News In case you haven't noticed, the US is on fire #BandwithWarning

Phoenix RISING

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Like how the fuck is there a defense force for

A: Getting shot in the back 7 times, in front of your kids, after stopping a fight, no weapons..... No defense is possible.

B: 17 year old kid open carrying an AR when they're from another state.... Like how in the fuck do you defend the kid and the media/social media shit storm and groups that got him into that position.
I wish there was a way to post a conversation that I saw on Slack.

Dude said:

Sadly, these days everyone not at least sympathetic to Marxist ideology and progressive politics is labeled "far right".

He shouldn't have been there, but it's also a free country, and most of the people out in that situation "shouldn't have been there".

It's a mess for sure, and actual justice will probably the most inflammatory outcome, as it would be for most of the visible and public incidents and crimes driving the current social narrative.
This dude is a teacher.


Thankfully, someone said:

I'm going to bed, but we're spending a LOT of time defending the rights and justifications of the white guy who made a special trip with a gun, and not so much time with the guy who was shot unjustly seven times.
To which I added, "or the people who died."
Thankfully, someone said:

I'm going to bed, but we're spending a LOT of time defending the rights and justifications of the white guy who made a special trip with a gun, and not so much time with the guy who was shot unjustly seven times.
To which I added, "or the people who died."
 

Trisolarian

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I wish there was a way to post a conversation that I saw on Slack.

Dude said:



This dude is a teacher.


Thankfully, someone said:



To which I added, "or the people who died."
Thankfully, someone said:



To which I added, "or the people who died."
How 'Marxism' get in this fucking conversation????

Far right media indoctrination bullshit, to use their phrase.

I guess people don't have the right not to be shot anymore....
 

Phoenix RISING

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Thankfully, someone said:

I'm going to bed, but we're spending a LOT of time defending the rights and justifications of the white guy who made a special trip with a gun, and not so much time with the guy who was shot unjustly seven times.
To which I added, "or the people who died."
How 'Marxism' get in this fucking conversation????

Far right media indoctrination bullshit, to use their phrase.

I guess people don't have the right not to be shot anymore....
You never had the right to not be shot, but your right to carry a gun is in the Constitution.
 

Trisolarian

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Thankfully, someone said:



To which I added, "or the people who died."


You never had the right to not be shot, but your right to carry a gun is in the Constitution.
True. But its a 'rights' to life , kind of like the ones those people will use to justify the shootings. 'Feared for my life and self defense'.
 
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Swenhir

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I'm not sure that I'm not butting in too heavily in your conversation but you wrote a thing that made me really nod in approval and hit home.
I'm going to bed, but we're spending a LOT of time defending the rights and justifications of the white guy who made a special trip with a gun, and not so much time with the guy who was shot unjustly seven times.
That happens all the damn time, and I lived it over and over when in a victim's position. People always question the victim, always try to see things from the perspective of the perpetrator and very seldom offer sympathy, empathy or even try to imagine what it was like to be the recipient of the misdeed, let alone their treatment of you.

I still struggle to understand why people defend abusers instinctively like this.
 
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Monooboe

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What sickening to hear is talk about if the shooter was justified in protecting himself. The talk should be about if the protesters were right in wanting to protect themselves from a right wing militia nut out clearly to kill. Like fuck yeah they should chase away and disarm if possible all those right wing shitheads who only do want a new civil war.
 

Phoenix RISING

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What sickening to hear is talk about if the shooter was justified in protecting himself. The talk should be about if the protesters were right in wanting to protect themselves from a right wing militia nut out clearly to kill. Like fuck yeah they should chase away and disarm if possible all those right wing shitheads who only do want a new civil war.
The narrative concerning the shooter protecting himself is a combination of gun worship and white supremacy, both of which are analogous in the US.

I mean, have you seen this? This is why the police WANTED that kid there. And they'd do it again too.

 
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Swenhir

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The narrative concerning the shooter protecting himself is a combination of gun worship and white supremacy, both of which are analogous in the US.

I mean, have you seen this? This is why the police WANTED that kid there. And they'd do it again too.

That guys is a Sheriff? This isn't the 60s, this is the 30s and then some. This line of reasoning is genocidal.
 

Wok

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I have read this Twitter thread and found it informative. There are lots of details going on in the videos, which make them hard to follow.

Edit: The Twitter thread is slightly different from the article.

 

ISee

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He is deliberately putting secret service agents at risk for a PR stunt.
Whenever I think nothing can surprise me anymore, I get trumped.



 

Swenhir

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Republicans have made COVID a partisan issue. And because the majority of the country is comprised of bigots, this is where we are.

