This this this this this. PC gaming is what it is today, because a significant part of the community stood up against shitty stuff like GFWL, UWP and paid online gaming. If you don't like what a certain company is doing with your hobby, giving them your money anyway so they can keep doing it is the wordt thing you can do.
News Epic Games Store
- Thread starter Blizniak
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This this this this this. PC gaming is what it is today, because a significant part of the community stood up against shitty stuff like GFWL, UWP and paid online gaming. If you don't like what a certain company is doing with your hobby, giving them your money anyway so they can keep doing it is the wordt thing you can do.
You'd have to first point me to an argument articulating how being against the practice of exclusivity is wrong, how the assessment that it's harmful to the openness of the PC is wrong. We can have a discussion about it.
Also, I replied earlier before I saw your edit regarding your personal life. I don't mean to invalidate you, and I can't imagine how much it sucks. Pain is pain, and regardless of emotions felt right now, damn that sounds like a rough spot. However, my life sucks too. Many people's do, and while comparing suffering is absolutely toxic and pointless, I would just say that it does not give anyone a license to misbehave.
Even if I, too, would like to be Mal some days.
Probably because WWZ did so much better than expected on EGS.
Yes, because mental health issues are that easy to solve. Just change your perspective.
If you are not sure what to say, maybe don't say anything. Sometimes that's okay too.
Agreed there. It's getting a bit much, and this is definitively not okay. Especially with the double standards displayed regarding the impact of the "clique".
Sad to see you leave. But as I've tried to explain several times in PM, some of your comments really aren't okay. I hope you'll realize this if you re-read this thread, and that we see you back here some day.
Phoenix RISING
A phoenix always RISES!
All of this instead of just making a "positive" EGS thread?
I think anyone who has been following along knows that we are not "anti EGS." We are anti-exclusivity. It just happens that EGS/Tim has made exclusivity one of EGS's fundamental business practices. And so, we've rallied against his attempt to create a closed platform on PC.
IRONICALLY, Tim sues Apple (with implications for every major player—Sony, Microsoft, Valve) because of their walled garden.
Tim/EGS is using their Tencent/Fortnight warchest to shape the gaming industry the way that he wants to, and is going about it in a very hostile way.
Remember:
Ubisoft = Uplay
EA = Origin
Blizzard = Battle.net
CDPR = GOG
Microsoft = Game Pass
Valve = Steam
Literally today, Amazon entered the fray with Luna. Google has Stadia. And so on.
Threads about those platforms have been made, but they're not controversial because they're not creating exclusive ecosystems while simultaneously "de-valuing" games by giving them away for free as EGS has.
I think anyone who has been following along knows that we are not "anti EGS." We are anti-exclusivity. It just happens that EGS/Tim has made exclusivity one of EGS's fundamental business practices. And so, we've rallied against his attempt to create a closed platform on PC.
IRONICALLY, Tim sues Apple (with implications for every major player—Sony, Microsoft, Valve) because of their walled garden.
Tim/EGS is using their Tencent/Fortnight warchest to shape the gaming industry the way that he wants to, and is going about it in a very hostile way.
Remember:
Ubisoft = Uplay
EA = Origin
Blizzard = Battle.net
CDPR = GOG
Microsoft = Game Pass
Valve = Steam
Literally today, Amazon entered the fray with Luna. Google has Stadia. And so on.
Threads about those platforms have been made, but they're not controversial because they're not creating exclusive ecosystems while simultaneously "de-valuing" games by giving them away for free as EGS has.
Phoenix RISING
A phoenix always RISES!
The thing about forums is, if someone makes a post, that doesn't necessarily mean that it was directed to you.
Perhaps in a thread with 243 pages, some of us took the time to summarize this thread for those who do not want to read a year or two of the discourse concerning EGS, so it would be useful to summarize.
Or even for someone like me who checks in every few days instead of every day, to catch up on stuff.
Now I've actually quoted you this time, which means I'm talking directly to you. IDK why you're taking any of this personally.
Chill.
It is no longer about the casual EGS content. You can read the last couple pages to get an idea of why people are still replying.
