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I think its more than a little disingenuous to state that "every software" is full of analytics because you've used wordpress and it does.
Wordpress has all of that because thats the kind of analystics that professional web designers requested and use in order to get feedback data of visitors to their sites.

Epic undoubtedly do have information on user logins, length per session, etc if only from server access logs.
But the idea that 'all software' comes with that is completely false. You couldn't reasonably expect some gamemaker or rpgmaker game to be able to provide you with analytics on average length per session, what the most clicked on button in an interface is, the average time spent in an area, etc.
You're totally right, I was implying that at a certain level every software is loaded with trackers.
Of course I wasn't talking about small time indies, but it's a totally correct clarification! :)
 
Epic's responses to MPs just shows how duplicitous and morally repugnant they are as a company. They feel they're so big that they can flout the laws of countries they sell their game to people in.

What's shocking is such replies are only going to strengthen the resolve of MPs to regulate this shit. And other countries will follow.
 
Agreed, but this is exactly what the industry doesn't want. I just thought they were smarter than this, but Epic and EA's testimony has pretty much just ruined it for everyone else. I imagine there were more than a number of facepalms in publisher boardrooms and legal departments around the world at these responses.

Every time "gaming addiction" is brought up in the news, what Epic said to the committee will be used as demonstrable evidence that the industry lies through its teeth and has no intention of even engaging with MPs on some sort of solution to go forward. They're in for a rude awakening.
 
Agreed, but this is exactly what the industry doesn't want. I just thought they were smarter than this, but Epic and EA's testimony has pretty much just ruined it for everyone else. I imagine there were more than a number of facepalms in publisher boardrooms and legal departments around the world at these responses.

Every time "gaming addiction" is brought up in the news, what Epic said to the committee will be used as demonstrable evidence that the industry lies through its teeth and has no intention of even engaging with MPs on some sort of solution to go forward. They're in for a rude awakening.

even better ... fuck 'em ... all of them!

they had like 500 chances to not do this shit ... and instead they pretty much all chose to go even deeper
 
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I have to question Tim Sweeneys understanding, though I'm sure he's right tho.
 
Sorry but I couldn't help myself.

(BAD) Steam doesn't want to generate keys for Shenmue 3 backers after EPIC saved the whole game. We would happily PAY for it, but crooked Gabe is too greedy and only takes ALL-OR-NOTHING. Ridiculous and very anti-consumer! Not ethical at all! @realTimSweeney
 
Well, the whole "give keys for free to developer" Valve does is to bring people to it's store so they spend money there, so yeah, really doesn't make a lot of sense to play nice with publishers that are doing exclusivity deals elsewhere. But Sweeney is... shock... being a little disingenuous here because a lot of the value for Epic is to actually have backers forced to use EGS.

Also, I was going to joke about doing a drinking game every time Sweeney types "30%" but taking a look at his twitter feed.... it would probably send a lot people to the hospital :p
 
Sorry but I couldn't help myself.

(BAD) Steam doesn't want to generate keys for Shenmue 3 backers after EPIC saved the whole game. We would happily PAY for it, but crooked Gabe is too greedy and only takes ALL-OR-NOTHING. Ridiculous and very anti-consumer! Not ethical at all! @realTimSweeney
Would've been better in a Trumpspeak.
 
Dude’s just bitter nobody bought Saturday Morning RPG.

I did, and they cut and ran after Episode 5 so the achievement for beating “6 different episodes” is unobtainable. But hey theres a sequel coming maybe!!! Maybe Epic can help them make a proper ending this time!!!!!
 
We hate conformist, capitalist trash!!! - devs before EGS

What's wrong with exclusivity? You support Epic, Epic supports us, Steam learns from Epic, Epic learns from Steam, everyone coexists harmonically!!! Now, buy our game you dirty son of a bitch. - devs after the rise of Sweeney
 
In the end this is just about indie developers dreaming about being the next chosen ones for a EGS deal. When Epic stops doing them (either because they were successful or decided to stop losing money) they will start complaining about that too. Just like it went to "Steam is too curated".... to "wait.... why is everyone getting in now?"

So basically, "I want my success guaranteed, and f*ck those pesky customers".
 
Speaking of roadmap. They only had one item for June and it's still not shipped.

And I totally expected them not fail to ship that. It's feature that can be done by single workday. (search by genre).
Tho I guess they'll add it next week and say "see, we do stuff on roadmap".
 
Speaking of roadmap. They only had one item for June and it's still not shipped.

And I totally expected them not fail to ship that. It's feature that can be done by single workday. (search by genre).
Tho I guess they'll add it next week and say "see, we do stuff on roadmap".

that would be hilarious
 
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I am shocked that the guys partnering with Deep Silver as exclusive distributor to sell the limited edition of Shenmue 3 are defending Deep Silver.
These are the same people were thrilled to be working with Deep Silver, just not thrilled about the pedo 8Chan bit, but thrilled about everything else.

Yeah, don’t trust a word that they say.
 
If people in this industry, be they developers, journalists or ancillary service providers are not willing to see the EGS/Steam debate out of anything but the developers side, completely ignoring the consumer side of things - some even going so far as to actively attack and mock consumsers - then why should i, the consumer be any different and start having something resembling understanding or empathy for the developers position?

If your attitude is "fuck you, got mine" then i don't see why i shouldn't follow suit with that attitude myself.
 
that guy is going places, now it's deep silver that invested in the game apparently


as someone watching from the sidelines because has little interest in shenmue 3 (thankfully) I find it more amusing than enraging, but looks like they are doing a good job to piss off whoever was interested in pc copy and backed the KS
 
that guy is going places, now it's deep silver that invested in the game apparently


as someone watching from the sidelines because has little interest in shenmue 3 (thankfully) I find it more amusing than enraging, but looks like they are doing a good job to piss off whoever was interested in pc copy and backed the KS
'What about those millions from the Kickstarter?'

