There’s a reason they pushed the Steam release as hard as they did
News Epic Games Store
- Thread starter Blizniak
- Start date
Thanks for doing this, glad my spreadsheet was helpful, results are within the expected to be honest, as for the ???? I will check later, too bad we don't have the uncensored version, it would have been great.
BTW, did you all notice that both WWZ and Division 2 have a recoup period of 24 months?
??? above Omen of Sorrow is Dangerous Driving
Nobody listened to K.L. Smith.
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45 Million!
These are joke sums of money. If they have that much money to burn why not put some into the client development or funding 2-3 new games to attract customers? I just dont get it, they clearly have an abundance of cash, It it just a fundamental aversion to creating anything of value to the customer other than offering them an exclusive game?
They totally mis-read the PC audience. Must've thought people would just flock to wherever the game is being sold. Glad PC'ers have given eggs the cold shoulder.
Has to be Control. The release dates don't match but I really can't imagine anything else from that time period that would cost 15 and make so little. Maybe it was internally delayed from the moneyhat date with their spreadsheet.
The Outer Worlds is another candidate since it also launched on Gamepass so that would explain such a severe flop lol.
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Looking on EGS with the waybackmachine gave me nothing, the only game I could think of was the last season of the walking dead
What a massive cunt, jfc hahahaNobody listened to K.L. Smith.
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It's faster and easier to throw money at things that already exist instead of using it to create something entirely new that can potentially take years until there's even something to show.45 Million!
These are joke sums of money. If they have that much money to burn why not put some into the client development or funding 2-3 new games to attract customers? I just dont get it, they clearly have an abundance of cash, It it just a fundamental aversion to creating anything of value to the customer other than offering them an exclusive game?
They totally mis-read the PC audience. Must've thought people would just flock to wherever the game is being sold. Glad PC'ers have given eggs the cold shoulder.
Thankfully it didn't work out as expected.
Walking Dead is likely what it was. They had exclusivity on the whole series after they got relisted. Ontop of almost entirely funding the production of Ep 3/4 of the Final Season.Then they had exclusivity on the “Definitive Edition” rerelease later that year.
TWD is a big franchise. Exclusivity on 6 games (1-4, Michonne and Definitive) adds up.
I often jokingly claimed that Tim's way to develop strategies is hilariously simple and similar to that of a kindergarden kid.
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Now I know it is true.
Hang on. Am I reading this correctly? Part of there marketing plan was to ridicule people who didn't like their store rather than try and win people over?
Seems such a smart move.
Seems such a smart move.
Reading those e-mails and seeing that the whole ooblets drama was design by Epic to fuck with people ia some next level sociopath, question now is, ooblets devs agreed to be the punching bags in Sweeney's fetich for money, or they didn't saw the backlash coming? Epic people cleary knew the post wasn't go well with the public.
Any way to check how many copies a game sold in that "overview" sheet of wave 1 titles? I don't really understand what it all means. So recoup period means exclusivity period, right? What does "extended lifetime recoup %" mean? What is "MG"?
The whole Ooblets drama was wild. While Epic did steer them down that press release the original draft was written by the devs and the insulting tone was still there after the external agency and K L Smith advised to reduce it. Also another note that was that the devs did mention that anyone who was "trolling" Steam vs EGS drama wouldn't fit into the current/future fanbase. So I'd say the Ooblets devs knew what they were getting into.
That's how they get you, free games but the bundles cost full price. The multi-bundle future is here!meanwhile at Creative assembly :-D
I wonder how many of those sales were also subsidised by $10 vouchers and creator codes still being funded by Epic? Hilarious shit store vanity project by clown faced libertarian tech bro that thinks his shit doesn't stink.
LTD Recoup is the money epic/the game made.
Recoup period is the period for which epic takes all the money that comes in (for early games it was the same as the exclusivity period, but as we learnt thanks to the trial most games have a lifetime recoup disconected from the exclusivity).
Expected lifetime recoup % means how much money they expect to make back.