Wasn't this whole argument started because of the EGS thread not being a reasonable place for people to discuss titles that have been bought out by Epic? People have been throwing the same arguments at eachother since Funktion disabled his account. This discussion lost all merit and nobody is gonna change their opinions.
God why cant people just respect each others opinions and move on. Its so exhausting I feel like im reading an Era thread. Its a forum you dont have to respond to every person that responds to you.
The problem is that people didn't do what you said. The choice to call it out is everyone's but I for one don't like staying silent when something wrong is happening and being said. The reason people have replied so much is exactly the one you have mentioned.
For better or worse, things are done now.
Meh. This guy kept saying being anti-egs and provocative and shit is above all for folks here but in truth it's clear it's more like being anti-anti-egs is above all to him. Flipping out cos I said I'd buy an UT on EGS, stirring shit up after I kindly refused that challenge, then continuing the remarks even after I stopped participating (again, as I said to Function I'm rarely in here and in general do little other than post VR media updates for me to be the reason discussion/the board is unbearable to any other member). The one time he bothered responding to someone without handwaving he just had no points so said "not you" (meaning me) all the while still lumping everyone else together as awful based on "likes" or whatever as the worst and unjustified to him pirates and weaklings that need to set better priorities after someone discussed going through a tough period and still feeling in all this that he's the one being wronged cos his life like everybody's sucks. I've not seen evidence of people being awful when others merely mention an EGS game to a degree warranting this behaviour. Just because someone claims it is common and overtakes any other effort and fucks off over it doesn't make it true. And if its true then take it up with those specific members and have more than "likes" to back it up with rather than vaguely claim everybody sucks and is part of some clique when we don't even interact.
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Phoenix RISING
A phoenix always RISES!
I was going to drop it but to add my $00.02
I hadn't signed on since Sunday, so I literally walked into this tread, did the reading, then posted.
IDK why ppl are getting into their feelings about a video game tread. Like, holy hell what do your conflict resolution skills look like IRL when everyone isn't anonymous?
I know this: I do not respond well to passive-aggressive and self-righteous policing. My conflict resolution skill is direct confrontation. And folks don't wanna see that smoke.
The only way to maintain an unmolested opinion on an open forum is if you keep it to yourself.
If you don't like how people are responding to your opinions, well then, my advice to you is to formulate a more compelling one.
Otherwise, let reason prevail.
Yes, and to add the last several shit pages aren't the result of the anti-EGS sentiment either, it was the topic people were directed to when coming in, if it's a shit thread or not, if we need a new thread or not (toward which opinions were said without insulting opposing opinions or meaning that one opinion should prevail, anyone was free to make any thread, as was done), if people were being unfair to people who liked EGS or not. And that's what people were discussing, there weren't pro-EGS posts getting attacked, the discussion wasn't even if EGS is or isn't good, everyone accepted opinions differ, the topic became what to do, if anything, with the disagreement. The only one still making it all about the other side's bad opinion and nature as awful bullies or whatever over it was him. Edit: now he's deleting the posts (yet my OCD edits were an issue, lol) so that when he returns it'll be to say what, evil Alex has a history of driving folks away he can vouch for from past run-ins as he said earlier and we were ganging up on him and nothing will be left to show the truth. Folks were super accepting and tolerant despite being insulted over and over (I mean others, I stopped posting after that response), he kept doing worse. Just saying, it makes little/no difference to me.
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I believe Epic fucked themself with the coupons. My observation on Reddit, ERA and other places when people comment they have bought something on EGS it's because of the coupons, I never see anyone buying without coupons.
Epic won't give out coupons forever, it's not sustainable and they can do it due to Fortnite revenue and the current coupons expire in 4 days.
Even I who don't like EGS has no problem with seeing that the coupons are a good incentive and actual good competition from Epic, but it won't last forever.
Epic won't give out coupons forever, it's not sustainable and they can do it due to Fortnite revenue and the current coupons expire in 4 days.
Even I who don't like EGS has no problem with seeing that the coupons are a good incentive and actual good competition from Epic, but it won't last forever.
The holiday sale will give some indication as to where Epic goes with their coupon program. If they continue their unlimited coupons then they'll still be going full steam ahead for the foreseeable future. If they only offer one per customer then it'll be indication they're scaling back the program.
