News Epic Games Store
- Thread starter Blizniak
- Start date
I mean, 0% of 2 million players isn't 0 players without decimals in that stat. I assume that's why the % was used.
It can be like less than 18k people, right? Or would it mean you have to round up to 1% rather than down to 0%?
Less than 10k people in that case, to be lower than 0.5% so that it rounds down to 0%. Enough to "have players".
It can be like less than 18k people, right? Or would it mean you have to round up to 1% rather than down to 0%?
Less than 10k people in that case, to be lower than 0.5% so that it rounds down to 0%. Enough to "have players".
Last edited:
Maybe people caught on that Borderlands is overhyped ¯\(ツ)/¯
Heh , Talos freebie is just a base game and the DLC is not available in the store 
The 0% figure seemed suspect to me, but I guess if we're only talking in absolute percentages then 0% could signify a figure below whatever decimal that they're rounding up from, if they're rounding up from any figures at all.
Regardless, even if only ~20k people are playing it on the regular that's not a horrendous figure for 2m sales, but I expect Borderlands 2 did not suffer as big a decline from its peak of ~124k as Borderlands 3 has from double of that.
I just assumed that the number was between 0% and 10%, so it could be 1,000s or 10,000s. I doubt that person would give an exact number since you need to subscribe to the patreon in order to view the percentage.
Maybe. Honestly, between BL3 and Destiny 2, imo the choice should be obvious. Why shell out more money when you can play a banger like that for free.
Of course, but regardless they don’t seem to have gone very heavy into the MTX cosmetics game with seasonal events, weeklies/dailies and other stuff to incentivize returning to it on a regular basis. If their strategy was a live game, it was bound to encounter a precipitous drop off regardless.
Last edited:
I think it's pretty bad for a BL game but I don't have stats for BL2 drop off after the first month or whatever. Those didn't have crazy dlc schemes afaik to expect 3 to have them, just decent content stuff. But that doesn't mean a (sh)looter that isn't a full on mtx hell is also meant to be played and dropped like a rock either.
Heh , Talos freebie is just a base game and the DLC is not available in the store
Honestly, Road to Gehenna is very inferior to the main game, too many gimmicks instead of solid level design.
So what do you guys think? Will Epic continue giving out free games in 2020?
I'm convinced thy will, it's the only effective way to gain goodwill and users for their store, and it will heavily damage Steam because people will wait for indie games to become free instead of buying them.
I'm convinced thy will, it's the only effective way to gain goodwill and users for their store, and it will heavily damage Steam because people will wait for indie games to become free instead of buying them.
As someone who extensively played both game, there's nothing in Destiny 2 that BL 3 isnt utterly trashing outside of raids. Objectively the only good part of D2 is Forsaken
About BL3 retention rate, I am not surprised given how badly they fucked the GAAS element of the game. The Halloween event which was not very well received lasted months.
Gunplay is much better in D2. Gun variety and loot isnt, but man does it feel better tl shoot in D2
Oh they absolutely will. Get ready for repeating games
I agree they will, but I don't agree that it's going to damage steam anymore than it already has, nor indies in general. It's been, what, 50% of the games they gave away were already bundle fodder?
I mean, that is what they tried to become, with more events and shit. Turns out Gearbox has no idea how to make events on time so...
I tried Blands 3 on Xbox free weekend. As someone who really enjoyed Blands 2, Blands 3 was bland and dull. Im getting it on Steam in april as I wanna play it with better performance, but what I played on Xbox, it felt like Blands 2.5.
Not even a doubt in my mind. It has by far been the most effective way to get people on the service, significantly more so than the exclusives.
As someone who extensively played both games, Borderlands 3 is a continuation of 2’s idea that more health = harder and every fight is an unfun slog where you empty an entire mag into every bad guy before they die. Destiny has more fun and more creative guns, better missions and challenges, cooler quests, and is better in every single way. There’s absolutely nothing in Borderlands like The Whisper or Zero Hour. Oh, and the writing doesn’t make you wanna take pliers to your teeth.
Borderlands is absolutely Games as a Service. Just because it doesn’t require a constant internet connection doesn’t mean it’s not one. If a game has a season pass, it’s GaaS.
