News In case you haven't noticed, the US is on fire #BandwithWarning

crimsonheadGCN · May 31, 2020

Thanks for posting this. Things need to change in the USA and hopefully this will spawn it.

If anyone feels like donating during this time then here is a small list:

Minnesota Freedom Fund will help protesters that were arrested to post bail - https://minnesotafreedomfund.org/

Here is a list of more bail funds across the country -

Official George Floyd Memorial Fund organized by Philonise Floyd

Black Lives Matter: Urgent Donation Needed

Durante · May 31, 2020

Ok, that last video (in the OP) is completely ridiculous.
I mean, everything is, but for that one in particular there is just absolutely no way to interpret or spin it to make what's going on less obvious.

Swenhir · May 31, 2020

I can only really, really hope as few people as possible will be harmed and that it leads to global, systemic reform so that the police can be trusted again.

That, unfortunately, does not just apply to the US but I don't want to go into the kind of whataboutism that is so rampant with these topics.

Good on you, US-people, and please be safe..

Edit : on the other hand, I'm sorry Hektor but this dehumanization with calling any guy in blue "pig" disgusts me. I get the anger and certainly many of them deserve to be insulted, prosecuted, jailed and then some but generalized hatred is just repulsive. Broad, wide-sweeping dehumanization never ends well.

xxr · May 31, 2020

Fuck the pigs. #BlackLivesMatter #ACAB

ISee · May 31, 2020

Looks to me like police is rioting because people are feed up with being killed by racists fucks.
Having a president as toxic, racists and separating as this one and a dangerous, unstable global pandemic surely didn't help either.

Unluckily, I doubt things will change. Just like the protests in Hong Kong won't stop China forever.

fantomena · May 31, 2020

xxr · May 31, 2020

Swenhir said:
I can only really, really hope as few people as possible will be harmed and that it leads to global, systemic reform so that the police can be trusted again.

That, unfortunately, does not just apply to the US but I don't want to go into the kind of whataboutism that is so rampant with these topics.

Good on you, US-people, and please be safe..

Edit : on the other hand, I'm sorry Hektor but this dehumanization with calling any guy in blue "pig" disgusts me. I get the anger and certainly many of them deserve to be insulted, prosecuted, jailed and then some but generalized hatred is just repulsive. Broad, wide-sweeping dehumanization never ends well.

The thing is, you can't fight systematic racism with "some cops are bad ya'll". You barely, if ever, see any cop stand up to the oppressors.

And it's not like they are the ones being oppressed.

Swenhir · May 31, 2020

fantomena said:

That last tweet hurts because of how spot-on it is. Though socialism and systemic police brutality are pretty independent problems.

Edit : Just saw your post as I posted, sorry!

xxr said:
The thing is, you can't fight systematic racism with "some cops are bad ya'll". You barely, if ever, see any cop stand up to the oppressors.

And it's not like they are the ones being oppressed.

I'm not sure how to convey the feeling accurately and I'm completely behind you in not wanting to loose this momentum to a "Well, actually" nitpick. I'm also not saying "not all cops". There's a systemic problem at work and it's not a question of a few bad apples. Fair disclaimer and sanity check there.

I'm just very uncomfortable seeing human beings painted that way. It's a gut feeling and what's right. I don't want torture, assault and atrocities to become a new "normal" because suddenly, some people are an acceptable target as less than human. Historically : not awesome.

And yes, I am aware that this is exactly why people are rioting and being overall fed up with the clusterfuck of racism and oppression that exists in the US, but that doesn't make sweeping dehumanization any more right.

I don't know that there's any more that can be said on this : these riots are as right as they come. I'm just wary of sinking into barbaric violence because of how easy it becomes once the person in front of you is no longer human. That's why this was so heartening to me, and why black people forming a cordon to shield an isolated white cop really gave me faith that this is going to be alright and that people aren't loosing the plot, that this is about getting humanity and decency back.

crimsonheadGCN · May 31, 2020

I want to go to one of these protests, but I'm diabetic and live with and take care of 70+ year old parents and I don't want to risk getting the virus. I've donated, so I'll try to do the best I can to offer support.

Swenhir · May 31, 2020

Hektor said:
Personally, i am perfectly fine with assault becoming the new normal for fascists and fascistoid opressors.
Should people have to do that? No of course not. But that choice lies with the opressor, not the opressed.
These protests precisely proof why. There have been many, many, many peaceful protests and they didn't achieve anything, because ruling opressors don't concede their positions out of free will. All violence coming out of the protests is the climax of people trying to make them, and now being fed up.

And unlike being black, being a cop is a choice. Every single one of them is able to tear down their badge and support the opressed.
Cops aren't a group of people, being a cop is a profession, a profession about enacting statesanctioned violence upon people, And if that violence is unjust then so are all cops in their actions.