I think the biggest problem with coupons might be their effect on new releases, and that many of them were issued without consulting with the studios it might impact. That was just pure negligence on Epic's behalf, but not really an Exclusivity problem. Coupons might actually have been a good thing, if thought through a little more thoroughly by Epic and I'd like other stores to try something like it, sometime.
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Makes sense to me. There are only two reasons to buy a product on a service that is offering you a worse experience:
Either the product is exclusive.
or
The price is significantly better.
Coupons were a smart idea and the carrot that was needed from the beginning.
Epic would have gotten far less hatred and dislike towards their store if they didn't do exclusives and only coupons and free games since the beginning.
Absolutely. My guess for Epic's counter-argument would be that free games and coupons don't bring in day-one buyers.
Perhaps. But since [UWSL]Sweeney said that the store wars will be decided by developers and not consumers, I still believe their l[/UWSL][UWSL]ong-term plan is based on exclusivity. In that case, moneyhatting popular 3rd party games may be meant to make pc gamers used to exclusivity, and the coupons to prevent the moneyhatted games from flopping on EGS. The free games are more than sufficient to fill people's libraries on EGS. [/UWSL]
I think a less smug attitude would have gone a long way.
Like, yeah, exclusives suck, but if you arent trying to bill them as being good for customers along side the 'we need a foothold' argument, it would be easier to take. Half their original pitch was 'X is good for gamers' and clearly their half baked store ideas are what's best for Epic and some already well off devs they want to pay.
I wouldnt have used the store any more than I do now, but I wouldn't be as averse to it as I am for ideological reasons. And GeoForce's post above mine shows it was never really about us anyway.
Well they have announced far less timed exclusives this year than they did last year.
This year there has been Hitman 3, Kena, Jett, Bugsnax, Tony Hawk and maybe something Im missing, but that might mean they are not "big games"
Last year and in 2018 they had Satisfactory, Hades, Control, Outer Worlds, Borderlands 3 etc.
I'm pretty sure there were a lot more. The new Total War was a huge get, Mortal Shell was reviewed as the new Dark Souls and many people were looking forward to Crysis Remastered. Plus Epic is publishing the next games of Remedy and a few other popular devs.
Perhaps Mor has a better idea how many timed exclusives were announced this year compared to last year? Wasn't he the one keeping a list of exclusives?
This year they have announced far less exclusives compared to their first year and while it's true some reviewed really great, their engagement has been quite low in comparison with their expectations.
In case you wonder, today we have 137 games that are or have been exclusive (33% of those already out on Steam and some on GOG) in December 31, 2019 the number of games that are or have been exclusives was 99 games, by the end of the year we should have at least 40% of those timed on other platforms, however, delays have been happening due to the pandemic so while contractual obligation is still up, it delays the release date of other platforms in consequence.
As you can see they slowed down and turned into a different direction, now they allow multi-store releases and right now the number of games on the store is almost 340 games. However, in terms of performance is difficult to measure their success or their failure as very little information has been given and, well, data available is third party so... grain of salt always.
Anyway, any doubt or question, please ask
tl;dr - Last year they did 99 deals, this year only 36.
This year they have announced far less exclusives compared to their first year and while it's true some reviewed really great, their engagement has been quite low in comparison with their expectations.
In case you wonder, today we have 137 games that are or have been exclusive (33% of those already out on Steam and some on GOG) in December 31, 2019 the number of games that are or have been exclusives was 99 games, by the end of the year we should have at least 40% of those timed on other platforms, however, delays have been happening due to the pandemic so while contractual obligation is still up, it delays the release date of other platforms in consequence.
As you can see they slowed down and turned into a different direction, now they allow multi-store releases and right now the number of games on the store is almost 340 games. However, in terms of performance is difficult to measure their success or their failure as very little information has been given and, well, data available is third party so... grain of salt always.
Anyway, any doubt or question, please ask
tl;dr - Last year they did 99 deals, this year only 36.
Thank you so much for providing us with so much useful information Mor!
I'm really curious how non-exclusive games are doing on EGS. No doubt these coupons are giving EGS a huge advantage, but still, I wonder if they really have a loyal audience already. As long as Epic doesn't show the number of (concurrent) players, there's no way to know...
