Community MetaSteam | September 2019 - Valve, I Know What You Did Last Summer!

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Álvaro de Campos

O nada que é tudo.
Mar 12, 2019
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Alright.

French Justice just called illegal some Steam user conditions.

It's illegal not to be able to resell your games.
It's illegal not to be able to sell your Steam account.
Valve can no longer refuse to refund wallet money because they are now creating electronic money.
User privacy is also flagged.

They've been fined 30 000€.

Didn't have time to read everything in detail, but it's quite something. Don't know if there's an English version elsewhere.


justice report :


Warning : article free for today, don't know if it's available outside France.
This is very short-sighted, and could potentially have big repercussions.
 

fantomena

MetaMember
Dec 17, 2018
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A Norwegian retailer (Komplett.no) posted about Borderlands 3 on their Facebook page about the game being available now. Did not expect as many "Waiting on Steam" (in Norwegian of course) comments as they were.

Maybe, just maybe, people not liking Epics tactics in gaining marketshare is not just a small whiny minority on the Internet.
 

RionaaM

Vogon Poetry Appreciator
Sep 6, 2018
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I'm playing Vampyr and I should've set the difficulty on Easy because the combat in this game is as pleasurable as donkey's ass. Like WTF, you're a vampire but 3 British working class yobos can kill you without breaking a sweat? Come on. It also has the most obnoxious, find the right door among non-interactive environment, level design I've seen since the PS2 days.

Still like the game tho, the atmosphere is great and Dr. Reed is a one hell of a stylish mofo.
Yeah, the game is incredibly flawed. Such a disappointment after Remember Me and Life Is Strange.
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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I guess it's a given that Indivisible will be joining too later. I guess I can pass that up on Steam, shitty regional pricing anyway.
I'm not using Game Pass, at all. Beginning to wonder about me extending my sub these days. Firstly because of my own convoluted psyche, and because of the modern monetization model.
When someone talked about feeling forced to play games on the sub, I thought the idea ridiculous (no offense meant, at all), but maybe there is some comparable feelings at work. I'm not feeling the urge to play those games, but on the other hand, how do I put it... you don't get to choose what I play. I already can't decide myself anyways. Maybe the offering is treated as noise by my mind.
Mhh, convoluted half-assed explanation, sorry.
Then, more importantly, 95% of games are released in chunks nowadays, and DLC are not automatically part of Game Pass. So when the game has been released for some time, like The Surge, I would have to pay more than the sub to buy a DLC for a game I don't own.
And at the end of the day, we go back to the definitive statement of 2019 : there are so many games available anyways...

Story of my life. Also, kudos for using the best Pokemon of all time :heartblob:
Wait a sec, this is not Psyduck !
 
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Alexandros

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Nov 4, 2018
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But devs are currently frustrated at getting 70% of full price. Why would they be ok with only 15% of whatever price a user picks... on a digital (so not actually “used”) good?
That's the great thing about legislation. It wouldn't matter one bit if they're ok with it or not. If it becomes law they'll have to oblige.
 
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fantomena

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That's the great thing about legislation. It wouldn't matter one bit if they're ok with it or not. If it becomes law they'll have to oblige.
So what you are saying, the great thing about laws is that a law can simply tell everyone to go fuck themselves without facing any repercussions other than people protesting.

And btw, a law is not a universal saying if something is good or bad.
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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So what you are saying, the great thing about laws is that a law can simply tell everyone to go fuck themselves without facing any repercussions other than people protesting.

And btw, a law is not a universal saying if something is good or bad.
Are you trying to compare a remark about the legislation on video game marketplaces to an apology of fascism ?
 

Mivey

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Sep 20, 2018
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So what you are saying, the great thing about laws is that a law can simply tell everyone to go fuck themselves without facing any repercussions other than people protesting.

And btw, a law is not a universal saying if something is good or bad.
People have always been able to sell physical games, how does it destroy devs if you have a reasonable equivalent for digital games?
 

fantomena

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People have always been able to sell physical games, how does it destroy devs if you have a reasonable equivalent for digital games?
Dust Golem wrote a post about this on ERA:

No matter how I slice it in my head, I don't think the world is actually ready for this. There's so much that could go wrong with this, for the industry, for the user,... While a physical good is finite and obviously only exists as is, a digital good you can make copies of so the only solution to combat people just buying, making a copy of, and then selling the original is stricter and much harsher DRM and tracking where games go, etc. And it basically would push GaaS and games-as-a-service stuff a lot harder than it's being pushed already.

