Community MetaRPG | Hurting. Longing. Dancing to disco music.

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
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To be fair I tried when it released !
But mobs rolled all over me and I was too dumb for the murder mystery :anguished-face:

I have to prioritize Bloodlines and OS.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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Murder mysteries make for great setups.



Even something as simple as the early Morrowind quest in Seyda Neen involving the tax collector I still remember fondly. Admittedly, quest design without markers goes a long way into making even the simplest of tasks more interesting.
 
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BlueOdin

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Thread on Chris Avellone being a sexual predator

Really a bummer for me. Loved much of his work. Kinda knew he was an arrogant asshole but that stuff is rough
 

Swenhir

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I keep wanting to get into D:OS 2's plot but it's really, really hard. My suspension of disbelief is kind of shattered by the near-comical way in which everyone dies horrible deaths, always, Braccus Rex is a single-note joke character that tortures kittens and even the people on your side berate and will clearly backstab you given the slightest opening between your ribs. It's like Age of Decadence, whithout the benefit of amazing tone and writing to justify it.

I'm only barely hanging on because of the combat and the few encounters that make me feel I can make a difference, but I can't help unironically feel like the game was written by a sadist.
 
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Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
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Exactly, there is a very specific kind of tone and writing to Larian and these games. I really fear BG3 having the same feeling.

Please don't put gratuitous goredark into my hopeful D&D :(.
What do you mean (without spoilers) ? I know that the Pratchett vibe in some of Larian past work has been divisive, but I don't remember ever hearing of goredark.
 
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Swenhir

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What do you mean (without spoilers) ? I know that the Pratchett vibe in some of Larian past work has been divisive, but I don't remember ever hearing of goredark.
It's a term that came to mind when I try to summarize the way this game makes me feel. It's so gratuitously gory all the time, attempting to be dark through pure violence without the depth of story nor writing to really do anything with it. It's making me a little miserable to push through it and it's the first time I'm seriously considering dropping a Larian game.
 
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Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
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It's a term that came to mind when I try to summarize the way this game makes me feel. It's so gratuitously gory all the time, attempting to be dark through pure violence without the depth of story nor writing to really do anything with it. It's making me a little miserable to push through it and it's the first time I'm seriously considering dropping a Larian game.
That's a sharp U-turn from early Larian games :dizzy-face:
And yeah, by the limited look we had of it, BG3 doesn't look bright and rosy either.
 
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Swenhir

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That's a sharp U-turn from early Larian games :dizzy-face:
They did have darker themes before. The Black Ring did pretty horrible things and in Ego Draconis you did have a few sinister themes. But this game is just overflowing with misery. I'm kind of relieved I'm not the only one feeling bad about it.
 

BlueOdin

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Started Risen 3 and it is alright so far. Certainly interesting that it has no level-ups but you collect experience points and allocate them. Perks are bought with money which seems to be in abundance. Have to play more but I don't know if I like this system yet or not. Only thing I can say at this point that it took until ELEX that PB could iterate on their character progression that I can say it improved it fully.

Otherwise game is really bright with its environments which I really dig. Landscapes look also really good. At least in the dlc island I just did. Quests are also good like the one guy being afraid from ducks. It is also welcome that the overly offensive use of sarcasm of the first Risen is dropped. That was often unbearable. Then there is Patty's character design which looks like a clown pirate where they went way overboard with the boob slider. It's not like her Risen 1 design was that much better but here I can't help but laugh everytime she is on screen.
 
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BlueOdin

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Currently playing DQVIII after a months long break and having an alright time with it playing it in small doses. Though so far I would still count it among my "least favorite" DQ games which doesn't mean much because I have yet to play a bad one.

But one thing I appreciate about the series is that it "dares" to give you a dungeon without a bossfight. Honesty always delighted to see games do something like that where something doesn't happen because the only reason it has to happen is because it is a videogame. The example that always comes to my mind for "we gotta do a bossfight because it is a videogame!" is the first dungeon in Final Fantasy XII where you are about to leave the area and all of the sudden you are attacked by something with no setup whatsoever and I don't think it even gets referenced after the fight.

Any other opinions?
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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Currently playing DQVIII after a months long break and having an alright time with it playing it in small doses. Though so far I would still count it among my "least favorite" DQ games which doesn't mean much because I have yet to play a bad one.

But one thing I appreciate about the series is that it "dares" to give you a dungeon without a bossfight. Honesty always delighted to see games do something like that where something doesn't happen because the only reason it has to happen is because it is a videogame. The example that always comes to my mind for "we gotta do a bossfight because it is a videogame!" is the first dungeon in Final Fantasy XII where you are about to leave the area and all of the sudden you are attacked by something with no setup whatsoever and I don't think it even gets referenced after the fight.

Any other opinions?
I haven't played a DQ game in a very long time, but I can agree with that. A dungeon can serve a lot of different purposes. In general though I find that RPGs benefit a lot from obfuscating its structure, which admittedly is easier said than done. Once you know you should expect a boss at the end of a dungeon, that your choices are limited to what the game explicitly presents you with, that itemization will rarely deviate from a few main stats, etc. you start to lose that wonder. Keeping the curtains of the game closed (as much as possible) to the player goes a long way into making them invested in the world because it still feels compelling to explore it.

