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[City 17]

No, they're banning people who are essentially saying that the Ooblets developers were "asking for it".

If it's directed at me, I was pretty clear that "it was like they were asking for trouble", as in riling up people, making snarky comments, downplaying everything, alienating a big section of their audience, or even the ones who supported them on Patreon (basically we don't need you or your opinion anymore), with that horrible "reeeee" tweet, or calling everyone not agreeing with them "toxic/manbaby/kids/..." posts like this “honestly the biggest reason we didn’t do a kickstarter is we didn’t want to deal with entitled baby gamers holding even more power over us.” or several other ones. They weren't asking for "harassment", no sane person would, but they were definitely looking for "trouble", where it'd have lead to a PR disaster at best, but it got worse, as I said in my post they didn't deserve it, no one deserves this, it's pretty shitty, but they didn't help the situation, they added more fuel for those pathetic people out there that live for such situations.

But go on, reminding their wrong steps = defending harassment = downright harassing people

 

[Rosenkrantz]

Your main point of concern is that this harassment means you will be under more scrutiny for going against EGS?

I'm not entirely sure what are you trying to achieve here mate? Concerns about the future of PC gaming hardly turn me into misogynistic ass who opens a bottle of champagne every time woman gets harassed. Again, I'm sorry for what happened to her, not sure what else I can do about it.

 

[SRossi]

I'm not entirely sure what are you trying to achieve here mate? Concerns about the future of PC gaming hardly turn me into misogynistic ass who opens a bottle of champagne every time woman gets harassed. Again, I'm sorry for what happened to her, not sure what else I can do about it.

but why are you sorry? and the few others here that expressed their worry about what happened? they just reaped what they sowed. why do I have to feel sorry about something I had nothing to do with and because of that something i had nothing to do with I can't feel angry about the shit the devs did? (btw, i still haven't seen proof; lash, maybe one of your friend did make a screencap? just send it to me pls!)

and to be clear: those devs are fuckwits! and i say that to their faces. because that's what they are. fuckwits.

 

[Rosenkrantz]

but why are you sorry? and the few others here that expressed their worry about what happened? they just reaped what they sowed. why do I have to feel sorry about something I had nothing to do with and because of that something i had nothing to do with I can't feel angry about the shit the devs did? (btw, i still haven't seen proof; lash, maybe one of your friend did make a screencap? just send it to me pls!)

and to be clear: those devs are fuckwits! and i say that to their faces. because that's what they are. fuckwits.

I just don't think anyone deserves to be dogpiled and harassed for this kind of stuff, even tho they did everything in their power to instigate the conflict. She also tried to be more polite than her husband, so there's that too.

 

[Eferis]

I feel different about this, I’m not sorry (or happy) for what happened to her specifically and I would be lying if I said otherwise, the big problem is that the same harassment that she experienced is just part of the bigger problem that is how usually normal functioning people behave when they’re on the Internet and how they push each other to do even worse(and the tone of the blog post was also representative of that, regardless of how the press is now downplaying that).

I’m personally against that behavior, no matter how it’s manifested or who is experiencing its effects, you can’t really be selective. You’re either for that or against that, even if it’s affecting someone you don’t like.

 

[SRossi]

I just don't think anyone deserves to be dogpiled and harassed for this kind of stuff, even tho they did everything in their power to instigate the conflict. She also tried to be more polite than her husband, so there's that too.

i can't quite wrap my head around this.
so let's say you have a colleague you where always quite friendly with but not friends. One day, he quits because he found a new job that's paying a lot of money. The day he quits he insults all of his colleagues including you, what lowlifes you are with this shitty low pay job. Some of you are shrugging and keep on working, some of you are saying "fuck of fuckwit" and 2 of your are saying "drop dead asshole".
and now you feel sorry for him/her?

 

[C-Dub]

There’s only one way to act in this situation.

1) Don’t harass people.
2) Don’t justify harassment.
3) Continue to talk about EGS critically.

