|OT| This is GachaCouncil - Playing with money

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
They've been releasing more new info in the leadup to the ZZZ beta launching tomorrow.
Here and here and here

- New map teases


- New faction tease (the middle one) + new characters are coming for the other 2




  • New story chapters
  • Selectable difficulty for story missions (Casual and Challenge)
  • More Bangboo stuff (mechanics, and special currency to get them/pull for them (unclear) can be gotten from various gamemodes).
  • New mission type without TV mode stuff
  • 2x speed mode for TV stuff
  • other QoL stuff
  • "Specialities" overhaul (was Strike/Pierce/Slash previously, now it's basically classes)


- element system explanation


Interestingly enough there was one playable "Wind" character in the previous beta, but that element is nowhere to be seen. Maybe they are actually planning to introduce more elements.


This all sounds really good. Hopefully there are some cool new male characters among the new batch, the gender ratio is pretty lopsided right now.
But in general it sounds like they know what they are doing and I just really wanna play, lol.



In the meantime, Arknights ? Girls’ Frontline 1 ?
I bounced off both, so I can't really chime in :/
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dandy

Dandy

Bad at Games.
Apr 17, 2019
1,664
4,006
113
This all sounds really good. Hopefully there are some cool new male characters among the new batch, the gender ratio is pretty lopsided right now.
But in general it sounds like they know what they are doing and I just really wanna play, lol.
This is one of my biggest issues with ZZZ - I don't love any of the characters they've shown so far. Without that. a gacha game loses most of its appeal, IMO.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
This is one of my biggest issues with ZZZ - I don't love any of the characters they've shown so far. Without that. a gacha game loses most of its appeal, IMO.
Yep, while there's other stuff like gameplay, story and general aesthetics; characters are front and center and you really need a few that you like or at least one you really really like.
I personally like quite a few of them already so I'm in danger fine, but I would still like to see more variety and a better gender balance. I think that just makes a game more interesting. I guess "on the bright side", Genshin also started with a very lopsided roster, but I would say is pretty good about this these days so not all hope is lost for ZZZ on that front.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dandy

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
July 3rd, called it.



2 weeks after Star Rail 2.3, 2 weeks before Genshin 4.8.
Perfectly balanced.
Hoyo really gonna try to monopolize my gaming time :face-with-cold-sweat:
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
Wuthering Waves gonna release in under a week and they took a page out of Hoyo's marketing book and have started drip-marketing the (presumably) 1.1 banner characters.

The launch 5* line-up isn't really grabbing me, but I really like Changli's design.






Zenless Zone Zero also revealed a new faction after it initially got leaked.

Concept art:


All girls of course :upside-down-face:

We should see more from the Sons of Calydon faction they've also announced but haven't shown anyone yet soon. There were s0me leaks too and they had 2 male characters among them (at least it's that faction), another animal person and one human. Though they said that leak also had outdated/scrapped designs, so who knows.

 
Last edited:

spindoctor

MetaMember
Jun 9, 2019
1,025
1,998
113

Right so who is planning to play this then? I don't even have space on my phone for another 30gb game lol. I don't actually play on the phone but I do need it for payments through the iOS billing system at least for mihoyo games.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
I will give at a try. Trailer song is a bop (Will Stetson has a great voice).
I've been lukewarm/critical of some aspects, but the recent marketing has done a good job of getting me excited to give it a fair try at least.
 

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,703
2,951
113
Installing it, but hmm. Not convinced by a lot of their choices and the conflicting designs it will end up with (gearing and endgame really are at odds in particular).
 

spindoctor

MetaMember
Jun 9, 2019
1,025
1,998
113
Somebody :p didn't make an OT for the game so I guess we'll have to talk about it here.

PROs:
  • The combat animations are incredible. Especially when you're switching characters and the next one comes in with that attack thing. Very cool, very flashy.
  • Echoes look cool, but that again is part of the first point.

CONs:
  • It's just Genshin again isn't it? Everything, and I mean everything, is a copy of that game so far (I'm still in the first city). It feels like a game made for those who love Genshin but have run out of things to do and that's not me by a long shot.
  • Little unpolished. Like for example, pressing the tutorial button in the middle of a fight throws up that 1 primogem earned notification in the middle of your screen obscuring the big enemy you're trying to fight.
  • Too much exposition at the start. So much word salad.
  • My ping to the EU server is comically high and fluctuating like crazy. Where exactly is this server located?

Anyway just played a bit. Seems like an okay game. Just not sure why I'd play it when I have Sumeru to finish off and all of Fontaine still left to do. Will play more and see how it goes though.

