|OT| The PC Hardware Thread -- Buy/Upgrade/Ask/Answer

curi0usBystander

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Dec 5, 2018
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I'm gonna post this to finally (🤞) close my adventures against the randomly rebooting PC (and maybe in a distant future this helps someone).
After having replaced everything I could (either by using older parts, or asking for a replacement), the only component I had left to try was the CPU.
But since the stock is so low I didn't know if i could get a replacement fast. So i decided to do a post on ERA (in case someone had an idea).

And a couple of users told me to either try a different power outlet or a different power strip. So I decided to try get a different power strip, and effectively the problems stopped (it even survived 18 hours of stress testing and I ran the PC 24/7 for a whole week with 0 reboots).

I suspect that, had I built my pc a few days later, these problems would have started regardless (I mean, my monitor would occasionally go off for a second),

Anyways, my conclusion is if your pc randomly resets without any logic or pattern start looking outside of the pc.
 

EdwardTivrusky

See You Hyper-Toxic Computer Cowboy
Dec 8, 2018
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Yup, go back to basics and gradually move up the path is always a good idea and a good reminder. Even experienced engineers here have been given a lesson in "Start at the wall and follow the chain up." now and then.
 
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Copons

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Nov 12, 2018
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As an update to my PC not booting anymore (previous posts: original and update 1)

I've tried all the things I knew, and nothing changed.
I'm convinced the mobo is the culprit here, specifically its GPU slot.
Reasons:
  • 1 long beep + 2 short beeps is supposed to be a GPU problem
  • The EZ Debug led also shows a GPU problem
  • Tried reseating the GPU
  • Tried using the old GPU (which was working fine on the old PC)
  • Even tried without the GPU (which though might not be conclusive? My CPU doesn't have an integrated graphics, so the mobo might be complaining about that)

Tonight, if work and daughter give me a break, I'll tear down the PC, put back the old mobo with the new GPU, just for the sake of it (it will be fun though, since I've now updated the boot disk for GPT and I'm not sure the old mobo supports it ).
Then, tomorrow ill ask Amazon to replace the mobo... and the CPU too, as I've had a little mishap with it, but also at 35 years I'm not keen at learning how to remove and add the thermal paste, and I've no idea how I can actually remove the CPU and store it safely for a couple of weeks while Amazon receive my mobo and ships the replacement during black friday and the holidays...
 

EdwardTivrusky

See You Hyper-Toxic Computer Cowboy
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Sorry to hear it may be a bad mobo, hope the RMA goes well for ya!
Thermal paste is dead easy, even i can do it... but i'd rather not if i don't have to so i'm with you there.
 
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Copons

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Based remote working long meetings not requiring a webcam!
I used that time to rebuild the old PC with the new GPU and ta-da! I'm writing you from Windows!

So, at least we can exclude the GPU eh? :drinking-blob:

Also based Windows for flawlessly switching from Intel to AMD and back without giving the slightest fuck!
 
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Copons

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Little update.

So I've rebuilt the old PC with the new GPU.
Changed some BIOS settings to make it boot with the GPT disk I had to create for the new mobo. Windows did its magic to convert itself back from AMD to Intel. All was good.

Then, the second time I boot it: 4 beeps and black screen.
Anxiety spike through the roof.
I reboot again and it starts up just fine (and also anecdotally much quicker than it did on the new mobo, btw).

According to the internet (since the mobo manual doesn't list beep codes), it should be a "system timer failure", which according to the internet can mean anything and nothing.
For some folks it's a RAM thing, others send the mobo back (warranty ship sailed many years ago anyway 😅 ).

I've been turning it off and on again a few times in the last few hours, and I haven't heard the 4 beeps anymore.