This isn’t hard guys. Regardless of whether there was a causal link between the condescending blog post and the harassment the developers got, the reality is the harassment shouldn’t have happened full stop. There’s taking the high road, stooping to their level and racing to the bottom, and the fringe raced to the bottom in the most monumentally shitty way. No one deserved what the Ooblets developers got.

A lot of people are happy to stoop to their level, and that’s not been healthy for anyone here. Take the high road instead.

And drop the conspiracy stuff too, because it’s looking ridiculous. Epic is good at throwing its cash around, not telling developers to write crappy blogposts, forging Discord chat images and weaponising right wing manbabies to create a positive PR scenario for itself.

The simple truth is this is an own goal by idiots who probably care less about EGS and what its doing to the PC platform and more that an indie developer affronted them in their blog post. Epic just saw an opportunity for good PR and jumped on it.

 

[Ge0force]

i can't quite wrap my head around this.
so let's say you have a colleague you where always quite friendly with but not friends. One day, he quits because he found a new job that's paying a lot of money. The day he quits he insults all of his colleagues including you, what lowlifes you are with this shitty low pay job. Some of you are shrugging and keep on working, some of you are saying "fuck of fuckwit" and 2 of your are saying "drop dead asshole".
and now you feel sorry for him/her?

Hold your horses. These devs have been mocking at peoples concerns and they've played the "FU got mine" song. But they haven't been harassing or threatening anyone. They deserved to be criticized for their behavior, but not to be harassed or getting dead threats.

 

[Trisolarian]

i can't quite wrap my head around this.
so let's say you have a colleague you where always quite friendly with but not friends. One day, he quits because he found a new job that's paying a lot of money. The day he quits he insults all of his colleagues including you, what lowlifes you are with this shitty low pay job. Some of you are shrugging and keep on working, some of you are saying "fuck of fuckwit" and 2 of your are saying "drop dead asshole".
and now you feel sorry for him/her?

Would that ex co worker deserve to be paraded through the street and screamed at by a thousand people? Or be put on complete blast to on all of social media by every single person and have themselves trending on twitter?

Proportional. Response.

Is it that hard to have empathy for people who make a mistake?

 

[Eferis]

i can't quite wrap my head around this.
so let's say you have a colleague you where always quite friendly with but not friends. One day, he quits because he found a new job that's paying a lot of money. The day he quits he insults all of his colleagues including you, what lowlifes you are with this shitty low pay job. Some of you are shrugging and keep on working, some of you are saying "fuck of fuckwit" and 2 of your are saying "drop dead asshole".
and now you feel sorry for him/her?

No, I would if a crowd of strangers started harassing that particular colleague of mine for days even on stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with its original offensive behavior.

If everyone simply said "well fuck you too" to that blog post and call it a day I think it would've been an understandable and justifiable reaction to it, but that's not what's happening now and that's problematic, even if it's affecting two fuckwits (and I said the same even when it affected worse fuckwits, that behavior on the Internet is wrong and it either doesn't change a thing or it makes it worse).

 

[SRossi]

i didn't say they threatened someone. I said they insulted someone. and yeah, i don't have a problem to stoop to their level.
oh no, he said the harassment word! better distance myself from everything!

they paraded their selves with the blogpost, no need from someone to do it for them btw.
there is a atmosphere of fear and anxiety that's ridiculous. oh no don't say that, that's harassment and women hating, gamergating and parading! you horrible human. SHAME! SHAME!

 

[Arsene]

i can't quite wrap my head around this.
so let's say you have a colleague you where always quite friendly with but not friends. One day, he quits because he found a new job that's paying a lot of money. The day he quits he insults all of his colleagues including you, what lowlifes you are with this shitty low pay job. Some of you are shrugging and keep on working, some of you are saying "fuck of fuckwit" and 2 of your are saying "drop dead asshole".
and now you feel sorry for him/her?

If said person was getting death threats, Yes I would feel sorry.