A pleasure, data is amazing to shareThank you so much for providing us with so much useful information Mor!
Impossible to know, it is true that we can do some assumptions based on total copies sold and having the AREA (not number) of Steam release but even then it's nothing more than a potential outcome, at this very moment we don't have any way to measure the success or failure of any copy, we can just guess based on the surrounding data (engagement on social network, Twitch consumption, reviews, those sort of things) but nothing else.
I think if they were selling really well Tim would be tweeting about it all the time.
Although I have my theories and my personal opinion about what's going on, I try to stick to the facts given that I can show the data in a potential discussion
Perhaps. But why would Epic lower the amount of moneyhatted games if their store isn't doing well? I mean, it's not that they don't have the money to keep buying exclusive games for many, many years. Epic is still earning billions with Fortnite.
There were reports on Twitter earlier this year that Epic has changed the way the do moneyhats, now they want devs and pubs to approach them, not the other way around which is how they started (Epic approaching devs and pubs). That way Epic may also get stricter and better terms for deals on their side.
I'm sure they'll go after games they want/can get. How much better terms do they need, they got most exclusives free, pre-paying sales they thought viable.
Tim's ongoing shenanigans with Apple seem to dominate his feed of late, with a cursory glance at his twitter.
He's no real metric to go by at the best of times.
Like not letting devs/pubs be allowed to say if their game is timed exclusive or not. With the first exclusives most devs and pubs didn't have a problem with saying their game will come to Steam or "other PC storefront" later.
Did it changed that much ? Darkest Dungeon devs didn't have any problem to say that DD2 will release on Steam and other store (GoG ?) in V1.0 when they announced egsclu for early access.
(And hello everyone, it's been a while
)
This isn't true, most devs have no problem saying what their future plans are however it's not always easy to find the answer and the official confirmation. proof is that only 40 out of the 336 games that are on the store at this very moment have no official confirmation of their status and it's mostly due to the lack of communication from the company itself than contractual obligation.
In fact inside those 40 unknown statuses, there are a good number of games that are completely dead. (abandoned by the own devs)
Missed you Ruvon, glad to see you backDid it changed that much ? Darkest Dungeon devs didn't have any problem to say that DD2 will release on Steam and other store (GoG ?) in V1.0 when they announced egsclu for early access.
(And hello everyone, it's been a while
They have been doing things differently since late 2019, yes. They aren't "paying through the nose" as much as they were initially.
Having lots of money doesn't mean you're willing to throw it away on a losing strategy. I think Tim is spiteful enough to keep it up indefinitely, but there are other investors and he's trying to attract more.
Also, I think their pending litigation is putting pressure on them to get the EGS to a point where it's profitable. It's hard to argue that Apple/google should run their platforms like epic runs their store if that store is underwater.
Creative Assembly's blog post about Troy refutes that.
It could be a mix of both, but Epic is still approaching devs to some degree.
The Apple lawsuit seems like a combination of an investment and Tim's own personal grudge. Some estimates put Epic at losing only $27 million a month iOS revenue which is a only about 5% of the company's total estimated revenue in 2020. It's not immaterial, but it won't do major harm to the company. If Epic wins, they will get back their hundreds of millions and then some.
Also Tim really wants to paint himself as a moral crusader going against the evil monolith that is Apple. (As an aside, the fact he is willing to throw his iOS audience under the bus, even when Apple tried to offer an escrow account for Fortnite so that the game could be reinstated during the trial really annoys me. He could play crusader while not completely hosing 10% of his playerbase).
Maybe the prices for securing exclusives went way up. We're almost two years after launch, many devs will know how well EGS exclusives have sold so far. In the beginning many of them clearly thought that they'd get Epic's money and then enjoy lots of sales at a 88% split as the audience followed them to the new platform. Most of them realized along the way that the audience didn't follow them, so they were stuck not being able to make any extra money for a whole year. Imagine spending all of Epic's cash early on and then realizing that you can't burn through the number of copies that Epic pre-bought.
Do you have a source for this? Giving away Total War Troy for free on release day must have been pretty expensive for Epic, as well as getting exclusivity for Tony Hawk from greedy Activision.