But still, fuck me, I really don't need all this shit these days.
I hope the new parts replacements will work out of the box, and I can finally leave all this mess behind me once and for all.
Kinda think that for the next upgrade I'll just buy a pre-assembled 😢
 

BernardoOne

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Oct 19, 2018
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Gráfica EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition GAMING(2 anos garantia)
-Ryzen 2700
-Motherboard MSI X470 Gaming Pro
-Memória RAM HyperX Fury 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3200MHz CL18 Preta
HX432C18FB2K2/16
-3 x Ventoinha Nox Hummer H-fan 120 PWM
NXHUMMERF120P
-Disco Rígido 3.5" Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200RPM 64MB SATA III
ST1000DM010
-2 x SSD 2.5" Kingston A400 480GB TLC SATA
SA400S37/480G
-Caixa ATX Phanteks Eclipse P300 Tempered Glass com Janela Preta/Branca
-Fonte de Alimentação 750w GQ Gold Plus Modular
-Bluetooth Adapter

Vendo o pc só por 1100

Perifericos:
-Monitor AOC AGON AG241QX TN 23.8" QHD 16:9 144Hz FreeSync / G-SYNC Compatible
-Rato logitech G203
-Teclado Mecânico G.SKILL Ripjaws KM570 RGB PT Cherry MX Speed Silver
-Tapete Gembird GMB Gaming Pro XL
- Wrist Rest Sharkoon WR10 Preto
-Comando xbox one Bluetooth
-Headset HyperX Cloud 2.


For 1400€. What do you think ?
 
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ISee

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Gráfica EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition GAMING(2 anos garantia)
-Ryzen 2700
-Motherboard MSI X470 Gaming Pro
-Memória RAM HyperX Fury 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3200MHz CL18 Preta
HX432C18FB2K2/16
-3 x Ventoinha Nox Hummer H-fan 120 PWM
NXHUMMERF120P
-Disco Rígido 3.5" Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200RPM 64MB SATA III
ST1000DM010
-2 x SSD 2.5" Kingston A400 480GB TLC SATA
SA400S37/480G
-Caixa ATX Phanteks Eclipse P300 Tempered Glass com Janela Preta/Branca
-Fonte de Alimentação 750w GQ Gold Plus Modular
-Bluetooth Adapter

Vendo o pc só por 1100

Perifericos:
-Monitor AOC AGON AG241QX TN 23.8" QHD 16:9 144Hz FreeSync / G-SYNC Compatible
-Rato logitech G203
-Teclado Mecânico G.SKILL Ripjaws KM570 RGB PT Cherry MX Speed Silver
-Tapete Gembird GMB Gaming Pro XL
- Wrist Rest Sharkoon WR10 Preto
-Comando xbox one Bluetooth
-Headset HyperX Cloud 2.


For 1400€. What do you think ?
If it is a prebuild: Actually, very nicely priced and well put together.
If you are looking up parts yourself: Actually, very nicely priced and well put together.
:smiling-eyes:;)

Just some minor annotations, that can be ignored. You have a good build there.

-Depending on your region, a single Crucial MX500 1TB, could cost you the same as 2x Kingston A400. Just in case that's relevant.
-RAM is even officially supported by the Mainboard (y)
-MSI B450 Tomahawk and MSI X470 Gaming Pro have the same VRM design, but the heatsinks on the Tomahawk seem to be a bit bigger (once you ignore the plastic shroud around the IO). So if the B450 is cheaper, maybe consider it.
-The MSI x470 Gaming Pro Carboon AC seem to have a slightly better VRM design and comes with built in Bluetooth. So if it is about as expansive as the x470 gaming pro + the separate bluetooth adapter, consider taking the x470 Gaming Pro Carboon AC
-1080Ti is awesome, but if you can find a 2070s or 2080 for the same price, get them.
-There are new MAX versions of most MSI x470/b450 boards. They are the same, but come with a bigger 32mb bios chip (old is 16mb). Those bigger chips could come in handy once you decide to get a ryzen 3000 (maybe even ryzen 4000?) CPU.
 
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Durante

Durante

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First I wanted to say that it's much too expensive, but I assume all the peripherals are included?