Right, I'm going to nope out of here. You are advocating for indiscriminate violence against a group of people so vaguely defined it can't possibly be just and that's just well beyond me. I like you people but I believe in kindness rather than assault. Those grand theories about violence are easy to hold and the consequences absolutely horrific for the people on the streets. Hell, the people on the streets mostly disagree with you given how peaceful the protests are and how vehemently bad actors are being denounced.

Torching buildings is fine and probably needed given how unwilling to face the music both the US government and its police are. Buildings don't get PTSD.

Indiscriminate violence is barbaric and it's really hard for me to see you guys, so many of whom post in the mental health thread, advocate for this so easily.

NarohDethan · Jun 1, 2020

If the US systems allowed an open white supremacist be president, then those systems must burn. Some black dudes peacefully took a knee in a football game and the country lost their shit. Violence seems the only language Americans understand.
By the way, most protest have been peaceful anyway, until the cops show up. Fuck them.

Swenhir · Jun 1, 2020

Hektor said:
Kindness is a privilege, one that is not afforded to many.

As an abuse victim, I can't even begin to tell you what you sound like right now.

This makes no sense and those are just thinly-veiled justification for a violence that cannot be justified indiscriminately. Violence in the face of violence, to defend, to claim your right to decency and humanity? Violence in the face of "less-than-lethal" rounds to the eyes and face? Absolutely. Anger is a healthy and necessary thing.

The problem is that when I hear you, I hear revenge, vindication and hate. You call them "pigs" and I half-expect to hear atrocities thus justified in the next breath. That's not okay.

crimsonheadGCN · Jun 1, 2020

There's a live broadcast on Twitch. Haven't looked at the chat so I'm not sure how the moderators are handling everything.

NarohDethan · Jun 1, 2020

Swenhir · Jun 1, 2020

Hektor said:
-snip-

The connection is that you said kindness is a privilege, turning it into some weird currency instead of the universal and common thing it should be. The way you speak of it is anything but kind. It has nothing to do with fighting for your rights and you can harbor both revolt against the system and refrain from indiscriminate violence where none is warranted. I'm not sure you'll believe it given how heated this topic is, but I'm really sorry you were abused. It shouldn't be so goddamn common

.

As for the rest of your post, I can only say that I completely disagree that every cop is complicit, that every guy behind a badge deserves to be beaten and have his life threatened. No human being deserves to be lumped in such a group and put under such a threat, it doesn't matter what the cause is. What you are saying is dead wrong and there is no wrong you can use to justify another wrong. Your reasoning is how cycles of hatred begin.

You don't know these people and you have no right to condemn any of them to death by mob brutality from the comfort of your chair. If it happens through the police's own base and idiotic violence, so be it but I certainly don't wish for it nor advocate for it to come to this point. You sound like you do.

For the record, I think those protests are the best thing to happen to the US in a very long time. Systemic brutality, racism and violence are unacceptable and I am glad to see the situation finally erupt in something that cannot be swept under the rug.

Edit : I'm going to tuck in for the night and I don't doubt that you, and maybe others, will take issue with what I said. I'd just like to ask you to remember to be kind and try not to loose your judgment and humanity in the anger that the police's despicable and inhuman actions rightfully inspire.

Phoenix RISING · Jun 1, 2020

Thanks for starting this thread.

I don't even know where to begin. I guess one thing I've really struggled with is that I'm both black and Christian. Even if I were not Christian, I'd be getting it sideways. But the silence of big churches so far is disturbing.

Maybe other Christians are out there taking to the streets? I've gotten PMs from people close to me and they empathize with me—whites that is. Black people really goes without saying.

But...I'm on here looking at friggin Wicca out there talking about putting a hex on racism. Can I get some denominations out there or something? This is the kind of thing that makes people lose their religion.

low-G · Jun 1, 2020

I'm pretty worried that America is immune to progress - our system, our government, our culture is too corrupt, it fails too often, it's backsliding too much, the progressive leadership is far too weak-willed and takes profit over progress. I do think the empire is failing and I do not see it recovering. Even when we aren't moving to outright fascism, corporations and the rich become progressively more and more powerful. It hasn't moved back the other way for many, many decades. I do not see an America with any future at all.

As far as these protests, I worry that police state violence will only escalate until America has its own Tiananmen Square at some point in the future.

NarohDethan · Jun 1, 2020

Btw, fuck any brand trying to win some brownie points with sugar coated tweets. Put your money where your mouth is or shut up

low-G · Jun 1, 2020

NarohDethan said:
Btw, fuck any brand trying to win some brownie points with sugar coated tweets. Put your money where your mouth is or shut up

For the big brands, it does give insight to the assessment of their PR divisions. When all the companies only tow the fascist government line, that will be terrifying.

As a rule no company is ever going to forego profit & stand up for anyone's rights, and this was never made more clear than the last hundred or so years of history.