I comfort myself in knowing that this is the usual Electoral College bullshit, along with a 55.7% turnout.

Not a majority of bigots, I should hope, by far.
 

Phoenix RISING

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Hadn't even found the time to post about how they were going to abduct and assassinate the Michigan governor. That's right after striking down her COVID restrictions so that everyone in Detroit wouldn't die.

And now #45 has one third of SCOTUS.

ONE THIRD

AOC could be president with a radical congress and they could strike down everything on a whim, because ACB isn't even intellectually saavy enough to write jurisprudence. She's a housewife with a side gig.
 
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Swenhir

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I have no idea what is going on, but between the possibility of them blocking the way to advertise, or them trying to coral the bus into some sort of behavior, none of it is acceptable on the road.
 

gabbo

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I hate to revive this thread, but America is literally falling.
DC is under siege from terrorists. Stay safe MetaDC

Terrorist on the floor of congress, on the dais
 
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Swenhir

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I think that it's a little over-dramatic to say the US are falling, as if those people won't be kicked the hell out. I just hope nobody will get hurt because of those looneys.

It's still a mess and a disgrace, but that country, or what's left of it anyway, is not ending because of those asshats.
 
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Swenhir

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That's the sinister, ugly suspicion I have about all this. It appears to have been far too easy and the double standards are painful. Most protests I've seen during the last couple months involved the police ruthlessly beating the shit out of people, maiming and harming. Also, killing. Here, they just meekly turned their back.

I'm not sure that the circumstances are comparable but there's a vast gulf in difference in brutality, which should be a good thing if that was to be the baseline.

However, letting them in is not the same thing as not beating the shit out of them. That's a complete security and professional failure and it's a miracle no hostage has been taken.
 
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gabbo

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I think that it's a little over-dramatic to say the US are falling, as if those people won't be kicked the hell out. I just hope nobody will get hurt because of those looneys.

It's still a mess and a disgrace, but that country, or what's left of it anyway, is not ending because of those asshats.
I might have been overzealous I admit. That said, when you have armed insurrectionists storming the capital building to overthrow legitimate election, and the security gave way before doors and windows, only to have those same people walked out under their own power? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Why was the Capitol occupied?
Answer in one picture.
some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
 

nordschatten

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What happend in DC is fucking disgusting and a disgrace to a democracy that prides itself to be "the greatest" (even though its deeply flawed: an election that ends with 81-74 million should never be considered "close").

Trump and his cronies wanted this. He was working towards this, and he didnt back down. His little speech on Twitter (where he called for the mob to go home) was the barest minimum effort to keep the peace, while calling this mob "very special" and telling them "we love you". But then again, he spent the last decade or so with inciting violence and hatred and spreading conspiracy theories. He built a cult around himself and now we see the results.
Buuuut we all saw this coming from miles away, they werent hiding their violent tendencies, Trump was never hiding his flirting with overturning the American democracy. He loves revelling in the crowd, loves riling them up, and his cult members love him for it. He is incapable of admitting any wrongdoing, defeat or weaknesses, and he will continue to lie and lie and lie until his grave. He probably believes his own lies, too.
He belongs in prison and should stay there for the rest of his days, cut off from his channels of spreading his hate speech. Twitter, FB etc blocking his accounts (for only 24 hrs??) is too little, too late. But at least they FINALLY did that.

Lets also not forget the Republican Party and their part in this. They went a great deal of the way with him, and carry a lot of the responsibility. Where did they think this was gonna end? Where did anyone think this was gonna go? Have they learned nothing from history? If you keep on inciting hatred and anger, violence, real physical violence is what you will get. Escalating the anger in these people will inevitably lead to this. But a lot of people will only understand this when the violence reaches them personally.

Oh and I'm absolutely with those that said that POC protestesters wouldve been thwarted off with way more violent means - and way sooner than this predominantly male, predominantly white mob.

The following should happen: those senators and house members who supported Trump should answer for their conspiring against the republic, Trump should be removed from office (despite having only a handful days left: any minute this man remains president is dangerous) and put behind bars asap, and the people who stormed the Capitol should be arrested, all of them (Im sure theres enough evidence to find them). The police there should answer why this was even possible. Why, on such a day, when Trump has been calling for this to happen in advance, there was not a greater police presence.

On Jan 20, 2017 I wrote on Twitter: Remember, nothing about President Trump is normal and never will be. Resist, refuse, impeach.
And that, unfortunately, was still an understatement.
 