It doesn't require you to have an internet connection, it doesn't have shared worlds spaces outside of coop, doesn't have a hub, it doesn't have a content roadmap, it can be paused when played in single player, doesn't have ANY MTX, has split screen and it doesn't even have pvp outside duels
Strictly don't think that games getting regularly dlcs overtime are Gaas in the slightest, that's absolutely not what the model is lmao
Destiny has some of the above, makes you buy a content pass for every single expansion and has MTX. A mmo by essence is a gaas too
It couldn't be further from BL 2.5 when it comes down to the gameplay itself. However the questing / pacing is outdated in terms of design, can't argue with that
That's utterly false btw, same about your gun variety argument. You can have one gun declined in many variations thanks to the gun parts alone in BL 3, as well as the elemental variations and the anointments. The base damage also is changing depending of the affixes.
Borderlands is an actual rpg where you need to make your build coincide with the guns you're using if you wanna one shot stuff. Its completely possible, even in Mayhem 4
Last edited:
So it's a worthless term because every game is gaas, from online pvp constantly updated phenomenons like Fortnite to single player RPGs like The Witcher 3?
If that's all you meant then okay, I don't care to argue the definition at this moment, I just meant that the Borderlands strategy in the past has been different to stuff like Fortnite in that it offered wealth and breadth of content with the base game and meaty expansions on top. Even if it actually had a constant stream of mtx I could ignore inbetween expansions I wouldn't call it the same style at all. There's a difference between games that try to keep you engaged only with such tactics and events and games that try to keep you engaged with their actual content like Diablo II and BL2. None of those games were meant to be played a few hours or even once through and then forgotten, their appeal came from playability and replayability for hours upon hours. Hell, if Diablo II did have a season pass that gave you an expansion or two and some filler shit inbetween and seasonal events I wouldn't put it in the same sentence as the average gaas game. Anyway, I was saying BL3 faltered in player retention, if it is or isn't GAAS, if you compare it to Diablo II or Overwatch it's done worse if the stats are true.
Last edited:
BL3 has mtx and has tried to have events commonly to try and keep you enganged and continue playing it. A GAAS doesnt have to be an always online game, asyou can see how Paradox games are all GAAS.
Ok, everything is gaas, wrpgs, 4x, grand strategy, fortnite, overwatch, I just said what I said, I don't care for those definitions, might as well argue what an rpg is.
I mean, Paradox games are GAAS. Paradox itself says so iself. The idea of GAAS is that the base game is not as important as it is just a platform for more content and that the gross of the money will be made along the life of the game by other means (such as DLC or mtx). If your base game is just a way to keep people playing but your intention is to keep them in the loop to make more money by other methods, you are a GAAS.
The thing is... perception. Sure, 50% is bundle fodder "trash", but consumers know that Epic has deep pockets and they already gave away some heavy-hitters, so it is not unbelievable that consumers will think that Epic will continue to do so. For every 10 mediocre or bad games, there could be another Celeste or two.
Do you guys remember the early 2000's, where the gaming magazines gave away full games every month (a last hurrah, retrospectively). I didn't have much money at that time and the "free" (plus the magazine cost) games were a godsend. Man, I played some shit games at that time, but it was basically the only gaming spending I did in those years. I couldn't afford full price games (or rather the free games negated my habit to save up for months to pay for one full price game).
And I got some great games out of it that I would have never bought full-price. Like Hearts of Iron 2, which made me a Paradox fan, and XBTF/X2 which made me an Egosoft fan.
Like I said previously. If devs fear that people won't buy their game because customers will think it will be free on EGS or Gamepass, they should pledge that their game won't be bundled or free for the next x years.
If we go by what companies say, BL3 isn't gaas.
There was also free Deus Ex, Warcraft II and others with magazines. Usually older stuff obviously. But getting such (modern-ish at the time!) classics was great.
Though again I specifically mentioned BL2 in my posts, I've not played 3 but it doesn't look radically different, events or no events.
There was also free Deus Ex, Warcraft II and others with magazines. Usually older stuff obviously. But getting such (modern-ish at the time!) classics was great.
Last edited:
I am unsure what you want to say?
I agree. There is no doubt that Most Paradox developed games are GaaS.
Only the length of the support through DLC is a fluid state on what counts as a GaaS and what not. Open-end DLC Support like Paradox? Gaas. A season pass with an end to released DLC after 1 or 2 years? No GaaS.
