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[C-Dub]

Epic's responses to MPs just shows how duplicitous and morally repugnant they are as a company. They feel they're so big that they can flout the laws of countries they sell their game to people in.

What's shocking is such replies are only going to strengthen the resolve of MPs to regulate this shit. And other countries will follow.

 

[lashman]

What's shocking is such replies are only going to strengthen the resolve of MPs to regulate this shit. And other countries will follow.

good

 

[C-Dub]

good

Agreed, but this is exactly what the industry doesn't want. I just thought they were smarter than this, but Epic and EA's testimony has pretty much just ruined it for everyone else. I imagine there were more than a number of facepalms in publisher boardrooms and legal departments around the world at these responses.

Every time "gaming addiction" is brought up in the news, what Epic said to the committee will be used as demonstrable evidence that the industry lies through its teeth and has no intention of even engaging with MPs on some sort of solution to go forward. They're in for a rude awakening.

 

[lashman]

Agreed, but this is exactly what the industry doesn't want. I just thought they were smarter than this, but Epic and EA's testimony has pretty much just ruined it for everyone else. I imagine there were more than a number of facepalms in publisher boardrooms and legal departments around the world at these responses.

Every time "gaming addiction" is brought up in the news, what Epic said to the committee will be used as demonstrable evidence that the industry lies through its teeth and has no intention of even engaging with MPs on some sort of solution to go forward. They're in for a rude awakening.

even better ... fuck 'em ... all of them!

they had like 500 chances to not do this shit ... and instead they pretty much all chose to go even deeper

 

[Rosenkrantz]

Well, if Forknife doesn't make any money, then where it comes from? Did they hire Uwe Boll as financial advisor? All these juicy money laundering schemes, mmm.

That was probably the dumbest statement ever.

 

[madjoki]

I have to question Tim Sweeneys understanding, though I'm sure he's right tho.

 

[MJunioR]

Sorry but I couldn't help myself.

(BAD) Steam doesn't want to generate keys for Shenmue 3 backers after EPIC saved the whole game. We would happily PAY for it, but crooked Gabe is too greedy and only takes ALL-OR-NOTHING. Ridiculous and very anti-consumer! Not ethical at all! @realTimSweeney

 

[Digoman]

Well, the whole "give keys for free to developer" Valve does is to bring people to it's store so they spend money there, so yeah, really doesn't make a lot of sense to play nice with publishers that are doing exclusivity deals elsewhere. But Sweeney is... shock... being a little disingenuous here because a lot of the value for Epic is to actually have backers forced to use EGS.

Also, I was going to joke about doing a drinking game every time Sweeney types "30%" but taking a look at his twitter feed.... it would probably send a lot people to the hospital

 

[Rosenkrantz]

Sorry but I couldn't help myself.

(BAD) Steam doesn't want to generate keys for Shenmue 3 backers after EPIC saved the whole game. We would happily PAY for it, but crooked Gabe is too greedy and only takes ALL-OR-NOTHING. Ridiculous and very anti-consumer! Not ethical at all! @realTimSweeney

Would've been better in a Trumpspeak.

 

[lashman]

 

[NarohDethan]

Ah yes the trickle down cant come soon enough

 

[Guilty of Being]

I was a huge LRG guy for a few years, but they know what they're doing to their customers. I absolutly hate them because they left what they originally stood for and turned into corporate bastards that want nothing more than to milk weak collectors. STFU, Josh!

 

[lashman]

Ah yes the trickle down cant come soon enough

no, you see - now volvo are the bad guys because they DON'T pay for exclusives ...

 

[NarohDethan]

no, you see - now volvo are the bad guys because they DON'T pay for exclusives ...

'everyone does it, dont they want the PC market to grow?'

 

[Arsene]

Dude’s just bitter nobody bought Saturday Morning RPG.

I did, and they cut and ran after Episode 5 so the achievement for beating “6 different episodes” is unobtainable. But hey theres a sequel coming maybe!!! Maybe Epic can help them make a proper ending this time!!!!!

 

[Rosenkrantz]

We hate conformist, capitalist trash!!! - devs before EGS

What's wrong with exclusivity? You support Epic, Epic supports us, Steam learns from Epic, Epic learns from Steam, everyone coexists harmonically!!! Now, buy our game you dirty son of a bitch. - devs after the rise of Sweeney

 

[ZKenir]

I am shocked that the guys partnering with Deep Silver as exclusive distributor to sell the limited edition of Shenmue 3 are defending Deep Silver.

 

[Digoman]

In the end this is just about indie developers dreaming about being the next chosen ones for a EGS deal. When Epic stops doing them (either because they were successful or decided to stop losing money) they will start complaining about that too. Just like it went to "Steam is too curated".... to "wait.... why is everyone getting in now?"

