I think the roots aren't there anymore. I don't think that current Bioware has the drive, the experience or the skill set to make a good cRPG.
News Baldur's Gate III (Larian) - coming to Earrly Access in October 2020
- Thread starter prudis
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Yeah I think you are right, but still, if they were to make an effort it would be by the new people who once we're passionate about crpgs but never got to make one. I mean some people at BioWare has to work there because the history of the company.
I actually think BioWare would benefit from making something smaller in scale and with less emphasis on engine/tech. They keep wasting years of development in pre-production and changing the scope constantly.
Even if there's still staff that can make a good BG, BioWare won't work on a true isometric cRPG until they cut ties with EA, and we don't need 3rd person ARPG in BG setting, that Dark Alliance travesty was enough. The only thing that worries me about Larian is narrative, they aren't great in that department and this is why I would personally prefer a studio like Obsidian to work with a BG property, even if we'd ended up with worse combat mechanics as a result.
I agree about Larian. I think their writing is very average. It's perfectly fine for a video game, but it doesn't stand out to me. I think Obsidian should just license the DOS2 engine, combat system and all, and pump out games using it.
To be fair, Larian can hire Chris Avellone or Drew Karpyshin as narrative designers, both are freelancers at this point.
they already have ... Avellone wrote the entire skeleton character (forgot his name, sorry)
It couldn't have happened to a better company. I'm just not sure Larian has the writing range and I can see them relying on external writers to do this legendary name justice. I'm excited to see what their engine and approach to game design will mean for this series.
I'd just hate to see them limit themselves to retreading the same game design and answers from BG2. They have to innovate and improve for this to be a worthy successor and I'm curious to see what their answer will be.
I'd just hate to see them limit themselves to retreading the same game design and answers from BG2. They have to innovate and improve for this to be a worthy successor and I'm curious to see what their answer will be.
Fane, and it shows. Easily the best character of the game, followed by the Red Prince imo.they already have ... Avellone wrote the entire skeleton character (forgot his name, sorry)
One or two good characters or quests doesn't elevate a game's writing enough to overlook what is wrong with it, unfortunately. That's why these freelance writers stand out so much in the games they work on. Hire them to come up with a full story outline for the game and it would be worth getting excited for.
For what is worth i found DOS 2 story superior to the one of Andromeda with better developed characters than the failed bioware game.
But i trust Larian on this and i really think they ll get all the help they need from the FR writers if they ask for it. Assuming no FR writer is involved in this project.
But i trust Larian on this and i really think they ll get all the help they need from the FR writers if they ask for it. Assuming no FR writer is involved in this project.
Yeah I think it's true that Larian isn't that strong in the main quest department. I did two full playthroughs of Original Sin 2 and I honestly can't remember the details of the main plot. I can recall various places, characters and battles but for the life of me I can't nail down any plot details.
All I remember is that it's about the godwoken and the power of the source. But yeah, I get what you're saying. I think it's something that sets JRPG apart from CRPG. I've played most of the popular CRPGs in the market, but JRPGs are far more memorable for me. There are various reasons for this. First, there's very little expression and gesture in CRPGs. It's mostly expressed in the texts, or voiced by the narrator. But that doesn't left much impression compared to what you usually get in JRPGs where you can see lots of actions in cutscenes and such. Speaking of which, it's the most important requirement for a memorable story for me. Yes, there are "cutscenes" too in CRPG, but it's still the same old people standing around and chatting while you're reading the texts. There's nothing that can differentiate between special story beats and regular conversations in CRPG. Meanwhile, even an old ass JRPG like FFVII have impactful cutscenes like this:
Yes, most CRPG devs probably don't have the budget to pull something like that. But even so, mid-tier JRGPs still can do something like conversation scenes where the characters are so full of expressions, as well as cutscenes (CG/anime) where the characters pull of some cool actions and stuff (Look at Star Ocean/Tales of series for example). Or if you need a much lower budget example, just take a look at Trails series. The game has no voice over, but they managed to bring the characters alive with all the gestures, portrait animation, and playing with the texts.
CRPGs are still so far behind when it comes to this.
I dunno, it's a style over substance mate. FF can have 20 dramatic CGs for every 10 hours of gameplay and still be far more forgettable than PS:T or VtM:B. If a game has a good story and characters it'll be memorable regardless of presentation, if the game is a trash fire it won't be elevated just because it has a few nice cutscenes or animated sprites/skits.
Those are also ancient games, and Vampire is exactly why cutscenes and character expressions are important. Those help bringing the characters alive and close to the players. DA Origins is one of the well-regarded CRPGs, and now imagine if it was still isometric and lacking cutscenes like Neverwinter Nights. Would it still receive the same reception from people? The battle of Ostagar felt so massive and memorable due to those aspects. Totally not possible without.