EDIT: Couple more thoughts. The PC version has lots of Nvidia features like DLSS and all which is nice. It's also locked at 60fps which is very not nice (they even copied this bullshit from Genshin). Also I found the camera controls a little unwieldy. I increased both horizontal and vertical sensitivities to 100% and it still doesn't feel as responsive as I'd like it to be. The mobile version is only 10gb in size which is great because I cannot fit another 30gb game on my phone now.

Also my userid is 600791188 if anyone wants to add. No idea on the longevity of this game tho.
 
Last edited:

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
I wasn't invested enough in the game to make on OT for I guess 3 people :p
For good reason I guess.

I'm... thoroughly unimpressed. The trailers are way better than the game tbh. I guess it looks good, combat is kinda fun and some of the movement-based sidequests are neat.

It's very unpolished. Text that doesn't fit into textboxes (constantly!), jumping and camera in general feels bad. The extra traversal options are sometimes janky. I had a puzzle bug out and not spawn a wind current so I wasted a bunch of time thinking "Do I need to kinda jump up there with the grappling hook? Or does it require some gadget I don't have yet?" before giving up and eventually I came back and tried again and now there was an extra wind current.
Sometimes animation transitions kinda bug out or something?
There's a lot of basic stuff behind some main story progression. You can't even do some of the puzzles you come across while going through the main city without some gadgets you only get later. Really weird choices.

The writing is shocklingly bad. Doesn't really feel like there's a real goal, just a bunch of people lore-dumping Proper Nouns on you without them really mattering and things that feel like side-quests with random interruption of the Rover having visions. The dialogue flow often also doesn't really make sense when they let you answer and then continue on with something completely unrelated.
The music is completely forgettable, something that actually surprises me since Punishing Gray Raven has a really good one.

Combat is fine. Dodging and parrying is neat and I like how every character has their own little gimmick, but I don't really see any sort of team-building depth.

Also it lifts so many things straight from Genshin that coupled with the general lack of polish it kinda feels like a cheap bootleg copy. The few unique twists aren't enough to offset that.

I will play some more since I want to see some more bossfights and also finish the currently available story out of morbid curiosity.
 

Dandy

Bad at Games.
Apr 17, 2019
1,664
4,006
113
I'm not working today, and I stopped playing after I unlocked the gacha stuff and got my first 5 star. I just don't care about what is happening, and some of the VA is grating(Yangyang). I don't see myself continuing to play it.
 

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,703
2,951
113
I won't go over the issues that Wuthering Waves suffers from by being rushed too much, text not fitting boxes, voice lines and cut scenes cutting off or repeating, textures not loading properly, the story rewrite being just TERRIBLE with pacing that makes Genshin looks good, etc etc.
I'll also skip over the non-English versions being AI generated with special characters breaking down text boxes, completely wrong translations, non-QWERTY keyboards being partially unrecognized (clearly, there was not an ounce of QA for all of that, like there probably wasn't much anywhere).

But for me the real problem lies in its supposed strength: the combat. The hit feedback is abysmal, especially with pistols and swords. The sound design in general is a huge step backward compared to PGR, and even the music is forgettable - and forgotten as far as I'm concerned.
The game just doesn't feel particularly good, it's serviceable and fast enough, but the dodge timing feels a bit generous, and the counter system... that's not a very interesting way to add such a system and favours button mashing early on. Not relying on stamina for running is an obvious addition and it makes no sense to not be the case in Genshin, and running on walls is nice and fast, but the movement is also really stiff and pretty jank.

The camera is also a huge, huge pain, not only is it too slow, but in combat if you lock an enemy it tries to refocus itself and it very often gets in the way, especially if there's ranged enemies around... and since you can't reposition it easily, that's a significant problem...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dandy
OP
Li Kao

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
7,903
15,992
113
I like WW well enough. Surprisingly I might add, given the jank and the shameless inspiration. And the word salad, oh boy the word salad.
But yeah, for the time being I'm continuing.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
I'm less negative after playing some more.
Outside of the god awful writing in the main story there's stuff to like here. There are some cool landmarks and sidequests seem to be a lot better (though they are still lessened by the localization and other issues).
It's fun enough, but I dunno how long I'd stick around for daily chores after playing through the initial content. Maybe for a bit if only cause I'm still very curious what their post-launch plans are and how much they can "fix", though I'm not super confident.
I'm very curious about how well its opening did revenue-wise. We'll have some idea next week.
 

Dandy

Bad at Games.
Apr 17, 2019
1,664
4,006
113
I got my first ever double 5 star in a gacha - Jiyan and Encore! Unfortunately, I just don't have very much fun in this one. I enjoy popping in for a dopamine hit from gambling, but after 20 minutes I stop playing the actual game.
 
Last edited:

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
It's fun enough, but I dunno how long I'd stick around for daily chores after playing through the initial content.
Well about that...