You cant see how many copies the game sold because they only care about revenue and game price is different between regions
Recoup preiod is not the exclusivity period, it is the time the dev is not supposed to get any extra money unless they sell above expectations. Normally i was only 1 year (so same as exclusivity period) but they renegotiated in some cases to extend it because of how little money they got from them.
Extended Lifetime Recoup % is basically where they expect to end up after a set period of time in the "Money we made from them / Money we paid them". Considering a logarithmic curve where sales in the last years is basically meaningless.
MG i s Minimum Guarantee, aka the moneyhat.
They also got in before Epic shifted over to lifetime recoups, so they truly made out like bandits if true.
It says lifetime on Dauntless and the only place that’s available on PC is Epic. So all its money just goes to them? Seems a little wild.
Yeah someone on the notoriously humourless r/fuckepic cross referenced them as well with the hilarious losses.
Ashen would have to be the lowest of the 3.
Might have been some delays top explain the missing names. Outer Worlds was october 2019.
Ashen would have to be the lowest of the 3.
Might have been some delays top explain the missing names. Outer Worlds was october 2019.
I'd say: 50% they agreed and 50% they were "manipulated" to agree.
I imagine getting somebody to invest in your own creative idea is a big deal. Especially when you are quasi a freelancer and that investment gives you security and guarantees the survival of your family for the next, foreseeable future.
Add a bit of charisma and sweet talk during the negotiating phase and inexperienced people will start feeling gratitude. Gratitude that can make you jump over your head to defend the new feeding hand at all cost.
It's all a downward spiral from here. Epic is passively fueling you, because your message fits their agenda. You get trapped in your own inexperience, personality and increasing rage. Mastermind Tim sees an opportunity to takedown the important r/fuckepic community and to discredit the people on "salty" Resetera...
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Which is funny, isn't it? People, on other forums, told me that me complaining about Epic over and over again brings no results. A nameless enraged crowd is not even being noticed in the days of brilliant, business people doing business things.
Seems to me like they do read and even see themselves compelled to take actions to discredit everybody who is complaining about Epic exclusives.
Good job everybody, keep on complaining. It gets on their nerves.
Sorry, I have zero sympathies for the Ooblets devs.
honestly - it most likely doesn't (as far as devs/pubs deciding to sign the deals) ... but it DOES piss off Tim and Sergey ... and that brings me incredible joy
The Ooblets stuff was wild. The initial negativity could have easily been brushed aside. Just say you're a small, two person dev team, who can now self-publish and release the best version of their game with the extra funding. Let folks know that the 1.0 will hit Steam eventually, and everyone will be able to play it eventually. Instead, they went hard at anyone who may have an issue with it, fueling the fire for no reason. I'm still surprised by how terrible it was handled.
I'm just waiting for the page dedicated to me and Wok.honestly - it most likely doesn't (as far as devs/pubs deciding to sign the deals) ... but it DOES piss off Tim and Sergey ... and that brings me incredible joy
Also nice to see PC gamers still not just accepting any old shit.
GFWL and now this, good to see.
GFWL and now this, good to see.
The Ooblets doc was uh insightful. "Gee willikers, we did not anticipate our message crafted to be immature and flippant would result in a bunch of people responding in kind." Really though? I do feel bad for them, but.. yeah.
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I've been waiting for my steam curator to turn up in the cases at some point. People on steam are mean to me! Waaaahhhhhhh!
at this point i'm almost certain Wok has a quite sizeable collection of rule 34 Tim artwork stashed somewhere on his HDDI'm just waiting for the page dedicated to me and Wok.
One thing I noticed is that they really scaled down their minimum guarantees for later titles. Tony Hawk was only $4 million for example. It makes me wonder how much they paid for the Square Enix titles.
Also Tim Sweeney is an obnoxious manchild and 99% of the reason I dislike EGS and Epic in general.
this September 2020 doc is fascinating too ( Weekly Store Strategy meeting agenda 9/24/2020 )
... especially when you look at the 2019+their estimates for 2020 vs real 2020 results
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... especially when you look at the 2019+their estimates for 2020 vs real 2020 results
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Is it me or are the messages from the Ooblets devs badly redacted? You can pretty much make out the whole message.
