News Epic Games Store

[Kyougar]

I mean, did you read the medium post put up by the dev? We can use another word other than harassment if you want. Hassle it is.

There's one.

Another.

We can do better and we should call out and comdemn this stuff, even when the dev's are not our favorite people. I'm not a fan of them personally or of their game.

These are just two people and I don't care if they're painting me with a brush. We'll never interact.

You say "we". So you are part of these people? I am not.

These are fuckwits on the internet, they exist since the dawn of the Internet. They revel in the attention. And the only attention they should be getting is from the police if they are sending death threats.
There will always be fuckwits somewhere who post such things, there are thousands of devs who also get such posts.
If there are posts dissing you: ignore it
If there are death-threats, call the police.
if there is harassment from a specific person that goes into stalking: call the police.

 

[SRossi]

I mean, did you read the medium post put up by the dev? We can use another word other than harassment if you want. Hassle it is.

There's one.

Another.

We can do better and we should call out and comdemn this stuff, even when the dev's are not our favorite people. I'm not a fan of them personally or of their game.

These are just two people and I don't care if they're painting me with a brush. We'll never interact.

Did we do it? Did you do it? Do you believe someone here did it? If not, then why did you bring the shit here? Btw I found the one funny that said they both deserve each other

 

[beep boop]

No cynicism needed. Just look at the type of posts Sweeney & co make on Twitter. Getting people riled up and then discrediting the real issues is the point. Look at that latest statement about Ooblet. Notice the "technical analysis" mentioned? Surely that refers to people looking into the data Epic's client collects from your Steam install. That reads as a way to sweep a bunch of other legitimate issues under the rug while addressing the harassment. If not, they should dispense with the vagueries. But they won't, because it works in their favor.

 

[Trisolarian]

You say "we". So you are part of these people? I am not.

These are fuckwits on the internet, they exist since the dawn of the Internet. They revel in the attention. And the only attention they should be getting is from the police if they are sending death threats.
There will always be fuckwits somewhere who post such things, there are thousands of devs who also get such posts.
If there are posts dissing you: ignore it
If there are death-threats, call the police.
if there is harassment from a specific person that goes into stalking: call the police.

I mean I'm a gamer so... yeah. I consider myself part of the gaming community. It has it's shitty parts. We can only control what we do and we should keep it civil. Encourage others to do the same, That's it.

The internet will never be a nice place but at least we can make it nicer.

 

[SRossi]

I mean I'm a gamer so... yeah. I consider myself part of the gaming community. It has it's shitty parts. We can only control what we do and we should keep it civil. Encourage others to do the same, That's it.

The internet will never be a nice place but at least we can make it nicer.

Smh

 

[Nyarlathotep]

The response is sometimes it isn't super important for you to run over to the game's reddit/discord or forums to join in with pitchforks, even if you have reasonable criticism. Yes, SRossi going to put me on blast for this but so be it. A reasonable request can be made unreasonably. Yes the dev's poked the bear but they thought it was a cute little cub and not a giant grizzly. A bad move from people who don't seem to like their audience, yes.

But the narrative has now shifted in such a way that any criticism of any sort can now be dismissed as harassment.

 

[Wildebeet]

I'm disliking the EGS, a lot. I started boycotting them because I don't want third party exclusivity, but after all the acquisitions, name calling, provokations and general toxicity from Tim and his bribed dev echo chamber I'm done with Epic and everybody involved entirely.
But the truth is: Without third party exclusivity and the toxic behavior towards me I would have used the EGS, because I actually like the idea of indi devs getting a better cut. And I'm talking about true independent publishing devs, because I couldn't care less about TakeTwo, DeepSilver or other

Yeah I get that. I would use EGS even with the annoying 1 year exclusivity, depending on the game. I'm not on some boycott. I was actually planning to buy Rebel Galaxy Outlaw to give EGS a try. But now I'm like, everything going on with EGS feels so nasty and backhanded, it's hard for me to really push that purchase button. I make a practice of ruthlessly staying far away from people places and things that make life worse, not better. EGS is falling into that worse category more often than not.

Seriously, two days ago before I saw the Ooblets blowup, I had updated my Epic launcher, was browsing their wonky store page, got my five millionth copy of Alan Wake for free, thought about buying Journey. Then saw drama everywhere with devs I like. Not fun. Didn't purchase. Closed EGS launcher. I can't understand having a game store, of all things, to be a source of mean spirited drama in my life.


