Community MetaSteam | June 2023 - halfway through the year

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didamangi

Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit.
Nov 16, 2018
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We meme, but this shit will kill the growth of PC
Looks like the majority of PC Gamers don't really care if they had to toggle ultra textures to high if we're looking at the sales.

For enthusiast with limited budget it's worrying though. Lowering texture quality is the last thing I want to do in a PC game.
 

Alextended

Segata's Disciple
Jan 28, 2019
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It was discussed in the video I posted earlier:

Apparently there is both a "soft lock-on", similar to what was in the previous AC games, and a Souls-like "hard lock-on".

When in soft-lock you can have your missiles carpet all nearby enemies, for instance.

It seems you'll need to use both modes, depending on situation.
I don't watch youtubers, I just watched raw footage. Some times you don't want to lock on in Souls games either, it's still a core aspect of their combat and one that seems to be a core aspect in AC even though previously it was all about manually trying to bring the enemy within your generous crosshair and fire and forget weapon range while dodging theirs as you boosted/flew around each other. If anything this looks like a less melee heavy and somewhat more down to earth (or just as over the top in different ways) Gundam VS game in terms of controls now, focused on the Zelda style lock on strafe shenanigans with constant boosting around replacing the rolling/backflipping/jumping in the fantasy games with this system. Maybe the mission and game structure is standard AC but the moment to moment gameplay is way different. It may become more popular now but it might have also been possible to make it more popular with a more manual feel, just improved from previous games and with these new production values that elevate it in people's eyes. I'm fine with either style though we lack in simy mech games nowadays, full on action stuff where they control more like other third person action games with thrusters than vehicles are more common.
 
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hersheyfan

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Jul 17, 2021
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Also I am getting a little tempted to buy a PS5 for FFXVI. The hype is starting to get a little too much with all the positive impressions from the demo. I need to withstand this fomo because I really don't see myself using the PS5 for much else so it will collect dust. There is a steam summer sale coming in a few weeks too. And a giant onslaught of games this fall. The money can be spent on much better things than Square bs exclusivity. I love their games but I never loved them enough to buy a console for them. Would be nice if Sony did a better showcase showing all their future shit like MS just did with Xbox. A slim announcement would have gone a long way too because I really don't want to buy dated assembly this far into the gen.
Don't buy a PS5 just for FFXVI.

While it does appear to be an excellent game based on the demo (that was one helluva demo, one of the biggest 180s I've ever done on a product), the game's performance on PS5 is quite bad - the 30fps quality mode made me too dizzy to play more than 5 minutes, while the unlocked framerate performance mode looks like its smeared in Vaseline (with notable dips too, its not 60fps).

While Im quite excited to play the game at some point, the performance issues eventually pushed me into waiting for a Steam version.
 

Lashley

My ho ho hoes 🎅
I watched like 30 seconds of Armored Core VI gameplay somewhere on Youtube and noped out. It looked really good and I just don't want to see anymore of it. I know I will play it and some games you just don't wanna see/spoil things for yourself. FromSoft is one of those devs. A big blowout and deepdive makes sense for some games (like Starfield) but it really doesn't make sense for most others.

Also I am getting a little tempted to buy a PS5 for FFXVI. The hype is starting to get a little too much with all the positive impressions from the demo. I need to withstand this fomo because I really don't see myself using the PS5 for much else so it will collect dust. There is a steam summer sale coming in a few weeks too. And a giant onslaught of games this fall. The money can be spent on much better things than Square bs exclusivity. I love their games but I never loved them enough to buy a console for them. Would be nice if Sony did a better showcase showing all their future shit like MS just did with Xbox. A slim announcement would have gone a long way too because I really don't want to buy dated assembly this far into the gen.
I enjoyed it and thought it was good, but it is not buy a $500 console good
 
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NarohDethan

There was a fish in the percolator!
Apr 6, 2019
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So what you're saying is my planned 4070ti purchase is dumb and I should rebudget for a 4080 at minimum? :weary-face:

These VRAM troubles nowadays are nuts.
Ultimately if you're budget constrained buy whatever you can afford. I think when people say stuff like 'x card is poor value for money' they are comparing it with options that might not be available to you anymore. Unless I want to mess with used cards, which I don't, because PC gaming is already a pain in the ass to deal to add another layer of possible failure, the 4070 ti would be an upgrade for me.

