|OT| Novel coronavirus (COVID-19) news & discussion - No, it's not just a flu

Oct 30, 2018
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Damn, so if you get it, it lasts for weeks?
If I remember right, the usual scenario is one can leave intensive care to go back home after 20 days.

The people who get in intensive care get there about 10 days after the first symptoms. So, that is 30 days in total.

pulmonary inflammation (the most common case sending people to intensive care) can develop 8 to 10 days after showing the first symptoms.
Right.
 
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Monooboe

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Ugh I think I back in my mind thought it would be like a really bad cold, that if I got it I would be fine, kind wished I could have it now to get it over with since I'm stuck at home anyway. But fuck does't sound nice at all eventhough I would probably be fine and all but still.
 

yuraya

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Damn, so if you get it, it lasts for weeks?
Most deaths seem to be anywhere from 10-20 days after testing positive. Some much faster but its really hard to tell since incubation period is so long its hard to tell exactly when someone gets infected. There are videos of NY nurses doing interviews saying the lungs look clear one day and full of inflammation/infection the next so the shit is really scary and unpredictable.
 

Trisolarian

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New Jersey is in deep shit. :crying-face:

47,000 confirmed cases. 1500 people have died. It isn't slowing down fast enough.

Life isn't pleasant here atm. People are already cut off and the net keeps closing tighter to keep people indoors. Which is, well, kind of cruel. Basically all parks are closed, with no end date in sight, any place people can gather is cut off, a needed crack down on way too crowded stores is underway.....

Really difficult for people to focus on productivity at work, difficult to get supplies, nearly impossible to even think of trying to have to get a test or something and hospitals a complete red zone. I feel for everyone who is out of work, unemployment benefits are a bitch to get at a good time and unemployment systems have been totally overrun. How the fuck are people trying to work from home and deal with small children? Jesus....

Shit sandwich. Fuck me, I might even push my GF (when I see her in RL next) to move with me and get the fuck out of such a populated area.
 

Trisolarian

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It's so warm and nice outside now in Paris! I really need to take advantage of the possibility of doing exercise outside everyday.
I hear you. Try to go at night, if you're able to/safe to. So much crowding these days.

I'm an avid hiker/walking around town person, going back far far before this pandemic thing happened. Year round too, which means that in some ways prime, peaceful walking/hiking is over but the clean smelling and fresh air make up for that :)

Worried about being forced onto sidewalks now that all county and state parks in NJ are closed and most municipal parks have followed suit. Shit is bad, I know but I would have loved to hear that parks that were TRAILS ONLY would still be open. I know logically why they are not but logic isn't lifting my mood any.

Also, I'm a bit pissed at all the shit flinging online around the closure of the parks and how quick some people are to say "SELFISH" 'You re the reason people are dying' and other shit. Like, just because you're allergic to exercise and haven't been on a trail in your entire life, doesn't mean the rest of us can't grieve over one more thing lost. Not all of us unhappy about this are just sitting at home with light work tasks, many of us are under more pressure than ever bc of circumstances and are still onsite to boot. Not to mention those with young families.

/Rant.

 
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What if I tell you:
You can right now live in a free country, with good healthcare, strong weapon laws, a good free education system, a socialistic oriented government (in comparison to the U.S.) and 25 brands of tomato sauce. Europe is full of them.
There are still a lot of things to improve, but the U.S. have long lost the right the be brought up as a positive example for societies.
If the U.S. do something one way, you probably want to take another course.
 

Wildebeet

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What if I tell you:
You can right now live in a free country, with good healthcare, strong weapon laws, a good free education system, a socialistic oriented government (in comparison to the U.S.) and 25 brands of tomato sauce. Europe is full of them.
There are still a lot of things to improve, but the U.S. have long lost the right the be brought up as a positive example for societies.
If the U.S. do something one way, you probably want to take another course.
But I'd want to suggest that we don't conflate the hugely diverse people on this vast continent with an east coast government or whoever is president at the time. That's not society. That's not people. That's just the government.
 

Trisolarian

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NJ now has over 55,000 cases, almost 2,000 in our state have died. Flags everywhere are at half mast and rightfully fucking so.