So basically, "I want my success guaranteed, and f*ck those pesky customers".

 

[madjoki]

Speaking of roadmap. They only had one item for June and it's still not shipped.

And I totally expected them not fail to ship that. It's feature that can be done by single workday. (search by genre).
Tho I guess they'll add it next week and say "see, we do stuff on roadmap".

 

[lashman]

Speaking of roadmap. They only had one item for June and it's still not shipped.

And I totally expected them not fail to ship that. It's feature that can be done by single workday. (search by genre).
Tho I guess they'll add it next week and say "see, we do stuff on roadmap".

that would be hilarious

 

[C-Dub]

I am shocked that the guys partnering with Deep Silver as exclusive distributor to sell the limited edition of Shenmue 3 are defending Deep Silver.

These are the same people were thrilled to be working with Deep Silver, just not thrilled about the pedo 8Chan bit, but thrilled about everything else.

Yeah, don’t trust a word that they say.

 

[Hektor]

If people in this industry, be they developers, journalists or ancillary service providers are not willing to see the EGS/Steam debate out of anything but the developers side, completely ignoring the consumer side of things - some even going so far as to actively attack and mock consumsers - then why should i, the consumer be any different and start having something resembling understanding or empathy for the developers position?

If your attitude is "fuck you, got mine" then i don't see why i shouldn't follow suit with that attitude myself.

 

[ZKenir]

that guy is going places, now it's deep silver that invested in the game apparently


as someone watching from the sidelines because has little interest in shenmue 3 (thankfully) I find it more amusing than enraging, but looks like they are doing a good job to piss off whoever was interested in pc copy and backed the KS

 

[NarohDethan]

that guy is going places, now it's deep silver that invested in the game apparently


as someone watching from the sidelines because has little interest in shenmue 3 (thankfully) I find it more amusing than enraging, but looks like they are doing a good job to piss off whoever was interested in pc copy and backed the KS

'What about those millions from the Kickstarter?'

Hurriedly tucks aways the keys for their Ferraris

Uh yeah, it was invested in, uh, incentives.

 

[NarohDethan]

Ubisoft playing anti-politics when China gets pissy about an ad that seems to support Hong Kong's protestors who are out there literally risking their lives for freedom?

Devotion forced off Steam because of Chinese censorship and enraged nationalism?

Phoenix Point and Shenmue devs literally trafficking users that funded the game to Epic against their will?

Sergey still making $170,000+ a year from SteamSpy while working on their competitor's storefront?

THQN doing shady shit in choosing their AMA location?

press sleeps

Some Twitter users on say some conspiratorial things about Tencent's possible influence on Epic's business structures, and Steam writes a notice on a store page?

furiously writing think pieces accusing Steam users of being Sinophobic and toxically pro-consumer

Fuck the cheerleading press, look out for your self. No one else will.

Tifa's boobs have recieved more coverage (see what I did there?) than this shit.

 

[BernardoOne]

it's interesting that the biggest defenders of EGS are the folks that don't have to pay a single cent for their games.

 

[m_dorian]

Limited run games became no run at all in my systems and that is the best way for anyone to deal with this.

Unless, ofcourse there's a better idea.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Well now I'm "lucky enough" to have Tim respond to me

 

[Guilty of Being]

that guy is going places, now it's deep silver that invested in the game apparently


as someone watching from the sidelines because has little interest in shenmue 3 (thankfully) I find it more amusing than enraging, but looks like they are doing a good job to piss off whoever was interested in pc copy and backed the KS

I want to light Josh up on Twitter so bad, but I’m not. He’s absolute scum!

 

[Chudah]

Well now I'm "lucky enough" to have Tim respond to me

Sounds like Valve made a policy change cutting off Steam Keys from anyone pulling their game from the store due to exclusivity agreements. While it sucks that it means we won't be getting Steam keys for Shenmue, it at least shows that Valve is doing SOMETHING behind the scenes to make it harder for devs who pull their games from the store at the last minute.

 

[Ascheroth]

Sounds like Valve made a policy change cutting off Steam Keys from anyone pulling their game from the store due to exclusivity agreements. While it sucks that it means we won't be getting Steam keys for Shenmue, it at least shows that Valve is doing SOMETHING behind the scenes to make it harder for devs who pull their games from the store at the last minute.

Not sure about policy changes. The policy regarding this is:

• Crowdfunding.
  Keys can be used to fulfill crowdfunding rewards and grant backers access to your product. Providing backers with beta testing keys prior to release is also OK, but only backers should receive those keys --they shouldn’t be sold outside of the crowdfunding campaign unless your beta is also available for sale via Steam.
  
