Community MetaRPG | Hurting. Longing. Dancing to disco music.

Durante

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Oct 21, 2018
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I probably have Eye of the Beholder 2 and FF12 on the next up list.

Unfortunately any free time I have for gaming is usually spent on Monster Hunter. :surrenderblob:
I've been playing FF12 recently (for the first time since playing it on the original PS2 version at its launch, so I had forgotten most everything about it).

It's amazing how un-JRPG it is for such an emblematic Japanese RPG franchise. Back when I still had the energy to craft and discuss sub-genre categorization mechanisms I came up with a few of them for "JRPG" -- obviously a lot of games we'd still consider JRPGs each disregards a few of them, but FF12 goes a lot further.
Separate traversible map? No.
Separate battle screen? No.
Turn-based? No.
Random encounters? No.
Characters with fixed per-character skill sets / progression? No.

It does have a lot of side quests chains instead, quite WRPG-style. And gambits, I wish they'd have built on those a lot more.

I recently played Battle Chasers: Nightwar, and by pretty much any objective metric other than where it was made I'd argue that is much more of a JRPG than FF12 is.
 
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Gizmo

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I've been playing FF12 recently (for the first time since playing it on the original PS2 version at its launch, so I had forgotten most everything about it).

It's amazing how un-JRPG it is for such an emblematic Japanese RPG franchise. Back when I still had the energy to craft and discuss sub-genre categorization mechanisms I came up with a few of them for "JRPG" -- obviously a lot of games we'd still consider JRPGs each disregards a few of them, but FF12 goes a lot further.
Separate traversible map? No.
Separate battle screen? No.
Turn-based? No.
Random encounters? No.
Characters with fixed per-character skill sets / progression? No.

It does have a lot of side quests chains instead, quite WRPG-style. And gambits, I wish they'd have built on those a lot more.

I recently played Battle Chasers: Nightwar, and by pretty much any objective metric other than where it was made I'd argue that is much more of a JRPG than FF12 is.

I've only played about 4-5 hours, but it does seem that it borrowed a good deal from FF11, to the point it feels like a single-player version of it.
 
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QFNS

Plays too many card games
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I've been playing FF12 recently (for the first time since playing it on the original PS2 version at its launch, so I had forgotten most everything about it).

It's amazing how un-JRPG it is for such an emblematic Japanese RPG franchise. Back when I still had the energy to craft and discuss sub-genre categorization mechanisms I came up with a few of them for "JRPG" -- obviously a lot of games we'd still consider JRPGs each disregards a few of them, but FF12 goes a lot further.
Separate traversible map? No.
Separate battle screen? No.
Turn-based? No.
Random encounters? No.
Characters with fixed per-character skill sets / progression? No.

It does have a lot of side quests chains instead, quite WRPG-style. And gambits, I wish they'd have built on those a lot more.

I recently played Battle Chasers: Nightwar, and by pretty much any objective metric other than where it was made I'd argue that is much more of a JRPG than FF12 is.
I have tried to replay FF12 a bunch of times but always end up falling off at around the same point. The story is so meandering and despite the main thrust being good (and well written!) I get bored of all the insane amount of side content that is very much unnecessary and then get bored of the game.

The Zodiac version maybe even made it worse! By adding all the extra jobs, extra espers, and so forth I just get build paralysis and then stop playing lol.
 

BlueOdin

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In Castlevania when the Castlevania walks up to Dracula and Dracula says his famous line: "What's a JRPG? A miserable pile of genres."

It's kind of amazing how this one term describes a wide variety of games when most of their commonality is the country they were made in. Is the term even of any use if "Nier: Automate" and "Dragon Quest" fall under it? Iirc games like Dragon Quest are called "menu-" or "command-based" in Japan so it is kind of surprising that weebs are not taking that over if they are apparently so obsessed with Japanese culture. But on the other hand it would also threw in Dragon Quest with something like Kingdom Hearts so there might be even further definition needed.