Already caught myself internally debating if I should stick with the game a bit longer or call it quits, and that's usually a sign that I should just call it quits.
I've played quite a lot since launch and I think I gave the game a fair chance, but while there's good stuff in there, it is severly lacking in the areas I prioritize the most.

Unironically, I think music is the biggest offender. Then followed by the bad localization and incredibly poorly written story.
The echo stuff is too grindy for me and while the exploration is not bad, it is severly undermined by those things (localization and music).

I hit Databank Level 12 and looked into how to raise it further, and it's just grinding the same mobs and bosses until the 20% drop chance gives me the highest rarity I've unlocked, until I hit level 15 where I can do it all over again for the next highest rarity.

The exploration as said is "fine", but it has a "been there done that" feel to it and while some areas are pretty, the music makes it harder to connect on that level and the localization and writing issues have already made it so I'm not really invested in this world on that level either, since learning more about it even if it were interesting would be badly translated anyway.

The combat is most likely the best aspect of the game, but again the lack of good music hurts and for me personally there is just not enough "teambuilding". Intro and Outro skills just ain't doing it for me alone. The parry and dodging is cool for a while, but it's not strong enough on its own to sustain my interest.

Maybe I'll log in a few more times and collect a few freebies but I dunno man.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dandy

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,703
2,951
113
Wasn't particularly lucky, but got Verina and Calcharo which is apparently the good ones to get.

But... yeah for me the issue is the combat, or more exactly the way the game presents it, and I think Calcharo is the ideal example: he uses a broadsword so he should be on the slower end (and he kinda is, but it's all relative)... but even using his powered up charged attack where he jumps in the air and slashes down... the feedback is just very strange and unsatisfying to me.
Since he hits multiple times, as almost every thing deals multiple instances of damage in the game for some reason (why not have big numbers instead of many small ones?)... all I can hear is chattering teeth. Big ass sword, strong dude, jump attack, and it makes a light "clack clack clack clack" sound. I haaaate that.

I think the game is fine - once all the technical issues will be resolved and they'll revamp the story for the N-th time - but it just doesn't do enough for me to stick to it, it reminds me an awful lot of circa 2007 when every MMO had to be a WoW-killer, and their pitch was always "it's like WoW but" with one element that was fine but the rest pretty shoddy.
You really need to have more than Genshin-but-not-as-good elements, and I don't think adding a very generous dodge and flavourless parry was what they needed.
And I don't like to compare it again to PGR, but the previous game just felt way better, even with early units like Bianca Veritas... she uses a bow, and her hits felt way more impactful than the heavy hitters in WW, and that's even before her big laser shots while in her ult...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dandy and Ascheroth

Dandy

Bad at Games.
Apr 17, 2019
1,664
4,006
113
I played today long enough to collect my daily login rewards, check my mail, use my selector, and then I was done. There is nothing special to me about WuWa. It's just fine... and I don't want to waste time on fine. I have good games I could be playing instead.
 

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,703
2,951
113
Confirmation! :partyblob:

Also a web event to prepare: contains a 4-star weapon and 3 pulls for the Bangboo banner.

And a Von Lycaon demo
I must say, I don't really like what I've played of ZZZ, nor even what it wants to be because it feels like a step backward after Genshin and HSR, but I do love the atmosphere, the genuinely different artstyle, and the music is so, so good. Even the event has such a great vibe, very different from the other Hoyo games.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
Yeah, it looks smaller scoped than Genshin and even Star Rail. I do not really mind that though, it actually makes me more curious about what their content plans are.
I think for me personally just having "Hoyo quality" in a new and different world is enticing enough. Even if they sometimes stumble, I do generally really like theirs worlds, characters and stories. (And I also expect to enjoy the gameplay from what I've seen).

I'm not sure it's just because Wuthering Waves is like it is, but I think I can't really do a "2nd Genshin" or even something more ambitious, so these "smaller" projects fit me well.
 

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,703
2,951
113
Speaking of smaller games, seems like Snowbreak is adding a new 100% drop banner, in the same way that Aether Gazer did.

They also doubled down a lot on the horny, those outfits are quite something


:wd_hot:
 

spindoctor

MetaMember
Jun 9, 2019
1,025
1,998
113
They also doubled down a lot on the horny, those outfits are quite something


:wd_hot:
You can't say that and then not post images or at least link to them. That's just mean.

Anyway I think I might be done with Wuthering Waves. I've not actually played it much but for me, the biggest problem is that it just fails to make the case that I should play it instead of Genshin. Every moment I'm playing WW I'm feeling like I should get back to Genshin instead. Now on the one hand, it's a little unfair to compare any game to Genshin which is an almost miraculous achievement of software engineering and artistry, but then when you release a game that is an absolute clone of that game then what else can you expect? The only thing WW does differently and better than Genshin is that you can sprint infinitely without using up stamina. Honestly, Genshin should just copy that from this game.