To add, mediocre JRPG writers and developers can still bring out memorable story and characters. Mainly due to the help of cutscenes and character interactions.
I dunno. I think it might just be a specific game problem. I couldn't tell you the plot of FFXIII and it had tons of cutscenes. I could tell you the plot to Baldur's Gate, Ultima 7, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout, Torment, etc...All I remember is that it's about the godwoken and the power of the source. But yeah, I get what you're saying. I think it's something that sets JRPG apart from CRPG. I've played most of the popular CRPGs in the market, but JRPGs are far more memorable for me. There are various reasons for this. First, there's very little expression and gesture in CRPGs. It's mostly expressed in the texts, or voiced by the narrator. But that doesn't left much impression compared to what you usually get in JRPGs where you can see lots of actions in cutscenes and such. Speaking of which, it's the most important requirement for a memorable story for me. Yes, there are "cutscenes" too in CRPG, but it's still the same old people standing around and chatting while you're reading the texts. There's nothing that can differentiate between special story beats and regular conversations in CRPG. Meanwhile, even an old ass JRPG like FFVII have impactful cutscenes like this:
Yes, most CRPG devs probably don't have the budget to pull something like that. But even so, mid-tier JRGPs still can do something like conversation scenes where the characters are so full of expressions, as well as cutscenes (CG/anime) where the characters pull of some cool actions and stuff (Look at Star Ocean/Tales of series for example). Or if you need a much lower budget example, just take a look at Trails series. The game has no voice over, but they managed to bring the characters alive with all the gestures, portrait animation, and playing with the texts.
CRPGs are still so far behind when it comes to this.
I think it's probably a matter of personal taste.
I know more than a few people who consider DA:O substantially worse than NWN, especially Mask of Betrayer. It's a personal taste, Zestiria is trash no matter the number of (optional) conversations the characters can have Anachronox is still awesome even with its awful animation that can only make you hate the game.
Yeah, that's what I said from the beginning, that's just my opinion.
I do agree that story telling with lots of texts, static portraits, and people standing around is still a viable way. But it's also pretty hard to pull off as you need the very best of talents to produce something like that. That's the very reason why every CRPG devs nowadays ask Chris Avellone to write their games.
Exactly, Larian is one of the last devs I'd expect to sign exclusivity deals. I would be very, very disappointed if that would happen.
Looks like we are definitely getting something today.
When the first Baldur's Gate released in late 1998, I sacrificed my guaranteed A in Chemistry in my final year in High school to play the game during the holiday break for 10-15 hours a day instead of doing my project work. I never turned the project in (I told my teacher I was "unable to finish it" and got a F for that - I had never started any work on that due to BG).
Still got a B in Chemisty that year and was able to play BG for 10 days straight, so it was worth it. Baldur's Gate will always have a special place in my heart.
Still got a B in Chemisty that year and was able to play BG for 10 days straight, so it was worth it. Baldur's Gate will always have a special place in my heart.
The first week of June has been pretty awesome with that tweet, Microsoft putting their games on Steam and Destiny 2 going free to play and coming to Steam.
I'm extremely hyped for this, especially since co-op is confirmed.
Yeah I'm really curious why this is. Chances are very high that Epic tried to moneyhat this game. Perhaps exclusivity and/or giving a free game is a requirement to release on EGS? So far, Vampire 2 has been one of the few exceptions of this rule...
I don't get all that excited for games this far ahead of their releases these days but this one definitely got me. It has been the perfect storm of a great dev, great series and now all of the news that it won't be locked down to any one place.
I am also curious if Epic is trying to establish an exclusive hegemony on PC and Larian said they would pass.
Kudos to them. Because BGIII going exclusive would be something akin to a deathnail for PC gaming. BGII, to this day, is a 10/10 cRPG. Emphasis on the "C."
It's like a flagship reason to play PC games.
Seeing it go exclusive would be...unfathomable.
I also normally do not get excited, but it's flippin BALDUR'S GATE III!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #94
updated the OP with the infos
Confirming co-op out of the gate is fucking awesome. I still haven't played D:OS2 co-op despite meaning to from the start. I'd love to try this that way. It's almost a cool harkening back the Neverwinter Nights games in a way.
I know you could do co-op in the Infinity Engine, but I never played that way. It wasn't until NWN that I got way into D&D co-op outside of actual pen-and-paper D&D.
I know you could do co-op in the Infinity Engine, but I never played that way. It wasn't until NWN that I got way into D&D co-op outside of actual pen-and-paper D&D.
Baldur's Gate 3
Gather your party, and return to the Forgotten Realms in a tale of fellowship and b
Hey don't forgot GOG!