Community MetaSteam | April 2022 - Crossing Spring in a Galaxy Far, Far Away

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C-Dub

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Regarding Google's statement on the Bandcamp thing... they are right inasmuch as Epic has other options on Android.

However, Google has both created those options and then moved Heaven and Earth to make sure it's incredibly difficult for anyone to use them.

It's almost as if it's a ploy to try to sidestep antitrust issues.

I'm still of the opinion that it's Google's store and Google's rules, so Epic can just release a "reader" app on Google Play, but I also think that Google (and Android device makers in general, including Amazon) should be forced to give users easy access to alternate app stores while also being compelled to not do anything to stifle alternate app stores that have proven to be safe.

Buy a Samsung Galaxy device? When you first setup (and later on in Settings) users should be given access to any store that's been independently deemed safe. Just have a checklist of app stores and let users pick what they want to install. If people want F-Droid or EGS or Amazon AppStore (or any others that may come along), installing it should be as easy as picking it from a list rather than users finding themselves having to navigate to a website and getting scary messages about "unsafe apps", though that option should still be there of course.

Open platforms are useless if the device/OS maker is putting artificial barriers up.
 

dex3108

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Dec 20, 2018
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Regarding Google's statement on the Bandcamp thing... they are right inasmuch as Epic has other options on Android.

However, Google has both created those options and then moved Heaven and Earth to make sure it's incredibly difficult for anyone to use them.

It's almost as if it's a ploy to try to sidestep antitrust issues.

I'm still of the opinion that it's Google's store and Google's rules, so Epic can just release a "reader" app on Google Play, but I also think that Google (and Android device makers in general, including Amazon) should be forced to give users easy access to alternate app stores while also being compelled to not do anything to stifle alternate app stores that have proven to be safe.

Buy a Samsung Galaxy device? When you first setup (and later on in Settings) users should be given access to any store that's been independently deemed safe. Just have a checklist of app stores and let users pick what they want to install. If people want F-Droid or EGS or Amazon AppStore (or any others that may come along), installing it should be as easy as picking it from a list rather than users finding themselves having to navigate to a website and getting scary messages about "unsafe apps", though that option should still be there of course.

Open platforms are useless if the device/OS maker is putting artificial barriers up.
My entire issue with these sore things is that when Apple and Google both were building those platforms from the ground up everyone else was sitting on their asses (except Microsoft but they didn't cared enough to push things). Now that both apple and Google built big and good platform now companies are popping up and complaining. And Epic is one company that should just shut up because when piracy was at the peak they just abandoned platform, they didn't do anything to reduce or prevent it. And now they are saving PC from evil Steam.
 

C-Dub

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My entire issue with these sore things is that when Apple and Google both were building those platforms from the ground up everyone else was sitting on their asses (except Microsoft but they didn't cared enough to push things). Now that both apple and Google built big and good platform now companies are popping up and complaining. And Epic is one company that should just shut up because when piracy was at the peak they just abandoned platform, they didn't do anything to reduce or prevent it. And now they are saving PC from evil Steam.
I wholeheartedly agree. The way Epic characterises these platforms as simply gatekeepers who skim profits off of innocent devs and publishers is flawed. Google, Apple, Valve and anyone else who has a big platform has invested in building up their audience and should rightly charge for access to that audience and have rules in place that those who wish to use their store need to adhere to. So long as they don't wield that power to stifle alternatives, there's really no issue.

Valve's store, Valve's rules. Google's store, Google's rules. Apple's store, Apple's rules.

The problem is when that store is used as leverage to stifle an alternative store on a so-called open platform. Epic has accused Google of putting the screws on device manufacturers to keep EGS off their devices. I think that's a very valid point of contention and in my mind, that's wrong. If Epic wants to do their own thing on an open platform, they should be able to do so.

Google can't say on the one hand that Android is open, and on the other inextricably link a closed ecosystem to that platform and use their clout to exclude any and all competition.

When SteamOS3 is ready for third party device makers, do we expect Valve to mandate that only Steam can be distributed on that platform? If, for example, Alienware makes a SteamOS3 device, I think everyone expects the device will come bundled with Steam because it would be insane to not include it. But if, say, Epic decided to pay Alienware to also include EGS with the device, do we see a situation where Valve turns around and says that EGS is not allowed to be bundled with the device and threatens to withhold a license to distribute Steam if Alienware includes EGS? Of course they won't. But Epic is alleging that Google has done that on Android. That's the issue in my mind.