The only way I think this might be feasible in the present day is if you sold entire accounts rather than individual pieces of your library.

What Alexandros said obviously apply to video game business, your answer seemed beside the point.
His comment was that laws must be obliged to, publishers/devs can't do much about it other than protesting. Doesn't that apply to any given law? If people don't like a law, they can't do much about it other than protesting? And just because a new law forces Valve to make people able to sell their games, doesn't mean it's good. Other consequences can happen like pubs and devs moving even harder to Epic.
 
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Mivey

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Dust Golem wrote a post about this on ERA:
I love Dusk Golem, but that's just dumb. Of course the digital game is limited by the number of unique licenses sold in the first place, and the DRM is Steams database of the corresponding keys.
 
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Rosenkrantz

Once Punched Man
Apr 22, 2019
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Yeah, the game is incredibly flawed. Such a disappointment after Remember Me and Life Is Strange.
I actually prefer it to Remember Me, which I think also had a lot BS segments to its combat, but I think it's fair to say that DONTNOID should concentrate on the narrative driven games instead of action-oriented ones.
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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His comment was that laws must be obliged to, publishers/devs can't do much about it other than protesting. Doesn't that apply to any given law? If people don't like a law, they can't do much about it other than protesting?
I'm not disagreeing, but on this specific topic I think the larger reflexion about law being right or wrong, universal or not, a little too much.
Imho evidently.
 

fantomena

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My prediction: If Steam allows users to resell their games to other users, pubs and devs won't like it, so they will move to Epic or other clients.
 

Alexandros

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So what you are saying, the great thing about laws is that a law can simply tell everyone to go fuck themselves without facing any repercussions other than people protesting.
Yes, that is exactly right. Being able to sell the goods you bought is a fundamental customer right and publishers have removed it by taking advantage of the law's inability to keep up with technological developments. The law absolutely should tell publishers to go fuck themselves.

And btw, a law is not a universal saying if something is good or bad.
Of course. There are all sorts of fucked up laws throughout human history but in this case the law would be objectively good.
 
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fantomena

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Of course. There are all sorts of fucked up laws throughout human history but in this case the law would be objectively good.
I disagree. The ability of reselling games is good and all, I don't disagree on that. I disagree because I think the consequences will be worse. More mtx, pubs/Devs moving to other platforms, higher prices, worse regional pricing, and so on.

Will devs/pubs lock their games to regions? How will the law handle that? How will the law handle region pricing?
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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I don’t necessarily buy the argument about worse DRM solutions.

I do agree that monetization, MTX, and general pricing will go even more insane if digital resale rights were enforced.
I edited my post because not being a native speaker I wasn't sure luxury goods applied. That being said, what ? No seriously and without passive agressivity, I don't understand your answer to me :blushblob:

Edit - Hey, you edited your post, now I look dumb ! Well, dumber than usual.
 
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Mivey

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My prediction: If Steam allows users to resell their games to other users, pubs and devs won't like it, so they will move to Epic or other clients.
And where will they run to once those clients comply with the laws of the EU? Valve certainly doesn't want to do any of this, it cuts into their profits, but it's not about what you want, but what complies with the law
 

gabbo

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Dec 22, 2018
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Toronto
Dust Golem wrote a post about this on ERA:





His comment was that laws must be obliged to, publishers/devs can't do much about it other than protesting. Doesn't that apply to any given law? If people don't like a law, they can't do much about it other than protesting? And just because a new law forces Valve to make people able to sell their games, doesn't mean it's good. Other consequences can happen like pubs and devs moving even harder to Epic.
it would be interesting to see how valve implement such a resale feature into steam and what it would do with region locking the client
 
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Alexandros

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I disagree. The ability of reselling games is good and all, I don't disagree on that. I disagree because I think the consequences will be worse. More mtx, pubs/Devs moving to other platforms, higher prices, worse regional pricing, and so on.

Will devs/pubs lock their games to regions? How will the law handle that? How will the law handle region pricing?
I don't see the connection between game resale and the consequences you mentioned. How will one lead to the other?
 
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