Community MetaSteam | January 2025 - Remember cloud, a great remake comes with great responsibility, kuppo.

MegaApple

Just another Video Game Enthusiast
Sep 20, 2018
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British Stalker/Fallout (that is not Fallout London). Looks pretty cool. :thumbsupblob:
Hope it does well, we need more $50 games that do creative stuff and dont cost much to make
You can follow this guide to setup LS.

It can help you play everything, but Wilds seem to be a very demanding game. LS developer recommends a minimum of 30fps at 1080p / 40fps at 1440p to get the best result before frame gen. You may try the game during beta to see the performance.
Does LS work well on old GPUs like GTX1650? :cryblob:
Every time I reach a new level and check the map to see 100+ enemies its got me like

IIRC one of the DOOM designers loved putting lot of enemies in the map as way to scale the difficulty. I don't remember who that was.
 
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Kyougar

No reviews, no Buy
Nov 2, 2018
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Do I need glasses?
looking samey isn't even a problem. I EXPECT low graphical settings to look worse. BECAUSE! it means PC's with GPU'S older than 5 years could play the game with stable framerates.

But with modern games you have low needing a 4060 and high needing a 4090.
But low should be stable with a 1660 super instead!
65k for Avowed would be very nice, but I just don't see it. Veilguard did manage 89k, but that wasn't on Gamepass day 1, and even these days I think Bioware still has more of an intrinsic pull than Obsidian.

I agree with all of this, but I think the "perma-games" aren't the only cause -- I'm not sure if they are the primary one.

I believe that even if there were no permanent live service games sucking up playtime, there still are simply so many games in every remotely popular genre today that it's a natural consequence that just making another good entry in it alone does not guarantee financial success. Even making an excellent one doesn't, though I do think that Steam's mechanism and the general way recommendations work out gives you a fighting chance.

Of course, I think we also have to face the fact that "the market" doesn't really reward what most people who are enthusiasts would consider a game's intrinsic "quality", unless you define that from a pure capitalism product perspective where the quality is simply how much money it makes. But this is nothing new and has always been the case, otherwise the people who made Planescape: Torment would be billionaires, obviously :p
Let's make an armchair economic thought experiment.

The evergreen gamer plays 20 hours a week their evergreen games (either 1-3 of the big GaaS games or just playing dozens of 3+ year old games in round robin.
Thats 1020 hours a year.
Make it a 1000.
And let's say they are always a gamer so they would play the same amount of hours of non-GaaS or newer games that are less than 2 years old.

They predominantly play 5-20 hour indie experiences between 5-40 bucks.
Make it 10 hours and 20 bucks per game.
for 1000 hours of gameplay, they need 100 indie games, which cost them 2000 bucks.

Or, They predominantly play AAA games that are 20-60 hours at 70 bucks.
Make it 40 hours at 70 bucks.
For 1000 hours of gameplay, they need 25 games which would cost them 1750 bucks.

That's with 20 hours a week, which is low for gaas gamers.

And we didn't even talk about the biggest reason those usersexist:
They have found the game(s) that can fulfill their desire for gameplay that they like. I would go crazy if I had to search for dozens of good games that have good gameplay every year.
 
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Cacher

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Jun 3, 2020
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Does LS work well on old GPUs like GTX1650? :cryblob:
It does. :thumbsupblob: Like I said in a previous post, try to go for the developer-recommend base framerate (30fps at 1080p, 40fps at 1440p) before using frame gen through LS. I did use it on 30fps/1440p FF16 demo and there's noticeable ghosting around the main character when the camera moves around, but I don't really mind the little sacrifice if it means I can play the game smoothly.
 
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lashman

Dead & Forgotten
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「Echo」

Reaper on Station。
Nov 1, 2018
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Mt. Whatever
In Final Fantasy XVI after having one of the greatest boss fights of all time, the next main mission asks you to buy garlic in a flea market lol what is this game?
From the creators of FF14. Sounds about right.

In one MMO quest you'll go from destroying some planet eating monster to delivering wine like a common errand boy. :lampblob:
 

spindoctor

MetaMember
Jun 9, 2019
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I think a lot of the issue regarding games being unable to find markets and unable to find audiences is due to the suite of "perma-games" that are consistently taking up tons of people's leisure time. League of Legends, Fortnite, Warzone, GTA Online, etc. Those games have essentially captured a HUGE segment of gamers and as a result those people are never looking for new or different media to consume. There's always more League or Fortnite to play. So games in the Indie and AA space get squeezed by virtue of less total people existing that even would consider any sort of game for entertainment time. People already have a game they play, no need to see another. So smaller games MUST expand their audience any way they can. By Increasing diversity, or making big titty waifus, or whatever else they can to get some eyes and some traction. Its just different approaches to the same issue.