It still seems a bit expensive for something presumably used?
I put together a PC (without peripherals) which matches or exceeds that build (i.e. newer/faster CPU, faster NVME SSD, larger HDD, newer ~same speed GPU) and it ends up at ~1200€: Comp Preisvergleich Geizhals Österreich
And that's with all new components. Of course I don't know what your exact local pricing would be.

Edit: I forgot the mainboard!
lol. somewhat embarrassing. That changes the value proposition a bit.

Also, is it used or not? I just assumed it is. If not, then some of the choices (like the SSDs and the GPU) don't make sense right now.
 

ISee

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First I wanted to say that it's much too expensive, but I assume all the peripherals are included?

It still seems a bit expensive for something presumably used?
I put together a PC (without peripherals) which matches or exceeds that build (i.e. newer/faster CPU, faster NVME SSD, larger HDD, newer ~same speed GPU) and it ends up at ~1200€: Comp Preisvergleich Geizhals Österreich
And that's with all new components. Of course I don't know what your exact local pricing would be.
I think you may have forgotten the mainboard ;)
Had something similar myself but wasn't able to get it down to 1100€. Which seems to be the price for the system without monitor and the peripherals.
 
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BernardoOne

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First I wanted to say that it's much too expensive, but I assume all the peripherals are included?

It still seems a bit expensive for something presumably used?
I put together a PC (without peripherals) which matches or exceeds that build (i.e. newer/faster CPU, faster NVME SSD, larger HDD, newer ~same speed GPU) and it ends up at ~1200€: Comp Preisvergleich Geizhals Österreich
And that's with all new components. Of course I don't know what your exact local pricing would be.

Edit: I forgot the mainboard!
lol. somewhat embarrassing. That changes the value proposition a bit.

Also, is it used or not? I just assumed it is. If not, then some of the choices (like the SSDs and the GPU) don't make sense right now.
1400€ with peripherals , 1100€ without. It's used but it's only been built 6 months ago
 

ISee

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1400€ with peripherals , 1100€ without. It's used but it's only been built 6 months ago
If it is used, with reduced warranty times. Haggle it down to 900€
It's used and you have no idea how hard it was oced.
For 1100€ you can get that stuff new.
 
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Theswweet

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Mar 12, 2019
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If anyone is looking for a laptop, Walmart has an absolutely unbeatable deal atm. $800, 9750H/1660 ti, 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD, and a 144hz display.


Also a 17" with a 1TB SSD and a 2060 for $1000
 
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gabbo

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This is what I'd be looking at replacing my current i53750/970/16gb ddr3 ram with, but i'll keep the drives, monitor, kb/m, and i can find a legit win10 on ebay, i'll go that route.If I could fit all of this into my Fractal Define R4, that's save me an extra $250-300, but im not sure if it would.

Would hope to ride out at least the cpu/mobo a console generation or so, any thoughts fellow hardware councilors?

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($234.99 @ Mike's Computer Shop)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard ($214.75 @ Vuugo)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($78.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB THICC II Video Card ($529.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 Rev. 2 ATX Full Tower Case ($249.99 @ Mike's Computer Shop)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
Total: $1308.71
 

Theswweet

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If you want the CPU to last a generation, I'd highly recommend springing for a 3700x. Next-gen consoles will be 8c/16t, so it's probably a good idea to try and match that.
 

gabbo

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If you want the CPU to last a generation, I'd highly recommend springing for a 3700x. Next-gen consoles will be 8c/16t, so it's probably a good idea to try and match that.
I guess it will depend on when AMD moves on from AM4. Has AMD confirmed whether Zen3 will use a new socket or not? if I can slot a 4XXX cpu into a 570. It'd go a long way to helping with an upgrade path.

I'm in no hurry and still saving for this build so I might know by the time it occurs
 

Theswweet

Dirty Weeb
Mar 12, 2019
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I guess it will depend on when AMD moves on from AM4. Has AMD confirmed whether Zen3 will use a new socket or not? if I can slot a 4XXX cpu into a 570. It'd go a long way to helping with an upgrade path.