Random corona-Friday thoughts

-Fucking weird to be alone in the office, in a nearly abandoned office building surrounded and connected by other nearly abandoned office buildings and one totally (today) abandoned warehouse?! Makes for pleasant lunch walks tho.

-Is it good or bad that I'm communicating better with my boss now that we're only in contact via email?

-Just because someone is emotionally upset at something doesn't mean that they don't logically understand why it had to happen that way and that said person wouldn't make the correct, logical choice if they had to.

-Fuck Reddit. If I have to hear one more person admonish another for being 'selfish'.... Newsflash, EVERY human being is selfish on some level, including you fuckwad.

- Wake up and smell the fucking class warfare. From now until democratic socialism no politician can say jack about the American dream, upward mobility or that we're all in this together without setting off lie detectors in the basement office of a FBI office in Alaska.

- If they are running E-Sports versions of Nascar, is there a reason MLB can't televise matches of The Show played by MLB players???? Majority of MLB players are early 30s and younger so they all know their way around a PS4

-In two months, I'm going to cut my dad off for a few weeks if I hear him say A WORD about how great a job Trump did that only 100,000 people died because 'It was under projections'. Maybe I should ask my mom (English major, book fiend) to force read him 1984, 'Clockwork Orange' style, so he understands the game that Trump is playing with this shit.

Yes, I'm bored.

EDIT

-Final thought: Lol, anyone in the USA remember the Impeachment thing?? Legit haven't thought about it in weeks.
 
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NarohDethan

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- If they are running E-Sports versions of Nascar, is there a reason MLB can't televise atches of The Show played by MLB players???? Majority of MLB players are early 30s and younger so they all know their way around a PS4
LigaMX (soccer league) is starting a FIFA tournament today lol
 

Swenhir

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-Just because someone is emotionally upset at something doesn't mean that they don't logically understand why it had to happen that way and that said person wouldn't make the correct, logical choice if they had to.

-Fuck Reddit. If I have to hear one more person admonish another for being 'selfish'.... Newsflash, EVERY human being is selfish on some level, including you fuckwad.
Emotional intelligence is an undervalued aspect of people. No, there is nothing wrong with being selfish, or alternatively-worded, self-preserving, healthy and kind toward yourself. Selfish is often misused as a manipulative, shaming accusation.
 
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There is nothing wrong with anything, as long as you do not harm or cross the freedom of other people. So yes, some kind of selfishness is normal and even healthy. But as with everything, a certain amount of moderation and pure logical thinking is key to achieve a vital middle ground. We, as mankind, would not have been able to come together and achieve anything without the will and understanding that it's sometimes worth to sacrifice a little bit of self-interest for a common goal. We are free to make those kind of decisions in our modern, free societies on a daily basis and that's okay and how it should be.

If we are talking about people being selfish because of breaking lock downs:
Keep in mind that not everything might be as it seems. Somebody constantly spending every single minute outside, despite extreme lock-down measures might seem unreasonable. But maybe he/she is just escaping an even worse situation at home? There is enough alcoholism, violence and even worse things that are happening in small and big apartments. Current lock downs might be hell on earth for many people, for very different reasons than the pandemic. You never know.

-Is it good or bad that I'm communicating better with my boss now that we're only in contact via email?
Means that you both have more time to rationalize and organize thoughts maybe?
Seems to work for some people, not for me though. I'm way to hot headed.
 

Trisolarian

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68,500 people in NJ are confirmed to have it, probably closer to 500,000 actually have or have had it.

2800 people dead.

We'll be at over 3.000 dead by the end of the week.

Work. Home. Work. Home. Work. Home. Work, going out for something, dealing with the terror of currently shopping, Home.

Live stream of newphews, video chat only with GF, if I'm lucky I get a photo of one of my friend's dog, might catch one of them on Steam....

Someone said something smart online a little while back, they described the mix of cabin fever, boredom and terror as 'plague dread'.

An apt term if I've ever heard one.

So one more month of lockdown in France. Only schools will reopen on 11th of may but other public places will remain closed.
This is a light in the tunnel there. Better than no light.
 
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yuraya

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Really weird seeing Trump continue to bring up sports in his conferences. Like who even gives a shit? Don't know if those sports owners are just asking him to speak this positive bullshit or if he is really that delusional because I don't see how you can have large gatherings of that scale happen again until there is a vaccine.

