News Epic Games Store

warp_

タコベルが大好き
Apr 18, 2019
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tim being the one to start this really is a nugget of poop on a potentially lovely ice cream sundae. it feels like a "fuck them both" situation but it'd be much better for everyone if apple lost in court heh.
 

warp_

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Apr 18, 2019
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apple and google (as well as sony/ms/nintendo) are the sole operators of all monetary transactions on their devices and only suppliers of digitial goods and subscriptions.

it's exactly the thing tim was doomsaying ms was going to do to pc with the ms store...and it does seem it's what tim wants now for pc via his own store but again, that's why it's shitty that epic is the one to potentially kick this off.
 
Dec 5, 2018
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Ah, there it is.
Is Jason "Billionaires shouldn't exist" Schreier saying that money will trickle down?

Imagine if MS and Google are going to follow Apple and ban Fortnite? I assume together it would be 70% of their playerbase, if not more.
MS isn't gonna do that. Google could but I'm not really sure if that breaks the PlayStore ToS.

Anyway now I want to see how this develops, but it's all so weird,
 

Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
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it baffles me how a person as intelligent as Jason can’t see this straight
He can. He just has a motivation not to admit to a viewpoint which does not promote the moneyhatting of developpers - his friends - for the benefit of being sold on a platform. You can see the prior tone of his relationship with people with whom he should have had a professional distance with his spat involving Barlog and Druckmann. The boundary between them should have been a lot further than it appeared to be.

The whole thing has been about making divas out of a few winners at the expense of everyone else, balkanizing the platform in the process.
 

Ge0force

Excluding exclusives
Jan 12, 2019
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Belgium

Rosenkrantz

Once Punched Man
Apr 22, 2019
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Jason defends all the devs, unless it's Valve and their company wide trips, in which case fuck the devs.

But yeah, not really related, but I kinda weird out by the fact that the only "investigative journalist" in gaming doesn't pursue potentially huge news like Sony, MS and Nintendo possibly manufacturing their consoles using a slave labour from Xinjiang.
 

warp_

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ISee

Oh_no!
Mar 1, 2019
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It would be fair if Epic would be interested to sell Fortnite on the apple store and their own epic apple store. But may I all remind you of the EGS and that Tim isn't interested in fairness or open systems. He is only interested in being the next big thing and building a monopoly for himself.
All I see here is two multi billion cooperations fighting for the right to dictate, and not brave Epic fighting for anything costumer related.
 

Alextended

Segata's Disciple
Jan 28, 2019
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So, Epic lawsuit against Apple, think they'll fall on their face? That seems pretty definite, who's gonna rule against Apple (and will Apple pull the spin that they're all American while Epic is heavily Chinese owned, I guess it depends on the timing of the trials if it gets there and the climate then)? Plus they're in the right. Epic enabled direct payments in Fortnite on the app store circumventing the 30% fee Apple gets and clearly did so deliberately, against the rules they knew are in place, just to set all this in motion (pretending they're fighting for no fee for everybody when they'd obviously happily accept being the exception to the rule, which Apple didn't fall for granting as more companies would then ask the same). Idk. Maybe they have a case on Apple cos Apple doesn't allow installing apps outside the store, it's the only way, unlike Android where sure, you pay fees in the play store, but you can also just release the game on your site or wherever, even make your own store, and pay no fees (and they still wanted special treatment to actually be on the play store and pay no fees). So it's gonna be a monopoly case deal but then Apple has a case in that they don't have a monopoly in say, phones, tablets, etc, just a decent chunk of the market. And even if Epic wins the solution could be that Apple also allows installing apps outside the store, rather than force them to have no fees on the App Store. Epic wouldn't be happy with that, just as they wanted other things on Android (and it will probably take ages for most consumers to start installing stuff from other sources).
 
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TioChuck

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Dec 31, 2018
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As I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong, they have no basis to sue Google because apps can be installed outside of the Play Store on Android.
 
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Prodigy

Sleeper must awaken
Dec 9, 2018
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Have they also given the option to buy directly from Epic themselves on xbox/PS4 and Switch with the latest update?
 

warp_

タコベルが大好き
Apr 18, 2019
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fwiw epic is also arguing that the play store policies are also stifling competition

Third, Apple’s anti-competitive conduct in the iOS App Distribution and iOS In-App Payment Processing Markets does not incentivize consumers to purchase a non-iOS mobile device because Google engages in similar anti-competitive conduct. As noted, nearly 100% of all mobile devices run either Apple’s iOS or Google’s Android OS. Further, more than 90% of app downloads on Android OS devices occur through the Google Play Store—Google’s app store.