As a side note, that Epic Games: Friend to The Little Guy narrative is bonkers. EGS is using these devs to intentionally cause division and controversy to bring attention to their storefront. They're writing checks and cutting them in a bit, sure. At first it looks like smart risk management. But Epic isn't standing by them. They're lining them right up for the wringer of the internet, paying them to do something that they know will piss people off and cause that controversy and division they require for attention, and letting these little companies get chewed right up. Then the next one and the next until Epic gets what they want. What is strange is that so many developers express genuine SHOCK! when they see what their role actually was in all this.

 

[Trisolarian]

But the narrative has now shifted in such a way that any criticism of any sort can now be dismissed as harassment.

That will pass. A lot of reasonable people here and other places can see right through that BS. Just look at the tweets that NarohDethan posted.

We're never going to get Jason Schreier or Nathan Grayson on our side. Or from console only gamers who troll other places. Don't waste your time those people and places. Lost cause.

 

[NarohDethan]

At the end of the day, once the contract has been signed nothing can be done. We can talk about it but the reality is that Epic has more money than all of us combined for several lifetimes, and there's a lot of people who will take it. The only appropiate response is to just not consume. The industry is console first and has been from quite some time ago. Nobody will be on our side, and people will engage in some weird posturing just to 'spite' us. (Yes keep giving Epic money, that will show us. After all, it will trickle down to its employees no? ).

 

[Kyougar]

On another note:

Always hilarious seeing mostly non-PC-gamers or AAA-only-gamers stating that they will now buy the game.

Anti-EGS: "I will never buy this game now"
Pro-EGS: "You would have never bought the game in the first place."

Pro-EGS: "Game looks cool, I will support this dev and buy the game"
Anti-EGS: "You will never buy this game."

 

[NarohDethan]

On another note:

Always hilarious seeing mostly non-PC-gamers or AAA-only-gamers stating that they will now buy the game.

Anti-EGS: "I will never buy this game now"
Pro-EGS: "You would have never bought the game in the first place."

Pro-EGS: "Game looks cool, I will support this dev and buy the game"
Anti-EGS: "You will never buy this game."

Even worse, they're just paying Epic back. Then they act surprised when Epic continues to exploit their workers.

 

[Futaleufu]

But the narrative has now shifted in such a way that any criticism of any sort can now be dismissed as harassment.

And now you can say "its just another launcher" with impunity

 

[m_dorian]

Harassment and death threats do not help. If they did it would have solved all the world's problems.
Before posting take a couple of deep breaths and ask your self if it is worth it.
It will help if you are not intoxicated too.

Criticize and be harsh on your criticism with arguments and examples, they have n't beat us on this front and all they can do is "la la la la i can't hear you, Just another launcher." crap.
Do not give them the moral high ground. Assholes like Sweeney that they do not really care for devs, just care for their own goal, will use it against us.
If you want to help, do not harass the devs.

Attack them with arguments; Yes. This will ridicule them efficiently.
Sending them death threats? No. Grow up. All in all they are just video games, they do not go against your self and your family.

Be harsh. Be nice. Be efficient.

 

[NarohDethan]

Good thread.

 

[Wok]

There will always be fuckwits somewhere who post such things, there are thousands of devs who also get such posts.

The number of messages was of the same order of magnitude than the number of their Twitter followers (49k). One cannot explain it away with the presence of a few "fuckwits" in the general population. It is a coordinated harassment campaign, which is easy to orchestrate with all the available tools (Discord, Reddit).

we’ve gotten literally tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of messages on every conceivable platform

Good thread.

The first two stores were obvious (Steam, GOG). But the third? I was like, what is the third store? Then I saw it was Origin.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Good thread.

Good thread but I still think Casey is also absolutely bang on the money. Epic are clearly pursuing a strategy that courts controversy, albeit not one that's intended to cause this level of utterly vile animosity

 

[NarohDethan]

Good thread but I still think Casey is also absolutely bang on the money.

Yeah the guy was a bit ascerbic in his response to Casey haha but he is also right, so is Casey.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Could we please stop talking about other forums? There are some ugly places that focus on specific forums and talking bad about them, I don't want Meta to become one of those.

I would generally agree with you, but it is sometimes unavoidable due to "influence culture."

There are many internet publications, reputable and not-so-much, that will ride the coattails of a thread made there.

I myself would not have heard about the latest "news" in regards to an EGS dev getting harassed if it were not for that thread. Likewise, I, too, am perplexed by the moderation methods there, which is part of the reason why here exists.

You can disown your parents, but you still share DNA.


There will always be a connection.

They didn't make the product for us.
They made a product for money and ultimately for themselves.

I think that's an important differentiation and something to keep in mind in our capitalist world.