If money isn't a problem, just cry once and get the best you can.
 

Vantr

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2021
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So what you're saying is my planned 4070ti purchase is dumb and I should rebudget for a 4080 at minimum? :weary-face:

These VRAM troubles nowadays are nuts.
Just upgrade to whatever your budget is at the point you want to upgrade. As long as you're jumping like 2-3 gens I think it will be worthwhile. I'm going from a 1070 to a 4070ti so it'll be a huge jump in performance for me so I'm content with that despite possible vram issues. In the end running CP2077 4k RTX Ultra is just a very nice thing to have isn't going to change if a game is fun or not for me.
 

Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
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Another game to feed the 2023 vram anxiety.
It's interesting (and sadly, to me, unsurprising) how people not me were so certain that low-level APIs will allow game developers to better manage resources, but it turns out that most of them are not nearly as good at (or sufficiently motivated to, or given sufficient time to) managing texture residency as e.g. Nvidia is in their DX11 driver, which does all of that for them. Who would have thought that it's a good idea to let an elite team of engineers implement something once and then benefit from it across thousands of applications -- even if it's only 90% as good as what you could do with unlimited time and a bespoke solution -- rather than trying to do it yourself! If that was the case it would be good software development practice to use well-established and optimized libraries rather than rolling your own. Oh... wait.

As some game's patches (and other game's out of the box performance) have shown, this isn't really a hardware issue. It's an issue of your texture management strategy being "keep everything in VRAM all the time".
 

「Echo」

Reaper on Station。
Nov 1, 2018
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Mt. Whatever
It's interesting (and sadly, to me, unsurprising) how people not me were so certain that low-level APIs will allow game developers to better manage resources, but it turns out that most of them are not nearly as good at (or sufficiently motivated to, or given sufficient time to) managing texture residency as e.g. Nvidia is in their DX11 driver, which does all of that for them. Who would have thought that it's a good idea to let an elite team of engineers implement something once and then benefit from it across thousands of applications -- even if it's only 90% as good as what you could do with unlimited time and a bespoke solution -- rather than trying to do it yourself! If that was the case it would be good software development practice to use well-established and optimized libraries rather than rolling your own. Oh... wait.

As some game's patches (and other game's out of the box performance) have shown, this isn't really a hardware issue. It's an issue of your texture management strategy being "keep everything in VRAM all the time".
How much of this could Nvidia themselves solve via driver updates? :thinking-face: I realize of course Nvidia probably doesn't have motivation for it, the capitalist way is just to force people to buy bigger VRAM cards and make them more money.

But is there something that prevents Nvidia's Game-Ready drivers from doing self VRAM cleaning/scheduling or something?
 
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Knurek

OG old coot
Oct 16, 2018
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How much of this could Nvidia themselves solve via driver updates? :thinking-face: I realize of course Nvidia probably doesn't have motivation for it, the capitalist way is just to force people to buy bigger VRAM cards and make them more money.
For games using DX12/Vulkan? There's nothing NVIDIA can do here.
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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Started a new game on a whim, Shadow Tactics ! I loved the demo years ago and I… hate it ?
I wouldn’t go there but yeah, maybe I’m just terrible at it but it’s a die & retry fest. It gets old quick.

I hate the UX though, when you ape the presentation of a RTS, don’t get cute and change the classic left click use. I’m not controlling who I think 50% of the time, ugh.
 

didamangi

Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit.
Nov 16, 2018
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Pro Pinball series is discounted on GOG finally, last sale was 2021. Probably one of the best pinball series games ever. And still holds up quite well graphically (at 1600x1200 max res)


Technically, timeshock is on steam with this.