Anyway, playing more Gothic 2 and I am slowly finding tricks to fight human enemies. Still annoying when they crit you out of the blue though. Also said it at other places but it is refreshing to play a rpg which doesn't have side characters available to fuck and which are 50 shades of Whedon-quirky
 
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Kvik

Crossbell City Councillor
Dec 6, 2018
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Downunder.
My Trails from Zero impressions, if anyone care to read. A good amount of spoilers is in there, though.


I'm playing VTMB currently. The game might looks unattractive on some cases, but with a few mods and ReShade shaders, it's still thick with atmosphere (as if it haven't already)
 

Gizmo

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I'm also planning on playing through Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines again sometime this year. It doesn't really matter how many times I play it, the world-building just lures you in.
I love the world, characters and plot - but still can never get over the terrible combat and nausea that game induces on me. It's mostly the sewers in hindsight, and that boss battle at the end.
 
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Gizmo

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I totally forgot the Realms Beyond combat beta launched. It looks to be shaping up well.

Sawyer even streamed some.

 
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Taborcarn

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I totally forgot the Realms Beyond combat beta launched. It looks to be shaping up well.

Sawyer even streamed some.


This is my first hearing of it, but I'm getting an NWN vibe just from the angular dungeon design. Although the combat itself look very different.
 
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BlueOdin

No regrets only Drip now
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It is a real pain in the ass to get Gothic 3 to run in German and with voice over. I am currently trying the Steam version with all community patches. Installed it several times through Steam but it was always in English and missing the voice over. So now I bought the GOG version since it is on sale and hope that works. Otherwise I might skip and jump straight to Risen

Edit: Okay, GOG version works
 
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Kvik

Crossbell City Councillor
Dec 6, 2018
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Downunder.
I finished my playthrough of VTMB over the weekend. Back then I made a Toreador with ranged weapon build. For this playthrough I made a Ventrue with melee/domination build. Gotta say, 5 pips Domination is needlessly powerful, lol (against human enemies, at least). Still enjoying the story a lot, but the final boss fight is still as annoying as I can remember. I didn't put too many points into Dodge so the lesser vampires kind of hurting my character a lot in the final phase, but luckily for the final 1/8 of the boss' health bar he actually clipping through the floor and can't get up again so I count that as a win.

I'm looking forward to VTMB2, obviously. Hopefully it won't get delayed by the way things are going.

I'm still on Gothic-themed games bent, so I'm playing Shadow Hearts right now. One thing I notice about picking up this game again after 10+ years is that the localisation seems rather decent for its time. Also, I noticed the battle cries seems kind of a mix between English and Japanese voiceovers, lol. Anyway, it runs pretty well on PCSX2 so I'll continue on.
 
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BlueOdin

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After the initial install problems and learning that the combat system is not at all like in 2 I am having a good time. Sure it is real janky, stutters and some other stuff that irks me but as a complete package I enjoy it a lot so far.

Though that might be also owed to my low expectations going in.
 

BlueOdin

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Gothic 3 is kinda getting to me. I guess part of it is that I played like 22 hours in 4 days because what else can I do? But the other thing is the design which would be good if not for the fact that it repeats itself. It takes the prove your worth to the three factions in the game before you can join them. Only in this you have to prove your worth to every single town you come to. And it is often a straight forward quest design with go to kill or pick something up. There are interesting overlaps that one character wants you to kill someone who is affiliated with the other faction in the area (so far orcs x rebels or assassin's x nomads) and you might need that person to gain trust in a camp or town. But mostly it is rather simple.

I want to give the game kudo for being as ambitious as they were and trying to do their formula on a large scale and in some towns it works pretty well. But at the same time where Gothic 1 and 2 were one microcosm Gothic 3 is a game of many microcosms which know of the existence of the other microcosms but not much more.

