News Epic Games Store

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
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I had to check it but didn't apple have a special deal with Amazon (Prime video), wouldn't that be the same, tho?
The difference is I think Google signed sweetheart deals with app and game developers that ultimately led to a competing store not being created.

Apple never did such a thing - they just created a special class of app (called ‘reader apps’) that have a different deal, but there’s no favouritism or shady deals signed on a case-by-case basis, and Apple have generally shied away from doing such deals because they prefer to deal with precedents.

Apple may contort itself in weird ways, but ultimately all those contortions were applied equally and Epic couldn’t prove in their case that Apple was acting as a monopoly.

Meanwhile we all know Google is a complete scumbag company. I have no love for any Silicon Valley tech company, but some are clearly better than others, and Google is one of the worst.

While I quite enjoyed the “let them fight” approach in this case, I’m kind of glad Epic won. I think they might have something of value to offer on Android.
 

Alexandros

Every game should be turn based
Nov 4, 2018
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It is kinda fucked up though that the completely locked down ecosystem (Apple) won its court case so handily. EU to the rescue please.
 

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
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It is kinda fucked up though that the completely locked down ecosystem (Apple) won its court case so handily. EU to the rescue please.
I mean, Apple were operating within the law.

You can disagree with how they’ve done it (and I do) but as the law stands: it’s Apple’s platform, and their rules apply.

Epic’s case against Apple was flimsy, and it was apparent Epic acted in completely bad faith when dealing with them.

And it’s as you’ve stated, a change in the law is needed to force Apple to open up.

Meanwhile, Google created an open platform because it was convenient for them at the start, and has since worked tirelessly to undermine it and fuck it up.

What Google did with Android is basically their MO across all their products and services. Create an attractive platform then enshittify it to extract rent.

I didn’t think Epic would win this hard, but they sure as shit had a strong case against Google, who have a storied history of treating the law as optional.
 

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
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That’s a nice brief summary of Google being utter bastards.

I know Tim Epic is a shitheel, but Google is far and away a far worse company than Epic. As far as Silicon Valley bad guys go, Google slum it with the absolute worst for the shit they do.

They’ve single-handedly ruined the internet via their search and ad business, and profited greatly from it.

If I had my way, such a company would be legislated out of existence, into a million little pieces. They’re like Microsoft and Meta combined, only ten times worse.

Just pure venomous evil.
 
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Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
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Yeah, the difference in these cases basically seems to be Apple being "We're a closed platform, if you want to be here you need to go through us. Deal with it." and basically just operating based on that, while Google was outwardly like "Look, we're an open platform, come join and build your own presence, it's all fair game" while behind closed doors they were working against those that jumped or wanted to jump on that "promise".
 

Alexandros

Every game should be turn based
Nov 4, 2018
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I mean, Apple were operating within the law.

You can disagree with how they’ve done it (and I do) but as the law stands: it’s Apple’s platform, and their rules apply.

Epic’s case against Apple was flimsy, and it was apparent Epic acted in completely bad faith when dealing with them.

And it’s as you’ve stated, a change in the law is needed to force Apple to open up.

Meanwhile, Google created an open platform because it was convenient for them at the start, and has since worked tirelessly to undermine it and fuck it up.

What Google did with Android is basically their MO across all their products and services. Create an attractive platform then enshittify it to extract rent.

I didn’t think Epic would win this hard, but they sure as shit had a strong case against Google, who have a storied history of treating the law as optional.
Pretty much. It's why most of us said from the start that Epic should have pursued its strategy against Apple through lobbying for legislative change instead of going through the court system.
 

C-Dub

Makoto Niijima Fan Club President
Dec 23, 2018
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I absolutely hate that I am happy one of the biggest shits got a win against the worst shit companies. Makes me feel icky
Eh. Epic will get fucked eventually.

They’re just doing the dirty work for someone else.

I expect a different third party not involved will eventually be the main beneficiary of Google losing.

For example, everyone knows Microsoft has an Android store waiting in the wings. Probably some other guys, too.

Epic will get shafted at some point by a bigger corpo looking to muscle in.
 
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Arc

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But we’ve gotten so much traction with Fortnite in so many different ways, and with the Epic Games Store, right, we’re going to continue investing heavily here. The Epic Games Store is the untold success story in the background. Since it launched in 2018, we now have 80 million monthly active users. Steam has 120 million, so we’re catching them fast! Fortnite has more concurrent users right now than all Steam games combined. You should really expect dramatic changes that benefit all developers over the next few years.
:dizzy-face:

[Editor’s note: Sweeney isn’t right about Fortnite having more concurrent users than Steam. Epic spokesperson Natalie Muñoz confirmed Sweeney misinterpreted a Polygon story about how Fortnite hit 7.6 million players at a time when the entirety of Steam had 10.1 million. These days, Steam generally peaks at over 30 million, with valleys of 20 million. Fortnite’s valleys are closer to 3.8 million.]
Ohhh...

Props to The Verge for correcting Sweeney's BS. (Also comparing a PC only platform to a game that is available on 6 platforms is disingenuous).