  Steam keys can only be promoted as a reward for products that have already confirmed Steam distribution -- it’s not OK to use the Valve or Steam logos to market a product that is not currently under Steam Distribution Agreement. For ongoing crowdfunding that does not have a set end date, it is only OK to sell Steam keys if the product is also available for purchase via Steam at no higher than it is offered via your crowdfunding campaign. If you are selling Steam keys for a beta or early access version of your product, you must follow the early access requirements listed below.

The way I read this, is that since Shenmue 3 is not distributed on Steam anymore, they can't request keys. Iirc Phoenix Point also only backpedaled to Steam keys after the exclusivity is up and not day 1, presumably because of this policy.
And that's only fair. If you don't sell your game on Steam, Valve has no obligation in allowing you to use their platform for free. Sucks for the backers ultimately, but that's on the devs/pubs that took the epic money.

 

[lashman]

The way I read this, is that since Shenmue 3 is not distributed on Steam anymore, they can't request keys. Iirc Phoenix Point also only backpedaled to Steam keys after the exclusivity is up and not day 1, presumably because of this policy.
And that's only fair. If you don't sell your game on Steam, Valve has no obligation in allowing you to use their platform for free. Sucks for the backers ultimately, but that's on the devs/pubs that took the epic money.

correct ... but that's been the case for a good while now (even before egs even existed) ... this isn't new

 

[Chudah]

correct ... but that's been the case for a good while now (even before egs even existed) ... this isn't new

I'm guessing that it's been a policy for a while now, it's just that Valve has a reason to enforce it now. And they're doing it.

 

[lashman]

I'm guessing that it's been a policy for a while now, it's just that Valve has a reason to enforce it now. And they're doing it.

you can't really blame them for doing it, though

 

[Chudah]

you can't really blame them for doing it, though

Oh, I don't. I'm actually happy they are. I'm hoping it'll at least make future Kickstarter devs think twice about going Epic Exclusive at the last minute. Odds are, they'll probably sell out and go for the "Epic Lottery" anyway, but they can't dangle future Steam keys in front of their backers as a consolation prize anymore.

 

[MJunioR]

you can't really blame them for doing it, though

But Tim will

 

[lashman]

Oh, I don't. I'm actually happy they are. I'm hoping it'll at least make future Kickstarter devs think twice about going Epic Exclusive at the last minute. Odds are, they'll probably sell out and go for the "Epic Lottery" anyway, but they can't dangle future Steam keys in front of their backers as a consolation prize anymore.

here's hoping

 

[gabbo]

you can't really blame them for doing it, though

Tim is damn sure giving it tje good 'ole college try though.

 

[lashman]

Tim is damn sure giving it tje good 'ole college try though.

oh, i don't doubt that ... of course he'd do that

 

[Guilty of Being]

you can't really blame them for doing it, though

No, you can’t. I think it was the right thing to do.

 

[Deleted member 113]

Tim is full of shit.

I was a backer for Phoenix Point, and Shenmue III, and particularly the first game completely destroys his argument that backers aren't getting what they were promised as a result of Valve's unwillingness to allow keys for backers.
You see, Phoenix Point was not only promised as a Steam key, you had an option for a GOG key. We didn't get that either.

You could say "GOG refused to also provide keys". Fine, but early versions of the game were being distributed through it's own downloadable for months.
If Epic wasn't forcing backers to "embrace" the EGS, the developers could have easily continued to provide the game as they had been so far, outside of the EGS, and personally I wouldn't be as upset.
But no, I asked, and they refused to continue to provide the game through their downloader, even the next early versions would be on EGS, and nowhere else. It was EGS or nothing for a full year.

So, again, Tim can suck it.
Even if Valve was OK with providing keys to backers, or GOG, you can be sure backers would not get them.

 

[prudis]

#betterLovestoryThanTwilight

 

[lashman]

 

[NarohDethan]

Sweeney is either a dedicated troll or a quite stupid man.

 

[lashman]

Sweeney is either a dedicated troll or a quite stupid man.

 

[C-Dub]

To be honest, this kind of bluster and deflection seems to be Epic company policy at this point. I mean, you all saw how they spoke to MPs, right?

There's clearly someone in the business advising that spewing bullshit around like this muddies the waters and help prevents facts from emerging.

 

[Arsene]

#betterLovestoryThanTwilight

I dont know what he played. But the beta I played in 2015/2016 was definitely nothing to write home about.

 

[Guilty of Being]

Fuck Epic, so here's Rogue Stormers...

You need to react to this post in order to see this content.

 

[Arsene]

Fuck Epic, so here's Rogue Stormers...

[Hidden content]

Got it thanks

 

[Rosenkrantz]

Today I cut my finger while thinking about the ways to destroy Steam. #NotMyFault #FuckGaben
- TimSweeneyEpic