Imagine NFL season starting soon and you get a stadium with like 70k people in it. And that is just one of like 14 games every week. All it would take is a few dozen infected people going to these games and breathing all over other people for 4hrs sitting in the stadiums. They will infect thousands with how contagious this is and those thousands will go home and infect millions. One NFL sunday weekend right now would create several new outbreaks and epicenters for this virus.

Just imagining how bad it would have been if the NHL and NBA didn't cancel their seasons at the time they did. If they continued playing their games for just another week or two it would have probably added on hundreds of thousands of deaths to the current total. Sitting there in these arenas and stadiums breathing air that is circulated with big air conditioning fan systems. Its a literal virus petri dish.
 

NarohDethan

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Really weird seeing Trump continue to bring up sports in his conferences. Like who even gives a shit? Don't know if those sports owners are just asking him to speak this positive bullshit or if he is really that delusional because I don't see how you can have large gatherings of that scale happen again until there is a vaccine.

Imagine NFL season starting soon and you get a stadium with like 70k people in it. And that is just one of like 14 games every week. All it would take is a few dozen infected people going to these games and breathing all over other people for 4hrs sitting in the stadiums. They will infect thousands with how contagious this is and those thousands will go home and infect millions. One NFL sunday weekend right now would create several new outbreaks and epicenters for this virus.

Just imagining how bad it would have been if the NHL and NBA didn't cancel their seasons at the time they did. If they continued playing their games for just another week or two it would have probably added on hundreds of thousands of deaths to the current total. Sitting there in these arenas and stadiums breathing air that is circulated with big air conditioning fan systems. Its a literal virus petri dish.
Trump has a small brain. Probs he just thinks about womenโ€™s asses, sports and mcdonalds
 

yuraya

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Trump has a small brain. Probs he just thinks about womenโ€™s asses, sports and mcdonalds
He seriously said in his conference how he is tired of watching 15 year old baseball games on tv and that sports must return. And people must be able to sit next to each other in the stadiums. And so they can't rip seats out of the stadiums.

He then praised Dana White and Vince McMahon for being great.

Wtf.
 
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Was blood donating yesterday. City + German Red Cross rented a congress center for two weeks and organized everything quiet well.

You had to make an online appointment, because they only allowed 6 donors at once (~every 15 minutes). You had to disinfect hands after every step (entering --> hand disinfection, registration --> hand disinfection, nurse appointment --> hand disinfection, doctor appointment --> hand disinfection etc.) they supplied donors with masks, everything was spaced out very generously, everything was planed so people do not walk into each other, even entry and exit points were different.
We had free drinks, but there was no cafeteria as normal. Instead people got a generous amount of chocolate to take home. Which makes sense.
I even saw some teenagers (16+), which was nice to see.

For the rest "Gaben Zรคune" (Picket Presents) seem to be growing quiet nicely in our city. People are hanging supply bags at certain places (e.g. bridges, main market place, train stations) for homeless and other people in need. You are starting to notice those "presents" more and more while moving through the city. It's not really allowed and considered littering, but the city is closing both eyes. All they are asking is for the bags to be hanged, because otherwise rats could reach it at night (should something not be taken). Also everything needs to be packed, in case it rains. People self wrote signs to remind others of those two rules. It's Germany, we needs our signs I guess. ยฏ\(ใƒ„)/ยฏ

And for the last good news: first french patient that our city took in recovered and should be able to go home soon. Which is also encouraging!

People are moving carefully now, you feel that most understand how important distancing is. But on the brighter side, my region might, very closely scratch by without overburdening hospitals and making a selection of patients necessary. Hopefully.
 
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Meanwhile here in France, if I want to do a blood test, the lab has not changed anything from its usual set-up, which means waiting for potentially more than an hour in a crowded room with other people.

I called them to know if there was any change, such as appointments to ensure that people arrive smoothly during the whole morning. Nope. That means that if you go there at 11 a.m. and you are lucky, there is no queue. If you are unlucky, potentially 1h30 of queue time. Same if you go there at 8 a.m., which is the most comfortable time because you need to be fasting before the test.

Gambling with queue times, or skipping blood tests? What to do?
 
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NarohDethan

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I wonder why people are fixiated with โ€˜the economyโ€™. Pretty sure I would rather not die than going into a Best Buy to get a TV freely.
 