I dropped out of college because of a death threat, I wouldnt wish that shit on anyone. Mentally ruined me for months.

 

[Ge0force]

I dropped out of college because of a death threat, I wouldnt wish that shit on anyone. Mentally ruined me for months.

I'm really sorry to hear this. This shouldn't happen to anyone

 

[Nyarlathotep]

There’s only one way to act in this situation.

1) Don’t harass people.
2) Don’t justify harassment.
3) Continue to talk about EGS critically.

The problem is that some people will deem unsolicited criticism as harassment.

A lot of people don't want to hear people telling them about a mistake they have made.
They also don't want to hear that same sentiment from a lot of people concurrently, or not to double down on their mistake to spite their critics.
That doesn't necessarily equate to being harassed, and pointing out the circumstances that have led to that criticism doesn't necessarily equate to victim blaming.

 

[Trisolarian]

The problem is that some people will deem unsolicited criticism as harassment.

A lot of people don't want to hear people telling them about a mistake they have made.
They also don't want to hear that same sentiment from a lot of people concurrently, or not to double down on their mistake to spite their critics.
That doesn't necessarily equate to being harassed, and pointing out the circumstances that have led to that criticism doesn't necessarily equate to victim blaming.

You are correct, people don't want to hear about the mistake they made and no one likes unsolicited criticism.

But, we can all see the way the wind is blowing and being the 1000th person to get their say, your are not trying to be part of a discussion, you're piling on. Sometimes it isn't that important for you get your two cents in when the other person's already got 100,000 cents.

i didn't say they threatened someone. I said they insulted someone. and yeah, i don't have a problem to stoop to their level.
oh no, he said the harassment word! better distance myself from everything!

they paraded their selves with the blogpost, no need from someone to do it for them btw.
there is a atmosphere of fear and anxiety that's ridiculous. oh no don't say that, that's harassment and women hating, gamergating and parading! you horrible human. SHAME! SHAME!

Read the room.

And to Arsene and crimsonheadGCN I'm really sorry to hear of your experiences. Brutal.

 

[Milena]

I dropped out of college because of a death threat, I wouldnt wish that shit on anyone. Mentally ruined me for months.

Really sorry to hear this, I can't imagine the distress it caused you

Such things should never happen and I wouldn't wish them on anyone.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

If said person was getting death threats, Yes I would feel sorry.

I dropped out of college because of a death threat, I wouldnt wish that shit on anyone. Mentally ruined me for months.

I'm sorry that this has happened to you. I know the feeling since I've received a few death threats since I was doxxed in 2015.

 

[RionaaM]

but why are you sorry? and the few others here that expressed their worry about what happened? they just reaped what they sowed. why do I have to feel sorry about something I had nothing to do with and because of that something i had nothing to do with I can't feel angry about the shit the devs did? (btw, i still haven't seen proof; lash, maybe one of your friend did make a screencap? just send it to me pls!)

and to be clear: those devs are fuckwits! and i say that to their faces. because that's what they are. fuckwits.

You can dislike someone for their actions and yet feel bad when they are harassed and insulted. My disgust for what they said is irrelevant here; harassment is a horrible thing and it's absolutely wrong that they are suffering it. It's not like we're talking about evil politicians who are actively harming countless people here, at the end of the day this is still about video games.

i can't quite wrap my head around this.
so let's say you have a colleague you where always quite friendly with but not friends. One day, he quits because he found a new job that's paying a lot of money. The day he quits he insults all of his colleagues including you, what lowlifes you are with this shitty low pay job. Some of you are shrugging and keep on working, some of you are saying "fuck of fuckwit" and 2 of your are saying "drop dead asshole".
and now you feel sorry for him/her?

I wouldn't wish him to suffer this shit, nope. There's a limit to schadenfreude, and that line is waaaay before getting to harassment and death threats. Of course, this doesn't mean I'll start crying for him either (in your example we still hate each other), but I'm sure it wouldn't make me happy.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

You are correct, people don't want to hear about the mistake they made and no one likes unsolicited criticism.