NarohDethan · Jun 1, 2020

Le Pertti · Jun 1, 2020

Hektor is on point explaining why it's ok to call all cops for pigs. It really is ACAB, cops as a profession is about protecting the system and be it's enforcer and if the system is fucked then it very much is that every cop is bad, because they chose to become cops and can stop but they don't. Are there cops who thought they would be one of the good ones and do good in the world, sure, but continuing to be a cop and seeing what everyone around them are doing makes them another bad cop. No one joins the army and think they will be one of the good soldiers.

I do hope the protests could stay non-violent but the cops clearly don't want that so violence is inevitable.

Either way, burn every fucking symbol of the system to the fucking ground.

Eferis · Jun 1, 2020

"Look at all these looted stores! These is shameful! Think of all the small business owners! Their dreams! Their hopes! Their future! Their children!!!"

proceeds to post video where every single store is either a big bank, a major fast food restaurant or a billion-dollar chain store

Swenhir · Jun 1, 2020

Monooboe said:
Hektor is on point explaining why it's ok to call all cops for pigs. It really is ACAB, cops as a profession is about protecting the system and be it's enforcer and if the system is fucked then it very much is that every cop is bad, because they chose to become cops and can stop but they don't. Are there cops who thought they would be one of the good ones and do good in the world, sure, but continuing to be a cop and seeing what everyone around them are doing makes them another bad cop. No one joins the army and think they will be one of the good soldiers.

I do hope the protests could stay non-violent but the cops clearly don't want that so violence is inevitable.

Either way, burn every fucking symbol of the system to the fucking ground.

Burning symbols, infrastructure and not-alive things is fine. It's cathartic. It's right in the face of systemic oppression and brutality.

But if you don't see the danger in generalized dehumanization, in whitewashing violence, in calling for a general human group to be a target I don't know what to tell you. I thought history had showed the dangers of dehumanization plenty enough already. There is no rationalization acceptable for it. It is possible to resist the police, to fight these institutions without resorting to the darkness of this rhetoric.

I'm pretty sure I'll be bowing out of this thread. I feel too distressed to see you all let go of basic human principles. This angry way of thinking is all too familiar to me and you can't go down that road. I know you guys and gals after having talked to you all for over a year here and I know you have the kindness, the ability to see that this isn't right.

Le Pertti · Jun 1, 2020

Swenhir That's what we are trying to tell you, cops aren't a human group, it's a profession that a person can walk away when they want. It isn't a protected class, that's only for things a person cant change about themselves, like sex, gender and race.

Swenhir · Jun 1, 2020

Monooboe said:
Swenhir That's what we are trying to tell you, cops aren't a human group, it's a profession that a person can walk away when they want. It isn't a protected class, that's only for things a person cant change about themselves, like sex, gender and race.

When dehumanizing like that, do you think the line is going to be drawn cleanly? That there won't be people itching for revenge, to finally be allowed to go and get some of their own? How about the families? And are the people who put their batons down not humans too? Ex-cops? Retired people? People in regions where they have actually done their jobs?

I'm not making the argument "not all cops", this is a systemic, institutionalized tendency and it needs a broad, widespread response. I am making the argument that dehumanizing is neither necessary nor healthy in any way. Dehumanizing is the step of putting a hood over someone's face so that the violence against it comes easier. It's the first step to atrocities and innocents are always caught in it. Many of you aren't calling for violence but when targets become acceptable, someone is going to step in and do what this rhethoric has enabled.

Take a read.

Le Pertti · Jun 1, 2020

Swenhir said:
When dehumanizing like that, do you think the line is going to be drawn cleanly? That there won't be people itching for revenge, to finally be allowed to go and get some of their own? How about the families? And are the people who put their batons down not humans too? Ex-cops? Retired people? People in regions where they have actually done their jobs?

I'm not making the argument "not all cops", this is a systemic, institutionalized tendency and it needs a broad, widespread response. I am making the argument that dehumanizing is neither necessary nor healthy in any way. Dehumanizing is the step of putting a hood over someone's face so that the violence against it comes easier. It's the first step to atrocities and innocents are always caught in it. Many of you aren't calling for violence but when targets become acceptable, someone is going to step in and do what this rhethoric has enabled.

Take a read.

To be fair, the dehumanizing is already done by themselves, that's what the uniform and badge is, that people don't see them as people but as the state and the authority.

Swenhir · Jun 1, 2020

Monooboe said:
To be fair, the dehumanizing is already done by themselves, that's what the uniform and badge is, that people don't see them as people but as the state and the authority.

I hope you can understand what I'm saying there. Dehumanization is never right.

The police is institutionally corrupt, violent and oppressive. It has as much willingness to correct herself as the church to clean house of pedophiles. Those statements are true and it's where the focus should be. Dehumanization is neither necessary nor right in order to achieve change. I am glad that the protesters seem to agree with that line of thinking.