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I'd go, check how long the line is and make a decision based on that and on how important the test itself is. If the center isn't hours away...
Right. I went there early, and maybe I was lucky, maybe people are too afraid to come as usual, but the waiting room was mostly empty, so it was quick.

I will tell you all next Tuesday whether I feel sick.
 
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Swenhir

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I wonder why people are fixiated with โ€˜the economyโ€™. Pretty sure I would rather not die than going into a Best Buy to get a TV freely.
The economy has become shorthand for "guarantee that there will be food and jobs so you can pay rent". I don't personally agree with this and think the issue is that while indeed the markets and economy will in all likelihood tank, this seems like 1%ers wanting to make their loss ours.

You know, the usual : capitalism to channel the gains and socialism to spread the losses.
 
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Germany is starting up to open up, a tiny bit.

  • Shops with a maximum retail space of 800m^2. But only if they have a "convincing" sanitation concept.
  • graduation classes in schools.

But to be honest, the lock-down was never as extreme over here as in other countries. You were always allowed to go out and spend as much time outside as you want. But the maximum group size is two and shops are closed. You are allowed to visit your life partners (if you do not live together), do sports etc.

To quote our government: "What we've reached is ice thin and could shatter any minute. If necessary things will be rolled back asap."
 

Swenhir

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Germany is starting up to open up, a tiny bit.

  • Shops with a maximum retail space of 800m^2. But only if they have a "convincing" sanitation concept.
  • graduation classes in schools.

But to be honest, the lock-down was never as extreme over here as in other countries. You were always allowed to go out and spend as much time outside as you want. But the maximum group size is two and shops are closed. You are allowed to visit your life partners (if you do not live together), do sports etc.

To quote our government: "What we've reached is ice thin and could shatter any minute. If necessary things will be rolled back asap."
I don't agree with Merkel and the whole Austerity thing has been a disaster from what I can tell but her tackling of this crisis, as a scientist and a leader has been pretty impressive.
 
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I don't agree with Merkel and the whole Austerity thing has been a disaster from what I can tell but her tackling of this crisis, as a scientist and a leader has been pretty impressive.
To be fair, the whole government is doing surprisingly well and all parties are working together, listening to scientists and act rationally, in the grand scheme of things. There are some outliers here and there though.
But the general stance seems to be: "Whatever needs to be done to prevent a selection of patients."
I always thought a federal system could not work in a mayor crisis, but I'm carefully optimistic. It's slow, but if decision makers aren't complete idiots, things seem to be doable.

Opening schools, even in very limited ways, will be difficult though. Like you have a lot of older teachers that can not be used, how do you organize in-building traffic, breaks, sport, lunch?
I'm not sure schools are able to prepare in two weeks, tbh. Not all of them.

The same goes for universities... Some courses can't be hold online. Do you postpone them? Split them? Extend semesters? What about canteens? What about older personal?

Just opening things isn't viable imo. There need to be requirements and a lot of planning to be done. Solution needs to be sometimes unique and improvisation is currently key.
 
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Monooboe

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Maybe it isn't essential work but had a hours long photo shoot today! Great to be shooting again. While it isn't money but more of an exchange of services, she is a professional massage therapist. First time getting a pro massage! (Not that kind of pro)
 
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Swenhir

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Maybe it isn't essential work but had a hours long photo shoot today! Great to be shooting again. While it isn't money but more of an exchange of services, she is a professional massage therapist. First time getting a pro massage! (Not that kind of pro)
I am deathly jealous. Two years traveling, my back and neck desperately need that. Good for you :p.
 
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crimsonheadGCN

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The promotional material said the rally would take place Sunday morning at 11 a.m. on the Conference House lawn in Tottenville.

"No mask needed. Bring your children. Non-essential workers. If youโ€™re sick still come, itโ€™s your right!โ€ stated the fliers.
It's amazing how stupid this is.
 
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Trisolarian

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It's Astroturfing, which makes it even more aggravating.
Majority of people in NJ and NYC not stupid enough to go to such a rally. This shit is REALLY REAL here and we all see it.

Midwest, maybe it hasn't touched you.

NYC and NJ? Holy fuck, we've been touched all right...

