i wouldn't know ... i'm blocking ads pretty much everywhere
News Epic Games Store
- Thread starter Blizniak
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i wouldn't know ... i'm blocking ads pretty much everywhere
Yes, pretty much. If you ever checked Epic announcing games coming to their store on their Twitter feed, you can be sure some people will ask "is it free?" -- for upcoming/new games.
(on a sidenote, there are also always droves of people completely ignoring whatever game is being announced and just complain about Fortnite instead, which is a bit funny)
Metro Exodus buy on EGS trailers played before every youtube video I tried to watch for a time (not logged in/no history). They pushed that hard.
For all the good it did them past misleading initial reports (but I guess that's what's stuck for people who don't care all that much about it).
Im sure Borderlands3 will have terrible techno blasting over an obnoxious trailer when it drops.. Cant think of anything getting a big push. Metro maybe, though I didnt see anything for it myself.
Remember, it's streamers who are suppose to advertise these games on twitch and youtube and those tiny indie devs that Epic claim to be helping. Theyre suppose to advertise gor themselves. Marketing bootstraps arent going to pull themselves up, and Sweeney clearly wears marketing loafers.
I don't pay much attention to ads or PR, and only really follow a handful of indie devs who are too small for Epic to notice (thankfully). Shenmue was the only one I was familiar with the moment it was announced (okay, Metro Exodus too, but I can't play FPS'es since they make me sick, so I ignore most of them). All the rest were unknowns, or I was familiar with the devs, but didn't really play their games at all. I mean, I guess it helps those devs that maybe now I know about their 1 or 2 games being released, but odds are, they were from a big enough studio that I'd be seeing reviews and screenshots and comments plastered all over Steam about the games anyway. The Steam community loves sharing and promoting games they love, and it boggles my mind that a lot of these devs don't see that.
i imagine buying all those exclusives is much cheaper than buying those ads (especially during the events you mentioned)
thought so
plus - if they aren't even willing to buy those for fortnite, they sure as hell won't for games they haven't made
thought so
plus - if they aren't even willing to buy those for fortnite, they sure as hell won't for games they haven't made
Exactly.
Don't need to pay for advertising when your advertisement is a store page on Steam that inevitably gets its date changed to "Coming soon" alongside an EGS exclusive announcement.
Regardless of whether people think Valve should use their clout in the EGS situation or not, and the ramifications on the platform, surely we all agree that they need to put a stop to devs/pubs advertising their game on Valve’s dime before running off to EGS as an exclusive.
At this point what’s happening is devs are peacocking themselves on Steam until Sergey finds wishlist data on the game via has crawlers, and then Epic snaps them up.
Hey, I just thought of something.
So the Samurai Showdown devs basically confirmed the speculation that Epic contracts come in the form of sales guarantees, which is to say that Epic gives you a chunk of cash upfront equivalent to an amount of copies of the game sold, and then you start making more money on top once you get over that amount. Specifically, the language the devs used was "a pre-order of hundreds of thousands."
So if the way Epic is phrasing their exclusivity contracts to devs is in the form of "we will pre-order this many copies of your game," does that mean that their claim of Metro Exodus selling 2.5x as much as Last Light was mostly comprised of the copies they bought?
So the Samurai Showdown devs basically confirmed the speculation that Epic contracts come in the form of sales guarantees, which is to say that Epic gives you a chunk of cash upfront equivalent to an amount of copies of the game sold, and then you start making more money on top once you get over that amount. Specifically, the language the devs used was "a pre-order of hundreds of thousands."
So if the way Epic is phrasing their exclusivity contracts to devs is in the form of "we will pre-order this many copies of your game," does that mean that their claim of Metro Exodus selling 2.5x as much as Last Light was mostly comprised of the copies they bought?
Exactly and I'm sure Valve themselves realize this too. I can't see Valve doing anything about it and will just let devs keep doing as they please. At the very least if I were at Valve I would make a note of it and make their game ineligible for getting the 20% only cut. I would just say that the extra 10% was for advertising now if you meet the goal to quality for the 20% only cut.