Early 2000's?
It was the peak of the Gaming Magazines (in Germany) Sure, there are still free games in magazines, but the magazines itself are not influential anymore, they lost like 90% to 95% of their circulation.
The difference between a game as a service and a normal game is that juridically speaking you actually pay to access the service which can be modified at will.
You never "own" the game if that makes sense. So if you actually buy a game that keeps getting dlcs, which you ACTUALLY own, it ain't a gaas.
There's a blurry line between what fundamentally makes a software a service, and its perceptible model that some devs are embracing because they're more attractive for the customers (the continuously updated one for instance).
Most people on forums keep tossing the gaas term because of some crossed boxes regarding a familiar pattern
What I linked was Rocket League's tos, compare it with Witcher 3's
Last edited:
I would think GaaS mirrors Software-as-a-service, which is pretty clear cut right now. Azure and (new) Photoshop are SaaS, anything you can buy outright without worry of a service interruption is not. I know Paradox says their games are GaaS but they wouldn't meet my definition of it, not only because each piece you just buy but also because they do not require always-online (which I personally think is the only blurry line in GaaS). If you can buy a game outright but it requires online connectivity (multiplayer only or stupid DRM) that's a grey definition area for sure.
Ooh. So we have a chance at the new Yooka. Team17 isn't afraid of putting a new game up, they did it with Automachef on Twitch Prime.
This response:
(I'll keep your data safe)
This response:
(I'll keep your data safe)
Last edited:
GaaS and SaaS are fundamentally the same thing except one crucial detail. SaaS is usually rented, you buy a licence for the base software which has to be renewed in order to keep using it (usually it's yearly based), while GaaS is a one time fee (in 99% of the cases, the only exception is subscription based MMOs).
Apart from it both behave the same way. The base software is used for it's purpose (game, video or image edition, etc) on top of also being used as a storefront for additional content/modules/add-ons for the base software.
Being online-only, single or multiplayer has nothing to do with a game being GaaS or otherwise.
If we disregard MMOs, for obvious reasons, the first game I remember
edit: clarified my last sentence
Last edited:
You might be the only person ever to call Dragon Age Origins a gaas then. You're down to semantics and technicalities, ie, Diablo II (or any game ever with an expansion) isn't gass, but if there had been the ability to have an NPC inside that selling you Lords of Destruction (or whatever expansion elsewhere) it would be. Or even just a menu. Does the Steam overlay in any game makes it gaas because that's a store interface and it can be in the game and even buy all its DLC? Especially if it's a game only available through Steam (or other platforms with store overlays)? Where do the semantics end and real world applications of the terms begin? Gaas is meant to evoke fundamentally different design decisions that affect a game down to its core in ways games that aren't gaas aren't affected, not like any game can be gaas if only they patch in a button allowing you to buy the later expansions and DLC you otherwise buy from a store or like a purely and obviously gaas game suddenly isn't so if instead of in-game the purchases are done on the platform's overlay like any other game instead. Meh.
Last edited:
Ooh. So we have a chance at the new Yooka. Team17 isn't afraid of putting a new game up, they did it with Automachef on Twitch Prime.
This response:
(I'll keep your data safe)
"Epic is showering us in free games, so we should be fine with their scummy money hatting behavior"
I don’t even know where to begin, you clearly didn’t actually “extensively play” Destiny if you think it didn’t had “actual RPG” elements and that your build didn’t matter. I guess we’re just ignoring Melting Point with shotgun that’s rolled Trench Barrel, or Hunters using Way of a Thousand Knives with One-Two Punch guns, or the fact that the best DPS in the game right now is achieved witha Titan using Ward of Dawn, a Warlock using Lunafaction Boots, and everyone with Izanagi’s Burden.
Borderlands absolutely has microtransactions in the form of its costume packs. Just because you don’t buy them in an in-game shop, and have to back out and get them through PSN or XBL instead, doesn’t mean they’re not microtransactions. They’re cosmetics with a small fee attached. What do you call that?