Sadly, Epic weakens their case because in reality all they want is a free lunch on other app stores, and their bleating about open platforms looks more like a cudgel to whack their opponents with, just as their purchase of Bandcamp is.
 

dex3108

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I wholeheartedly agree. The way Epic characterises these platforms as simply gatekeepers who skim profits off of innocent devs and publishers is flawed. Google, Apple, Valve and anyone else who has a big platform has invested in building up their audience and should rightly charge for access to that audience and have rules in place that those who wish to use their store need to adhere to. So long as they don't wield that power to stifle alternatives, there's really no issue.

Valve's store, Valve's rules. Google's store, Google's rules. Apple's store, Apple's rules.

The problem is when that store is used as leverage to stifle an alternative store on a so-called open platform. Epic has accused Google of putting the screws on device manufacturers to keep EGS off their devices. I think that's a very valid point of contention and in my mind, that's wrong. If Epic wants to do their own thing on an open platform, they should be able to do so.

Google can't say on the one hand that Android is open, and on the other inextricably link a closed ecosystem to that platform and use their clout to exclude any and all competition.

When SteamOS3 is ready for third party device makers, do we expect Valve to mandate that only Steam can be distributed on that platform? If, for example, Alienware makes a SteamOS3 device, I think everyone expects the device will come bundled with Steam because it would be insane to not include it. But if, say, Epic decided to pay Alienware to also include EGS with the device, do we see a situation where Valve turns around and says that EGS is not allowed to be bundled with the device and threatens to withhold a license to distribute Steam if Alienware includes EGS? Of course they won't. But Epic is alleging that Google has done that on Android. That's the issue in my mind.

Sadly, Epic weakens their case because in reality all they want is a free lunch on other app stores, and their bleating about open platforms looks more like a cudgel to whack their opponents with, just as their purchase of Bandcamp is.
There is no doubt that both Apple and Google did some shady things and they should be punished for it. Issue is that Epic fighting them is not clean either so cheering for them is kinda impossible. But Epic is not alone, look at Spotify and how much they complain while paying artists pennies and insulting them. There is no clean company in all of this.
 

C-Dub

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There is no doubt that both Apple and Google did some shady things and they should be punished for it. Issue is that Epic fighting them is not clean either so cheering for them is kinda impossible. But Epic is not alone, look at Spotify and how much they complain while paying artists pennies and insulting them. There is no clean company in all of this.
Again, I don't disagree. Epic allegedly treats their staff bad and has apparently engaged in union busting, and lots of musicians have nothing nice to say about Spotify and how they're raking in massive profits. Meanwhile Epic bitches about Valve and Apple and Google as if they're the devil incarnate.

I think Valve is the most innocent in all of this. The company just does its own thing and, while Valve is nowhere near perfect, at least they aren't acting in a way that distorts or stifles the market. Steam's dominance is from consumer choice, not underhanded tactics.

Apple are, well, they're Apple. They do some insane and inconsistent stuff on their App Store, have done some horrible things (Sherlocking is a prime example), but for a lot of things it's their store and their rules. I also think that people who buy iOS devices know what they're getting - a closed platform, no different from games consoles. Apple has never operated under the pretence that iOS is an open ecosystem and they've never given their customers or developers that impression, so I don't really see where Epic's going with Apple other than they're a high profile target.

Google are complete shits, though. They distort markets using their free to use ad-based model for so many products and services, harvest more user data than any organisation ever should, and hide behind a veneer of openness to do absolutely reprehensible and non-transparent shit. So I do hope that Epic gets some big hits against Google and wins some serious concessions that will make Android the open OS it is purported to be. Not that Sweeney will be happy, since all he really wants is a free lunch on the Google Play Store.
 

tetel

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Well I don’t know what your secret is but I’m ~17 hrs in and I’m constantly skint.
After basically every major boss I’m low on resources and/or cash.
I just beat Dohalim and I’ve barely nothing left, such that I’ve had to turn the difficulty down.
Sidequests are paying a decent amount of money, there's a lot of junk to sell and a decent amount of healing to be found between each boss fights - it's been a while since I've played but I don't think there was more to that so I guess the question is whether you're doing side content and/or spending money on gels.
 