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ISee

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It's not like the republican party didn't know that Trump is a racist, white power endorsing demagogue. Some are supporting him from the deepest of their heart and dream of a u.s. regime and total white power. But I imagine the majority of them thought they can hold him under control, while profiting from his popularity.

About one hundred years ago the ruling political class of a very young democracy had that same idea about another hate preaching demagogue of his time; the Weimarer Republic. While the W.R. and the U.S.A. have very different problems and starting scenarios, the reason why people flock to those demagogues are always the same though.

History thought us that playing and allowing political hate and nationalism will long term burn a society. I'm not saying that the U.S.A. will be a regime in fifteen years, but closing Pandora's box isn't possible either. Trump and his family clan will keep on preaching disinformation and hate. Maybe Trump will start his own "News Agency", maybe he will one day start his own MAGA party that shatter republicans, maybe he will run for president in four years again.

Ultimately it doesn't matter, people will breath every foul word that comes from his mouth. I think it is safe to say that this is a torn nation, one where political ideologies are drifting further away every year until they are incompatible.

The EU is being torn apart by nationalists from Hungary, Poland and the U.K.
The U.S.A. is being torn apart by MAGA
While the regime in china is getting more stable and gathering influence every year.

I'm not a fan of unregulated capitalism. I think after the cold war ended we all assumed that democracy and capitalism is the winner and "the best achievable" system: "It has it flaws, but what else you gonna do?"
A deceptive truth, it is impossible to not see the increasing suffering that our system is willingly creating.

But it depresses me deeply that instead of going forward, looking for something new and better people are devolving backwards into nationalism.
While learning nothing from history.

The golden times are over and while u.s. democracy wasn't falling yesterday it started changing about six years ago.
 
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Swenhir

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I might have been overzealous I admit. That said, when you have armed insurrectionists storming the capital building to overthrow legitimate election, and the security gave way before doors and windows, only to have those same people walked out under their own power? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
No worries, and I have to admit I really am stunned too. The US was never the better democracy given the dismal vote participation rates but this was such an abject display that once again there is a faction of authority-entrusted people who care nothing for the principles and morals they supposed to be upholding, not to mention the lives of their citizens.

This was always, in my opinion, a joke of a display with people with more bells loose upstairs than sense, but it's terrifying that the police worked with them until other corps remembered to do their fucking job and, you know, protect one of the seats of government.

To say that the double standard on display merits a deep reform would be insulting what has happened for decades to PoC and people of disadvantaged conditions in the US. I still think that this was a very powerful symbol that this sort of corruption, that this sort of behavior from both authorities and political institutions needs to be addressed because they want to take control, unlawfully, undemocratically, of the rest of the country and have more of a say than everyone else.

That's textbook tyranny.
 

Wildebeet

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Just wanted to say that people shouldn't get so worked up about this stuff. I saw the headlines today and was honestly dismayed at how many articles called this a coup attempt. I'm sad that so many grown adults in the press think there is a machine in the capitol building that runs the government. I mean let's be rational and a little more dispassionate here. It's a rowdy protest in what might be the most heavily policed and militarized city on earth. It isn't a takeover of half of north america by the MAGA boogeymen.

What happens in DC is not a representation of what the united states is like or the people here. It's like going to Hollywood or Las Vegas and thinking that's a good sample. I've spent a lot of time in DC and I'm telling you, that place is an absolute circus every single day. When I saw headlines about the capitol situation I basically shrugged and didn't think much about it. People are screaming about it now, but it's not very impactful or significant in the longer term.

Also, I hope people can understand that most of the "red" people in the US are not racists, fascists, MAGA nuts, and all of this stuff. Trump supporters are not all MAGA crazies, in fact, most are not. (To be clear: I do not support Trump in any way whatsoever, to say the least, and I don't identify with them on a political level at all. I am not a republican of any stripe.) They are average people with legitimate, normal political concerns. I say that because the US is not overrun with Nazis as some would have you believe. They're ordinary people who are not represented by the current political system and have different, nuanced reasons for choosing Trump. They are not all children and morons. Again, I do not agree with them but we get nowhere with caricature and monsters under the bed.

Remember the media's role in the polarization we have in the US and in many other countries. They refuse to acknowledge it. I read an article recently about how the New York Times' subscriptions went from around 3 million to 7 million during the last 4 years. That boost in income and feedback is not lost on them. Polarization, conflict, drama, hype and fear sells. Rational and dispassionate adult discussion, or trying to understand people you disagree with at a human level, does not. Any information source insisting that we think and act irrationally, or isolate and demonize our fellow humans should be viewed with extreme skepticism, no matter how well respected that source is or was, whether it's the Guardian or the Post or the Times or Fox or NPR or some fool on twitter. The polarization problem will not end by electing the other guy or by subduing and discrediting those not represented by their government.