I'm in no hurry and still saving for this build so I might know by the time it occurs
Zen 3 will be on AM4, so if you want to just slot a 4xxx series CPU in down the line, you should be fine doing so.
 

BernardoOne

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Oct 19, 2018
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Case: NZXT-H500 (black/red)
CPU: Intel i7-9700k
Fan: Noctua NH-D15
RAM: G.Skill 16GB DDR4 16Go 3200MHz
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070
Motherboard: Msi Z390-A Pro
SSD: Samsung SSD M.2 970 EVO
HD: Western digital 3,5'' - SATA - 1000 GB (1TB)

PERIFÉRICOS :

Mouse : Razer Mamba Wireless
Keyboard : Hyper X Alloy FPS
Webcam : Logitech C920 HD
Headset : Hyper X Cloud II

Also for 1400€. Better deal ?
 

ISee

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Case: NZXT-H500 (black/red)
CPU: Intel i7-9700k
Fan: Noctua NH-D15
RAM: G.Skill 16GB DDR4 16Go 3200MHz
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070
Motherboard: Msi Z390-A Pro
SSD: Samsung SSD M.2 970 EVO
HD: Western digital 3,5'' - SATA - 1000 GB (1TB)

PERIFÉRICOS :

Mouse : Razer Mamba Wireless
Keyboard : Hyper X Alloy FPS
Webcam : Logitech C920 HD
Headset : Hyper X Cloud II

Also for 1400€. Better deal ?
The PC, without peripherals costs about 1280€ new over here. Assuming it is a cheap 500W PSU, a cheap 3200MHz G.Skill kit with micron 16-18-18-38 and a 500GB 970Evo

For me, peripherals do not add much value.
Razer Mamba is ~40€ used, Cloud II is about 40€ used, Webcams cost 15€ new, Keyboard is 60€ used.
But I don't want to use headphones that were used by a sweaty, stranger and touch a mouse that he used after visiting pornhub.


If this is used, the person is asking you to pay full price for the PC and giving you about 50% discount on his used keyboard, headset and mouse.
But shop prices may be very different where you are. German market is rather cheap in comparison to some regions.
 

BernardoOne

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Oct 19, 2018
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The PC, without peripherals costs about 1280€ new over here. Assuming it is a cheap 500W PSU, a cheap 3200MHz G.Skill kit with micron 16-18-18-38 and a 500GB 970Evo

For me, peripherals do not add much value.
Razer Mamba is ~40€ used, Cloud II is about 40€ used, Webcams cost 15€ new, Keyboard is 60€ used.
But I don't want to use headphones that were used by a sweaty, stranger and touch a mouse that he used after visiting pornhub.


If this is used, the person is asking you to pay full price for the PC and giving you about 50% discount on his used keyboard, headset and mouse.
But shop prices may be very different where you are. German market is rather cheap in comparison to some regions.
Yeah, I live in Portugal. KuantoKusta | Comparador de Preços e Compras Online is our resource to find the cheapest price on our stores
 

ISee

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Yeah, I live in Portugal. KuantoKusta | Comparador de Preços e Compras Online is our resource to find the cheapest price on our stores
If 1400€ is your target, without a display:

R7 3700x = 340€
MSI B450 Tomahawk Max = 115€
2x8GB G.Skill Ripjaws V (F4-3200C16D-16GVGB) = 78€
Western Digital 1TB M.2 2280 SSD = 105€
Fractal Design Meshify C = 85€
BeQuiet Pure Power 11, 700W, 80+Gold = 95€
Asus 2070S Dual= 571€

Total: 1389€

Prices are actually not bad at all and pretty comparable!
 