Realistically, they don't have to do anything anyway because doing this exact thing just screams "hey, I'm a huge asshole!" now.
Fair point.
And what does it mean for the 500k satisfactory sales?
Pretty much, as crazy as it sounds: doing nothing to not give EGS any kind of extra ammunition might be the right idea. Even more importantly, don't destroy the goodwill of your own userbase.
Tim seriously doesn't understand how important goodwill towards your company is when it comes toward selling stuff to people.
It's irrelevant in the big, cooperation world but not here.
Are there even PC gamers without a steam account? I mean gamers actually buying games.
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"A message from Ys Net, Epic Games and Deep Silver" just appeared in my inbox.
Basically a non-statement. Short of reversing this stupid situation, they should just refund the money of people who don't want an Epic key. And refund people who switched from PC to PS4 to avoid getting an Epic key too.
Quite frankly, if I can get away with it, I want a refund for my whole pledge ("Steam" key and PS4 physical), not just the portion that I feel I'm entitled to ("Steam" key) because this whole thing stinks to high heaven and I want to cost them money.
But failing that, I will sell whatever they send me. I'm sure there are some fans out there who will happily buy a PS4 key and exclusive Kickstarted physical edition and help me recover some of my $130.
Basically a non-statement. Short of reversing this stupid situation, they should just refund the money of people who don't want an Epic key. And refund people who switched from PC to PS4 to avoid getting an Epic key too.
Quite frankly, if I can get away with it, I want a refund for my whole pledge ("Steam" key and PS4 physical), not just the portion that I feel I'm entitled to ("Steam" key) because this whole thing stinks to high heaven and I want to cost them money.
But failing that, I will sell whatever they send me. I'm sure there are some fans out there who will happily buy a PS4 key and exclusive Kickstarted physical edition and help me recover some of my $130.
What can possibly bring back the lost trust?
Everyone with common sense would agree that the way they handled this is atrocious.
Everyone with common sense would agree that the way they handled this is atrocious.
Yeah, there is no trust there anymore. They've just split the community in two and pretty much killed any chance of getting Shenmue 4 off the ground.
In terms of the community, it's a fucking mess right now. We've got fans at each other's throats. Basically, the blind devoted superfans are calling the people upset about this "not true fans" and being very aggressive and angry about it. It's a shame as the fanbase has stuck together through thick and thin, and for Epic to just wade in and ruin that is really devastating on so many levels.
Yes, Shenmue fans were very passionate to defend the series publicly, but they have almost always been a positive voice in an industry that is usually very negative. What Epic and Ys Net have done is basically kill that for good. I hope they're proud of themselves.
In terms of the community, it's a fucking mess right now. We've got fans at each other's throats. Basically, the blind devoted superfans are calling the people upset about this "not true fans" and being very aggressive and angry about it. It's a shame as the fanbase has stuck together through thick and thin, and for Epic to just wade in and ruin that is really devastating on so many levels.
Yes, Shenmue fans were very passionate to defend the series publicly, but they have almost always been a positive voice in an industry that is usually very negative. What Epic and Ys Net have done is basically kill that for good. I hope they're proud of themselves.
Shouldn't "true fans" be the ones mostly against this shit, wanting the best for the game and the best would mean not being moneyhatted.
I think some fans feel the PC version has always been an afterthought, and also think that getting the game made by hook or by crook is the best outcome. In their mind EGS is fine because we should just be grateful it's being made.
It's just short-term thinking though, because if Ys Net had released a game that delighted the 70,000 people who backed this game, those 70,000 people would be back for Shenmue IV.
I think at this point it's clear to everyone with half a brain that the series is dead after this. Reviewers are going to eat it alive, half the fanbase is either pissed off or sympathetic with those who're angry, and the general vibe and consensus around this game is that it looks shit. Plus it's releasing at near full price in the same month as big hitters like Death Stranding, Jedi: Fallen Order and Pokémon Sword and Shield. Add in the fact that a wide gamut of people, ranging from GamerGate types to more evenly-hinged individuals, can all see how fucking shady this whole Kickstarter has been. $7m raised for... that, along with a slap in the face for the PC backers? No one in their right mind is buying this when the alternatives available for a similar price are infinitely more compelling for a multitude of reasons.