It has less to do with what sorts of games get made and what genre they are, or if they have diversity or not. There just aren't enough people looking for ANY new game anymore to sustain the industry the way it was in the past. Hence the constant refrain of layoffs and closures-- the entire games industry is in a crisis of its own making here and all everything else is kind of a slideshow. Not that these things aren't important-- I believe diversity and inclusion are important, but they are symptoms of bigger issues not the source of problems.

I dunno what any of the correct moves are here, but I don't envy anyone working in games ATM.
I've come to think that the stickiness of live service games is overstated and used as a scapegoat to justify the failure of other games. Anyone who thinks along the lines of "Oh this game I really liked flopped because of other people who were enjoying Call of Duty or League or some other game" is being kind of ridiculous. When Concord flopped one of the dumb excuses people gave was that the live service market was saturated and there's no room for another hero shooter but fast forward to today and Marvel Rivals just set a new CCU record. It's actually growing a month after release. Path of Exile 2 is another successful live service that just launched last month. There have been several successful games in the last year at different scales.

What I believe has happened is that the bar to succeed has been raised very high by a couple of different factors. Live services are one of those factors. People who play Counter Strike or Apex or whatever are willing to try (and even pay for) new games but you have to deliver a better or different experience to keep them interested. Otherwise they will naturally go back to the game that they enjoy more. And it does happen... CS and Overwatch are very popular but Valorant came along and mixed both formulas and found success. The last two Diablo games sold shit tons of copies but both Path of Exile games have managed to carve out a niche for themselves. Marvel Rivals is about a 90% clone of Overwatch but it is still succeeding because it is so much fun. There's an element of luck and serendipity involved but it's very important to correctly read market signals and serve your audience if you want to see success. The people who run Call of Duty, one of the biggest games around, realized that keeping the game exclusive to battle.net was not a good idea and brought it to Steam. Meanwhile, the people making the COD clone called XDefiant thought they could keep it on exclusive to uplay. That's not the only reason it failed, but man what a stupid decision that was. It's definitely one of the reasons Ubisoft is circling the toilet today. That joke of a game Concord didn't fail because it was a paid game, a hero shooter, a live service or a new IP. There have been successful games with every one of those 'handicaps'. It didn't even fail because it was a bad game because nobody was willing to even give it a chance. It had already failed before anyone even got to experience it.

The other factor is the democratization of game development and distribution. Anyone who has the drive and ability can create and release a game with very little monetary investment. This is why you get ~20,000 releases on Steam in a year and, again, your game has to be better or different enough to find it's audience. Supermarket Simulator was one of the biggest success stories of last year and I'm pretty sure it was made on the free Unity engine with store bought assets. Live services didn't stop that game or Miside or Manor Lords or any of those games from succeeding. Luck obviously played a huge part in their success by letting them beat all the competition for visibility but they also correctly read the market and served their audience (which they possibly created).

There's no one decision that determines the success or failure of a game but I do think the bar is high enough that developers and companies now need to mostly get everything right to succeed. Making a good game is not enough. I enjoyed Indiana Jones to bits but that game has definitely flopped because of the decisions Microsoft made. The biggest factor is obviously that they didn't release it on one of the largest platforms and made it 'free' on the two platforms did release it on. Microsoft has their own vision for what success should look like and we'll see how that pans out, but it is objectively a sales flop and has been forgotten a month after release. Other decisions they made that could have hurt it include using an IP that maybe doesn't matter to younger people, cutting off half their prospective PC audience by requiring RT enabled hardware and personally, I think their trailers did a very poor job of selling the game. FF7 Rebirth being a flop is another example. They decide to remake their crown jewel but then they get greedy and want to split it into 3 full priced games. Announced in 2015, probably going to conclude in 2026... how many people did they think would be along for the 11 year ride? The brand value and recognition of Final Fantasy tanked in that duration. And then they decide to make exclusivity deals with anyone who will give them a dollar. When they finally do release it on PC, you get low quality, late ports with no advertising. No release on Xbox at all. Meanwhile, their competition have been consistently growing their audience on the platform that they ignore.