But, we can all see the way the wind is blowing and being the 1000th person to get their say, your are not trying to be part of a discussion, you're piling on. Sometimes it isn't that important for you get your two cents in when the other person's already got 100,000 cents.



Read the room.

And to Arsene and crimsonheadGCN I'm really sorry to hear of your experiences. Brutal.

Absolutely, but the point is a lot of people don't internet 100%, and if they were interested in this game and just heard about this decision, go to read the announcement regarding it and find a "No true scotsman would care, and if you're a man baby waaaaahing over just another launcher bro you can fuck off tbh" they're not going to go read through a x-page thread on a forum, or a giant ass twitter chain, or find out why the reddit subforums been locked down to get any additional nuance.

They're going to go to the private discord to complain, get insta kicked, then go on twitter and say "you know, what fuck you"

Its because people who are upset with this decision aren't a coordinated group that to the devs its going to feel like a dogpile.
But its a dogpile that spending some extra time crafting their statement to not come across as a passive aggressive "we don't care what you think" to people who want to criticise the decision would have largely avoided.

 

[Trisolarian]

Absolutely, but the point is a lot of people don't internet 100%, and if they were interested in this game and just heard about this decision, go to read the announcement regarding it and find a "No true scotsman would care, and if you're a man baby waaaaahing over just another launcher bro you can fuck off tbh" they're not going to go read through a x-page thread on a forum, or a giant ass twitter chain, or find out why the reddit subforums been locked down to get any additional nuance.
They're going to go to the private discord to complain, get insta kicked, then go on twitter and say "you know, what fuck you"

Its possible but a lot of the people who would be able to go on the private discord, find the twitter account and even be aware of the blogpost and t he game would probably be pretty looped into one or more gaming communities. Or you know, just see them getting ratio'd on twitter.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Its possible but a lot of the people who would be able to go on the private discord, find the twitter account and even be aware of the blogpost and t he game would probably be pretty looped into one or more gaming communities. Or you know, just see them getting ratio'd on twitter.

the online presence for most games isn't even close to 10% of the actual presence, and people are vastly more likely to speak up about something they dislike than to celebrate the status quo.

 

[Trisolarian]

the online presence for most games isn't even close to 10% of the actual presence, and people are vastly more likely to speak up about something they dislike than to celebrate the status quo.

Yes I know. Negative feelings dominate the internet. Again, its clear that they were being hammered and I don't really see how once a person goes through the trouble of contacting the devs that they wouldn't figure that out.

 

[C-Dub]

I ran a large MGS site when I was a teenager and one of the more unhinged loons kept harassing me, to the point that he ordered (with a stolen credit card) sex toys to my house in my name. This was after they had sent me a link to Google maps, pointed to my house.

All because I had the temerity to do something they didn't like. I can't even remember what it was, but it probably involved banning them from the forums or being critical of The Twin Snakes (they were a Nintendo fan).

I was 15 years old and terrified.

Harassment sucks. Don't do it, and don't excuse it. I think it's fair to acknowledge a causal link, but that in no way justifies the onslaught they received.

And in terms of talking about EGS, there's ways to talk about it without talking at people about it. I've written controversial things before and had people talking at me on social media, and it's like an avalanche of people who don't even see you as a fully formed human telling you why you're wrong in 140 characters or less. It's stressful and upsetting and becomes a dozen or so points said at you hundreds of times.

So just rise above that shite and just talk about it soapbox style. Arguing with developers or Sweeney on Twitter is counterproductive and at best a couple of hundred of the same people will see it. Writing an article, posting on a public forum, or making a Tweet chain about the EGS is a far better way of being heard rather than telling a developer they acted like a jerk.

This is as much a reminder to myself as anything, because I've stooped to Sweeney's level a number of times in terms of debating with him on Twitter. It's not worth it.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Yes I know. Negative feelings dominate the internet. Again, its clear that they were being hammered and I don't really see how once a person goes through the trouble of contacting the devs that they wouldn't figure that out.

