the R7 5800x top of the line ? 500 ? And is the i7 10700 its competitor ? No, because, 500 ? :so-good-blob:
 

Parsnip

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I've been looking some B550 boards today. Maybe I'll upgrade from my 50€ b450 before the new cpu's are out instead of waiting and doing the bios shuffle.
No new chipsets are on the way that should make me reconsider?
 

ISee πŸ‘€

Oh_no!
Mar 1, 2019
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Thanks to both your answers. As I said I don’t follow hardware that closely, is the R7 5800x top of the line ? 500 ? And is the i7 10700 its competitor ? No, because, 500 ? :so-good-blob:
r5 5600X, 6c,12t
r7 5800X, 8c,16t
r9 5900x, 12c,24t
r9 5950x, 16c,36t

r5 3600x with 6c,12t has a MSRP of $300. Assuming a typical 1:1 € to $ conversion rate and adding ~16% EU tax to the price results in an estimated price of ~ 350€ for us.
It's a strange situation imo: I would get the 8 core 10700k for 360€ over a 6 core 5600x.
I assume ryzen 3000 will stay relevant for a while.

I've been looking some B550 boards today. Maybe I'll upgrade from my 50€ b450 before the new cpu's are out instead of waiting and doing the bios shuffle.
No new chipsets are on the way that should make me reconsider?
Not this year. The IO chip on zen 3 is still being manufactured in 12nm and because that's the case it's unlikely they are going to release new chipsets for mainboards, so those are going to stay on 12nm as well. 7nm lines must be pretty booked out now and occupied with making console APUs.
 
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Parsnip

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I think I'm going to finally give up on the ITX dream and settle for micro atx in general. It's just too many compromises when trying to build an actually small system, higher board prices aren't really all that attractive either.

ISee You are probably more versed in these than I will ever be, so what would you say are the, I don't know, top 5 b550 micro atx motherboards? I've been eyeing the MSI Mortar and Gigabyte Aorus Pro as my two possible picks so far, leaning on Mortar at the moment. Also in general, X570 vs B550, what were the cuts? Looking at the specs of B550 boards I can't really spot anything missing as such.
 

ISee πŸ‘€

Oh_no!
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I think I'm going to finally give up on the ITX dream and settle for micro atx in general. It's just too many compromises when trying to build an actually small system, higher board prices aren't really all that attractive either.

ISee You are probably more versed in these than I will ever be, so what would you say are the, I don't know, top 5 b550 micro atx motherboards? I've been eyeing the MSI Mortar and Gigabyte Aorus Pro as my two possible picks so far, leaning on Mortar at the moment. Also in general, X570 vs B550, what were the cuts? Looking at the specs of B550 boards I can't really spot anything missing as such.
X570 = PCIe 4.0 lanes through the CPU and the chipset.

B550 = PCIe 4.o lanes through the CPU. PCIe 3.0 lanes through the chipset.

That's it. X570 allows to run more gen 4.0 NVMes and to mix a gen 3.0 GPU with a gen 4.0 NVMe. On b550 you have to use a gen 4.0 GPU (rtx 3000, AMD 5700) if you want to use a gen 4.0 NVMe.

What's your budget and what's the CPU you want to use? Most mATX Boards are rather cheap with not great power delivery. I'd actually recommend an itx board for small factor builds, even if you don't plan to keep everything itx. Especially if you want to get a 3800X 3800XT, 4800X or better.
 
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Parsnip

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X570 = PCIe 4.0 lanes through the CPU and the chipset.

B550 = PCIe 4.o lanes through the CPU. PCIe 3.0 lanes through the chipset.

That's it. X570 allows to run more gen 4.0 NVMes and to mix a gen 3.0 GPU with a gen 4.0 NVMe. On b550 you have to use a gen 4.0 GPU (rtx 3000, AMD 5700) if you want to use a gen 4.0 NVMe.