BernardoOne

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Oct 19, 2018
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If 1400€ is your target, without a display:

R7 3700x = 340€
MSI B450 Tomahawk Max = 115€
2x8GB G.Skill Ripjaws V (F4-3200C16D-16GVGB) = 78€
Western Digital 1TB M.2 2280 SSD = 105€
Fractal Design Meshify C = 85€
BeQuiet Pure Power 11, 700W, 80+Gold = 95€
Asus 2070S Dual= 571€

Total: 1389€

Prices are actually not bad at all and pretty comparable!
I did forget to mention that the deal above includes a Benq Zowie 24" 144hz as well. Price is 1250€ without monitor
 

ISee

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Benq Zowie 24" 144hz
That's not saying much, but I remember BenQ zowie being part of the Nvidia branded 3D displays. They were okay for their time and are using pretty fast and bright TN panels . But with terrible colors and viewing angels. My brother had the Asus equivalent (same panel afaik), I never liked it tbh.
It is also probably lacking G-Sync / FreeSync support and therefore not a good 144Hz display. Reaching stable 144fps is no easy task, even on a 2080Ti. You'll either get tearing or you'll need to lock your FPS to 72 and use vsync.

I'm very sorry for being negative here, but a new 24", 144Hz Viewsonic XG2401 is just 210€. With probably a better TN panel and FreeSync (48-144Hz range). The BenQ is just not a good deal for 150€, used and without FreeSync.




If I'm right about the BenQ Display and it is what I think it is: I'd pay 70€, max. But I'd prefer a cheapo 100€ Samsung 1080p 60Hz display tbh.
 
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Copons

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So, I've sent the mobo and cpu back to amazon for replacement, but the cpu has gone out of stock.
Coincidentally, the Ryzen 2700 is now a cyber monday deal, and I'm wondering.

Should I wait for the 3600 to be available again, but probably not at the same price I paid for it the first time (175£, but full price 199£), or just get this 2700 for 140£ (full price 250£)?
There's even a 2700x for 165£, but I don't have an oc mobo afaik.

I have no idea how they compare in practice.
Any suggestions considering I would use the PC just for gaming?
 

ISee

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So, I've sent the mobo and cpu back to amazon for replacement, but the cpu has gone out of stock.
Coincidentally, the Ryzen 2700 is now a cyber monday deal, and I'm wondering.

Should I wait for the 3600 to be available again, but probably not at the same price I paid for it the first time (175£, but full price 199£), or just get this 2700 for 140£ (full price 250£)?
There's even a 2700x for 165£, but I don't have an oc mobo afaik.

I have no idea how they compare in practice.
Any suggestions considering I would use the PC just for gaming?
All Ryzen CPUs are unlocked and all mobos should allow for ram and cpu overclocking.
Intel trained people for nearly 10 years to all core OC their CPUs, but all core overclocking is different with Ryzen. It's best to let them do their own stuff, especially ryzen 3000. Those CPUs will switch frequencies every couple of ms, reaching way beyond what's possible on an all core oc basis. It's actually quiet amazing.

Short video demonstration with a pulling rate of 500ms.

For Ryzen 2000, the best you can do is apply a negative voltage offset and allow the CPU to auto boost higher that way. Unluckily that doesn't work with ryzen 3000 currently. It might with the newest agesa 1004b microcode, it is supposed to have PBO + negative voltage working correctly. But it's not available for my mainboard, so I can't test it.

Ryzen 2700 vs 3600 is a good question. I would not recommend switching from the 2700x to a 3600, but I'd recommend getting the 3600 over 2700x when building new. Single core performance is faster on the ryzen 3000, but that's not even the reason. You'll have a lot less problems with ram compatibility with the ryzen 3600.
Ram speed and timings are important for Ryzen 2000 and 3000 performance, even more so than quenching another 100mhz out of the CPU itself.
Ryzen 2000 was better than ryzen 1000 in that regard, but you had to choose specific ram and play around with timings in bios. Ryzen 3000 can deal with nearly everything and it is mostly as easy as enabling the docp/xmp profile.
 