Bread isn't being made to feed, it's made to earn money. And so it is being made cheap, unhealthy with sugar, artificial flavours and the magic of chemistry. Because the goal isn't too make somebody healthy, the goal is to make as much money as possible.
Car manufacturers are cheating, global warming is being dismissed, nestle thinks water isn't a human right, Bayer is the biggest and most shitty pharmaceutical company ever that willingly killed people for profit. The list is infinite.

There is not one single company taking us seriously or caring about us. Consume, consume more, make dept and die. Also shut up and swallow lies.

No idea why people think the game industry is different. Buy and if you don't buy, you are the enemy.

What's surprising to me is how many people are defending companies. They are all shit.

For gaming journalism. I guess it never managed to grow up and become serious. The ties between journalists and Devs/pubs were there from the beginning and grew over time. It's like a circle of friends reporting on each other. Nobody wants to be to harsh, after all you grew up together.

All facts.

And ppl wonder why mental health is in crisis. There are many of us who have known these things for years and there's 0 we can do about it.

I did write a long-ass rant about not doing politics or how developers should not express their worldviews (I generally disagree, and that individuals and companies should continue to talk politics and issues), but it was too rambly so I'll just say this:

We need to restore the transactional relationship between customer and developer. We're not patrons of the arts, we're buying a product. But those products will be made by people with political views, and those views will manifest themselves in the games. It's unavoidable.

But don't let yourself be guilted into supporting the nice guy indies because they're just hustling for your dollar, and some of them will take it so far that they will infuse their public persona with faux-progressive identity politics and then insert their product into the mix so that (often marginalised and impressionable) people blindly support them. And it's usually the ones who lean on their faux-progressive public personas or nostalgia over their previous works the hardest who wind up acting like the biggest cunts the second they no longer need your money.

I've been hoodwinked by it more than once, so have most of you guys. They won't stop doing it so you need to show some scruples where they aren't willing to. Just remember you're buying a product and don't do anything to "support" anyone. Love the art, not the artist.

This reminds me that I finally got around to posting my negative review of YIIK on Steam. Won't show up in the metadata on Steam though since it was a "free" copy.

might not be a bad idea tbh

I was doing that this weekend, just playing games. Now I come in to work after taking the whole weekend off because of EVO and I come back to the industry on fire.

I swear I've seen someone get banned for posting this after one of those patented "mod posts." Maybe it was just before the PCEra exodus?

Counter-argument: POTUS

 

[RionaaM]

I would generally agree with you, but it is sometimes unavoidable due to "influence culture."

There are many internet publications, reputable and not-so-much, that will ride the coattails of a thread made there.

I myself would not have heard about the latest "news" in regards to an EGS dev getting harassed if it were not for that thread. Likewise, I, too, am perplexed by the moderation methods there, which is part of the reason why here exists.

You can disown your parents, but you still share DNA.


There will always be a connection.

I get what you mean, but I don't see anything constructive about discussion the moderation of another forum. I know most of us had history there, and for many it goes back to a time before it even existed, but that's it. It really feels icky to me to be discussing how other places choose to run themselves. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to silence anyone or kill discussion of Era or any other forum, it's just that... I don't know. You know how some forums are focused on them to the point of hostility, and I don't want this place to be anywhere near that. I'd rather we focus on the industry at large, rather than on specific forums and how we believe they conduct themselves right or wrong. I get wanting to vent, I truly do, but to me there's nothing to be gained by complaining about other forums' staff in here.

 

[Alextended]

The blogpost tone is really different now.

Those screenshots though, yikes.

Shittiest blog post just doing the same thing they've been doing from the start, lumping everyone together. Yeah, it's not specific minorities that engaged in the bullshit, no, it's the "broader gaming/internet community" (how many millions of people can that possibly include to think even hundreds of thousands of verified individuals engaging in the harassment is a big part of that, lol?) which is an "outsider" to a divine game like Ooblets and all for "attacking people" while their announcement was simply trying to change their mind about that and make them see the light of gaming jesus EGS by poking fun, but failed. Meh.

Harassment sucks, opportunist fucks lumping people together to avoid actual debate while claiming they were open to that possibility from the start (they never were and always dismissed criticism of any kind) also suck. No amount of harassment excuses them for that so I didn't even read past that opening bullshit just to see screenshots of whatever, I've seen a lot of that online and don't need to see more, nor are they the shining beacons of light that will be what makes the internet change as they take advantage of the situation to further their own goals and dismiss anyone who thinks differently as part of the lynch mob.

Write something about harassment itself and I'll be with you grabbing my pitchforks against those who do it.

Try to use the situation to further your agenda instead, presenting it as the one truth and not up for debate and as something the harassers and by extention anyone who disagrees with you can't see and you can kindly fuck off just like them as far as I'm concerned.