What's your budget and what's the CPU you want to use? Most mATX Boards are rather cheap with not great power delivery. I'd actually recommend an itx board for small factor builds, even if you don't plan to keep everything itx. Especially if you want to get a 3800X 3800XT, 4800X or better.
I don't really have a budget as such, but obviously I wouldn't want to spend too much money if I can help it. The MSI MAG B550M Mortar comes in at 140-150€ where I'm at, so around there is my budget I guess. It has 8+2+1 Duet Rail Power System, whatever that means. :D
I was thinking about going for the R7 tier and am only considering Zen 3, so for now that means 5800X. Maybe they'll announce and release non-X versions before I actually buy anything, but that's how things are right now.
 
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Pommes

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Do we know the exact specs, conditions AMD was running both their and Intel CPUs at? I assume that the Intel CPUs were running at base 2933 memory speed and 4.7GHz all core clocks. Which would be fair enough from a certain pov, but hardly what most enthusiasts will or would run their CPUs at.
I still assume that Intel will be slightly ahead, but at this point price will be more of a deciding factor than performance for them.

Gamers Nexus checked this with AMD: AMD claims that they where using the same configuration for both Intel and AMD systems (3600 MHz memory speed). Timestamped video:
 
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C-Dub

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My 2012 Mac Mini, which was acting as my Plex server, has finally died. So I'm planning to repurpose my old i7 6700K as a fileserver and grab a Zen 3 and PCIe 4.0 NVMe, and move my RAM, 2070 Super and SSDs over to it for a sort of cheap upgrade.

Money not being an issue, is the X570 the better choice for a Zen 3 CPU? I don't know too much about AMD.
 

Javetus

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Sep 17, 2019
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Any news on how much power will the new cards need? I don't know if my current pc could handle it
 

ISee πŸ‘€

Oh_no!
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So if I wanted a Gen 4.0 NVMe, I should get an X570, right?
What parsnip said.
Also keep in mind, the gen 4.0 slot on b550 will only run at 4.0 speeds if the GPU is also gen 4.0 (RTX 3000, AMD 5700, AMD 6000).
Only way to run a gen 4.0 nvme with a gen 3.0 gpu is to use x570.
 

Pogi

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Jun 25, 2019
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Feels like Gamers Nexus came out of nowhere. Suddenly they're the go-to for all things PC gaming.

I still would prefer to read a Tom's Hardware article though. I can't ctrl+f a video.
I prefer Hardware Unboxed, most of the time GN is just too in-depth. lmao.
 

Phoenix RISING

A phoenix always RISES!
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This article may as well have read "Nvidia Can't Figure Out How to Make Money. Hopes AMD Will Help Servicing All These Customers."

Because that's basically what they've conceded.


I prefer Hardware Unboxed, most of the time GN is just too in-depth. lmao.
I will check them out. Gamer's Nexus dude tends to ramble, too.
 

Li Kao

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I don't know why I ask since poor, but do games generally support ultrawide monitor nowadays ?
#FF14addict
 

Dandy

Bad at Games.
Apr 17, 2019
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Amazon.ca has the 3800x on for $396CAD, regular $491. Not sure if I should buy it or not. Any advice?
 

C-Dub

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I don't know why I ask since poor, but do games generally support ultrawide monitor nowadays ?
#FF14addict
It's getting more and more common, especially with 3D games - I generally notice when a game isn't 21:9 and operate under the assumption that it will be by default.

2D games are, for obvious reasons, stuck at the developer's intended aspect ratio. That's usually 16:9, but I've played a few 4:3 and 16:10 titles too.
 
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Durante

Durante

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Yeah, it (21:9 support) is getting better, but it's not really fully there. It really depends on what you are playing.
  • Western AAA: generally yes
  • Western indie: usually patched in if not there (unless the game flops or is very obscure)
  • Eastern AAA: depends on the publisher and development team, but chances aren't as good as western
  • Eastern indie: usually no, but there are exceptions
  • Koei Tecmo: HA β†— HA β†˜ HA β†— HAβ†˜ PEβ†— KOβ†˜ PE β†— KOβ†˜
 

Parsnip

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Ha, almost went ahead and bought the B550 mobo I've been eyeing in advance and figured I'd start using it now.
Good thing I actually looked at the cpu support list. Turns out that supporting the older Ryzens, which I still have, is a premium feature reserved for X570 chipsets.