I've been playing Kingdom Come: Deliverance again for a few months now. I was wandering around in the woods and got lost. I stumbled my way into an abandoned house with what looked like animal cages. I found an old stone furnace with several human bones inside it. 😱 On my way out I found a trail and decided I might as well leave following it. After a minute or so I started to notice that there were stones along the trail that looked to be repeating in about the same increments. A marker? The trail eventually intersected with another that had another stone with some sticks making a cross on it. I was curious what I'd find and sure enough there was a bandit camp at the end of it. It looks like they'd been marking the nearby trails.

It's a really minor thing, but I love these types of details. They're small, but the game didn't have to tell me what they were or what I was supposed to do with that information. This type of discovery and exploration is very rewarding to me.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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So I'm walking around in the forest in Kingdom Come: Deliverance, as I do, and...



What a pair of odd-looking branches. Another trail marker?!





Another one. And it looks to be pointing down a path of sorts, not much of a trail.



And at least a few more, until finally...



Aha, the source of the branches! But wait, is that it? I don't see anything else to follow or discover. What does it all mean?! There was a deer hunting spot nearby. Maybe poachers marking these trails?

 
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beep boop

boo
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Currently playing DQVIII after a months long break and having an alright time with it playing it in small doses. Though so far I would still count it among my "least favorite" DQ games which doesn't mean much because I have yet to play a bad one.

But one thing I appreciate about the series is that it "dares" to give you a dungeon without a bossfight. Honesty always delighted to see games do something like that where something doesn't happen because the only reason it has to happen is because it is a videogame. The example that always comes to my mind for "we gotta do a bossfight because it is a videogame!" is the first dungeon in Final Fantasy XII where you are about to leave the area and all of the sudden you are attacked by something with no setup whatsoever and I don't think it even gets referenced after the fight.

Any other opinions?
I haven't played DQ8 much, but I agree with the sentiment. My issue with bosses in these types of games is more often that having to redo them can be rather tedious due to rigid checkpointing systems. DQ11 pretty much had a boss at the end of every dungeon from what I recall, and having to rerun half of a dungeon was quite tedious because you couldn't always avoid enemies consistently. Especially in turn-based RPGs or JRPGs, battles also take too much time when you just want another go at a boss. Not having bosses can be a nice change of pace, even if the alternative is a gimmicky dungeon imo. I'd like to play Legend of Grimrock 2 because I hear it's quite good at interweaving organic puzzle mechanics in its dungeon design to create variety. I enjoyed that aspect of the Etrian Odyssey games as well.

More generally speaking, I've gotten a bit tired of the dungeon-overworld dichotomy, because it usually results in me trudging through a dungeon primarily so I can return to enjoying the exploration of the overworld. Having that feeling of 'multidirectional' exploration taken away for a few hours (however much of a facade its openness may be in reality) until you go through a largely linear dungeon doesn't feel fun to me. While not an RPG, I liked how Breath of the Wild unified these two traditionally separate phases. Even though it did have shrines, much of the design patterns previously exclusive to dungeons were integrated into the world in a way that made them part of the exploration cycle, which really enriched the variety of play in the ‘overworld’ and minimized that feeling of having to go through a funnel of sorts before you could get back to (what I consider) "the good part". Really clever. That's also what I liked about the Souls games, in particular DS1. Despite not being as open-ended as a BotW, they, too, tend to blur the line between overworld and dungeon, so meaningful exploration or expository content isn't exclusive to or largely concentrated in one phase or another, like what tends to happen with games that do separate these two instances. I suppose this more integrative design philosophy is also why I like Metroidvania style games and immersive sims as much as I do.

Thinking about it some more, the kind of phasic design that permeates many RPGs and in particular JRPGs is probably part of my growing disinfatuation with the genre. Having that clean break between overworld and dungeon, exploration and combat, play and exposition has become a bit stale to me.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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I'm pretty excited about Obsidian exploring Eora further. I hope it's not the last time we see Pillars of Eternity or another more traditional CRPG, but I'm pretty interested to see what this looks like.

Some people on the official forums translated the sword here:



There is also some speculation about this being a prequel. I did see what looked like Adra veins in the cliffs. Perhaps an early Eastern Reach colony period?



This looks like a statue of Galawain.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

Lizardman
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I've been getting the urge to play an RPG that requires mapping. Is there any interest in making an event of this? Just something casual where we pick our own RPG and share our maps (hand-drawn or digitally) along with our progress.

An old Pool of Radiance map I have uploaded:

 

Taborcarn

Battle Santa
Feb 28, 2019
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It’s a interesting idea. I bought Grid Cartographer is the Steam sale but I haven’t used it for anything yet. But I might just be too lazy to follow through.
 