The second problem is that these games are sadly not finite. You can't just play through the story and then be done with it until the next story expansion drops. No, you need to play it every day to use up resin to collect gear and all that. And of course if you want to engage with the gacha system without paying much. I had this idea that I'll just try and finish the current story stuff and then put it down but you just can't partially engage with this kind of game. Feels like if you don't play it regularly and 'properly' then you are wasting the time you do play it half heartedly. Also, there's the fact that my eyes have glazed over when they've been delivering the story so I don't actually know what's going on anyway.

So I guess a question... has anyone reached the end of the current story? Is it worth pushing through till that point?

It's a shame really because it's not a bad game. There are problems that have been widely talked about here and elsewhere. The developers are being very generous with their mea culpas for the mistakes they've made. Aside from the ingame freebies, I read they're offering refunds to people because there was a misleading text description of some gacha weapon. I mean the game was clearly not completely ready for release and needed a few more months but that's true for most games these days. As a live service this one has a had a fairly stable launch. It's just that, again, when you compare it against Genshin, it looks like a clown show. And because of that I feel like some of the negativity I've seen towards the game is overblown and unwarranted. Perhaps some sort of tribalism that I'm not aware of in the gacha community. But then I was shocked when I learned a few months ago that there was legitimate bitterness between the Genshin and Star Rail communities because of the various differences in how mihoyo handles both games.
 

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,703
2,951
113
You can't say that and then not post images or at least link to them. That's just mean.



The first one also started interactable skins where you get a scene where you can actually put your operative in different positions and move her limbs or grab her close to you which is :face-with-tears-of-joy:

Although... that game has a weird rep, because I did the last story chapter (since it's all trial characters it's not too hard), and it has the first actual true fanservice moment: a chaste little kiss.
Yeah... I think people might be a bit warped by their promos skits in bilibili with ASMR and shit, because in game, it's pretty far from the new Nikke bunny suits with remote vibrators or Blue Archive and underage characters with no panties dropping their dildos mid fight.

The second problem is that these games are sadly not finite. You can't just play through the story and then be done with it until the next story expansion drops. No, you need to play it every day to use up resin to collect gear and all that. And of course if you want to engage with the gacha system without paying much. I had this idea that I'll just try and finish the current story stuff and then put it down but you just can't partially engage with this kind of game. Feels like if you don't play it regularly and 'properly' then you are wasting the time you do play it half heartedly. Also, there's the fact that my eyes have glazed over when they've been delivering the story so I don't actually know what's going on anyway.
Ultimately, that's a problem for all GaaS games, even more so for companies that have multiple ones. People don't have infinite time, and here for daily heavy games like Kuro produces, it's a much bigger problem when it makes a good chunk of time every day and they compete directly with competitors. That's why I dropped PGR.

Also why people fight even among games by the same dev like Genshin and HSR... especially when one will get something before the other.
 
  • Bonk
Reactions: Dandy

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
So I guess a question... has anyone reached the end of the current story? Is it worth pushing through till that point?
I played through the existing story since I wanted to give it a fair chance and had time anyway and no... it's not worth it. At all.
As a comparison, it's worse than anything Hoyo ever put out. Yes, worse than even the Luofu in Star Rail.



Revenue is out and Wuthering Waves cashed in $16 million (without CN Android and PC, it's probably around $40 milltion total). It's not terrible, but pretty underwhelming given the budget and marketing dollars that went into it, and the numbers the competition pulls (and they were absolutely eyeing those numbers when making the game).
June will be interesting, since Yinlin is presumably more popular, from her design at least, though she doesn't show up in the game at all so far, lol. Japan interest is currently cratering due to the constant fuckups (and that's your 2nd largest market) and it looks like even China did not latch onto the game in a big way.
And the competition is Clorinde/Alhaitham + Siegewinne/Furina in Genshin and Firefly/Ruan Mei(probably) in Star Rail. Then July comes around and their 1.1 update is gonna land on the same day ZZZ releases.
They have a pretty rocky road ahead.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dandy

spindoctor

MetaMember
Jun 9, 2019
1,025
1,998
113
It's possible I've seen too much but this doesn't look egregious to me. The second outfit only a step or two away from what Mihoyo is doing with Star Rail (Acheron or Black Swan). The first one, yea, probably closer to a Hentai cartoon than a game :p

it's pretty far from the new Nikke bunny suits with remote vibrators or Blue Archive and underage characters with no panties dropping their dildos mid fight.
Excuse me what the actual fuck. You're exaggerating here right?

