This is distilled capitalism everyone. Snatching the value of something you didn’t create just because you have money.
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- Thread starter Blizniak
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Quite frankly I’m never going to be taking up Epic’s side so I’ll enjoy Timmy Tencent flopping against Apple for a bit.
yes but let's pretend it's a bad thing cause tim mean to gabe
Just because the Face Eating Wolves Party is doing something good means that I’m gonna vote for them
maybe , but definitely not from Timmy , he wont go against consoles owners
You don't undersand, all sins are forgiven, let's make a monument for Sweeney, he is not doing It for the money or because he desires his own monopoly, he does It for us the gamers™
I absolutely loathe Apple from an OS perspective. They are single-handedly responsible for the most damage ever inflicted on computing's openness. Even Microsoft does not even come close to the loss iOS and to a smaller extent MacOS have caused, normalizing the loss of user control.Apple and Epic deserve each other.
Also, Sweeney is behaving like a pretentious idiot if he is going be screaming his company raking in billions with a copy of PUBG is being oppressed. These look to be very distasteful theatrics. This is a ramp-up of his hypocritical Twitter posturing and I think that by the end of it, VR will have nothing on this shitshow when it comes to filling buckets.
Just read the complaint- Its an anti trust suite.
I'm an EGS defender in some ways but the Irony is thicc here.
i never said it was a selfless act. that doesn't mean it isn't justified that he takes offense to apple purposely banning apps from their store that compete with apple's own services and charging 10x the normal processing fee on their payment service which is the only one allowed on the entire ecosystem.
this fucks over developers of all sizes and is a huge pain that is only put up with because of the apple influence and value of their customer base.
not to mention apple would have had to approve this update after a manual check so it was known this was in the app when it was approved and uploaded to the store heh.
this fucks over developers of all sizes and is a huge pain that is only put up with because of the apple influence and value of their customer base.
not to mention apple would have had to approve this update after a manual check so it was known this was in the app when it was approved and uploaded to the store heh.
Phoenix RISING
A phoenix always RISES!
Dunno how other companies will react.
One can see the merit in an argument against walled gardens, but that doesn't mean picking a side either.
And it especially doesn't mean that $20B company Epic Games is having this argument on behalf of customers or little guy developers.
And it especially doesn't mean that $20B company Epic Games is having this argument on behalf of customers or little guy developers.
paypal charges 2.9% for processing
square is 3%
visa charges 1.5% + 10 cents
apple pay charges 30%
Yeah, that's the thing with Sweeney. He's right on the principle of the matter. A platform holder shouldn't have a say when it comes to what happens on it. They provide the hardware and software, people pay for it, end of story. That's the basic idea behind computing and the PC. The problem is that then he comes in and behaves like one of those companies he decries so much, signing exclusivity deals and harming the best and single most successful implementation of the concept he pretended to care about.
Oh shit, Sweeney filed a lawsuit against Apple! This is now the official thread soundtrack:
Epic didn't write the lawsuit in a day.
I'm curious, does google force applications on android to use their payment system for in app purchases? I may be mistaken but I know that the only official way to get apps on android is the google play store (there are unoffical ways), so is this purchasing model and restriction of types of in app purchases the difference?
Phoenix RISING
A phoenix always RISES!
None of these other companies provide a platform.
i'll agree with this. tim is a douche and is not practicing at all what he preaches in this instance. so for that, i want to say "shut up asshole".
but on the other hand to me it's less about if they are looking past their own nose than if it benefits customers and smaller devs if they were to win.
not sure what you mean? says right there a 5-7% fee would be more reasonable...or heck even allowing a different payment processor in addition to apple pay rather than forcing that to be the only payment method.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I have never cringed this hard before.
Phoenix RISING
A phoenix always RISES!
It's a question. I'm not a math guy. I always thought 30% to be industry standard, so these other numbers are new to me.
LIke
On the one hand
A billion dollar company ABUSING their fanbase of CHILDREN through Weaponization of online outrage against another billion dollar company
is disgusting as fuck
BUT I LOVE THE LITERAL CYBERPUNK INSANITY OF IT NOT GONNA LIE
On the one hand
A billion dollar company ABUSING their fanbase of CHILDREN through Weaponization of online outrage against another billion dollar company
is disgusting as fuck
BUT I LOVE THE LITERAL CYBERPUNK INSANITY OF IT NOT GONNA LIE
As far as I'm concerned, Apple can eat a bag of turnips every day for the coming century. That being said, I think Tim is in the wrong from a restricted standpoint. Payment methods on a platform - meaning store, delivery system and incorporating various features - should be up to the customer and as diverse as possible. That being said, if you buy something on that platform, the holder seems to be entitled to a cut proportional to the service they provide : aforementioned features, exposure, delivery, continued development and support, customer support, etc.