Like Apple, Google uses its market power over the Android operating system, and similar anti-competitive practices, to stifle competition for the distribution of apps on Android, to require that developers use its payment processing system for in-app purchases of in-app content, and to charge a similar exorbitant 30% tax. Thus, to the extent that consumers even attempt to lifecycle price when purchasing mobile devices, or want to look for an app store that doesn’t charge exorbitant fees, Apple’s anti-competitive conduct described herein would not cause consumers to favor Android devices.
 

toxicitizen

MetaMember
Oct 24, 2018
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Challenging Apple is a good thing but I just don't have it in me to root for Epic lol. Hopefully, they'll both waste each other's time and money.

Hell, Epic should dig into their exclusive deal funds to finance their lawsuit! This is clearly more important than silly videogames. :upside-down-face:
 
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Swenhir

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Apr 18, 2019
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I have to say, their Fortnite revenue taking a nosedive means they have less money to waste on Exclusivity bullshit which is good news in my book.

I don't like those walled gardens but seeing Epic taken down a peg after Sweeney's hypocritical grandstanding is unfortunately enjoyable
 

Trisolarian

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Jul 12, 2019
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Apologies to anyone I offend



But I am ready to devote myself.
'And on the 13th Day, he bid the gamers to rid their apples, as such a device that tempted eve in the garden, and join him. For he had shown them the way to a kingdom free of walls of the serpent, free to spend forever and ever, amen'
 
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Doctor Ironic

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Mar 18, 2019
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Okay, big news gets a big post. Sorry.

One problem I have with the rhetoric around this issue is this idea that it's bad vs. worse and that Epic are good guys compared to Apple. Apple sucks, but people are so blinded by that that they don't look at the big picture, which is that Epic is doing this because they want to become Apple, and an even worse version of them. Apple uses literal slave labor, but let Epic start making hardware and we'll see how they feel about the Uighurs. They're already 40% owned by Tencent after all!

The other argument appears to be that getting rid of the 30% cut is good no matter who's fighting for it. When I see this argument, I'm reminded of those liberals who are cozying up with The Lincoln Project. It DOES matter who's fighting for it, absolutely, because when you say this, you are indeed taking a side. You're taking Epic's side, because you are trusting the other multi billion dollar corporation to keep their word. Epic has shown no intention of following through on promises like that. They won't let indie devs on the EGS at all if they won't sign exclusivity contracts or otherwise don't think they'll take market share away from Steam (see: Assault Android Cactus, DARQ, Skatebird.) The lawsuit Epic filed may claim that they're looking for a new standard to apply to everyone, but again, if you think that's the truth then you actually are taking a side while acting like you're not. Epic's behavior has shown us they're only out for number one, and anyone worth their salt in even just following the news knows that lawsuits are rarely meant for actual legal battles - they're threats you hope to get settlements out of because the people you're suing admit you have a point and want you to shut up about it. Once Epic gets a settlement out of the deal, it all goes away, and suddenly the "good company" indies thought had their back instantly vanishes.

We here in this thread have been over, several times, how the 12% cut of the EGS is bullshit - for several reasons including lack of platform features compared to other platforms that take larger cuts and foreign transaction fees. Epic themselves have admitted it's unsustainable. Why should we expect any other store to follow suit? Why are we switching positions on this all of the sudden? Because the other team was, at one point, Apple (but is now a conglomerate of several tech companies?)

It's unbelievable how perfect the timing of this worked out for Epic. Because Apple were the first to respond, and because Epic anticipated that would happen, they were able to release that short as a live event in the game and focus the hate on Apple despite Google, Spotify, and other tech companies all following suit with Apple's position literally just hours later. This entire campaign is only working because Epic is able to frame it as Epic vs. Apple and not Epic vs. Basically Every Other Company That Sells Digital Services. Make no mistake, if Epic's gambit here pulls off even a moderate success, they're coming after Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo next. I wouldn't expect them to stay quiet on this for long.

This is just an extension of the already-existing EGS debate - to argue in favor of Epic here is to alleviate pain short-term only to utterly fuck yourself in the future. Epic is not doing this to break up monopolies, they are doing because they want to be the only monopoly for everything. If they really actually wanted developers to be chasing their own futures, they'd be supplying the tools for every dev to be making their own storefront that they'd all take 100% revenue shares from - but they all want it on the EGS, for both desktop and mobile.