Ultimately, that's a problem for all GaaS games, even more so for companies that have multiple ones. People don't have infinite time, and here for daily heavy games like Kuro produces, it's a much bigger problem when it makes a good chunk of time every day and they compete directly with competitors. That's why I dropped PGR.
It's true that live services do try to monopolize your time and keep you playing with FOMO and all, but these energy based games are on another level I feel. Like if I don't play Call of Duty for two seasons I'll miss out on whatever cosmetics and events that were made available during that time, but I can still jump in and play my next match without a disadvantage. If you don't play Genshin or something for 2 months and you don't use up your resin, you will be at the exact place you were 2 months ago. You needed to be using your resin to farm for artifacts that you need to deal with harder content. You will be behind on your gacha economy, I realize after typing this that it's not really the same to compare a single player game with a multiplayer game but the point I'm making is that your required progression in these games needs you to be playing daily, using your resin and doing the chores for the primogems. Blah I hope this makes sense.

Also why people fight even among games by the same dev like Genshin and HSR... especially when one will get something before the other.
Yeah it's obvious Star Rail is getting better and faster QOL features and I understand that it might be frustrating for Genshin players but it's no reason for collective animosity between communities. Making these changes in Genshin is probably much harder. When they announced they're increasing daily resin from 160 to 200, people asked why not 240 like Star Rail. Now aside from the fact that I think Genshin resin re-generates faster than Star Rail, it's important to understand that they don't just cut and replace 160 with 240 in the code and call it a day. There's likely millions of lines of code and god knows what dependencies on these systems that need to be handled. And I do believe that they should put in the engineering effort to do it, but it does explain why the newer code base is probably easier to modify than the one that's been running in production for 5 years.

I played through the existing story since I wanted to give it a fair chance and had time anyway and no... it's not worth it. At all.
As a comparison, it's worse than anything Hoyo ever put out. Yes, worse than even the Luofu in Star Rail.
That's a shame. I played for a few minutes today and just skipped the dialogs as fast as I could. And it occurs to me that if you tell yourself you're only playing for the story and then you skip the story as well, what are you doing? You're going through the motions at that point. I kind of do want to play the game because I don't it's bad and you can obviously see so much work goes into making a game like this and they did most of it quite well.

Do you get enough tickets by the end of the story to pull Yinlin? Maybe that could be a reason to keep going. Not a good sign if you're looking for reasons to play a game though...
 

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,703
2,951
113
It's possible I've seen too much but this doesn't look egregious to me. The second outfit only a step or two away from what Mihoyo is doing with Star Rail (Acheron or Black Swan). The first one, yea, probably closer to a Hentai cartoon than a game :p
Those are some outfits that go for the more niche fetishes, but it's not too far from the mainstream.
Some others like the new


... I think it's a lot less shocking than Shenhe actually, it's nothing too weird for a modern fiction game.

Excuse me what the actual fuck. You're exaggerating here right?
Not at all.
Not going to post those skins though. And even less the animation for the second (and I won't search for it either :cold-sweat: but I think it was Hanako in BA).

It's true that live services do try to monopolize your time and keep you playing with FOMO and all, but these energy based games are on another level I feel. Like if I don't play Call of Duty for two seasons I'll miss out on whatever cosmetics and events that were made available during that time, but I can still jump in and play my next match without a disadvantage. If you don't play Genshin or something for 2 months and you don't use up your resin, you will be at the exact place you were 2 months ago. You needed to be using your resin to farm for artifacts that you need to deal with harder content. You will be behind on your gacha economy, I realize after typing this that it's not really the same to compare a single player game with a multiplayer game but the point I'm making is that your required progression in these games needs you to be playing daily, using your resin and doing the chores for the primogems. Blah I hope this makes sense.
Gachas are much closer to MMOs in general, where you really, really want to play all the time. And if you miss "seasons" in them, it's not even that you are only behind on economy, everything you have is worthless trash and you need to catch up or literally can't play anything... a lot of bad ideas come from there sadly...

Yeah it's obvious Star Rail is getting better and faster QOL features and I understand that it might be frustrating for Genshin players but it's no reason for collective animosity between communities. Making these changes in Genshin is probably much harder. When they announced they're increasing daily resin from 160 to 200, people asked why not 240 like Star Rail. Now aside from the fact that I think Genshin resin re-generates faster than Star Rail, it's important to understand that they don't just cut and replace 160 with 240 in the code and call it a day. There's likely millions of lines of code and god knows what dependencies on these systems that need to be handled. And I do believe that they should put in the engineering effort to do it, but it does explain why the newer code base is probably easier to modify than the one that's been running in production for 5 years.
A lot of things comes from disgruntled Genshin fans, one of them like you said, is stamina: it's actually slower in Genshin (8 minutes instead of 6), so numbers are a bit different, but next patch the limit will be 200, which is exactly 24h (and a convenient 5 condensed resins)... that's the kind of weird little war that really amounts to nothing, even if Genshin could really benefit from an overflow stamina mechanic.