It's fucking dead, and the self-proclaimed "true fans" haven't cottoned on to this yet.
It's just short-term thinking though, because if Ys Net had released a game that delighted the 70,000 people who backed this game, those 70,000 people would be back for Shenmue IV.
I think at this point it's clear to everyone with half a brain that the series is dead after this. Reviewers are going to eat it alive, half the fanbase is either pissed off or sympathetic with those who're angry, and the general vibe and consensus around this game is that it looks shit. Plus it's releasing at near full price in the same month as big hitters like Death Stranding, Jedi: Fallen Order and Pokémon Sword and Shield. Add in the fact that a wide gamut of people, ranging from GamerGate types to more evenly-hinged individuals, can all see how fucking shady this whole Kickstarter has been. $7m raised for... that, along with a slap in the face for the PC backers? No one in their right mind is buying this when the alternatives available for a similar price are infinitely more compelling for a multitude of reasons.
It's fucking dead, and the self-proclaimed "true fans" haven't cottoned on to this yet.
The Shenmu 1+2 collection was a good idea to bring in new people to the series. But those two games, as good as they were back then, didn't seem to age well and the hype about 1+2 didn't hold long.
The new shenmu 3 trailer, shown at the epic gaming show, looked very rough indeed. I don't think there is much hype for this product outside of people that fall in love with the series back then.
Now burning them is the worst idea ever.
It's mind-blowing delusional.
The new shenmu 3 trailer, shown at the epic gaming show, looked very rough indeed. I don't think there is much hype for this product outside of people that fall in love with the series back then.
Now burning them is the worst idea ever.
It's mind-blowing delusional.
As someone who uses Steam activity feed often, I absolutely agree on that, a lot of devs really underestimates how important Steam community for promoting your games. I have a lot of friends with different tastes, playing different games, and thanks to this I found a lot of interesting looking titles that even Prudis and Tizoc missed in their great posts, like obscure HOG games or very niche and small indies. And when some of my screenshots become popular, I see tons of people, who are not my friends or don't even have friends in common with me, came and comment under those screens, asking questions about the game or simply saying that it looks good. Steam is a proper social network, dedicated specifically about PC gaming, and it's just another reason why everyone who says that "Steam is just another launcher" just proving that they haven't done any basic research on this topic and their words about PC gaming should not be taken seriously.
TBH I think that Shenmue mail is legitimately sincere.
I can understand how the devs didn't see the backlash coming: not everybody is following EGS as closely as us, and even if they went to read about it, most news site aren't exactly as outraged as us.
And if they are in LA right now, it's really not the best time for them to do any kind of damage control.
I haven't done anything with my reward yet as I'm waiting for them to sort it out one way or the other, and I'm still hopeful they end up doing the whole Phoenix Point approach at least (providing an EGS key now, and a Steam one in 1 year). I'd be up with that, and gladly offload the EGS key to some friends who don't give a fuck about Epic but might want to try Shenmue 3.
I can understand how the devs didn't see the backlash coming: not everybody is following EGS as closely as us, and even if they went to read about it, most news site aren't exactly as outraged as us.
And if they are in LA right now, it's really not the best time for them to do any kind of damage control.
I haven't done anything with my reward yet as I'm waiting for them to sort it out one way or the other, and I'm still hopeful they end up doing the whole Phoenix Point approach at least (providing an EGS key now, and a Steam one in 1 year). I'd be up with that, and gladly offload the EGS key to some friends who don't give a fuck about Epic but might want to try Shenmue 3.
Yeah I can see how the team in Japan doesn't really know much more than Deep Silver coming like "great news! I have tons of money for you and all we have to do is be on EGS for one year, but still PC!"