But unfortunately it's been abandoned.
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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Any great PC streamers ? Ideally with good chunky CRPG coverage ?
I lost hope for the press to make a real PC centric site, so right now I’m juggling my French PC ex-journo streamer, Akwartz, and Mortismal (not a homerun but good).

On the misjudgement side, I watched a SsethTzeentach video and it was full of edgy jokes. Watchable one time, but they are seemingly all dripping in the same RPGCodex x 4chan shit humor. Ow the edge.
And Youtube being Youtube, guess who is now front and center in my reccomendations.
 
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spindoctor

MetaMember
Jun 9, 2019
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So hands-on Starfield impressions are flowing in from IGN and the likes and it's nothing short of effusively glowing.

It's kinda got me worried about a reverse backlash. The hype machine feels like it's been gaining crazy momentum since the 45 min deep dive video last week.

Like people's expectations have done a full swing from, "OMG BGS SUXS SO BAD >>> FALLOUT 4 & 76 <<< LOL" to "OMG STARFIELD GAME OF FOREVER!!!"

The swing is too fast and hard. At the end of the day it's still going to be a BGS joint that comes prepackaged with all the pros & cons. Starfield looks ambitious as hell, but the fundamental framework is still 100% BGS RPG.

It's just going to be insufferable to hear all the bitching & moaning from the crowd who was never kind to BGS to begin with, but may have been carried along with the Starfield hype cycle, after they realize that they are still dealing with the BGS limitations that their extraordinary open-world ambitions inevitably surface. Bugs, anomalies, framerate hitches & stuff.

My story is that for the past 2 decades I never stopped loving BGS, from Morrowind straight through Fallout 4. I love inhabiting their worlds and have always treated them like true roleplaying im-sims first and foremost, with any "official/side questlines" and such just being icing on the cake. In that sense BGS has never let me down. And any kind of jank I've met along the way has come with the full understanding of the fragile state of so many moving parts the Creation Engine is employing at any given moment. BGS games have an exceptional amount of engine break points because it's doing an exceptional amount of calculations, far more ambitious than genre peers.

So I'm all good either way. BGS is my favorite AAA studio and I'll likely pump hundreds of hours into Starfield, just like I did Fallout 4 and Skyrim before. I don't need to be "convinced" that BGS is back because they never went anywhere to begin with.

But I can't help but shudder at all those lapsed vocal-minority gamers coming back only to turn around with their, "BGS are hacks that ruined my life." s**t all over again when Starfield inevitably proves to be less polished that a supremely linier, guided AAA(A) release like God of War.

Thank god the few sites I frequent have an Ignore button, lol.
I mentioned this a few months ago but I'll say it again; I am expecting the backlash/hate for Starfield to be orders of magnitude higher than it was for previous iterations. Partly because I have noticed a massive increase in negativity in the gaming community in the last 3-4 years. Maybe it was always the case or maybe I've been unlucky with the choice of games I've paid attention to when I was playing them, but man it has felt like everyone who talks about any game just hates it with all their being. It is actually exhausting and unproductive to go to the subreddit of a game nowadays because of how acrimonious and hostile the environment is. The second reason is that a significant percentage of the gaming population will not be able to play the game on their favourite platform and will lash out because of that. I mean people have always made fun and memes out of BGS bugs and glitches but it was always seemingly in good fun. This time around I expect that those kinds of flaws will be amplified exponentially by people with malicious and mean spirited intent. Extreme case of sour grapes if you will.

I've mentioned previously that I'm personally not thrilled with the direction that BGS games have taken since Morrowind. I believe they have reduced the complexity and depth of their design by eliminating classes for example or the ridiculously one dimensional dialogue 'choices' in Fallout 4. This is all personal preference of course, and I cannot deny that the changes they have made have been received extremely well from the community at large as is evidenced by their phenomenal and growing success ever since Oblivion came out. So, in the 8 odd years since Fallout 4 came out, I have realigned my expectations from BGS and I am now playing Starfield for the one of a kind game world they will create and not necessarily for the kind of reactive/deep roleplaying experience I would expect from Obsidian for example.