The bigger deal was endgame content, since long before release, HSR was touted as a real endgame unlike Genshin from people that want to be more hardcore than hardcore in casual games.
And HSR released with... Memory of Chaos, which is Spiral Abyss, but even more time constrained.
And Simulated Universe which was a pretty poor version of rogue-lites modes of that type, which was largely very easy, but forced you to... autobattle it AFK every week, on top of needing to grind it for relics. Calling that endgame was pretty questionnable, but still to this day, you can see it flare up in conversation, about how HSR is so much better at it than Genshin for some reason.
Well, now there's the Imaginarium Theatre mode coming, we'll see where it goes...


That's a shame. I played for a few minutes today and just skipped the dialogs as fast as I could. And it occurs to me that if you tell yourself you're only playing for the story and then you skip the story as well, what are you doing? You're going through the motions at that point. I kind of do want to play the game because I don't it's bad and you can obviously see so much work goes into making a game like this and they did most of it quite well.

Do you get enough tickets by the end of the story to pull Yinlin? Maybe that could be a reason to keep going. Not a good sign if you're looking for reasons to play a game though...
Personally, I stopped Wuthering Waves because I didn't particularly enjoy the combat, despite liking the smoother exploration compared to Genshin (even if the world is not that great and performance quite poor).
But the story... I can't say I cared that much, because it didn't feel very well written (and it gets worse in many aspects later on) and more importantly the translation and voice direction were just terrible.
When you get voice lines like "You're just like Civilization Simulation Sand Table Tethys has told us..." you zone out preeetty fast.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
A lot of things comes from disgruntled Genshin fans, one of them like you said, is stamina: it's actually slower in Genshin (8 minutes instead of 6), so numbers are a bit different, but next patch the limit will be 200, which is exactly 24h (and a convenient 5 condensed resins)... that's the kind of weird little war that really amounts to nothing, even if Genshin could really benefit from an overflow stamina mechanic.
Actually, 200 Resins are over 24 hours, it's 26 hours and 40 minutes :)

The bigger deal was endgame content, since long before release, HSR was touted as a real endgame unlike Genshin from people that want to be more hardcore than hardcore in casual games.
And HSR released with... Memory of Chaos, which is Spiral Abyss, but even more time constrained.
And Simulated Universe which was a pretty poor version of rogue-lites modes of that type, which was largely very easy, but forced you to... autobattle it AFK every week, on top of needing to grind it for relics. Calling that endgame was pretty questionnable, but still to this day, you can see it flare up in conversation, about how HSR is so much better at it than Genshin for some reason.
Well, now there's the Imaginarium Theatre mode coming, we'll see where it goes...
I think there are 2 things the "endgame crowd" wants:
  • something to grind over and over again and "feel" like they are making progress
  • something "hard" to validate the grind/purchasing decisions

Simulated Universe did satisfy the first of those for a while. There's a lot of "grind" to be done initially, levelling the skill tree and collecting all of the events, relics and blessings. After that it's basically just a glorified "artifact route" in Genshin, where people spend inordinate amounts of time for little gains and probably burn out fast.
But the Simulated Universe quickly got "DLCs" with the Swarm Disaster and Gold & Gears, and these are a lot better at both providing "grind" and challenge, while providing a fairly streamlined "ciritical path" for those who only want the story and major rewards. They are also more complex in terms of gameplay and provide a lot more ways of approaching it. Swarm has a special skill tree that requires a lot of grind if you want to unlock everything and has challenges for beating the highest difficulty with every path. Gold & Gears is similar, but provides even harder difficulties on top.
Imo they should drop the weekly Simulated Universe runs and just focus on dropping new "DLCs" every now and then. But 2.3 overhauls the entire base version apparently, so I'm curious how that's going to look like.
Memory of Chaos is nothing special, but it provided the "challenge", until Simulated Universe added permanent hard content. And now it alternates with Pure Fiction and soon Apocalyptic Shadow to give you a new "combat puzzle" every 2 weeks instead of having you do the same thing over and over again.
I do think Star Rail is quite good at satisfying that particular crowd nowadays, and definitely better at it than Genshin.

That's why I'm quite looking forward to Imaginarium Theatre in Genshin - Abyss is boring as hell after you do it the first time, because the lineup only changes once per patch. Doing it the first time is sometimes even fun, when there's a new lineup and you'll have to come up with teams to tackle it. But then the 2nd and 3rd time are just going through the motion and its a chore.
Imaginarium Theatre at least takes one of those boring refreshes away and replaces it against something new. And what I'm personally quite happy about is that it gives you a reason to use many characters and even breathes life into a bunch of them that would otherwise just rot on the bench. Since the mode has no timelimit for primos and the "casual rewards" (photo mode poses) and is reportedly easier than Abyss, even 4 stars can shine (especially 4 star DPS').
 