The real story here has always been: why are 50% of americans not represented by the mainstream political system so they'd vote for an outsider tv celebrity instead of any candidate? Why does half the population not feel well informed by the mainstream media? Why does the political divide seem to be sharpest between rural and urban people? Why does democracy mean making 51% of us fight the other 49%, often just for basic rights as humans, divided along an arbitrary political line as defined by elite others, and why is that a good system?
 

gabbo

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Just wanted to say that people shouldn't get so worked up about this stuff. I saw the headlines today and was honestly dismayed at how many articles called this a coup attempt. I'm sad that so many grown adults in the press think there is a machine in the capitol building that runs the government. I mean let's be rational and a little more dispassionate here. It's a rowdy protest in what might be the most heavily policed and militarized city on earth. It isn't a takeover of half of north america by the MAGA boogeymen.
This was textbook definition of an attempted coup, though. An armed group trying to remove the existing, or in this case, up coming government, from power through illegal means.
It stopped being a legitimate protest when you have the intent to take hostages. They werent looking to tie up recyclables for easy transport with those zipties.


Everything else you said is true, but it doesn't mean they're mutually exclusive. The same people who either see a system that failed them or believe it has failed them, reinforced by a corporate media bent more or ratings dollars than true journalism tried to take the capital by force. You don't need to represent a certain percentage of the citizens or take all 50 state houses for it to be a coup.
 

Swenhir

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The real story here has always been: why are 50% of americans not represented by the mainstream political system so they'd vote for an outsider tv celebrity instead of any candidate? Why does half the population not feel well informed by the mainstream media? Why does the political divide seem to be sharpest between rural and urban people? Why does democracy mean making 51% of us fight the other 49%, often just for basic rights as humans, divided along an arbitrary political line as defined by elite others, and why is that a good system?
Couldn't agree more, especially on this aspect. That it's an all or nothing system is something, in my opinion, has to go from most democracies. This is a medieval way of choosing and acting.
 

Durante

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Also, I hope people can understand that most of the "red" people in the US are not racists, fascists, MAGA nuts, and all of this stuff. Trump supporters are not all MAGA crazies, in fact, most are not. (To be clear: I do not support Trump in any way whatsoever, to say the least, and I don't identify with them on a political level at all. I am not a republican of any stripe.) They are average people with legitimate, normal political concerns. I say that because the US is not overrun with Nazis as some would have you believe. They're ordinary people who are not represented by the current political system and have different, nuanced reasons for choosing Trump. They are not all children and morons. Again, I do not agree with them but we get nowhere with caricature and monsters under the bed.
As an outsider, I agree with your fundamental point that the US political system disenfranchises lots of people (by design?), and that much of the for-profit media (by definition) thrives on division.
However, I really cannot -- even with honest effort -- understand how anyone who is not either a fascist, racist, MAGA nut, child (in mind at least), moron, or amoral capitalist member of the 1% (and one without a shred of long-term perspective at that) can support Donald Trump. Especially at this point in time, but it wasn't really fundamentally different 4 years ago.
 

nordschatten

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As an outsider, I agree with your fundamental point that the US political system disenfranchises lots of people (by design?), and that much of the for-profit media (by definition) thrives on division.
However, I really cannot -- even with honest effort -- understand how anyone who is not either a fascist, racist, MAGA nut, child (in mind at least), moron, or amoral capitalist member of the 1% (and one without a shred of long-term perspective at that) can support Donald Trump. Especially at this point in time, but it wasn't really fundamentally different 4 years ago.
I agree, and I must say I have very little sympathy/empathy for Trump supporters. This coming was obvious from miles away. They all knew, theyre all complicit. And it really does not take a lot of effort to see past his lies. He tells them so frequently, theyre so easily dismantled and disproven that it should be obvious to anyone with a bit of a heart and a brain how dangerous, sociopathic and evil this man is. No matter how disenfranchised you feel (and I dont necessarily agree, since most of his voters come from the white middle class, no?), voting for someone like that, even after four years of being very straightforward about his policy of "Trump above all, fuck all else" and everything that came with it... after all this, I cannot feel sympathy for his supporters. They got what they chose. I can only hope the rest of the US government and Congress takes the necessary steps to remove Trump from office and then prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.

fantomena I havent seen Kimmel yet, will watch now. I usually just watch Colbert, Meyers (and I thought those were great, especially Meyers), Trevor Noah and John Oliver.