Metro Exodus and Phoenix Point were huge media stinkers with one of them being tied to their publisher and the other being a KS game. There is no way I can believe anyone in YS.net - even something like a NA community manager - legitimately didn't know this was going to piss people off because that would require the devs to live under an actual rock. What they didn't expect was the magnitude of the backlash and now they're scrambling to find a way to at least mitigate the stupid shit they made in their hubris.
Yeah I agree. Anyone in the games industry should be well aware of whats been going on lately. We are all aware and most of us are just people who buy games and occasionally play games.
I was about to post the same. After the backlash for Metro Exodus, both YS.net and Deep Silver should have known exactly what to expect. Deep Silver doesn't care of course since they are too busy counting Epic's money. But YS.net should have known better.
Also, the "no refunds" thing is probably a contractual deal between Epic and Deep Silver. By moneyhatting games funded by backers, Epic is literally buying users for their store.
The no refund thing is actually probably because, as investors expecting a return, Deep Silver and Shibuya Productions pocketed all the Epic bribe. Ys Net is probably broke after all of this and is shitting itself at the prospect of issuing refunds.
I still want my refund or a PS4 key, though. I’m not even going to give Epic the satisfaction of generating a key for me.
I still want my refund or a PS4 key, though. I’m not even going to give Epic the satisfaction of generating a key for me.
Even if they were completely unaware about the EGS controversies, you'd need to have the naïveté of a newborn child to not expect some people to want to recieve shit they asked in the conditions they paid them for.
I refuse to give people who promised physical copies of a game only to deliver an EGS voucher on a fancy case any benefit of the doubt.
I refuse to give people who promised physical copies of a game only to deliver an EGS voucher on a fancy case any benefit of the doubt.
Yeah, I misworded my thought. I meant that, even if they expect some complaints, imho they might not have expected such a big backlash, and partly it's because of how EGS is misrepresented by the media.
To their defense I didn't think this was gonne be this big either. People are livid.
As I was worrying about EGS exclusivity, I knew it'd cause a complete stink if they went with it.
Remember, Shenmue III at the time was the highest funded videogame on Kickstarter. Factoring in the slacker backer funds for other projects too, it's also the third or fourth largest crowdfunded game ever. As soon as something went horribly wrong and a fraction of those 70,000 backers started kicking up a fuss, it was always gonna be huge. And not just from the backers, but interested onlookers who might've bought it on Steam.
And we're not even factoring in the disappointment among PS4 backers over other issues, like the season pass (that they won't be getting as a backer), or how the game looks like a student project. I have PS4-only friends who regret backing this, given the way they've treated PC fans and driven a wedge in the fanbase.
that's what epic did for the entire PC market .... you now have a shitload of people calling anyone who doesn't just bend over to epic "steam stans" and "whiny crybabies" who don't want to "just click another icon" ... something like that has never happened before within that one market ...
good!
so, I want to point out to the saints row fans what they are getting into with epic and to brace for likely epic shenanigans. Is there an up to date list of things that can help my point on why this is bad for consumers and devs alike?
/r/fuckepic is really getting to him
Chivalry 2 devs are now advertising the Epic Game Store on Steam:
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare :: Chivalry 2 announced
They really have no shame...
That's good.
I mean, Epic and the media are claiming that only a very small but vocal minority dislikes EGS. Yet with every game Epic moneyhats, plenty of fans of these games are outraged.
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare :: Chivalry 2 announced
They really have no shame...
That's good.
I mean, Epic and the media are claiming that only a very small but vocal minority dislikes EGS. Yet with every game Epic moneyhats, plenty of fans of these games are outraged.
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-'Hey boss, we need help with...'
/r/fuckepic is really getting to him
-'Wait a minute, someone called me an asshole on reddit, gotta own them'
Also:
I don't buy the excuse that Ys Net doesnt know about exclusivity deals, how crowfunding works, how PC gaming works, etc.
They working with Deep Silver was a big red flag already. Unless they live under a rock I find highly unlikely that they didnt know about the Mighty No. 9 fiasco.
They should be offering refunds no question asked. After all, don't all devs go to the Epic store for that sweet 88%? I'm sure that everyone will be happy to buy it there.