I mean, the less 'plugged in' someone is to internet culture, the more likely it is that they're not going to understand they're part of a dogpile, but thats kind of a tangential issue to differentiating between making an unpopular or controversial decision or statement and getting the type of heat you should expect from doing that versus online shitlord harrassment

 

[Trisolarian]

I mean, the less 'plugged in' someone is to internet culture, the more likely it is that they're not going to understand they're part of a dogpile, but thats kind of a tangential issue to differentiating between making an unpopular or controversial decision or statement and getting the type of heat you should expect from doing that versus online shitlord harrassment

I don't think anyone expects to get the heat that the internet mob can bring.

 

[SRossi]

Can we rename the thread to "harassment is bad, stupid manchild! Tim and friends know what's best for you so shut up already!"?

Because we are at that point. Even here. Because a handful of people apparently harassed someone (after they got insulted) and even less made apparently death threats (and because you have to explicitly say that you don't think it's cool, here you go: it's not cool) (personally, btw, haven't seen neither but apparently both happened) you can't express yourself like you feel towards the community nor the ones who are responsible for the current situation.

Congrats to all, you played yourself, Tim won.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I don't think anyone expects to get the heat that the internet mob can bring.

you're right, in volume, strength and disproportionality.
But the ooblet devs really seem to have been spectacularly naive about some pretty fundamental business aspects that they seem to have just glossed over with "it'll be fine", and their response to the backlash suggests that maybe they should have researched things a little more or spoken to others before making that commitment.

e:
Like, a few months back, their publisher was Double Fine, who know a little bit about fan backlash and breaking implicit promises.

 

[C-Dub]

Can we rename the thread to "harassment is bad, stupid manchild! Tim and friends know what's best for you so shut up already!"?

How do you get that from the things people are saying?

A bit of self-reflection about how one acts goes a long way. Bad things happened and the ground has shifted beneath our feet. It’s an opportunity to think about whether we could’ve been better about all of this and acting upon it.

That doesn’t mean capitulating to anyone. It means making our points differently and more effectively, and not giving the less honest people carte blanche to paint us as GamerGaters.

 

[SRossi]

How do you get that from the things people are saying?

A bit of self-reflection about how one acts goes a long way. Bad things happened and the ground has shifted beneath our feet. It’s an opportunity to think about whether we could’ve been better about all of this and acting upon it.

That doesn’t mean capitulating to anyone. It means making our points differently and more effectively, and not giving the less honest people carte blanche to paint us as GamerGaters.

You are all afraid. Those fuckwits deserved what they got. It's called backlash. The next one will get the same.

 

[Oheao]

Can we rename the thread to "harassment is bad, stupid manchild! Tim and friends know what's best for you so shut up already!"?

Because we are at that point. Even here. Because a handful of people apparently harassed someone (after they got insulted) and even less made apparently death threats (and because you have to explicitly say that you don't think it's cool, here you go: it's not cool) (personally, btw, haven't seen neither but apparently both happened) you can't express yourself like you feel towards the community nor the ones who are responsible for the current situation.

Congrats to all, you played yourself, Tim won.

You are all afraid. Those fuckwits deserved what they got. It's called backlash. The next one will get the same.

Are you a parody? Or are you being serious? I don't think you realize just how severe harassment can get. Unless you think that getting violent threats is justified because they had the nerve to tell us that there are more important things than video games.

 

[z1ggy]

Hats off Alexandros , wish i had your patience.

 

[derFeef]

Can we rename the thread to "harassment is bad, stupid manchild! Tim and friends know what's best for you so shut up already!"?

Because we are at that point. Even here. Because a handful of people apparently harassed someone (after they got insulted) and even less made apparently death threats (and because you have to explicitly say that you don't think it's cool, here you go: it's not cool) (personally, btw, haven't seen neither but apparently both happened) you can't express yourself like you feel towards the community nor the ones who are responsible for the current situation.