I was even absolutely fine with their initial statement when I had only seen the bit about how they chose to do it for themselves, but they had to go out of their way to do EGS PR with the same bullshit non-points and ruin everybody's day then insist that if you express disagreement you don't care for big, real life issues.

 

[Alexandros]

I swear I've seen someone get banned for posting this after one of those patented "mod posts." Maybe it was just before the PCEra exodus?

Man that was a cool internet moment. The timing on that post was just perfect.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Man that was a cool internet moment. The timing on that post was just perfect.

It was hilarious and totally worth the ban.

 

[Digoman]

Man that was a cool internet moment. The timing on that post was just perfect.

It was hilarious and totally worth the ban.

I know we should avoid commenting about the moderation on Era but... yeah, it was. He got a 1 month ban because it was just after a Admin message: "Get back on the topic of PC gaming and stay there and do not derail this thread again with metacommentary. "

PC Gaming Era | April 2019 - Goodbye, Uzzy is your new King

But going back on topic.... that last blog is a little better, but not by much. It shows some really awful things people sent their way, but don't really give any space for any legit criticism.

Nothing justifies the harassment they received. It just that this new narrative is going to make the subject even more difficult to discuss.

Man... I didn't think much of The Last Jedi and I am now anti-EGS... I'm very good at picking sides in controversies

 

[Kvik]

I know we should avoid commenting about the moderation on Era but... yeah, it was. He got a 1 month ban because it was just after a Admin message: "Get back on the topic of PC gaming and stay there and do not derail this thread again with metacommentary. "

cluto is here too. They didn't post much, though. Are they still making Steam threads over there?

 

[Rogue Agent]

The best we can do is keep criticising EGS while ignoring the gaslighters, astroturfers, trolls (and yes, even journalists, devs and other game industry people belong in these categories), etc. At the same time, we should always speak out against harassment regardless of the topic, Ooblets devs acted like jerks to put it lightly and they're still acting like jerks, but nobody deserves death threats and harassment.

Of course, the harassment and death threats advice is par for the course and not aimed at anybody here, since everyone here isn't some GamerGate, alt-right pieces of trash who loves to prey on people and ruin their lives.

 

[cluto]

cluto is here too. They didn't post much, though. Are they still making Steam threads over there?

Here I is.

The gif I made to inaugurate my first post here continues to be more relevant than ever apparently. Look closely now, children.

 

[lashman]

Look closely now, children.

i saw it, lol

 

[Crayon]

Yep. Ha!! I don't blame Tim though.

Tim may seem like an asshole, but really he just doesn't care about anybody but himself and doesn't care who knows it.

Actually maybe Tim's an asshole.

 

[z1ggy]

Here I is.

The gif I made to inaugurate my first post here continues to be more relevant than ever apparently. Look closely now, children.

I always wanted to tell you are my hero

 

[Oheao]

Did we do it? Did you do it? Do you believe someone here did it? If not, then why did you bring the shit here? Btw I found the one funny that said they both deserve each other

You said they deserved what they got, now you've pivoted to this. It's clear some of you guys don't give a fuck about the harassment they've received.

 

[Alexandros]

Our boy Nathan Grayson chimed in with an article. I assume you won't be surprised to know that this is all Valve's fault.

 

[derFeef]

Oh nononono Kotaku, why.

 

[zefah]

Man that was a cool internet moment. The timing on that post was just perfect.

That ridiculous ban was honestly what prompted me to check out Metacouncil and make an account.

 

[m_dorian]

We need a podcast.
But not to spew hate and go extreme. We need to be harsh on our criticism but fair and avoid extremities.

We need to organize.

 

[derFeef]

We need a podcast.
But not to spew hate and go extreme. We need to be harsh on our criticism but fair and avoid extremities.

We need to organize.

People are not even trying to read and understand written criticism and just ignore facts.

 

[Swenhir]

Our boy Nathan Grayson chimed in with an article. I assume you won't be surprised to know that this is all Valve's fault.

How. Just... How.

Edit : Well, as nauseating as expected.

In the world of PC gaming, Valve is the biggest example of a company that utterly failed to keep its audience in check. Valve spent years lingering in the shadows, resolutely remaining hands-off until everything caught on fire and even the metaphorical “This is fine” dog could no longer ignore the writing on the wall.

I can't get over my repulsion. Does he really believe that an audience is a child or some sort of subject to keep subjugated? In what world is it a company's right to control the behavior its customers? In what world is that even possible?

I guess in the light that Valve has indeed not played ball with anyone regarding outrage, instead doing what's right on a case by case basis, yes the press would hate them with a passion. This happens to suit Epic's strategy just fine.