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I tend to buy and wishlist a lot based on my Steam friend activity. I didn’t even know Starlink was on Steam until I saw a friend purchased it—I believe Kurt Russell. I haven’t purchased it yet, but it’s on my wishlist. Where you at, EGS?
They absolutely don't even know what shame is. I wonder how alive this game will be once the 1 year exclusivity ends, though. 100 players, maybe? 200 if it gets heavily discounted in another 'mega sale'?Chivalry 2 devs are now advertising the Epic Game Store on Steam:
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare :: Chivalry 2 announced
They really have no shame...
/r/fuckepic is really getting to him
I try to not be an ass about any human being... but I hate this face.
I can't tell you how happy I am that Mordhau is a thing, and is more popular than Chivalry ever was.
I also do this a lot. The first thing I do when I login is check the activity feed to see what my friends wishlisted/followed as well as any announcements from the games I follow. During the sales being able to see what my friends list bought is a great way to find hidden gems and other games you otherwise wouldn't ever notice or had completely forgotten. The community feed is an amazing tool.
The Chivalry thing is so weird to me. Like who is this game even for? Torn Banner is run by an asshat and the game wont be able to top Mordhau anyway.
They’re a year too late.
I hope the Mordhau folks are reaping the benefits of this. They timed their release perfectly from what i can tell.
Hahaha wow at that Chivalry things. How does Valve not do anything about something like that? Maybe they are too dev friendly.
I think Valve is still assessing the situation regarding these moneyhats. During the winter we'll start seeing the first wave of Epic's moneyhats hit Steam. If those games sell a lot of copies I don't think Valve will react because they still get the sales even a year later. It will be more interesting to see what happens if these games end up flopping on Steam. In such a case I can see two possible scenarios:
1. The games flop and developers stop accepting Epic's moneyhats. Valve doesn't have to do anything since the problem solved itself.
2. The games flop, Epic pays even more and developers keep accepting the moneyhats. This is the scenario that might result in Valve taking some sort of action to discourage developers from using Steam to promote their games if they don't end up launching on the service.
If it gets pushed by streamers it can be successful. It's no coincidence that the only games that released sales numbers on EGS are streamer-friendly multiplayer or co-op titles.
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Phoenix RISING
A phoenix always RISES!
I wouldn’t even put past UnepicSween to buy 500,000 pre-order copies to boast about sales on Twitter. If this moneyhating is buying up pre-order “keys,” the pubs/devs are way dumber than I expected with all the bad publicity. With all the store issues, are people actually playing the games? After the 12 months, EGS/Sweeney won’t give a shit about them, kick them to the curve, and their reputation is soured for many that will or won’t support them in the future. Yeah, Sween is an asshole... but the greedy ass pubs/devs are just fucking stupid.
The more I think about it the more I think I’m correct. It would make the Exodus situation make so much sense. Epic claims that Exodus sold “2.5x as much” as Last Light did at launch, but that’s an absurd number unless they overshot on their batch pre-orders at the beginning. THQ Nordic’s CEO said in their investor call that Exodus had a “strong start” on PC but eventually tapered off to a disappointing result, and didn’t want to talk about EGS. Phoenix Point investors on Fig saw a return as if the game had sold copies (that they wouldn’t see if they had just been invested in by another party,) and the Samurai Shodown devs are saying that they were promised exclusivity in accordance of “hundreds of thousands of pre-orders.” This would also explain why Epic felt so comfortable putting everything on their store on sale - because they owned the vast majority of the keys.
It’s all speculation, and we’ll likely never see the truth because getting accurate sales data when it’s not legally required in our system is like pulling teeth. But SO MUCH makes sense when you think of it that way. I don’t wanna be a conspiracy theorist but I think I’ve cracked the code.
It’s all speculation, and we’ll likely never see the truth because getting accurate sales data when it’s not legally required in our system is like pulling teeth. But SO MUCH makes sense when you think of it that way. I don’t wanna be a conspiracy theorist but I think I’ve cracked the code.