At the same time I came to the conclusion that Gothic 3 crawled so Elex could run because I see Elex doing good on a lot of stuff that Gothic 3 tried to do
 

Gizmo

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Gothic 3 is kinda getting to me. I guess part of it is that I played like 22 hours in 4 days because what else can I do? But the other thing is the design which would be good if not for the fact that it repeats itself. It takes the prove your worth to the three factions in the game before you can join them. Only in this you have to prove your worth to every single town you come to. And it is often a straight forward quest design with go to kill or pick something up. There are interesting overlaps that one character wants you to kill someone who is affiliated with the other faction in the area (so far orcs x rebels or assassin's x nomads) and you might need that person to gain trust in a camp or town. But mostly it is rather simple.

I want to give the game kudo for being as ambitious as they were and trying to do their formula on a large scale and in some towns it works pretty well. But at the same time where Gothic 1 and 2 were one microcosm Gothic 3 is a game of many microcosms which know of the existence of the other microcosms but not much more.

At the same time I came to the conclusion that Gothic 3 crawled so Elex could run because I see Elex doing good on a lot of stuff that Gothic 3 tried to do
I hate your new avatar.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
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Some time ago I played through Oninaki, the 3rd game of Tokyo RPG Factory. It's the first of their games I played and I'm aware that their reputation is... one of mediocrity, more or less.
That said, I actually had a lot of fun playing Oninaki, but it is pretty... uneven? imbalanced? Not in terms of difficulty, but rather in the amount of content variety it has.
During the game you get 10 different Daemons (think classes you can switch to on the fly). They all have entirely different skill trees (which are pretty big) and playstyles. At first you might think "whoa, that's pretty great, so much variety". And in a sense that is true. I'd even say it has so much variety that it does not have enough content to support it!

During my playthrough I've only maxed 1 Daemon, got 2 (the first two you get) to a fairly high level, 2 others got a few levels and the remaining half(!) I basically haven't even touched.
Because there is no real need. Leveling one Daemon whose playstyle you enjoy is more than enough to get through the game even on the highest difficulty. Additionally, every new Daemon you get feels terrible to play with at the beginning. This is because the game insists on having passive skills that make the controls less clunky (animation cancelling for various situations) and attack speed is bound to the rank of a Daemon (which automatically increases by spending skill points).
So basically you choose a Daemon, get through the clunky and slow stretch until it feels great, and then you find a new one who might also have a fun play style, but until you level it to a point where it starts being fun and it would be clunky and weaker and I asked myself "what's the point?".
Since there isn't really any meaningful side content (there's a few extremely basic optional quests that probably take less than a minute to complete each) and only an extremely basic "global" progression (aka independent MC level, but those only automaticall increase basic health and attack/defense) and the equipment system is also very forgettable, you basically have to grind for the sake of grinding if you want to experience most of the games combat variety.

It's unfortunate, because it is fun at its core but at the same time it's a lot of wasted potential and it could have easily been much better.




On the WRPG front I've just started Enderal (finally) and after spening like 2-3 hours on character creation I played through the intro section (up until you get out of the valley and find Jespar, which feels like is the point where it opens up) and I love it.
Exploration is rewarding, story so far very intriguing and well staged, good dialogues and progression already looks very promising.
I'll probably go the way of the stealthy archer again, but other talent trees look very intriguing too.
 

BlueOdin

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Finished Gothic 3. Wrote some of my thoughts here: RPG Community |OT| Take the Epoch to a New Era

TL;DR: It is flawed, a departure from the other entries, some things work well, some don't. I liked it overall

On the WRPG front I've just started Enderal (finally) and after spening like 2-3 hours on character creation I played through the intro section (up until you get out of the valley and find Jespar, which feels like is the point where it opens up) and I love it.
Exploration is rewarding, story so far very intriguing and well staged, good dialogues and progression already looks very promising.
I'll probably go the way of the stealthy archer again, but other talent trees look very intriguing too.
Nice. Downloaded it recently and want to start it soon(ish). A friend was pretty excited for it.

Something arrived in the mail. A companion, a friend, a horrific necktie.

lol

Nice. Where did you get it?
 