Congrats to all, you played yourself, Tim won.

The other day I thought you would be just targeting me because I spoke up against harrasment towards the devs. But seems like you are really only out for blood or something. Take a step back and think a bit what this is all about. Maybe personal life is more important sometimes and everything that makes private life of a person worse should not be accepted.

 

[Trisolarian]

you're right, in volume, strength and disproportionality.
But the ooblet devs really seem to have been spectacularly naive about some pretty fundamental business aspects that they seem to have just glossed over with "it'll be fine", and their response to the backlash suggests that maybe they should have researched things a little more or spoken to others before making that commitment.

e:
Like, a few months back, their publisher was Double Fine, who know a little bit about fan backlash and breaking implicit promises.

First time to devs compared to studio headed up by Tim Schafer... mistakes happen. Just because the ooblets devs made mistakes doesn't mean that the doctrine of "unlimited retaliation" is warranted. They made mistakes, oh yes. The payment for the mistake wasn't in proportion of the crime.

 

[Alextended]

Why are you speaking for them, I'm sure they don't think they made any kind of mistake. I didn't see someone apologize for a mistake, did you? And what is this payment you think they gave for it? Did they lose money? Sleep? Did they quit their game making endeavor and lose Epic's money because of all the pressure? Did it ruin their marriage or life? They got emails and people spammed their discord. Wow. Life altering, I'll set up a charity fund for them. It barely had time to happen and they were already using it for PR, lol. Sure, it serves the idiots who did that stuff to have it backfire but I'm not gonna fall for that crap myself.

 

[Ge0force]

You are all afraid. Those fuckwits deserved what they got. It's called backlash. The next one will get the same.

The Ooblets devs definitely deserved to be criticized. But they didn't deserve to be harassed or getting death threads.

And no, I'm not softening up on my stance against Epic's moneyhats. What I just wrote is merely common sense to me.

 

[Trisolarian]

Why are you speaking for them, I'm sure they don't think they made any kind of mistake. I didn't see someone apologize for a mistake, did you? And what his this payment you think they gave for it? Did they lose money? Did they quit their game making endeavors because of all the psychological pressure? Did it ruin their marriage or life? They got emails and people spammed their discord. Wow. Life altering, I'll set up a charity fund for them.

So its ok then that they were afraid, upset and suffered through threats? Or are your feelings at "gamers" being targeted and anger at the devs more important?

 

[Deleted member 113]

Please, let's not start arguing among ourselves.

I doubt anyone is here agrees, or condones harassing the developers, or making death threats against them, no matter how upset some of us are with them.

I would be sad if, on top of all the damage Epic has done to the PC platform in such a small amount of time, they would manage to get users (who agree in their disapproval of their practices) to start arguing with one another, and further fraction the userbase.

Again, I wish that, in response to some of the provocations being done (yes, because I do think Epic, and some developers, and using all this as a means of promotion of the EGS and their games, with one of Tim's recent tweets a clear example of that), PC gamers could just ignore them, disregard their products, and simply play something else, and have fun with other games, instead of going overboard, resorting to insulting and making threats, or even argue among ourselves.

So much time is wasted giving these people free publicity. They clearly have shown they have no respect for you, so don't give them your time, nor your money.

It's been almost a week since these people made their announcement. Why are we still giving them free publicity?

 

[Alextended]

So its ok then that they were afraid, upset and suffered through threats? Or are your feelings at "gamers" being targeted and anger at the devs more important?

What feelings are you referring to exactly? How does this answer anything I asked/said? And why would I think they were afraid and suffering when I just saw them nonstop trolling everyone remotely displeased with their statements on twitter until the article where they played the victim showed up?

 

[Trisolarian]

What feelings are you referring to exactly? How does this answer anything I said? And why would I think they were afraid and suffering when I just saw them nonstop trolling on twitter until the article where they played the victim showed up?

So in the interview they have they were lying? Ok.