Steam hasn't been at 120m MAU since 2020. They're probably closer to 150m by now (hoping Valve gives a MAU update in the next year in review).

Why is Fortnite still not playable on Steam Deck?
If we only had a few more programmers. It’s the Linux problem. I love the Steam Deck hardware. Valve has done an amazing job there; I wish they would get to tens of millions of users, at which point it would actually make sense to support it.
Maybe you shouldn't have fired so many people.

In October 2019, Epic internally said it might pursue an aggressive pursuit model with the Epic Games Store, where it would aggressively pay more for exclusive games and really pull in more and more users. Are you in the aggressive pursuit model?
No, we’re in a different model, which is called the “Ridiculously aggressive pursuit model.” If it’s a 10-slide deck, that’s on slide 11.
What was the last major exclusive that was announced?
 

Alexandros

Every game should be turn based
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Besides all the obvious bullshit he spouted, Tim Sweeney always comes off as such a huge dork when speaking publicly. He's trying so hard to sound funny and cool but he always lands straight into cringe territory.
 

Arc

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Besides all the obvious bullshit he spouted, Tim Sweeney always comes off as such a huge dork when speaking publicly. He's trying so hard to sound funny and cool but he always lands straight into cringe territory.
No wonder he gets along so well with Elon.

I knew he would be insufferable if he won, but good lord this is on a completely different level.
 

Mor

Me llamo Willy y no hice la mili, pero vendo Chili
Sep 7, 2018
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But we’ve gotten so much traction with Fortnite in so many different ways, and with the Epic Games Store, right, we’re going to continue investing heavily here. The Epic Games Store is the untold success story in the background. Since it launched in 2018, we now have 80 million monthly active users. Steam has 120 million, so we’re catching them fast! Fortnite has more concurrent users right now than all Steam games combined. You should really expect dramatic changes that benefit all developers over the next few years.
In October 2019, Epic internally said it might pursue an aggressive pursuit model with the Epic Games Store, where it would aggressively pay more for exclusive games and really pull in more and more users. Are you in the aggressive pursuit model?
No, we’re in a different model, which is called the “Ridiculously aggressive pursuit model.” If it’s a 10-slide deck, that’s on slide 11.
Why are you lying timmy timmy, the store is not in any shape near this state lmao

Everyone knows it is a failure including you but accepting defeat would hurt your pride.
 

Shantom

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Mar 17, 2021
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'Hey Tim, can we have another 100 mil for the store?
'Because it's successful, right?'
'...'
'Because it's successful, right?'
 
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Arc

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fortnite coming to itch and winstore any day now
We’ll compete, and we’ll also put Fortnite on any serious store that gives all developers an awesome deal. Steam, Microsoft, OneStore, anyone: give all developers an awesome deal and we’ll support you. The end of these ridiculous 30% fees is near.


The Windows store has had a 12% cut for nearly three years. Why aren't you there?
 
Dec 5, 2018
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The Windows store has had a 12% cut for nearly three years. Why aren't you there?
I'm old enough to remember when he said that UWP were a bad thing (he wasn't wrong but that's beside the point) and while technically you can put win32 apps now, I'd find him going there funny he won't why would he give money to anyone if he can avoid it.
 
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Arc

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I'm gonna guess PC didn't carry a lot of weight.

Also the first free thing for the winter sale is Destiny 2 Legacy Collection. They're doing that one for 6 days then daily giveaways until the 4th.
 

Paul

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Props to The Verge for correcting Sweeney's BS. (Also comparing a PC only platform to a game that is available on 6 platforms is disingenuous).
In the interview, Sweeney says "Fortnite has more concurrent users right now than all Steam games combined. "

He did not say "more concurrent users than all users online on steam combined".

Fortnite's number is probably not higher than steam's "people in game" number, given that there are 8 million people in-game on steam right now, but that editor's note they added is disproving something he did not say.

Fortnite's 7.6 million is definitely nothing to scoff at. Even if I will personally scoff because I dislike MP games and wish this kind of success to some other games entirely :p
 
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Paul

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Hmm unlike the black friday sale, there are some decent discounts on EGS now, for games like Jedi Survivor, Hogwarts Legacy, Dead Island 2, Lords of the Fallen and others.

Of course, nothing for me this time, I already filled my EGS quota for the year by Alan Wake 2.
 
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Arc

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So you're telling me that publishing requires more than throwing a big fat check ? :thinking-face:
No physical release was boneheaded. The death of physical media has been overstated, especially for single player games. I know in the UK a game like Final Fantasy XVI had nearly 60% of its sales on physical.

In the interview, Sweeney says "Fortnite has more concurrent users right now than all Steam games combined. "

He did not say "more concurrent users than all users online on steam combined".

Fortnite's number is probably not higher than steam's "people in game" number, given that there are 8 million people in-game on steam right now, but that editor's note they added is disproving something he did not say.