So, in short, I am quite excited to play it as well and have already pre-ordered it (you can get it for 16% off on GMG). I hope that they will make strides to improve their visuals, combat, script and general stability from past releases. I hope the game is as mod friendly as their previous games have been. And I absolutely know not to engage in online discussions for the game anywhere at all ;)

So what you're saying is my planned 4070ti purchase is dumb and I should rebudget for a 4080 at minimum? :weary-face:

These VRAM troubles nowadays are nuts.
This is a bit glib but I would wager nobody who has bought a 4080/4090 actually regrets their purchase. Yea, It hurts a lot when you are clicking the 'buy' button and the weeks leading up to the decision are agonising as you try to convince yourself to spend that much money, but all of that goes away the moment you slot the GPU into the PCIe slot. It feels real good when you boot up a game, any game, and max out everything and then you see your framerate is still twice as high as your monitor's refresh rate. (This of course applies to games that are working as intended and not garbage like Last of Us for example, which PC gamers should not have supported, but that's another conversation). The point is that that yes, it costs a lot, but you are buying an incredible piece of technology which is so much better than what came before it.

It's interesting (and sadly, to me, unsurprising) how people not me were so certain that low-level APIs will allow game developers to better manage resources, but it turns out that most of them are not nearly as good at (or sufficiently motivated to, or given sufficient time to) managing texture residency as e.g. Nvidia is in their DX11 driver, which does all of that for them. Who would have thought that it's a good idea to let an elite team of engineers implement something once and then benefit from it across thousands of applications -- even if it's only 90% as good as what you could do with unlimited time and a bespoke solution -- rather than trying to do it yourself! If that was the case it would be good software development practice to use well-established and optimized libraries rather than rolling your own. Oh... wait.

As some game's patches (and other game's out of the box performance) have shown, this isn't really a hardware issue. It's an issue of your texture management strategy being "keep everything in VRAM all the time".
Just want to step back from this particular issue and share some thoughts. I know a lot of gamers hate Nvidia right now because of the high prices of their GPUs. They revel in the news that GPU shipments are declining. I think people should take a broader perspective on what is happening with Nvidia right now and what the implications might be down the road. For those who might not know, Nvidia became a trillion dollar market cap company a couple of weeks ago. The growth in their valuation has been driven entirely by their ML/AI enterprise business. GeForce is a small part of their business and if it becomes smaller they might reduce their investment in PC gaming. This would be a pretty bad outcome for us. Nvidia has contributed a lot to the graphics side of gaming in the last couple of decades.

I don't know if people remember this but back in 2005, when Unreal Engine 3 made it's debut with the 360/PS3 gen of consoles, it had no native support for anti aliasing. For a few years we had to suffer through games like Gears of War or Bioshock without any AA. Game developers at the time didn't care because the console hardware at the time wasn't powerful enough to support it and they didn't want to put in the extra effort/investment into the PC port. Their entire focus was on the console versions of their games and the PC version was an afterthought because 'all PC gamers were pirates'. The dogma that 'PC gaming is dying' was closest to being true during those dark years while Valve was still building out Steam to 'save' PC gaming. Anyway, around 2007 Nvidia decided that enough was enough and they implemented a hack in Geforce drivers to force AA in UE3 games start with Batman Arkham Asylum I think. This is one example where Nvidia made an investment to make PC gaming better. They have and continue to develop features to that end. Off the top of my head I can think of how they have had a hand in better AA, AO, tessellation, physx, nvenc, gsync, RT and probably more stuff that escapes me right now. Sometimes they've tried stuff that didn't pan out like 3DVision. They brought QOL features like reflex, Ansel, Shadowplay (remember when fucking FRAPS was the standard?).