I'm done with this discussion and anyone who wants to defend being dragged through the mud and recieving threats. Thnx.

 

[Alextended]

Who defended that?

If you can't discuss and resort to accusing other people of "feelings" and translating their posts into somehow defending whatever, sure, stop (being a jerk). Thx.

 

[Oheao]

Please, let's not start arguing among ourselves.

I doubt anyone is here agrees, or condones harassing the developers, or making death threats against them, no matter how upset some of us are with them.

I would be sad if, on top of all the damage Epic has done to the PC platform in such a small amount of time, they would manage to get users (who agree in their disapproval of their practices) to start arguing with one another, and further fraction the userbase.

Again, I wish that, in response to some of the provocations being done (yes, because I do think Epic, and some developers, and using all this as a means of promotion of the EGS and their games, with one of Tim's recent tweets a clear example of that), PC gamers could just ignore them, disregard their products, and simply play something else, and have fun with other games, instead of going overboard, resorting to insulting and making threats, or even argue among ourselves.

So much time is wasted giving these people free publicity. They clearly have shown they have no respect for you, so don't give them your time, nor your money.

It's been almost a week since these people made their announcement. Why are we still giving them free publicity?

We have two people who are essentially fine with what happened to them, Alextended and SRossi, it needs to be discussed because they are both trying to justify what happened to them, made clear by these two posts:

You are all afraid. Those fuckwits deserved what they got. It's called backlash. The next one will get the same.

Why are you speaking for them, I'm sure they don't think they made any kind of mistake. I didn't see someone apologize for a mistake, did you? And what is this payment you think they gave for it? Did they lose money? Sleep? Did they quit their game making endeavor and lose Epic's money because of all the pressure? Did it ruin their marriage or life? They got emails and people spammed their discord. Wow. Life altering, I'll set up a charity fund for them. It barely had time to happen and they were already using it for PR, lol. Sure, it serves the idiots who did that stuff to have it backfire but I'm not gonna fall for that crap myself.

 

[Alextended]

I mean, what you quote of me doesn't justify anything like what you claim (even calls the people who did that stuff idiots) and is nothing like SRossi's post in any way, shape or form but sure, you do you. Goes back to that lumping together I mentioned before I suppose, Epic does it, Ooblets dev does it, you do it.

Hey, you play games right? Maybe you're angry gamers attacking me, hmm, how to profit from that....

 

[fantomena]

Anyone who defends the death treats and harassment the devs are getting are assholes.

 

[Trisolarian]

Who defended that?

If you can't discuss and resort to accusing other people of "feelings" and translating their posts into somehow defending whatever, sure, stop (being a jerk). Thx.

Saying "play the victim" is brushing aside things like this faked screenshot


Thousands of hateful and threatening messages

Ooblets studio ‘devastated by hateful reaction’ to Epic Games exclusivity deal | VGC

Glumberland reportedly received 1,000s of “threatening messages”…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Epic's own PR department releasing a statement.

Epic’s Statement on Misinformation & Abuse

Epic’s Statement on Misinformation & Abuse

www.epicgames.com

So its all a cynical ploy or is there some merit in feeling the need to speak out against harassment.

 

[lashman]

There’s only one way to act in this situation.

1) Don’t harass people.
2) Don’t justify harassment.
3) Continue to talk about EGS critically.

This isn’t hard guys. Regardless of whether there was a causal link between the condescending blog post and the harassment the developers got, the reality is the harassment shouldn’t have happened full stop. There’s taking the high road, stooping to their level and racing to the bottom, and the fringe raced to the bottom in the most monumentally shitty way. No one deserved what the Ooblets developers got.

A lot of people are happy to stoop to their level, and that’s not been healthy for anyone here. Take the high road instead.

And drop the conspiracy stuff too, because it’s looking ridiculous. Epic is good at throwing its cash around, not telling developers to write crappy blogposts, forging Discord chat images and weaponising right wing manbabies to create a positive PR scenario for itself.