  • This!
Reactions: Dandy

Dandy

Bad at Games.
Apr 17, 2019
1,664
4,006
113

WuWa is giving people a bunch of compensation for various things. They are also pushing the Yinlin banner out early, as well as some other things.
 
Last edited:

spindoctor

MetaMember
Jun 9, 2019
1,025
1,998
113

WuWa is giving people a bunch of compensation for various things. They are also pushing the Yinlin banner out early, as well as some other things.
Well that blog post seems like they are trying their best to resolve all the issues they can and being super generous with the freebies.

I do hope bringing Yinlin forward is because they don't want to compete with other games' popular banners and not a case of them not making as much money as they wanted or needed to and this is a panic reaction from the bean counters.

Even though I don't see myself playing it much I would like to see the game succeed.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
Can't really see this as anything other than them panicking. Pushing content and especially a banner suddenly forward tells me that either they are already bleeding more players than expected or that they haven't made enough money and pushing a banner forward gets them another influx of cash earlier, or both.
Shortening the patch by 1 week additionally tells me they aren't confident and want to get out of the way for ZZZ. Which is certainly smart, but makes me really wonder why they even chose to fill this "slot" to begin with, since it was not hard to predict ZZZ filling it.
The content itself shouldn't really be affected, since this should have been long finished anyway, but it's a week lost for future updates and bug-fixing/polishing and its not like the launch content was in a great state on that front.

The many changes to ease progression are surely welcome, but also making so many sweeping changes to your long-term in-game economy this soon after release once again tells me this was not at all ready. These things should have been ironed out way earlier in the betas (and its not like people weren't complaining). Also means this is probably not all that well tested and could lead to other issues down the line.
I don't wanna be all doom and gloom, but the project management of this game is absolutely terrible and I wonder if they can get things under control in time.

They are also publishing this on a Sunday and it doesn't look like a pre-scheduled message, so everyone is probably overworked and sleep-deprived in addition.
Not a great foundation to build on.
 

Cacher

MetaMember
Jun 3, 2020
4,882
14,371
113
GFL2's CN main menu update. Good old tsundere.

Edit: There is a dorm mode in the game where you can view the units in different positions through a free camera. Now players can save a specific angle or action and put it onto the main menu.
 
Last edited:
  • Gib
Reactions: Vantr

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
Zenless Zone Zero stream in a week, we're almost there!



They also dopped a Rina trailer.


And for completion, the Grace demo from a few days ago:


I also just realized that the Maid/Butler themed faction is also horror/monster-themed:
Rina: Ghost
Von Lycaon: Werewolf
Ellen: Shark
Corin: either Slasher Villain (her pizzacutter chainsaw) or Frankenstein? (various screws and stuff in her design)
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
Pretty fun Special Program.
Awesome trailer (Hoyoverse will never beat the allegations of being a music company in disguise and I wouldn't have it any other way)



They showed a bunch of new characters too, 2 guys even :O


Still very lopsided ratio though.
 

Cacher

MetaMember
Jun 3, 2020
4,882
14,371
113
GFL2 has some great character preview videos, and this new one is my favorite so far. Dorky chunni robotic beast girl, so good :face-savouring-delicious-food: (all of them are androids, btw)

The video is only in Chinese. Should be easy to understand as it is just about Dushevnaya shooting things and acting chunni.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Vantr

spindoctor

MetaMember
Jun 9, 2019
1,025
1,998
113
The legend goes that at some point in recent history there was a person sitting under a tree when an apple fell to the ground. This person ignored the fucking apple because he was pondering a far more important question...

"What if GTA... but animé?"

 
  • Like
Reactions: Cacher

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
1,703
2,951
113
It looks nice, it's probably for the best that the devs of Tower of Fantasy focus on what worked (the cities), rather than what didn't (most of the rest). Not going to judge the car controls though, but I'm less convinced about them.

The visuals though, bit rough. I really don't like the reflections, at night in the rain it looks very inconsistent with the rest of the art style...
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
Infinity Nikki hit 20 million pre-orders


That's the open-world dress-up gacha with an ex-Zelda game designer on board (Kentaro Tominaga who was a planner for Breath of the Wild and director for its DLC among many other things).
I'm actually really curious about that one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dandy

Dandy

Bad at Games.
Apr 17, 2019
1,664
4,006
113
Infinity Nikki hit 20 million pre-orders


That's the open-world dress-up gacha with an ex-Zelda game designer on board (Kentaro Tominaga who was a planner for Breath of the Wild and director for its DLC among many other things).
I'm actually really curious about that one.
I'm definitely curious about it as well. I don't like how soft/sweet/bored all of the faces are, but I'll give anything a try!
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
I feel like it's kinda under the radar, but Heaven Burns Red will have its English release on the 15th next week.
The JP client is on Steam so I'm curious how they'll handle it. It's either a new Client for EN or be a standalone client without Steam.