 

[Kvik]

A choice quote from Mr. Grayson.

Recently, Valve has begun to take aim at some of these issues, but the damage is already done. Whether unknowingly or out of malice, Valve went on to fire the starting gun for this same audience to start giving Epic Store developers trouble. When publisher Deep Silver announced that Metro Exodus would be an Epic Store exclusive, Valve published a note on the game’s Steam store page calling the move “unfair.”

 

[derFeef]

Woah, Valve said "unfair".
Such dickheads. installs Epic launcher

 

[Swenhir]

A choice quote from Mr. Grayson.

He couldn't demonstrate that he's a tool any more clearly. Oh well. It's not like anyone's really fooled by this.

 

[derFeef]

He couldn't demonstrate that he's a tool any more clearly. Oh well. It's not like anyone's really fooled by this.

I dunno, reading comments, twitter and other forums - a lot actually.

 

[Swenhir]

I dunno, reading comments, twitter and other forums - a lot actually.

Sure, but how about those people that roll their eyes and just close the tab? I'm not advocating passivity or apathy but I doubt that something that wrong and false has lasting power. The truth always comes out.

 

[Alexandros]

Woah, Valve said "unfair".
Such dickheads. installs Epic launcher

They really said that?!

 

[Hektor]

i am prepared for the worst

 

[Swenhir]

i am prepared for the worst

Ugh. Well, as expected from the companies that won't foot the bill for patching a broken PC game. They'll be right at home in not giving a fuck about PC while feeling entitled to sales at Epic.

 

[Rosenkrantz]

That moment when you're happy that you've never cared for Drakengard and Nier.

Taro is console dev first tho, as shitty as it is he doesn't have any investment in PC side of the industry, I guess there's no hard feelings on his part.

 

[prudis]

Might me cynical reading alll the articles this morning , seems like epic folk successfully managed to paint any form criticism of EGS as racist (pcgamer) or conspiracy theories (venturebeat) , just by sacrificing their smallest partner (and game rarely anyone cared before) to the crazy parts of the web by tainting the sickos .

And with 2 weeks until GC and them already succeeding , i am really curious whats next , the upcoming scloosie batch si surely on gamecom and probably with something really big seeing the machinery past few weeks.

But like whats the endgame they are going for?????

Especially now with the sick bastards brought to the frontlines and because of these few sickos media generalizing all gamers into one toxic blob and some of the devs being preemtively openly antagonistic .
I just dont see anything good coming out of this in the long run :-(

And i dont see epic pulling their head out of their ass and like making a good platform instead of stirring up shit on social media .

 

[derFeef]

This day started out very good...

 

[Kyougar]

Sterling has caved and made his criticism video on the ooblet dev private.

 

[Rosenkrantz]

Especially now with the sick bastards brought to the frontlines and because of these few sickos media generalizing all gamers into one toxic blob and some of the devs being preemtively openly antagonistic .
I just dont see anything good coming out of this in the long run :-(

It'll cool down with time. Hovewer, devs are betting on a wrong horse here. Sooner or later Epic will stop their charity program and devs will have to appease to the gaming crowd again, and how're you gonna do it if you spectacularly burned all the bridges thinking that tomorrow never comes?

 

[Eferis]

I mean I'm a gamer so... yeah. I consider myself part of the gaming community. It has it's shitty parts. We can only control what we do and we should keep it civil. Encourage others to do the same, That's it.

No, you're not. You're a person who plays games and the only gaming communities you're part of are those you willingly invest your time in. This "gamer" thing is such a stupidly vague concept that makes no sense. My mum plays Candy Crush on her phone, is she part of this so-called 'gamer' community? A grandmother of a person I know used to play games on the Wii, is she part of this 'gamer' community? Is a kid who plays games on 3DS with no online friends part of the 'gamer' community? My girlfriend has her own gaming PC and follows gaming news through me but isn't member of any gaming forum or website, is she part of that community? No, because each is part of their own community made of people that has absolutely nothing to do with what those you'll usually define as 'gamers', just like people like us have nothing in common and nothing to share with those toxic communities that jump on every single occasion to harass people.

Do those gaming journalists that are writing about these "toxic gamers" play games? Are they gamers too then? Are they toxic?

If a movie gets dogpiled on on the Internet because of some stupid reason, have you ever seen someone address the problem as "these fucking movie-watchers, what a shitty community"? When this happens to a book have you ever read a "these toxic readers" take? No, because somehow they're rightly considered as individuals doing something shitty. Why this doesn't apply to games?

Edit: This doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing something good, be nice to people or lead through example, but not because you feel you should improve the image of your own community.