I'm not sure if the MGs started dwindling down because of poor store performance or because the titles later on weren't as "big" I do recall Borderlands 3 having a big MG. But I get the feeling they're focusing more on big titles so I'd expect the SE titles to have big MGs.
For the love of god don't encourage him...
I agree, but it's hard for me to stay mad at a 2 person team being offered a MG in today's gaming landscape and then being thrown into the midst of an internet fight they clearly weren't well versed in.
I think Epic should have known what's going to happen and prepared the team with more support, pre-preparing a short FAQ etc. Dropping this small team in the middle of an internet fight was a recipe for disaster.
I'm extremely happy that Epic's money hatting resulted in a huge failure. I hope other billion dollar companies take note and won't ever try to do this again on pc.
Bonus
ngl i am aghast at some of these numbers... even with some guaranteed minimums being cosmically overestimated, the ytd earnings are brutal. have to wonder if this trend continued and the influence it had on how they threw money at stuff. did they become more selective and strategic? or did the deals become far less honeyed, which saw less devs willing to ink those contracts?
looking at all the egsclusives (and freebies) in 2021 - i'm gonna go with - the latter
Who knows, we'll see in the future. Maybe Epic decided to fund its own games through deals and acquisitions, or maybe they saw better results from the giveaways. Either way Epic's current strategy seems to be following the "winding down" model as presented in the Epic vs Apple trial documents. I do expect some sort of Hail Mary from Timmy before he's forced to admit defeat.
I think there is also a change in tactic as well that is coming into play. We know they were willing to drop a lot of money on a Sony deal. Borderlands want cheap. Guessing red dead want cheap. And if the rumours are true about final fantasy the square deal will not have been cheap. Ubisoft can't have been cheap with a 24 month deal either.
I think they have moved on from saviours of the indie market to an attempt to be the one stop shop for AAA games.
However that is another misunderstanding of the market. I don't game on pc because of the AAA market. That's just an added bonus. I'm here for the valheims, Minecraft, stardew valleys and terrarias.
Plus I have been gaming on pc for close to 30 years. I am used to waiting for games to come.
I think they have moved on from saviours of the indie market to an attempt to be the one stop shop for AAA games.
However that is another misunderstanding of the market. I don't game on pc because of the AAA market. That's just an added bonus. I'm here for the valheims, Minecraft, stardew valleys and terrarias.
Plus I have been gaming on pc for close to 30 years. I am used to waiting for games to come.
I don't think Epic need to "admit defeat". They're trying to break into a market that is dominated by Steam, they should have expected several years of losses before making any headway. What they need is to change strategy, to understand they can't make their store happen out of thin air by simply buying exclusivity. This is a game of patience and hard work, especially when going against an opponent like Steam.
They need to take a couple of years just working on their store and making it a viable product, rather than the horrible mess it is now. They also need to lose the curation and open up their store so that it can grow organically. They can easily keep funding the store with Fortnite profits in the meantime.
They need to take a couple of years just working on their store and making it a viable product, rather than the horrible mess it is now. They also need to lose the curation and open up their store so that it can grow organically. They can easily keep funding the store with Fortnite profits in the meantime.
B-but exclusivity works on consoles, why aren't PC players just accepting it!!!!!!!!!!!!
I fart in their general direction. If you sign off on a corporate-written piece meant to specifically make people angry, don't go crying when it does its fucking job.
Yes. That's the reasonable, long term approach. Add good event sales, maybe exclusives discounts for hot new releases and you'd have a plan that doesn't involve antagonizing your future costumers.
But that's not their way of thinking. Imagine them as 14 year old billionaire bullys who seek praise, instant gratification and are trapped in a containment of egocentric endorsement.
How to people like that get into power? I don't know. But after reading up on the horrific Blizzard story, involving suicide, sexual harassment, a Cosby suite...
I believe this industry has more of those bullys then I ever realized.
13 sales in Australia!
Though to be fair, Epic seems to be doing well in "blank." Maybe a source to target for future growth?
Though to be fair, Epic seems to be doing well in "blank." Maybe a source to target for future growth?