In the last year or so it feels like the AAA industry at least is slipping back to those old habits of not caring enough about PC versions of their games. A different set of challenges this time around but the result is the same for us. At a time like this I don't think we should be hoping that GeForce becomes a smaller and less relevant part of Nvidia's overall business.
 

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
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I am looking forward to Starfield, though in a pretty low-key fashion. I know that Bethesda RPGs, especially their more recent ones, aren't my jam, but they do excel at purely immersive gameplay, and freedom of exploration that I can enjoy for at least the main story bits.
What very positively surprise me about the presentation is how good it looks, none of the old Gamebyro look, really modern presentation and rendering effects. There's no ray tracing, but that wouldn't be an option for the kinds of games they are making, and yet the demo still showed some signs of GI effects being present, which is super impressive.
I was mostly surprised by the gameplay, the combat especially. It looked shockingly good for a Bethesda game. There was virtually none of their usual jank. Now this might just be due to a clever editing in the presentation, cutting together the best moments, but at times it looked like scenes from a decent FPS.

I won't touch the game until at least its second year, but I do look forward to that a bit.
 
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C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
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Managed to get Starfield Digital Premium for 18% off on GMG. Not too bothered by that price since it comes with DLC too.
 

fantomena

MetaMember
Dec 17, 2018
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Im very much looking forward to Starfield because I like Bethesda RPGs and I love space. Simply as that.

Also, Starfield looks more "nasa-punk" or "today" or whatever it's called. No Man's Sky is cool and fun, but felt a bit too "far-fetched", "colorful", "futuristic", "less-humane" for my tastes, not sure what words to explain it with that those. Like, Starfield looks more "human" than No Mans Sky.
 
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C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
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I think for me the narrative focus on Starfield is what appeals to me more than anything else. NMS looks awesome, but it doesn't look like there's much going on in terms of story. I've tried to play it in VR and that didn't end well, but I always left the door open to try it in pancake mode, but the fact that there's not really a premise/story to draw me in has always meant it falls near the bottom of my ever-expanding backlog list.

Starfield is gonna have a main quest, side quests, characters you can team up with and get to know. Haven't been this excited for a game in literally ages!

I may be making a rod for my back here, but I've also pre-purchased CP2077: Phantom Liberty. I don't know when the hell I'll have time to play it, as I imagine I'll probably go straight to P5 Tactica by time I'm finished with Starfield, but I'm really pleased with how CDPR fixed up the base game.

I'm excited for the changes they've made and I think the improvements to working conditions for staff working on the game are encouraging.
 
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Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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I think for me the narrative focus on Starfield is what appeals to me more than anything else. NMS looks awesome, but it doesn't look like there's much going on in terms of story. I've tried to play it in VR and that didn't end well, but I always left the door open to try it in pancake mode, but the fact that there's not really a premise/story to draw me in has always meant it falls near the bottom of my ever-expanding backlog list.

Starfield is gonna have a main quest, side quests, characters you can team up with and get to know. Haven't been this excited for a game in literally ages!

I may be making a rod for my back here, but I've also pre-purchased CP2077: Phantom Liberty. I don't know when the hell I'll have time to play it, as I imagine I'll probably go straight to P5 Tactica by time I'm finished with Starfield, but I'm really pleased with how CDPR fixed up the base game.

I'm excited for the changes they've made and I think the improvements to working conditions for staff working on the game are encouraging.
But there is a story in No Man's Sky ! An undecipherable mess of a plotline that feels super out of place in this type of game. There is a lost ship, that I'm sure of it. And some sort of multiversal hub. Because reasons. And I left not too long after because I don't take cocaine, I don't speak the language.

Evil tempter, Starfield deluxe and CP2077 xpac :sweaty-blob:
 
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Lashley

My ho ho hoes 🎅
Any great PC streamers ? Ideally with good chunky CRPG coverage ?
I lost hope for the press to make a real PC centric site, so right now I’m juggling my French PC ex-journo streamer, Akwartz, and Mortismal (not a homerun but good).