Here's an example that I think is probably likely and definitely relevant. At some point around 2015, give or take a year or two, someone at Square Enix decided that FF7 remake should be exclusive to Playstation. In that same time period, someone at Capcom decided to release Monster Hunter World on PC. The consequences of those two specific decisions are about to arrive 10 years later. On February 28, Capcom is going to sell 2-5 million copies of Monster Hunter Wilds on PC on day one and will have a million people playing concurrently. Meanwhile, Square Enix is currently selling both FF7 remake games in a bundle at half the price of a single game to have any hope of success, and that success will be measured between 2%-4% of what Capcom is going to achieve.

The moral of the story is to read the market correctly and deliver what your audience is asking for and expects. Reading the market isn't easy, it's almost like divination, but avoiding obvious mistakes is the bare minimum you can do if you want to succeed. Or you could just blame Fortnite for everything going wrong :shrugblob:
 
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MegaApple

Just another Video Game Enthusiast
Sep 20, 2018
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It does. :thumbsupblob: Like I said in a previous post, try to go for the developer-recommend base framerate (30fps at 1080p, 40fps at 1440p) before using frame gen through LS. I did use it on 30fps/1440p FF16 demo and there's noticeable ghosting around the main character when the camera moves around, but I don't really mind the little sacrifice if it means I can play the game smoothly.
Cool.
I tried FSR3 solution in Spider-Man Miles Morales, and it worked quite well. Except in parts where he swings really fast (it is winter time in-game) and everything blurs badly. Was thinking of LS could help.

Are there any seperate FSR injectors? I've heard there are standalone DLSS injectors.
 
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Cacher

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Cool.
I tried FSR3 solution in Spider-Man Miles Morales, and it worked quite well. Except in parts where he swings really fast (it is winter time in-game) and everything blurs badly. Was thinking of LS could help.

Are there any seperate FSR injectors? I've heard there are standalone DLSS injectors.
Upscale in LS is a different beast and I have no experience with its performance on heavier games. Only used it to upscale visual novels so far. Sorry can't answer your question. I don't know much about FSR injector either. :(
 
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fantomena

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Dec 17, 2018
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For how long does the "new to library" sticker on a game stay without removing it by installing it? I see games I bought dec 13 still have it., but not a game I bought dec 9th. So 1 month?
 

STHX

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2021
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The moral of the story is to read the market correctly and deliver what your audience is asking for and expects. Reading the market isn't easy, it's almost like divination, but avoiding obvious mistakes is the bare minimum you can do if you want to succeed. Or you could just blame Fortnite for everything going wrong
If there is one thing I learned during these last years, is that a lot of developers and publishers though of themselves as a golden goose. You don't need to read the market if you are the one who decides the market. How many times I read a post mortem where studio heads said "yes this game's development was a disaster but we are [DEV NAME] so we will pull it off in the end"? Let's look at your FFVII example: Square most likely believed FFVII was such a sure thing that the userbase would simply buy whatever console/platform had the exclusive rights without asking questions, and Sony and Epic probably though the same. FFVII is supposed to be a Golden Goose after all, so the remake project was, without a doubt, a golden egg. It doesn't matter where it's released, or how much it costs, users will flock to it
Well we know how that ended. But the same could be said of many other companies. The truth is that golden gooses don't exist. Every company is a normal goose that may be able to come out with a golden egg, but because they are a normal goose there is always the chance the next egg will simply be a silver one, or a bronze one, or a straight up normal egg. It's not even limited to games either

There is also another issue that I think it's very common: I think many big teams are convinced they are the only ones that can actually provide a specific product, and so they believe the market will always be there regardless of what they produce because the users have no other choice. They will buy our games, or they have nothing else to buy
Bioware and Bethesda are perfect examples. There is nothing like a Bioware rpg, there is nothing like a Bethesda open world. When Dragon Age Origins came out it was a unique experience: something inspired by old school cRPGs but with a "modern" presentation. Later games were less like cRPGs, but the presentation was still there. Same for Mass Effect. Both series had a level of presentation (graphics, voice acting, cinematic feel) that is only possible with the backing of a massive publisher. It doesn't matter who made the choice to make the sequels "more action, less rpg" because in the end it didn't matter saleswise, because no one else should be able to create a game that not only is similar to DA:O gameplay wise, but also features the same level of presentation. Yes, there was a resurgence of cRPGs when Kickstarter came to be, but no matter how good Pathfinder was, the "presentation" was much simplier. Even Mass Effect Andromeda had no problem selling 5 million copies
But in the end a golden egg appeared out of nowhere. BG3 "followed up" DA:O in both gameplay and presentation, it outshined anything Bioware was developing at that time, and Veilguard is the obvious result. Comparisons between BG3 and Veilguard are everywhere, and users now have an alternative, they can chose to not buy Bioware rpgs because another company produced something on the same level, if not above
Bethesda is the same. In the years after Fallout 4 (but even after Skyrim) more and more competitors appeared. You no longer need BGS to have a big openworld RPG you can approach how you want, and Bethesda is absolutely feeling the pressure after Starfield. The truth is customers will try to find something better, and eventually a dev team will provide that experience they seek. And with longer development times the fear the next egg is not going to be golden can be terrifying
 