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ISee

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I think I won the silicon lottery with my 3900x ryzen. 4,2 ghz all core clocks, no problemo and 4616 mhz turbo boost single core.
Nice, but 4616Mhz single core and 4.2GHz all core in what? CB20? Windows idling?
 

ISee

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all core with cinebench20 yes
That's huge indeed! Congratulations!
I'm only reaching 4125MHz in CB20 all core (but not for the entire test, it will clock down to 4100MHz) and my TimeSpy peak single core clock is 4550MHz.
What's your CB20 and Timespy CPU score?
 
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JackPineSavage

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That's huge indeed! Congratulations!
I'm only reaching 4125MHz in CB20 all core (but not for the entire test, it will clock down to 4100MHz) and my TimeSpy peak single core clock is 4550MHz.
What's your CB20 and Timespy CPU score?
cb20 was around 7500 irc but i removed overclock and it's 7224 now. time spy cpu score is 13 142 but that run had only 4 591 MHz . I got Maximum turbo core clock 4 616 MHz with fire strike ultra and it's physics score was 29 653.
 

ISee

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4.2 was overclocked? I see.
7200-7300 is good and in the upper regions for stock 3900x scores. The same goes for the 13142 Time Spy score.
Last question: What kind of RAM are you using?

Tip about overclocking: Try per CCX overclocking (e.g. in ryzen master) Sounds like your first CCD is very good (100mhz peak faster than mine). I'm able to push some cores to 4475MHz and some just to 4175MHz OCs. But in general I'd suggest leaving it alone. AGESA 1003ABBA +Windows 1909 + the newest AMD chipset drivers can really push 3900x performance way above what's possible with an all core OC (in games).
 
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JackPineSavage

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4.2 was overclocked? I see.
7200-7300 is good and in the upper regions for stock 3900x scores. The same goes for the 13142 Time Spy score.
Last question: What kind of RAM are you using?

Tip about overclocking: Try per CCX overclocking (e.g. in ryzen master) Sounds like your first CCD is very good. I'm able to push some cores to 4475MHz and some just to 4175MHz OCs. But in general I'd suggest leaving it alone. AGESA 1003ABBA +Windows 1909 + the newest AMD chipset drivers can really push 3900x performance way above what's possible with an all core OC (in games).
I think I'm satisfied with the normal boost settings for now lol. maybe I'll try per ccx overclocking someday but for now i'll let it run on it's own. My ram is 2*16gb of 3600mhz cl16 trident z neo.
 
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ISee

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I think I'm satisfied with the normal boost settings for now lol. maybe I'll try per ccx overclocking someday but for now i'll let it run on it's own. My ram is 2*16gb of 3600mhz cl16 trident z neo.
lol, good pick! :giggle:
I was able to push those kits to 3600cl14 (with DRAM calculator for Ryzen settings).
Should push you close to 7300 in CB20 and 13500+ in Time Spy. If you want.
Enjoy your PC.
 
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ISee

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Thanks!
i just tried prime95 and all cores hit 4205 for a moment and highest temps were 78 °C goddamn.
Yeah, AVX loads. It's normal, seriously do not worry or even think about it. We are talking about a 12core CPU, 78°C is pretty good for that and way below what's dangerous for the chip.
 
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JackPineSavage

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Yeah, AVX loads. It's normal, seriously do not worry or even think about it. We are talking about a 12core CPU, 78°C is pretty good for that and way below what's dangerous for the chip.
yeah I just wanted to test how the noctua cooler handles the absolute maximum stress and it seems fine to me.
 
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ISee

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970 to 1080 is a huge performance upgrade and in general: a 1080 is everything but not weak :)
You'll have plenty of good options next year with new RDNA 2 and new RTX cards! That battle between AMD and Nvidia is something I'm already looking forward to tbh.
 
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JackPineSavage

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the best thing about that 1080 was that I only paid 200€ for it. founders edition with a blower cooler but the noise ain't that bad imo.
 
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