Fortnite's 7.6 million is definitely nothing to scoff at. Even if I will personally scoff because I dislike MP games and wish this kind of success to some other games entirely :p
You can track Fortnite's player numbers here. The game fluctuates between 4-7.5 million peak CCU ever since season OG happened. I'll give Epic props for reviving Fortnite as you can see it was in a bad place earlier in the year.

The metaverse isn't the worst idea as it being a hub where you can play different games keeps people engaged. The LEGO mode was a massive success and Rocket Racing and Fortnite Festival had good launches. I don't know what the numbers will be like 6 months from now, but I've read they'll constantly add new content to keep engagement up.
 

Arc

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Detective time! :detectiveblob:

Destiny 2 is currently the 4th most played game on EGS.

The player tracking website Warmind shows that the EGS version of Destiny 2 had ~157k players yesterday.

While it is entirely unclear what "Most Played" means in the context of EGS, it might still give some idea as to what the player populations for the highest ranked games are. I'd wager Fortnite is in the millions of DAU while Rocket League and GTA 5 are in the hundreds of thousands then it tapers off after that. For what it's worth, I remember Destiny 2 being in the 50ish range before the giveaway and Warmind show it had about 7-8k DAU, but sadly I don't have any receipts.

Also Misato is best girl.
 

Arc

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Google and state attorney generals came to a $700 million settlement with regards to Google Play. Information on the settlement can be found here. There are a lot of concessions, many of which Epic wanted, albeit time limited.

And of course, Tim and Epic aren't happy about this.


Corie Wright, Vice President of Public Policy at Epic Games said: The State Attorneys General settled with Google before trial to get a one-time payout with no true relief for consumers or developers. After originally seeking $10.5 billion in antitrust damages identified as Google’s unjustly collected fees, the States Attorneys General settled for a $700 million payout.

Consumers will continue to overpay for digital goods as a result of Google's imposition of supracompetitive 30% fees for Google Play Billing or 26% junk fees on top of payments Google isn't involved in processing. Developers will also continue to be restricted in how they distribute their apps, and developers who choose to use a third party payment option will be forced to use Google's deceptively-labeled "user choice billing" system rather than having creative freedom over the design of their payment systems.

In Epic v. Google, a jury unanimously found that Google violated the antitrust laws in its dealings with developers, potential competitors, and OEMs. The States’ settlement does not address the core of Google’s unlawful and anticompetitive behavior. In the next phase of the case, Epic will seek meaningful remedies to truly open up the Android ecosystem so consumers and developers will genuinely benefit from the competition that U.S. antitrust laws were designed to promote.


The main sticking point is Google still charges a commission for transactions made on their platform, but it is reduced by 4% if you use your own payment processor. Tim's endgame is to be listed on Google Play while avoiding paying Google any fees.

I guess the legal system works when you win, but is an injustice when there's a settlement you don't like.
 
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The main sticking point is Google still charges a commission for transactions made on their platform, but it is reduced by 4% if you use your own payment processor. Tim's endgame is to be listed on Google Play while avoiding paying Google any fees.
I know this is about google. But didn't the apple judge say that apple would still be entitled to some sort of commission for the use of the appstore ? Which leads me to believe that google would also be.
 
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Morten88

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Since we got steam sales data from the insomniac leak, do we have any egs sales leaks? I mean we know they dont sell alot there, but its weird if they only have charts of steam sales.
 
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Arc

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I know this is about google. But didn't the apple judge say that apple would still be entitled to some sort of commission for the use of the appstore ? Which leads me to believe that google would also be.
Something to that degree, yeah. Judge Donato has already said he won't "micromanage" Google's fees which means he isn't going to cap what Google Play can charge.

With the remedy hearings starting in January, I think Epic's main demand will likely be allowing their own payment processor on Google Play without having to pay a commission. As the AG settlement conflicts with this, the judge might deny it. Epic may also demand that the concessions be permanent, but that's me speculating.

Since we got steam sales data from the insomniac leak, do we have any egs sales leaks? I mean we know they dont sell alot there, but its weird if they only have charts of steam sales.
I've not seen anything regarding EGS sales from the Insomniac leak. Either EGS sales are nominal or the team that drafted the report simply didn't include it for whatever reason. :shrugblob:

There was a thread on Reddit several years ago where a person said they weren't allowed to disclose EGS sales, but that shouldn't affect the internal documents from Insomniac.

Just from lurking various websites, EGS appears to be about 1-5% of Steam sales when a game simships. I'd guess AAA games may skew higher and major sales help skew it more towards EGS thanks to coupons.
 

Arc

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This is the second game in several months with a planned EGS release that skipped it at launch. Either those new social features must be really good, or Epic's backend must be really bad.

Also today's free game is probably DNF Duel.
 
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This is the second game in several months with a planned EGS release that skipped it at launch. Either those new social features must be really good, or Epic's backend must be really bad.
Didn't epic want to simship more games not less. Reverse epic first run?

Also today's free game is probably DNF Duel.
I wonder how much they paid for it, since that game is basically dead.
 

madjoki

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AW2 will probably be my second non-free game on EGS, sometime after when I decide to get new GPU (Control being first), if it doesn't come to Steam.
 
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