Sadrac

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Dec 6, 2018
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Basically HL3 confirmed xD
Not mine, but an interesting theory. I am beginning to believe

On 1/11 (1+1+1=3), Gabe Newell paid a visit to Chile on his way to Antarctica. "Chile" has THREE consonant letters. Two of them are "H" and "L", for Half Life... The THIRD consonant is C, which is the THIRD letter of the alphabet, and which also rhymes with 3. Half Life C? More like Half Life 3
 

jads653

MetaMember
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Not mine, but an interesting theory. I am beginning to believe

On 1/11 (1+1+1=3), Gabe Newell paid a visit to Chile on his way to Antarctica. "Chile" has THREE consonant letters. Two of them are "H" and "L", for Half Life... The THIRD consonant is C, which is the THIRD letter of the alphabet, and which also rhymes with 3. Half Life C? More like Half Life 3


Full aboard the hype train!
 

QFNS

Plays too many card games
Nov 18, 2018
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Yes yes I know MH Wilds is out next month but if I don't see 5 active posters here playing Daybreak 2 or Yakuza....

Next month is so Stacked with games I want to play. I'll probably still be playing FFVII Rebirth and then comes:
Trails through Daybreak 2
LAD: Pirate Yakuza in Hawaii
Civ VII


That's enough games and hours that I'll probably be playing those until the end of the year but then March has the Suikoden remasters also.
 
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hersheyfan

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Yes yes I know MH Wilds is out next month but if I don't see 5 active posters here playing Daybreak 2 or Yakuza....

I'm pretty sure I dont count as an "active poster" given how frequently I just lurk, but you can count on me at least to play Yakuza. :coffee-blob: (Despite my best efforts, I'm not a Monhan enjoyer, so I'm skipping Wilds for now.)

I really enjoyed Infinite Wealth, and am super ready to hop onto its direct sequel!
 

「Echo」

Reaper on Station。
Nov 1, 2018
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Mt. Whatever
Yes. You can always power limit the thing in the nvidia app/msi afterburner.
Are we sure about that? When i upgraded from 1080ti to 3070ti my computer wouldn't complete POST or even turn on the GPU without upgrading PSU. Of course maybe that was a safety feature put in by EVGA, maybe not all GPU's are so picky...?
 
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Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
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In my experience, at POST GPUs usually only check that the cables are connected, not how much power can be supplied (of course, unless you run something out of spec, that should be the same).

I think the FE 4090 at least even has a feature where you can run their adapter with different 8-pin connector counts, and it will set the TDP limit accordingly.
 
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Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
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Yes yes I know MH Wilds is out next month but if I don't see 5 active posters here playing Daybreak 2 or Yakuza....

still too busy catching up to play the newest Yakuza. Currently still early hours in Yakuza: LAD and having a lot of fun. As with Judgement before it, it's neat to see the series explore other characters than just Kiryu and Majima.

For Daybreak 2, it depends on how well it runs on the Deck. Will be busy moving and probably won't have access to my PC for another month or two.
 
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edin

Coffee, Controllers, etc
Sep 30, 2024
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still too busy catching up to play the newest Yakuza. Currently still early hours in Yakuza: LAD and having a lot of fun. As with Judgement before it, it's neat to see the series explore other characters than just Kiryu and Majima.

For Daybreak 2, it depends on how well it runs on the Deck. Will be busy moving and probably won't have access to my PC for another month or two.
I assume it will be like Daybreak 1 which ended up being my favorite way to play it (I own all versions of the game).

I hope you play Yakuza 8 once you finish 7 at least.
 

didamangi

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Nov 16, 2018
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Are we sure about that? When i upgraded from 1080ti to 3070ti my computer wouldn't complete POST or even turn on the GPU without upgrading PSU. Of course maybe that was a safety feature put in by EVGA, maybe not all GPU's are so picky...?
I went from 1080 ti to 3080 with the same 750w psu till now, no problems whatsoever. Don't think the boot would take a lot of wattage at all so I don't know why your old psu doesn't work unless it's already going out.
 

lashman

Dead & Forgotten
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