The JP version is almost 3 years ahead at this time (initial release February 10th 2022), so they've been posting what changes the global version is gonna have:
Reddit repost, since stuff is only on Twitter for whatever reason:
Volume 1

Summary:
  • The game client will start at version 4.0 (around JP 2nd anniversary) in terms of optimizations, QoL and the like
  • It will release with Chapter 3 of the Main Story and 10 Event Stories (these are permanent from what I understand)
  • It will release with the gacha characters until 2022/11/29
  • Tutorial selector letting you choose 1 of 12 SS (highest tier) characters:

  • Event stories give more rewards
  • Some combat activities seem to have gotten their requirements lowered
Volume 2
  • Reduced Pity from 200 to 150 pulls
  • Additional login freebies containing a bunch of pulls, 3 guaranteed SS ranks
  • A bunch of stuff about Monthly Pass adjustments, increased rewards, some freebies
  • A Release Celebration Banner guaranteeing one of 7 SS ranks

  • A 5-Step Banner guaranteeing an SS rank in Step 3 and 5, with Step 1 and 3 being cheaper
  • Featured Banners for guaranteeing a Fire and Thunder-Type SS rank respectively
  • Listing for how much stuff you get from story which has another guaranteed SS rank ticket at the end
  • Angel Beats collab for EN version is planned, but will not be there at launch

I'll definitely give it a try since I like Magical Girls and it looks like Yostar is trying to take the EN version seriously with all the adjustments and goodies.
And I'm curous about the story - I know Cacher has been playing the JP version recently and it seems to have its highs and lows, but it must be doing something right given the amount of hours played in less than 2 months :D
 
  • Comfy
Reactions: Cacher

Cacher

MetaMember
Jun 3, 2020
4,882
14,371
113
I'll definitely give it a try since I like Magical Girls and it looks like Yostar is trying to take the EN version seriously with all the adjustments and goodies.
And I'm curous about the story - I know Cacher has been playing the JP version recently and it seems to have its highs and lows, but it must be doing something right given the amount of hours played in less than 2 months :D
I was lucky because JP was doing this 1000-day celebration thing and gave out a lot of free pulls and resources, so it was easily the best time to jump in.

Story is good to great, depending on if you like the traditional way of Japanese storytelling (not sure how to call it) where there is a lot of dialogues or monologues describing feelings. Personally I prefer compact writing so the writing has its iffy moments but overall story is pretty nice. Maybe too many jokes in chapter 1 and 2 to some people but I like them.

Gameplay though... I hit a wall lately because some of my characters are already at max level but main story missions are getting relatively difficult to my team. There is a lot of grinding to be done to make powerful accessories and equipment. I find that this steep climb in difficulty may be a miscalculation of the development team. According to steam review and other forums many people dropped the game because they are not able to clear later story missions and events due to not having certain characters (for specific elements against boss) as well as lack of good equipment. My motivation is certainly dropping as well but I will try to stick to it for the story. Not sure what will happen after GFL2 release though because it surely will be my main game going forward. :face-with-stuck-out-tongue-and-tightly-closed-eyes:
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
5,366
12,369
113
Story is good to great, depending on if you like the traditional way of Japanese storytelling (not sure how to call it) where there is a lot of dialogues or monologues describing feelings. Personally I prefer compact writing so the writing has its iffy moments but overall story is pretty nice. Maybe too many jokes in chapter 1 and 2 to some people but I like them.
I play multiple Hoyoverse games, wordy writing is not an issue :cold-sweat:

Gameplay though... I hit a wall lately because some of my characters are already at max level but main story missions are getting relatively difficult to my team. There is a lot of grinding to be done to make powerful accessories and equipment. I find that this steep climb in difficulty may be a miscalculation of the development team. According to steam review and other forums many people dropped the game because they are not able to clear later story missions and events due to not having certain characters (for specific elements against boss) as well as lack of good equipment. My motivation is certainly dropping as well but I will try to stick to it for the story. Not sure what will happen after GFL2 release though because it surely will be my main game going forward. :face-with-stuck-out-tongue-and-tightly-closed-eyes:
Difficult story is annoying, I prefer it if there's no wall there. But Global will only launch with the first 10 months of content, so presumably there'd be more time to build up characters before more difficult stuff drops anyway (unless it has a lot of powercreep and it difficulty by "you need to pull the newest character" which I'm not a fan of at all.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cacher