It’s not a worthless term, it’s a consistently misused one because people keep using “GaaS” like it’s some kind of genre of game. It’s not, it’s a monetization method, and yes, any game that is designed around monetizing itself by retaining a player base by continually adding content absolutely qualifies as GaaS. Borderlands 3 will likely receive content and updates for the next year or so because it wants a dedicated fan base that will continue to buy DLC, which has a significantly better return on expenses than the base game does. Payday 2 did not require an internet connection and did not have a persistent world, but put out monthly DLC and updates and kept itself alive for four years because of a dedicated base of players (even if it sucked.) GaaS is specifically referring to a marketing strategy where games compete to become the one game you play all the time, so you’ll continue to invest in it on DLC or microtransactions that have a WAY bigger ratio of profit to new content than releasing a new $60 sequel every year.
Borderlands only doesn’t count as GaaS if you think the only GaaS games are MMOs.
Borderlands 3 just like Borderlands 2 will easily have over 40 pieces of DLC to sell.
It's a GaaS and this is not a debate.
It's a GaaS and this is not a debate.
So what's the magic number that makes something gaas? 40?
What if BL2 had flopped and it only got 2 DLC as a result? It would not be gaas? Was Battleborn not gaas?
What if it only got the DLC due to its success rather than as an intent before release? Gaas anyway?
Everybody who is in agreement actually has been providing a completely different argument and explanation btw, but as you all agree you don't comment on it.
What if BL2 had flopped and it only got 2 DLC as a result? It would not be gaas? Was Battleborn not gaas?
What if it only got the DLC due to its success rather than as an intent before release? Gaas anyway?
Everybody who is in agreement actually has been providing a completely different argument and explanation btw, but as you all agree you don't comment on it.
Last edited:
You don't own shit either way .
From GOG's terms of service "2.1 We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a 'licence') to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This licence is for your personal use. We can stop or suspend this licence in some situations, which are explained later on. "
This is just a less verbose version of "
(7) END USER LICENSE
ALL PSYONIX SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. Such software includes the Psyonix game software that Psyonix provides to you for download and installation (“Games”).
Subject to your compliance with these Terms, Psyonix hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited and revocable right and license to install and use one (1) copy of each Game solely and exclusively for your personal and non-commercial use for gameplay on a single game system (e.g., computer, mobile device, or gaming console) that you own or control or, if you obtained the Game through the PlayStation Network (“PSN”), then on a system to which the Game is delivered by the PSN. For clarity, the foregoing does not prohibit you from installing and using an additional copy of each Game on a different game system. These Terms shall also apply to any patches or updates you may obtain for the Games. DUPLICATION, COPYING OR ANY FORM OF REPRODUCTION OF THE GAMES OR RELATED INFORMATION, MATERIALS OR OTHER CONTENT TO ANY OTHER SERVER OR LOCATION FOR THE PURPOSES OF DUPLICATION, COPYING OR ANY OTHER FORM OF REPRODUCTION IS, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSIBLE BY LAW, EXPRESSLY AND EXPLICITLY PROHIBITED. Your use of any of the Games is governed by Psyonix’s End User License Agreement (End User License Agreement).
" from Psyonix.
Also, from Witcher 3's EULA
"
2. WHAT YOU GET WITH THE GAME
We (meaning CD PROJEKT RED) give you the personal right (called a 'licence' legally) to download, install and play The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt on your personal computer as long as you follow these Rules. This licence is for your personal use only (so you can't give a sublicense to someone else) and doesn't give you ownership rights.
At all times we continue to own all of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, all in-game content, any updates or additional content for them, manuals or other materials about them and the intellectual property rights in them, including all copyright, trademarks, patents and legal things like that (all of this together we call the ‘Game’).
"
If you're constantly releasing a shitload of skins and in-game items throughout the years of your game, yes, it's darn GaaS.
And correct, it would not be a GaaS if it was a flop and only had 2 DLC.... like this is not a hard concept. Like, Rocket League is GaaS now, but it sure as fuck it wasn't at launch, it only became like that after becoming very sucessful and changing around their content schedule. If the game flopped and was dead after one month of course it wouldn't be a GaaS. Again, this isn't hard.
So now that we have a Borderlands 2 GOTY with all (most!) DLC, it's not gaas, it's only gaas if you bought another edition and piecemeal dlc. So the user's own decisions actually dictate what the game is. So I guess I've never played a gaas since I never dabbled in minor DLC shenanigans, only meaty expansionstuff.