88,800 positive (from March 4th to now) and 4,377 deaths (also from March 4th to now)

Dour moods all around. :(

Also, gas about to be cheap as fucky-do in like a week, nowhere I can fucking go. Library? Friends place? Park of any kind? Restaurant? Older relative? Another city? A college? College town? Mall? Arcade? Gym? Nephews? Historical site? (NJ/PA/NY have killer historical sites) Museum? It goes on and on.....Sigh. Depressed college me would have loved not having to go anywhere, just sink into games and the internet..... Far more functional adult me... Not so much. Hell, end of Feb I went on a work trip that was 8 hour drive both ways and got a bit of time to explore a new state for the first time! Two weeks later....
 
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Trisolarian

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France is three weeks away from opening up again, somehow it feels too early.
What are you guys opening up first?

Apparently in NJ there is a plan to open up stuff but we haven't heard it yet..... Will be good to hear. People need hope.

Also, oil price war occurring atm, US industry possibly fucked, I look forward to the tax increases in the future propping them up....
 

Monooboe

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What are you guys opening up first?

Apparently in NJ there is a plan to open up stuff but we haven't heard it yet..... Will be good to hear. People need hope.

Also, oil price war occurring atm, US industry possibly fucked, I look forward to the tax increases in the future propping them up....
They will open up schools. Other publics stuff will remain closed. I'm guessing people will still continue to stay home more than before the outbreak.
 
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yuraya

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I don't understand the logic behind reopening up states and countries when there is no vaccine.

All that graph statistics and flattening the curve talk....but if there is no vaccine then won't opening up everything literally be restarting those graphs? All it took was few people here n there to return to Washington State from China in late January which caused the outbreak in that state. Same thing with people returning to NY from Italy. And those cases lead to nearly a million cases in America now.

I mean the reason #s are becoming lower and lower is because the entire planet went into lockdown. If the world didn't do that we would probably be at Spanish flu #s by now with millions dead.

I just don't get it. Do these politicians who are pushing everything to reopen so soon think they will just cast some magical spell to get rid of this contagious ass virus? Some US states aren't even waiting until May 1st like the federal guideline suggested. Why are they so eager to open up so early?

All the efforts people made to stay home to contain this virus will be flushed down the toilet and the graphs will be restarted again thus causing even more economic downfall. :mad:
 
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Trisolarian

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They will open up schools. Other publics stuff will remain closed. I'm guessing people will still continue to stay home more than before the outbreak.
Same. Schools seem to be the first thing that is even being discussed. The plan here in New Jersey is to have kids wear masks of some kind, which isn't going to fly too great with the youngest crowd.

Many people will be too afraid to go out for a long time. People need to know they are safe before we can really open.
 
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NarohDethan

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I don't understand the logic behind reopening up states and countries when there is no vaccine.

All that graph statistics and flattening the curve talk....but if there is no vaccine then won't opening up everything literally be restarting those graphs? All it took was few people here n there to return to Washington State from China in late January which caused the outbreak in that state. Same thing with people returning to NY from Italy. And those cases lead to nearly a million cases in America now.

I mean the reason #s are becoming lower and lower is because the entire planet went into lockdown. If the world didn't do that we would probably be at Spanish flu #s by now with millions dead.

I just don't get it. Do these politicians who are pushing everything to reopen so soon think they will just cast some magical spell to get rid of this contagious ass virus? Some US states aren't even waiting until May 1st like the federal guideline suggested. Why are they so eager to open up so early?

All the efforts people made to stay home to contain this virus will be flushed down the toilet and the graphs will be restarted again thus causing even more economic downfall. :mad:
Gotta buy my fifth Tv from best buy man
 
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but if there is no vaccine then won't opening up everything literally be restarting those graphs?
Opening up will increase the infection rate again. But there are a couple problems:
The first mayor problem is that there is no way to eradicate the virus completely, independent of how long you keep a society on lock-down. It will eventually crawl back in, this is a world wide pandemic after all and we need to find a way to hold out till a vaccine or a very good treatment is found. The second mayor problem is: No state, no region, no country is able to survive a 12-15 months long lock-down till a vaccine arrives. Both problems combined form an incredible dilemma imo.