Ascheroth

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Nice. Downloaded it recently and want to start it soon(ish). A friend was pretty excited for it.
It is freaking fantastic.
And funnily enough shares some Piranha Bytes DNA, I'd say :D
The world is chock-full of useful and exciting loot and they even have learning points - when you level up you get 1 memory point you can spend on your talent trees and a bunch of skill + handicraft (skill is combat/magic stuff and handicraft is crafting + thief stuff) points. You then need to find or buy skill books to transform those points into actually getting stronger. Which needless to say is quite a bit of money sink, so it also prevents you from just hoarding ridonculous amounts of money.

I've made it to the first town. The journey was pretty brutal tbh. The way of the stealthy archer is hard. I have mostly only managed to proceed by exploiting the AI (stealth shot -> hide -> wait until enemy stops searching -> repeat) or getting them stuck and shooting them. Actually staying hidden until you can shoot someone didn't really work out either most of the time, so usually I found myself to get a shot in and then switch to magic or melee and do the rest. Archery felt pretty weak in comparison so I wondered if I made a mistake and should have chosen something else.

Then I found a spell for summoning a spectral wolf and decided to use it on a whim in one battle and suddenly things are going much better. I still try to get a sneak attack in but otherwise summon my ghost wolf to keep the enemy busy while continuing to prick them with pointy arrows.
I also happened to find 2 parts of a light armor set that increases max mana and mana regen, which has great synergy with that style :blob_hype:

That made me rethink my approach and I'm now convinced I definitely need to put some memory points into some summoning talents. There's either the Entropy shool which is the regular summoning magic (and where my wolfy friend is from), or Phasmalism which has an entire tree on its own. I'm going with Phasmalism, since it sounds more unique (you can find souls in the world, bind them to an amulet and summon them) and because I've found a semi-hidden abandoned phasmalist lab in the first town which is now also my base of sorts and I've read online that stealthy archer + phasmalist is one of the special class combinations and the class sounds veeeeery fun (Ghostblade - when you successfully stealth attack an enemy your summoned ghost buddy directly teleports behind the enemy and attacks :blob_hype:)
Though phasmalist is more work until you get even some payoff, since it needs 3 memory points before you can even summon anything, and souls seem to be in specific places - current on my way to get one (you get a quest that points you in the direction immediately after spending a point in the tree).

I was also super giddy when I found a book that gives you a memory point, exploration really pays off!
Books in general are very exciting. Even the non-consumable variant. Not only are they very well written and exciting to read, a lot of them don't seem to be just background lore that is cool but ultimately pointless - most of them have given me a quest and one seemed to be about the backstory of an NPC I've already met and has me wanting to find out more :sweaty-blob: )


tl;dr: I'm gonna be a stealth archer with ghost buddies and I love it


Here's my character:
 
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BlueOdin

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It is freaking fantastic.
And funnily enough shares some Piranha Bytes DNA, I'd say :D
The world is chock-full of useful and exciting loot and they even have learning points - when you level up you get 1 memory point you can spend on your talent trees and a bunch of skill + handicraft (skill is combat/magic stuff and handicraft is crafting + thief stuff) points. You then need to find or buy skill books to transform those points into actually getting stronger. Which needless to say is quite a bit of money sink, so it also prevents you from just hoarding ridonculous amounts of money.

I've made it to the first town. The journey was pretty brutal tbh. The way of the stealthy archer is hard. I have mostly only managed to proceed by exploiting the AI (stealth shot -> hide -> wait until enemy stops searching -> repeat) or getting them stuck and shooting them. Actually staying hidden until you can shoot someone didn't really work out either most of the time, so usually I found myself to get a shot in and then switch to magic or melee and do the rest. Archery felt pretty weak in comparison so I wondered if I made a mistake and should have chosen something else.