Strategically, I think Epic may have fucked up here. It really all hinges on how much they can play this as a fight solely against Apple when the reality is that every digital distributor, in EVERY INDUSTRY, who isn't Epic doesn't want this to happen. This play ONLY works against Apple because they're already a negatively-perceived company in general (and rightfully so, don't get me wrong) and would immediately fall apart if they tried it against any of the console manufacturers. If the Big Three throw their hat in Apple's side, which they very well may, this whole thing instantly implodes. Fortnite will probably still survive even after the maximum cringe they exhibited today, but... who knows. I've seen crazier things happen.

Anyways, fuck Epic.
 

NarohDethan

There was a fish in the percolator!
Apr 6, 2019
8,942
24,801
113
Okay, big news gets a big post. Sorry.

One problem I have with the rhetoric around this issue is this idea that it's bad vs. worse and that Epic are good guys compared to Apple. Apple sucks, but people are so blinded by that that they don't look at the big picture, which is that Epic is doing this because they want to become Apple, and an even worse version of them. Apple uses literal slave labor, but let Epic start making hardware and we'll see how they feel about the Uighurs. They're already 40% owned by Tencent after all!

The other argument appears to be that getting rid of the 30% cut is good no matter who's fighting for it. When I see this argument, I'm reminded of those liberals who are cozying up with The Lincoln Project. It DOES matter who's fighting for it, absolutely, because when you say this, you are indeed taking a side. You're taking Epic's side, because you are trusting the other multi billion dollar corporation to keep their word. Epic has shown no intention of following through on promises like that. They won't let indie devs on the EGS at all if they won't sign exclusivity contracts or otherwise don't think they'll take market share away from Steam (see: Assault Android Cactus, DARQ, Skatebird.) The lawsuit Epic filed may claim that they're looking for a new standard to apply to everyone, but again, if you think that's the truth then you actually are taking a side while acting like you're not. Epic's behavior has shown us they're only out for number one, and anyone worth their salt in even just following the news knows that lawsuits are rarely meant for actual legal battles - they're threats you hope to get settlements out of because the people you're suing admit you have a point and want you to shut up about it. Once Epic gets a settlement out of the deal, it all goes away, and suddenly the "good company" indies thought had their back instantly vanishes.

We here in this thread have been over, several times, how the 12% cut of the EGS is bullshit - for several reasons including lack of platform features compared to other platforms that take larger cuts and foreign transaction fees. Epic themselves have admitted it's unsustainable. Why should we expect any other store to follow suit? Why are we switching positions on this all of the sudden? Because the other team was, at one point, Apple (but is now a conglomerate of several tech companies?)

It's unbelievable how perfect the timing of this worked out for Epic. Because Apple were the first to respond, and because Epic anticipated that would happen, they were able to release that short as a live event in the game and focus the hate on Apple despite Google, Spotify, and other tech companies all following suit with Apple's position literally just hours later. This entire campaign is only working because Epic is able to frame it as Epic vs. Apple and not Epic vs. Basically Every Other Company That Sells Digital Services. Make no mistake, if Epic's gambit here pulls off even a moderate success, they're coming after Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo next. I wouldn't expect them to stay quiet on this for long.

This is just an extension of the already-existing EGS debate - to argue in favor of Epic here is to alleviate pain short-term only to utterly fuck yourself in the future. Epic is not doing this to break up monopolies, they are doing because they want to be the only monopoly for everything. If they really actually wanted developers to be chasing their own futures, they'd be supplying the tools for every dev to be making their own storefront that they'd all take 100% revenue shares from - but they all want it on the EGS, for both desktop and mobile.

Strategically, I think Epic may have fucked up here. It really all hinges on how much they can play this as a fight solely against Apple when the reality is that every digital distributor, in EVERY INDUSTRY, who isn't Epic doesn't want this to happen. This play ONLY works against Apple because they're already a negatively-perceived company in general (and rightfully so, don't get me wrong) and would immediately fall apart if they tried it against any of the console manufacturers. If the Big Three throw their hat in Apple's side, which they very well may, this whole thing instantly implodes. Fortnite will probably still survive even after the maximum cringe they exhibited today, but... who knows. I've seen crazier things happen.

Anyways, fuck Epic.
I wouldnt be surprised if theres an EpicBoxStation soon lol
Honestly I don’t expect a US court siding with Epic, a company with a Chinese company backing, over two of the biggest American corporations out there.
 
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