On the misjudgement side, I watched a SsethTzeentach video and it was full of edgy jokes. Watchable one time, but they are seemingly all dripping in the same RPGCodex x 4chan shit humor. Ow the edge.
And Youtube being Youtube, guess who is now front and center in my reccomendations.
Cohhcarnage
 
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yuraya

MetaMember
May 4, 2019
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I'm excited for the changes they've made and I think the improvements to working conditions for staff working on the game are encouraging.
I think the real good news for Starfield that not many are talking about is how many people worked on the game.

Fallout 4 = 100 people
Fallout 76 = 200-275 across several studios
Starfield = over 500

Don't know if its new people they hired or it came with the Microsoft acquisition but its good they actually had the resources to deliver a big game. They confirmed id helped with some of the graphics too.

Fallout 4 is a big game and it had a lot of content for something only made by a little over 100 devs. For Starfield to have 500 must have been a big relief to avoid dev hell and crunch. I also think its a sign that they are more likely to deliver on everything they promised in the Direct. They really just need to nail the port. They can't release a game that crashes a lot and/or too much glitches/bugs that break the game. Its gonna be the most important thing for this so hopefully that delay from last year helped with the optimization so they can avoid all the issues CP2077 had at launch.
 
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Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
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I had my first level in Shadow Tactics where my loadings count are not double my saves.
Yeah, me !

Thinking about trying Remnant, with the sequel coming soon, but I'm a little scared of the solo experience.
 
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FunnyJay

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Thinking about trying Remnant, with the sequel coming soon, but I'm a little scared of the solo experience.
I played it solo. Didn't complete it though.
When you get into the flow, it's not so bad solo.
Just as Dark Souls works as a solo game also.
 
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Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
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Big demo week coming ! We already have Wizard with a gun, En garde and The Cosmic Wheel Sisterhood.
Anything else of note right now on the demo front ?
 
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Derrick01

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Oct 6, 2018
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I watched like 30 seconds of Armored Core VI gameplay somewhere on Youtube and noped out. It looked really good and I just don't want to see anymore of it. I know I will play it and some games you just don't wanna see/spoil things for yourself. FromSoft is one of those devs. A big blowout and deepdive makes sense for some games (like Starfield) but it really doesn't make sense for most others.

Also I am getting a little tempted to buy a PS5 for FFXVI. The hype is starting to get a little too much with all the positive impressions from the demo. I need to withstand this fomo because I really don't see myself using the PS5 for much else so it will collect dust. There is a steam summer sale coming in a few weeks too. And a giant onslaught of games this fall. The money can be spent on much better things than Square bs exclusivity. I love their games but I never loved them enough to buy a console for them. Would be nice if Sony did a better showcase showing all their future shit like MS just did with Xbox. A slim announcement would have gone a long way too because I really don't want to buy dated assembly this far into the gen.
Just keep in mind all the hypers are glossing over the fact that the demo performs horrendously (~50fps at all times even when nothing is going on and frequent dips to 20-30) and we basically know by now the full game will too as the devs talked about all the issues last night and said they were looking into it. This is despite yoshi p bragging about how long ago the game was finished and there'd be no day 1 patch.

I had no hype for the game before the demo and still have none because I despise many of the changes they're doing (and tbh I find most of the XIV team VERY overrated in general) but I have no idea how people are letting him get away with that kind of howard-ian lie.
 
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Dec 5, 2018
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Loading is hard on PC that's why FFXVI is not on Pc yet XD

This is PR talk (and I'm getting tired of every PR talk about sony exclusives at this point) ... But coming from the company that released forspoken ... The only (?) game with directstorage, that can load faster than on PS5, it's hilarious (I'm aware it was a different team but come on man...).
At this point I'd prefer them to say nothing.
 
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