:toucan:

Been also thinking about possibly finally updating my nearly 13 year old cpu cooler. Well, the heatsink. I've swapped the fans on it before, but the heatsink remains the same old NH-U12P.
 
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xinek

ζ—₯本θͺžγŒθ‹¦ζ‰‹
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I don't know why I ask since poor, but do games generally support ultrawide monitor nowadays ?
#FF14addict
It's common enough that I don't really think about it. If it's not built in, there are usually mods. And if not or if they're not great, it's not a huge deal (see Persona 4). I've held off buying for games I really wanted but that didn't support ultrawide, but that seems to happen rarely.
 
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Copons

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I've got a bit of a dumb question.

I've currently got Win installed on an old SATA SSD.
Now I've bought an NVMe drive and I'm wondering if I should bother formatting the SSD and installing Win on the NVMe, or simply just use it for games and other apps.

I mean, improved boot times aside, I'm interested in knowing if having Win on a slower drive would be a bottleneck for games installed on a faster drive. :unsure:
 

Dandy

Bad at Games.
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I am now in the process of ordering parts for my new PC. The videocard will have to wait for now, obviously, but I'd like to have everything in place for when 3080s are in stock. ISee had suggested the Lian Li Lancool II Mesh as a case, but unfortunately it is not available anywhere that I can find(well, other than in white), and the price on Amazon is $270 from a third party seller right now. Does anyone have any other mid-range case suggestions that are comparable?
 

ISee πŸ‘€

Oh_no!
Mar 1, 2019
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I am now in the process of ordering parts for my PC. The videocard will have to wait for now, obviously, but I'd like to have everything in place for when 3080s are in stock. ISee had suggested the Lian Li Lancool II Mesh as a case, but unfortunately it is not available anywhere that I can find(well, other than in white), and the price on Amazon is $270 from a third party seller right now. Does anyone have any other mid-range case suggestions that are comparable?
Phantek P400A

Lancool II is slightly more comfortable to use in my experience (while building), but cooling performance wise the P400A is just as good.
There are two variants, the digital (with cheap RGB fans) and the cheaper normal version. I'd recommend getting the normal version and adding good standard fans, but if you want to safe money and love RGB: It's also fine.

Last, but not least, there is the bigger p500a, which is even better than the Lancool II imo.

I'm interested in knowing if having Win on a slower drive would be a bottleneck for games installed on a faster drive.
Shouldn't make a noticeable difference. Maybe if you run out of system memory a lot and the page file get some serious usage?
But if that's the case investing in memory capacity should be the prime goal.

I decided to buy it. I'm not sure how much the price will drop once the new ones come out, but more than $100 seems unlikely. But who knows?
Only time will tell and the 5800x is certainly the stronger CPU. But if MSRP doesn't change it will also be the more expansive CPU.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ryzen 3000 stays relevant for more budget orientated builds for a long time and doesn't drop much in price.
 
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Dandy

Bad at Games.
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Phantek P400A

Lancool II is slightly more comfortable to use in my experience (while building), but cooling performance wise the P400A is just as good.
There are two variants, the digital (with cheap RGB fans) and the cheaper normal version. I'd recommend getting the normal version and adding good standard fans, but if you want to safe money and love RGB: It's also fine.

Last, but not least, there is the bigger p500a, which is even better than the Lancool II imo.
Thanks!

I can't seem to find the power supply you recommended to me previously(SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply), or the one with the closest name was $400+. I really don't know how to compare power supplies other than "gold is good" or what price is reasonable.

Is this one any good?


Or maybe this one?


Sorry for asking you so many questions!
 
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Copons

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Shouldn't make a noticeable difference. Maybe if you run out of system memory a lot and the page file get some serious usage?
But if that's the case investing in memory capacity should be the prime goal.
I've got 32GB of RAM, so I should be good to go. πŸ™‚
The only time I had to do poke the page file was once that I went seriously overboard with Cities Skylines modding β€” but I had 16GB back then.

Anyway, having a small SSD just for the OS is nice even if only for making it easy to reinstall the OS without bothers.
If only Win had a straightforward way to move the user folders to a different drive...
 
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