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AHA-Lambda

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Sidequests are paying a decent amount of money, there's a lot of junk to sell and a decent amount of healing to be found between each boss fights - it's been a while since I've played but I don't think there was more to that so I guess the question is whether you're doing side content and/or spending money on gels.
Yeah I’m doing each side quest and almost all of my money is still going on gels and life bottles

I believe I’m almost at the point fishing is unlocked so that will help
 
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Mor

Mor

Me llamo Willy y no hice la mili, pero vendo Chili
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When SteamOS3 is ready for third party device makers, do we expect Valve to mandate that only Steam can be distributed on that platform? If, for example, Alienware makes a SteamOS3 device, I think everyone expects the device will come bundled with Steam because it would be insane to not include it. But if, say, Epic decided to pay Alienware to also include EGS with the device, do we see a situation where Valve turns around and says that EGS is not allowed to be bundled with the device and threatens to withhold a license to distribute Steam if Alienware includes EGS? Of course they won't. But Epic is alleging that Google has done that on Android. That's the issue in my mind.
As a matter of fact we know the answer for this, no, they won't prevent anything as we saw with SteamDeck (which is even their own hardware) they could have locked up everything and make Steam mandatory but they didn't, they gave the whole Linux ecosystem to everyone so you can install whatever you want (within certain limits, of course, as it comes with read only protection for security) but you know... hehe
 

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
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As a matter of fact we know the answer for this, no, they won't prevent anything as we saw with SteamDeck (which is even their own hardware) they could have locked up everything and make Steam mandatory but they didn't, they gave the whole Linux ecosystem to everyone so you can install whatever you want (within certain limits, of course, as it comes with read only protection for security) but you know... hehe
Oh yeah I agree, I was talking in hypotheticals and just using it as a point of comparison.

We all know Valve won't stop third party device manufacturers from preinstalling whatever they want on their third party SteamOS3 devices. And that's the difference between them and Google, who have allegedly leveraged not granting a Google Play license to stop EGS from being preinstalled on third party Android devices.

I am not a fan of Epic, but if Google have stopped EGS from being preinstalled on third party devices they will do it for other, better stores. And that in my mind is wrong because they are creating a de facto closed platform by leveraging licensing agreements to consolidate their market share.
 

Durante

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Oct 21, 2018
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I know you just used it as an example, but I'd still like to note that for EGS to be preinstalled on a SteamOS device they'd first need to support Linux.
(Or run in Wine/Proton I guess, but that would be the ultimate admission of really not giving a shit)
 

Dinjoralo

None shall remember those who do not fight.
Dec 6, 2018
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There's always Legendary, I guess.
Valve's case is a real oddball, where their entire business strategy is basically making things people want to use. That's not some altruistic good-guy endeavor, it's just the good business sense of knowing the market and understanding your audience. Nobody else seems to get that.

I want a Steam Deck. And income, so I can afford to buy a Steam Deck.
 

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
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I know you just used it as an example, but I'd still like to note that for EGS to be preinstalled on a SteamOS device they'd first need to support Linux.
(Or run in Wine/Proton I guess, but that would be the ultimate admission of really not giving a shit)
Considering Sweeney has described moving to Linux as akin to emigrating to Canada, I suspect that’s not likely!

Though he is a man of many hypocrisies, so also likely is that Linux gaming gets bigger (thanks to the work of companies not called Epic) and then they will arrive with their Linux client and pretend they’ve always been a fan and that they’re somehow an important part of the platform.
 

QFNS

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Been trying out Rouge Legacy 2 now it it's hit 1.0. Man that game is fun! I thought it was still very similar to the original but then I did a comparison. It looks sooooo much better. I guess in my mind I had made the old one look nicer than it was.

I'm still very early but there's a lot of good stuff here. Grinding for gold, tons of persistent upgrades, and Metroidvania progression too. It's a lot more than that first one, but also if you really hated the original I dunno if this will change your mind. They took the first game and made it more and better in every direction so far.
 

Lashley

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ezodagrom

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New GPUs seem crazy:

Crazy in an awful way, we're looking at the top graphics cards needing up to 600W, which is more than twice my whole PC at its peak for a single component.

I wonder how bad the mid range will be, with mid range cards like the 3060 Ti needing 200W currently.
 

Dinjoralo

None shall remember those who do not fight.
Dec 6, 2018
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I went ahead and put down a reservation for a mid-tier Deck. I can always cancel it if I don't have a job by October, or whenever the stock comes in. Consider it a belated birthday present to myself. Though by that point I'll be having real problems if I still don't have a job.
It can't take that long to find work, can it?
 

gabbo

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Crazy in an awful way, we're looking at the top graphics cards needing up to 600W, which is more than twice my whole PC at its peak for a single component.

I wonder how bad the mid range will be, with mid range cards like the 3060 Ti needing 200W currently.
They finally hit on a [relatively] power efficient build with RDNA2, I can't seem them tossing that all out after a single generation or at least attempting to not replicate it again with the 7000 series
 
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ZKenir

❀ Child of Raikou ❀
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damn the weirdest shit is happening, audio coming out of my speakers and airpods seems warped / corrupted, i have unpaired/paired/rebooted about a dozen times now and every time I boot up a game audio just seems gone to shit, I literally changed nothing between today and yesterday on this pc lmao
 
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