The plan in Germany to deal with this is to slightly modify the current Strategy in South Korea:

Step 1: Long Lock-down to bring down the infection rate below 1 and to build up necessary systems like testing facilities, respiratory stations, train people in contact tracing, start and invest into research, start bringing back certain health care related productions back from asia etc.

Step 2: Controlled and slow opening in phases. Be ready to role back and restart again. Make sure that there are new hygienic plans like distancing rules in shops, requirement to wear mask (announced in some states today), hygienic stations, costumer limits etc.
Other things can not be allowed though, like concerts, sport events, other large scale events (e.g. the german oktoberfest was canceled)

Step 3: Contact Tracing and wide Tests: Everybody who gets infected needs to be tested, put into private quarantine and every social contact needs to be traced, also isolated and tested. This has to be done thoroughly, no mistakes allowed.
This should have a similar effect like a wide lock-down, theoretically. You immediately cut off the infected from society and take the virus the ability to spread indefinitely.

Step 4: Wide Anti Body tests to find those who were infected without symptoms (problematic to find and to isolate, potential super spreaders and also a reason why the virus can not be eradicated). Immune people will get a free pass and are allowed to live a normal life again. Visit cinemas, restaurants etc.


-
Most people should be able to get through without getting the infection that way, but it is not the most optimal solution, as people will still get infected and some will unfortunately die. But it should allow for everybody to get the best treatment possible, without the need of a triage scenario.
At least that's the plan. Nobody knows what to do if it doesn't work tbh. Also nobody knows if it is really possible. We aren't talking about a couple more weeks here. We are talking about another year, at least.

To give you an idea how challenging this is: Germany has just ~83 million people and we'll need ~600k tests per week to make sure to catch every infected. Not because there will be 600k new infections per week (hopefully), but because everybody who had contact with an infected will need to be found and also tested (several times). We are currently at ~300k/week and in-country mask and disinfectant production has started but is still not where it needs to be.

600k is without sporting events btw. A single soccer match with ~70k fans in the stadium, who have families, co. workers and other social contacts would immediately overburden our testing capacities. Everybody in close proximity needs to be tested, after all.

Even shopping miles are a big problem! The best hope is that enough people willingly install a tracing app that uses Bluetooth to safe other smartphones in near proximity. This way you can send an anonymous warning, if you get infected and people who were close to you can get in touch with the health systems to get tested themselves.

The plan for the original tracing app was way more intrusive btw, but people were not happy with the government collection and saving data on servers. Understandably.

Also a lot more challenges and ideas that we are talking about.
But this is already too long and to make a long story short: Opening could be possible (not completely though), but it needs a lot of meticulous work and planning. Blindly opening is a no-go and will result in an increased death toll, which is not acceptable. But this strategy should be easily apply-able in the U.S. and Europe.

Other regions of the world? Especially third world countries? Nobody has come up with a good idea yet. It's a f* disaster in the making. It's depressing as fuck.
Instead of NATO or a UN rapid reaction force, we rather need a medical nato or something else with huge resources to help in regions that can not help themselves!
 
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Step 3: Contact Tracing and wide Tests: Everybody who gets infected needs to be tested, put into private quarantine and every social contact needs to be traced, also isolated and tested. This has to be done thoroughly, no mistakes allowed.
This should have a similar effect like a wide lock-down, theoretically. You immediately cut off the infected from society and take the virus the ability to spread indefinitely.
This is a part which I heard about but is not feasible. How do you trace people? Not everyone has a (smart)phone with a GPS.
 

Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
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This is a part which I heard about but is not feasible. How do you trace people? Not everyone has a (smart)phone with a GPS.
If the capability to track people like either existed or was deployed, I think the risk for it being abused by pretty much any government on earth is much too great. I don't think this should be done for that reason, unfortunately.
 
Mar 1, 2019
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This is a part which I heard about but is not feasible. How do you trace people? Not everyone has a (smart)phone with a GPS.
You send out a team that asks where the person was and with whom he had contact. Then you isolate and test every single one of his contacts.
It's a lot of manual labor.
 
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Hektor

CHIE SATONAKA ON STEAM
Nov 1, 2018
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Ok, so Germany now decided to make wearing masks a requirement for storesand public traffic

cool

especially with them being sold out everywhere

am i just supposed to like

not buy groceries

and starve

?
 
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