Then I found a spell for summoning a spectral wolf and decided to use it on a whim in one battle and suddenly things are going much better. I still try to get a sneak attack in but otherwise summon my ghost wolf to keep the enemy busy while continuing to prick them with pointy arrows.
I also happened to find 2 parts of a light armor set that increases max mana and mana regen, which has great synergy with that style :blob_hype:

That made me rethink my approach and I'm now convinced I definitely need to put some memory points into some summoning talents. There's either the Entropy shool which is the regular summoning magic (and where my wolfy friend is from), or Phasmalism which has an entire tree on its own. I'm going with Phasmalism, since it sounds more unique (you can find souls in the world, bind them to an amulet and summon them) and because I've found a semi-hidden abandoned phasmalist lab in the first town which is now also my base of sorts and I've read online that stealthy archer + phasmalist is one of the special class combinations and the class sounds veeeeery fun (Ghostblade - when you successfully stealth attack an enemy your summoned ghost buddy directly teleports behind the enemy and attacks :blob_hype:)
Though phasmalist is more work until you get even some payoff, since it needs 3 memory points before you can even summon anything, and souls seem to be in specific places - current on my way to get one (you get a quest that points you in the direction immediately after spending a point in the tree).

I was also super giddy when I found a book that gives you a memory point, exploration really pays off!
Books in general are very exciting. Even the non-consumable variant. Not only are they very well written and exciting to read, a lot of them don't seem to be just background lore that is cool but ultimately pointless - most of them have given me a quest and one seemed to be about the backstory of an NPC I've already met and has me wanting to find out more :sweaty-blob: )


tl;dr: I'm gonna be a stealth archer with ghost buddies and I love it


Here's my character:
Your character reminds me of this:



But that all sounds great. Looking forward to the time I will get to it. Will probably play it as a mage because if Gothic 3 had any impact on me than it is that I will play more 3D RPGs as a mage now
 
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Gizmo

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Maybe Arulan or some others can help, genuinely trying to find other games that fit this criteria.

Wizardry 8 and M&M 6-9 are unique in that they're 3D blobbers not tied to grid-based movement. In particular, I really love Wizardry 8 where positioning is extremely important as getting surrounded usually means death.

It seems like these are the only 4 games like this.

:surrenderblob:
 
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Kvik

Crossbell City Councillor
Dec 6, 2018
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Downunder.
I'd like to play a DRPG again real soon. I'm still on the penultimate dungeon of Shadow Hearts, but I think Labyrinth of Refrain: Coven of Dusk is in order.
 

Taborcarn

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I played Grimrock 1, Operenica, and Might & Magic X recently, and I'll be playing Bard's Tale 4, Grimrock 2, and Labyrinth of Refrain in the next couple months. I also just bought Wizards and Warriors in the GoG sale. Love some DRPGs!

(I also bought Risen and Elex also in the GoG sale, after having just finished Gothic and being about 45 hours into Gothic 2. Love some Piranha Bytes open-world euro-jank RPGs too now!)
 

Ascheroth

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Continuing on with Enderal:




I made it into the capital, Ark, and indeed it is big. Already took over half a dozen quests and I haven't even checked out half of it :sweaty-blob:
My stealth archer build is also starting to pay off. I've focused on the Infiltrator (stealth) tree, since it had a perk I wanted (Seducer, which allows you to bypass all rhetoric checks in dialogue regardless of your rhetoric skill and better prices when trading with the opposite sex) instead of the archer/thief tree, so I kept being kinda weak.
After that came 50% stealth damage increase, so I'm doing 3.8xdamage with the bow now and things are changing :dmcblob:
Came across a nice dungeon that had monsters much stronger than me, but I played them to death. Not sure if lucky or deliberate, but the dungeon was quite well suited for stealth attacks and the monsters pretty dumb. Got an awesome dagger out of it and a quest related potion recipe.
I'm now also strong enough to one shot some skellingtons from stealth and explored a tomb that ended up with me finding a better summoning spell that has replaced my ghost wolf - say hello to ghost bear!