Outside of that platform though, fuck you Apple. You should be free to set up shop independently or with other partners and platform providers. That's the problem with a walled garden, developers have no choice but to use that single, actual monopolistic platform and thus every transaction is forced to go through it. From that standpoint, Tim is in the right.
Edit : Also, what Hektor said. Exploiting a fanbase that is skewing toward the younger end to further your corporate goals is rather nauseating. Especially when you are going around shopping moneyhats and exclusivity deals on an actual open platform at the same time.
Can I warp to the alternate timeline where both these companies sue each other out of existence? Please?
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This is too much man, oh fuck ahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ahahahahahah, this is hilarious! Tim has completely lost it, Jesus Christ!
it is standard but there's no actual reason for that other than "because its the way it is", in fact these companies all copied apple's homework on this. that's why it's standard. however this goes beyond that for apple in specific in that they take the cut of any purchase including services that are not apple-locked.
any subscription or service price is taken from the dev if they sub via apple pay. netflix, spotify, email subscriptions, anything. also if you are going to offer your app on ios you CANNOT point someone to another site to get the sub or allow any payment method in the app other than apple pay. this goes beyond normal "running a platform" fees because none of the traffic for something like netflix runs through apple and they provide no assistance on any subscriptions or issues with the apps that have the subcriptions. also if your app competes with an apple service it will not be allowed at all.
this is why the stream streaming app had to remove the ability to buy things because apple didn't like having a store in their store but would be okay with it in exchange for 30% of any steam purchase made on the app. other apps are countering by not allowing any sign ups in ios (netflix) or just charging 30% more for any service purchased on ios (this is what epic and disney do). xcloud is just not allowed at all because apple runs a game subscription service of their own.
I mean 30% in 2020 is probably too much, but 12% (the epic golden number) is probably too low if you consider alternative payment methods and stuff like that.
But at the end of the day apple could take 0% and still be a problem since they control the whole "distribution".
Okay ... what's the plan here ? to send an army of angry kids to attack apple or what ?HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Phoenix RISING
A phoenix always RISES!
Epic has seen the future:
Its a apple rolling over a human face - forever.
1984 apple video was a play on the two minute hate in 1984. Screening it in fornite with an audience for the purpose of stirring up bad feelings toward apple.... I can't.
The cringe. I think I might even be on Epic's side and I can't with this
Its a apple rolling over a human face - forever.
1984 apple video was a play on the two minute hate in 1984. Screening it in fornite with an audience for the purpose of stirring up bad feelings toward apple.... I can't.
The cringe. I think I might even be on Epic's side and I can't with this
i'm done, this freefortnite thing is just too much
Man....
Imagine publicly embarrassing yourself by going to bat for a billionaire
So, how massive would be a hit if Apple won't budge and Forknife is gone for good?
Not that I'm celebrating, it's pretty friggin petty and unethical of Apple even if it hurts Tim Sweeney in the end.
Not that I'm celebrating, it's pretty friggin petty and unethical of Apple even if it hurts Tim Sweeney in the end.
lol sorry that was almost certainly too detailed in hindsight.
lets say you run phoenix video. your company streams your movies to people over the internet for a fee. you own the app technology, the content, everything. you operate on the web, on smart tvs, and on iphones.
you put up your iphone app and offer a subscription in the app to your service. you notice that people are subscribing a lot over the iphone app but also mostly watching on tv. you also notice that you lose 30% of your subscription fee to apple. this happens for every sign up through apple even if the customer just signed up there and rarely ever uses the app.
you ask apple what's up with that? they say "we offer a platform and customer service and support through our store".
so you ask "cool, does that mean i can send people with technical issues to you if they have a problem?" "no, problems with your app are referred back to you"
"well what about bandwidth. if i'm paying 30% on each subscription forever can you help me out on that end?" "no providing your streams is on you"
"well can i ask people to go to my website in the app so i can get my full subscription fee? it's my service and all my content." "no, if you do that we'll remove you from our store and cancel all your subscriptions"
"can i offer another payment method that isn't yours on my app?" "no, if you do that we'll remove you from our store and cancel all your subscriptions. your only choice if you don't want to lose 30% on ever sub forever is never allow any money to go through our ecosystem or charge your customers more money for using our system"
it's just a shitty affair all around because
1. apple is big business and ios customers are known to spend more money and this policy of 30% on everything applies to every cent that goes through ios.
2. apps that charge a fee are far more looked over than something free. which leads apps to needing to use iap or subscriptions to make money.
3. the subscription 30% cut is permanent and the only alternative is fucking with your customers by making them spend more time or money just because they got the app in the ios store.
Epic will be fine, Fortnite still makes good money, on PC and consoles.
What I'm curious about is what side MS and Sony will take in this battle, if Epic wins, they fucked real good.
Sony already invested in Epic not stirring up shit with them.
Imagine if MS and Google are going to follow Apple and ban Fortnite? I assume together it would be 70% of their playerbase, if not more.