The simple truth is this is an own goal by idiots who probably care less about EGS and what its doing to the PC platform and more that an indie developer affronted them in their blog post. Epic just saw an opportunity for good PR and jumped on it.

I ran a large MGS site when I was a teenager and one of the more unhinged loons kept harassing me, to the point that he ordered (with a stolen credit card) sex toys to my house in my name. This was after they had sent me a link to Google maps, pointed to my house.

All because I had the temerity to do something they didn't like. I can't even remember what it was, but it probably involved banning them from the forums or being critical of The Twin Snakes (they were a Nintendo fan).

I was 15 years old and terrified.

Harassment sucks. Don't do it, and don't excuse it. I think it's fair to acknowledge a causal link, but that in no way justifies the onslaught they received.

And in terms of talking about EGS, there's ways to talk about it without talking at people about it. I've written controversial things before and had people talking at me on social media, and it's like an avalanche of people who don't even see you as a fully formed human telling you why you're wrong in 140 characters or less. It's stressful and upsetting and becomes a dozen or so points said at you hundreds of times.

So just rise above that shite and just talk about it soapbox style. Arguing with developers or Sweeney on Twitter is counterproductive and at best a couple of hundred of the same people will see it. Writing an article, posting on a public forum, or making a Tweet chain about the EGS is a far better way of being heard rather than telling a developer they acted like a jerk.

This is as much a reminder to myself as anything, because I've stooped to Sweeney's level a number of times in terms of debating with him on Twitter. It's not worth it.

i pretty much 100% agree with everything here

also - sorry you had to go through that stuff, man must've been awful

---

and for some people - i'll just leave this here:

Empathy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kyougar]

How do you get that from the things people are saying?

A bit of self-reflection about how one acts goes a long way. Bad things happened and the ground has shifted beneath our feet. It’s an opportunity to think about whether we could’ve been better about all of this and acting upon it.

That doesn’t mean capitulating to anyone. It means making our points differently and more effectively, and not giving the less honest people carte blanche to paint us as GamerGaters.

So what statement, that you made in the past regarding EGS, is now unacceptable in your self-reflected eyes? And how would you word it differently?

 

[ISee]

Any Dev using and defending the 4chan REEEEE meme that is making fun of authistic people is an asshole.


Still no idea why we are concentrating on them being harassed. Should it be done? No, but this has been discussed. Can we bring the spotlight back on those terrible developer people?

 

[SRossi]

This thread is now a parody.

 

[Kyougar]

Saying "play the victim" is brushing aside things like this faked screenshot


Thousands of hateful and threatening messages

Ooblets studio ‘devastated by hateful reaction’ to Epic Games exclusivity deal | VGC

Glumberland reportedly received 1,000s of “threatening messages”…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Epic's own PR department releasing a statement.

Epic’s Statement on Misinformation & Abuse

Epic’s Statement on Misinformation & Abuse

www.epicgames.com

So its all a cynical ploy or is there some merit in feeling the need to speak out against harassment.

Quick question, what is your reaction to the tweet where the Ooblet devs liked a tweet mocking Autistic people?

 

[Alextended]

Some of you are acting like people from here went to town with threats. I guarantee most only discussed the topic here, maybe in another forum/site also and that was the end of the time spent on this. Saying stuff like "we" need to do better helps them lump everyone together. I don't need to do better. I've criticized their decisions, I've criticized Epic's business direction, the media promoting them, the devs falling for/also promoting it, I've formed arguments that I think are pretty well thought out (and I've gotten tired of repeating them and end up not even discussing most of the time because it falls on deaf ears brushing it all aside outside small circles like ours that don't profit off of Epic). Nowhere did I defend or excuse the people doing that stuff no matter how many times some can claim I did after refusing to respond to anything I actually said outside somehow translating it into things it wasn't. I expect Epic and whatever dev to lump everyone they deem "against" them together with the extreme cases like they have been doing to avoid debate but I didn't expect people here to do it. Oh well.