Eferis · Jun 1, 2020

I don’t agree with the “pigs” thing either. It’s too easy to dehumanize, especially too easy on them. It’s a representation that can get twisted and portrayed as gratuitous hate that has no roots in the actual problem. They’re people and they’re bad. Every single one of them. Either because they actively do harm and perpetrate violence and injustice all over the world feeling above the law (and they’re way too often proven right because they receive protection from their action from institutions or other police) or because they enable it by bowing their head in silence because they’re part of the system. As people they must respect the basic rules of a civil society and be punished when they don’t and, since it is pretty clear that it’s not a single cop’s problem but a systemic problem in which violence, injustice and hate thrive, the system must be brought down and rebuilt and you cannot expect the same people do it.

P.S. I don’t really like the whole idea of having a police force either, but since we’re talking about reality and a police system is part of it and it’s not going anywhere, the focus should be on changes that can actually happen.

Phoenix RISING · Jun 1, 2020

NarohDethan said:
Btw, fuck any brand trying to win some brownie points with sugar coated tweets. Put your money where your mouth is or shut up

Especially the NFL. The audacity of that tweet given all it did to blackball Colin Kaepernick.

Francis W.M. said:
I don’t agree with the “pigs” thing either. It’s too easy to dehumanize, especially too easy on them. It’s a representation that can get twisted and portrayed as gratuitous hate that has no roots in the actual problem. They’re people and they’re bad. Every single one of them. Either because they actively do harm and perpetrate violence and injustice all over the world feeling above the law (and they’re way too often proven right because they receive protection from their action from institutions or other police) or because they enable it by bowing their head in silence because they’re part of the system. As people they must respect the basic rules of a civil society and be punished when they don’t and, since it is pretty clear that it’s not a single cop’s problem but a systemic problem in which violence, injustice and hate thrive, the system must be brought down and rebuilt and you cannot expect the same people do it.

P.S. I don’t really like the whole idea of having a police force either, but since we’re talking about reality and a police system is part of it and it’s not going anywhere, the focus should be on changes that can actually happen.

Origins of the police force are so heavily ingrained into maintaining the status quo that is difficult to even articulate what precisely needs to change and if that's even possible.

That's a great deal part of the despair that some of us are expressing. We know it needs to change, and yes, the police are necessary, but some of that culture is so awful that we can't even imagine what reform looks like.

Have you seen the police out there? Their militarized. How do you dissolve 50 states of militarization?

And that's before fighting against conservatives who like it like this.

NarohDethan · Jun 1, 2020

crimsonheadGCN · Jun 1, 2020

How would someone find out where protests are happening? I'm looking for stuff in New Jersey, but I can only find days old information.

Swenhir · Jun 1, 2020

crimsonheadGCN said:
How would someone find out where protests are happening? I'm looking for stuff in New Jersey, but I can only find days old information.

That's all I can give you. But please be careful. Don't go there without protection. Do have stuff to protect your eyes and even breathe through tear gas if you can. Be safe, please.

crimsonheadGCN · Jun 1, 2020

I'll try and get a pair of safety goggles from work tonight and I have a mask. I'll try and be safe. I found out there is a protest in North Bergen, NJ this weekend, so I'll probably go there.

Eferis · Jun 1, 2020

Firewithin · Jun 1, 2020

Parsnip · Jun 1, 2020

It's just so awful.

And it's very difficult to even begin to describe just how foreign everything about this is.

Over here police shoot 10 bullets a year, on average. That's the total for the whole country. For example an article from 2016 says that in 10 years police shot 122 bullets.
You can count the total deaths by police in 21st century with two hands. This was in 2019, so it's possible we need toes now.
Sure, we are a small country and all that, but even when normalizing for population, the US cops kill 16 times more often.

crimsonheadGCN · Jun 1, 2020

I found out that there will be a rally tomorrow in my city:

Protest in response to the death of George Floyd set for Tuesday in Clifton

Two high school alumni are behind the rally for social justice scheduled to be held on the front lawn of City Hall, home to the city's police department.

www.northjersey.com

Le Pertti · Jun 1, 2020

Anyone protesting, be safe. Trump is eager to swing with every weapon he has, be it cops national guard even the fucking army.

ISee · Jun 1, 2020

For all of you who are going to actively take part in protests.
Stay safe, don't take risks. This could quickly turn very ugly when one side decides to use weapons.

NarohDethan · Jun 1, 2020

ACAB. Pieces of shit.

ISee · Jun 1, 2020

holy hell

fantomena · Jun 1, 2020

A Norwegian dude posted this on FB.

It's kinda "weird" how Trump seems to think Norway likes him because we are a white country, but the vast majority here despises him.

News In case you haven't noticed, the US is on fire #BandwithWarning

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