Hurriedly tucks aways the keys for their Ferraris

Uh yeah, it was invested in, uh, incentives.
 
Ubisoft playing anti-politics when China gets pissy about an ad that seems to support Hong Kong's protestors who are out there literally risking their lives for freedom?

Devotion forced off Steam because of Chinese censorship and enraged nationalism?

Phoenix Point and Shenmue devs literally trafficking users that funded the game to Epic against their will?

Sergey still making $170,000+ a year from SteamSpy while working on their competitor's storefront?

THQN doing shady shit in choosing their AMA location?

press sleeps

Some Twitter users on say some conspiratorial things about Tencent's possible influence on Epic's business structures, and Steam writes a notice on a store page?

furiously writing think pieces accusing Steam users of being Sinophobic and toxically pro-consumer

Fuck the cheerleading press, look out for your self. No one else will.
Tifa's boobs have recieved more coverage (see what I did there?) than this shit.
 
Limited run games became no run at all in my systems and that is the best way for anyone to deal with this.

Unless, ofcourse there's a better idea.
 
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that guy is going places, now it's deep silver that invested in the game apparently


as someone watching from the sidelines because has little interest in shenmue 3 (thankfully) I find it more amusing than enraging, but looks like they are doing a good job to piss off whoever was interested in pc copy and backed the KS

I want to light Josh up on Twitter so bad, but I’m not. He’s absolute scum!
 
Well now I'm "lucky enough" to have Tim respond to me


Sounds like Valve made a policy change cutting off Steam Keys from anyone pulling their game from the store due to exclusivity agreements. While it sucks that it means we won't be getting Steam keys for Shenmue, it at least shows that Valve is doing SOMETHING behind the scenes to make it harder for devs who pull their games from the store at the last minute.
 
Sounds like Valve made a policy change cutting off Steam Keys from anyone pulling their game from the store due to exclusivity agreements. While it sucks that it means we won't be getting Steam keys for Shenmue, it at least shows that Valve is doing SOMETHING behind the scenes to make it harder for devs who pull their games from the store at the last minute.
Not sure about policy changes. The policy regarding this is:

  • Crowdfunding.
    Keys can be used to fulfill crowdfunding rewards and grant backers access to your product. Providing backers with beta testing keys prior to release is also OK, but only backers should receive those keys --they shouldn’t be sold outside of the crowdfunding campaign unless your beta is also available for sale via Steam.

    Steam keys can only be promoted as a reward for products that have already confirmed Steam distribution -- it’s not OK to use the Valve or Steam logos to market a product that is not currently under Steam Distribution Agreement. For ongoing crowdfunding that does not have a set end date, it is only OK to sell Steam keys if the product is also available for purchase via Steam at no higher than it is offered via your crowdfunding campaign. If you are selling Steam keys for a beta or early access version of your product, you must follow the early access requirements listed below.

The way I read this, is that since Shenmue 3 is not distributed on Steam anymore, they can't request keys. Iirc Phoenix Point also only backpedaled to Steam keys after the exclusivity is up and not day 1, presumably because of this policy.
And that's only fair. If you don't sell your game on Steam, Valve has no obligation in allowing you to use their platform for free. Sucks for the backers ultimately, but that's on the devs/pubs that took the epic money.
 
The way I read this, is that since Shenmue 3 is not distributed on Steam anymore, they can't request keys. Iirc Phoenix Point also only backpedaled to Steam keys after the exclusivity is up and not day 1, presumably because of this policy.
And that's only fair. If you don't sell your game on Steam, Valve has no obligation in allowing you to use their platform for free. Sucks for the backers ultimately, but that's on the devs/pubs that took the epic money.

correct ... but that's been the case for a good while now (even before egs even existed) ... this isn't new
 
you can't really blame them for doing it, though

Oh, I don't. I'm actually happy they are. I'm hoping it'll at least make future Kickstarter devs think twice about going Epic Exclusive at the last minute. Odds are, they'll probably sell out and go for the "Epic Lottery" anyway, but they can't dangle future Steam keys in front of their backers as a consolation prize anymore.
 
Oh, I don't. I'm actually happy they are. I'm hoping it'll at least make future Kickstarter devs think twice about going Epic Exclusive at the last minute. Odds are, they'll probably sell out and go for the "Epic Lottery" anyway, but they can't dangle future Steam keys in front of their backers as a consolation prize anymore.

here's hoping
 
Tim is full of shit.

I was a backer for Phoenix Point, and Shenmue III, and particularly the first game completely destroys his argument that backers aren't getting what they were promised as a result of Valve's unwillingness to allow keys for backers.
You see, Phoenix Point was not only promised as a Steam key, you had an option for a GOG key. We didn't get that either.

You could say "GOG refused to also provide keys". Fine, but early versions of the game were being distributed through it's own downloadable for months.
If Epic wasn't forcing backers to "embrace" the EGS, the developers could have easily continued to provide the game as they had been so far, outside of the EGS, and personally I wouldn't be as upset.
But no, I asked, and they refused to continue to provide the game through their downloader, even the next early versions would be on EGS, and nowhere else. It was EGS or nothing for a full year.

So, again, Tim can suck it.
Even if Valve was OK with providing keys to backers, or GOG, you can be sure backers would not get them.
 
To be honest, this kind of bluster and deflection seems to be Epic company policy at this point. I mean, you all saw how they spoke to MPs, right?

There's clearly someone in the business advising that spewing bullshit around like this muddies the waters and help prevents facts from emerging.