I haven't dabbled much in Phasmalism yet, I've put one perk point into the one that lets you see souls (and during my travels actually already collected all 4 Rank 1 souls), but I'd need 2 more points to even use them - 1 in the perk that lets you forge an amulet and bind a soul to it (which also requires different ingredients depending on the soul), and 1 to actually summon it. I figured that was a bit too much to invest for me right now.

I've also started to invest into the crafting skill and crafted a new bow for me and one of the quests I did got me a trusty mount, Whirlwind the donkey.
Next up: more questiong and exploring and growing stronger!





On the JRPG front I've started FF 12 and I'm loving it.
The localization is sooo goood, and so far I like all the characters and political intrigue.
Automating away the combat with the Gambit system and then bust out the turbo mode and watch the game play itself is oddly satisfying too.
 
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MegaApple

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"MetaRPG High Council, lend me your ear"
Thinking of playing the next RPG, what should I try?
  • Fallout 1
  • Planescape Torment
  • Morrowind
Also for Fallout 1 and Morrowind, what are some essential fixes/patches to fix the bugs in those games?
For any game you are suggesting, any starter tips that I should remember?

Thanks!
 

BlueOdin

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Haven't played any game from that list but I will try to start Planescape soon so I will third that.

Started Risen 1 and it seems neat. The dialogue and performances are weaker than Gothic 1 and 2 so far though. Also good that the first character you talk to drops her accent after the first sentence. Otherwise I haven't played much so far but at least the close combat system is not as shit as Gothic 3. But I think I will play as a mage this time, too.
 

Taborcarn

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Yeah I beat Planescape Torment for the first time a couple months ago (after buying the boxed copy when it released and only playing about 2 hours of it then). So that's my recommendation too.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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"MetaRPG High Council, lend me your ear"
Thinking of playing the next RPG, what should I try?
  • Fallout 1
  • Planescape Torment
  • Morrowind


Those are arguably some of the best RPGs of all time. You should play them all eventually.

As for which to play now? I'm going to suggest Fallout, in large part because it's the shortest. The world-building and reactivity are what I'd consider its highlights, and they're some of the best.

This is the commonly-used fix pack, though I've played the last few times without it. The Steam/GOG versions already come with the resolution and widescreen enhancements.
 
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MegaApple

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Seconded on Torment. :dana_bed:
Yeah I beat Planescape Torment for the first time a couple months ago (after buying the boxed copy when it released and only playing about 2 hours of it then). So that's my recommendation too.


Those are arguably some of the best RPGs of all time. You should play them all eventually.

As for which to play now? I'm going to suggest Fallout, in large part because it's the shortest. The world-building and reactivity are what I'd consider its highlights, and they're some of the best.

This is the commonly-used fix pack, though I've played the last few times without it. The Steam/GOG versions already come with the resolution and widescreen enhancements.
Planescape it is, followed by Fallout 1.
Thank you, High Council!
 

BlueOdin

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People often said that Risen 1 is the "real" Gothic 3 but so far I don't know if I can agree with that. I enjoy it but at the same time something feels off. Can't really put it in words. The world design so far feels not that spectacular like Gothic 2, the 360 brown filter is hideous and the dialogues I find for the most part worse than in Gothic 1 and 2. The perk system is also a step down compared to Gothic 3 in that it is much more plain even if the boni in later levels seem interesting. Though not in skills I will put points into
Just did the quests to ascend from a novice to a mage and I am enjoying it. At the same time it also makes me appreciate Gothic 3 in a way. Piranha Bytes tried an experiment where some things worked and some things didn't with it. Risen 1 went back to the tried and true formula but is not as good in execution.

Maybe my opinion will change later on.
 

BlueOdin

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Finished Risen 1

Took me some time to warm up to it but in the end I really enjoyed it. Basically once I was a mage I started to enjoy the game much more. While my main gripes that I listed earlier still stand it is a solid execution of the Gothic 1 and 2 formula without reaching their heights.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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I don't know if there is a VOD link, but the Baldur's Gate III gameplay shown today looked really great.