BlueOdin

No regrets only Drip now
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Randomly going through my GBA games and seeing the Pokemon games and I was wondering: Are there many RPGs with rivals? I always dug it here because you often meet them along your journey and everytime they've become stronger, have a bigger team, different team composition which shows a complete different journey from your own.

But apart from Pokemon I haven't played anything that features something in any meaningful way. The only instance I can think of is the rival medium in FFX that comes up from time to time to talk shit at you but you never battle them.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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Randomly going through my GBA games and seeing the Pokemon games and I was wondering: Are there many RPGs with rivals? I always dug it here because you often meet them along your journey and everytime they've become stronger, have a bigger team, different team composition which shows a complete different journey from your own.

But apart from Pokemon I haven't played anything that features something in any meaningful way. The only instance I can think of is the rival medium in FFX that comes up from time to time to talk shit at you but you never battle them.
Did you pick up a Pocket as well?

There aren't many, that's for sure. Wizardry VII had NPC groups competing against you for important items. Fallout: Van Buren was supposed to have something like a rival group of adventurers competing against you. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought Wasteland 3 pitched something like that, but it may have been cooperative only.

I wouldn't mind seeing it used more. I agree, it works well in Pokemon.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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That's a lot of people leaving Rattay. Where is everyone going so early in the morning?



Oh right, public executions are all the rage in 15th century Europe.
 
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BlueOdin

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Did you pick up a Pocket as well?

There aren't many, that's for sure. Wizardry VII had NPC groups competing against you for important items. Fallout: Van Buren was supposed to have something like a rival group of adventurers competing against you. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought Wasteland 3 pitched something like that, but it may have been cooperative only.

I wouldn't mind seeing it used more. I agree, it works well in Pokemon.
Sadly no Pocket for me. Can’t afford it currently even if I was fast enough to get one. Habe to wait for another chance to get one down the line
 

Durante

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I haven't read this thread in a while (sorry!) but I want to add my 2 cents to the discussion about dungeons and their purpose. I feel like dungeons, especially in many JRPGs but also some western games, have had a similar fate to a lot of other mechanics. They became codified as integral parts of the genre, and eventually they turned into a box to tick, while the gameplay purpose was sometimes forgotten.

Traditionally, the point of the "long-ish dungeon with a boss at the end" setup, from a gameplay perspective, is making the player think about and plan their resource consumption ("resources" in the extended sense, including things like party health, MP, and of course items). However, in the vast majority of modern games, there really isn't any need for strict resource management. Some actively realize this and e.g. heal your entire party after every fight, while others still have you heal manually, but since it's basically impossible to run out of resources it's more for show. (Of course there still are some games where resource management is actually a thing; a popular example is Dark Souls in between bonfires)

With resource management gone as an incentive, there's not really a gameplay imperative to keep the traditional dungeon structure, but it mostly remains since people expect it. And of course, sometimes it makes a lot of sense from a story/lore perspective and adds to the game in that way (I'd argue the PoE1 megadungeon is a good example of this, with its layers of history and civilizations to explore).
 

BlueOdin

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So I am currently playing Fallout 1 because I want to replay New Vegas at some point. After watching a few video essays on the series but especially this one made me even more interested in playing it over:


I played it when I was a lot dumber and did miss most of its theme, design, etc. because they went over my head back then. So as someone who always said it is one of my favorite RPGs I feel I owe it to myself to play it now that I am... less dumb. But not just themes but also more experience with RPGs and building a character.

Anyway, I thought I would combine that with playing through Fallout 1 and 2 because it feels like a "now or never" kind of situation I am doing it now before starting New Vegas. So like I said I am currently playing FO1.

It is the first time that I played an older game where I felt a remake/touch-up would be something I'd take in a heartbeat. Something like contextsensitive pointer, easier inventory sharing with companions, unique sprites/models for characters you can talk to and your companions. A few little tweaks (not to say streamline it a bit) here and there. I still I enjoy but some of the things I mentioned got annoying for me after a while that I am playing the game now with a guide.
 
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Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
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I could be wrong but it's not just age, Fallout 1 never felt good to me, pointer wise. Each time I tried playing it, when it's time to interact with the game world I'm all ughhh.

That being said I should do like you and play the two games.
 
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Durante

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Of all the highly-regarded "CRPG classics" of its rough era, Fallout 1 was always the one that appealed to me least. It's extremely clunky, and battles take far more time than they should, especially considering that the system really doesn't have the tactical depth to support that.
 

BlueOdin

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I don't really have that many problems with the combat system. It is simple sure but now after getting a few new weapons aiming for the eyes (or groin) being almost always 80+% hit chance make all the encounters relatively quick. Other than a longer encounter early on there wasn't anything too long. The only misgiving I would give it that it while it has aiming for different body parts there is almost no reaction to it. It is either a crit or the enemy falls down but gets up on their turn again.
 

BlueOdin

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Finished Fallout 1

Overall I dug it though there are some things I disliked.

Main complaint is still the UI. Especially in one of the later ones there was a way to interact with the game world that was never required before to get through. Maybe if I had a handbook that came with it to read I might have known but I don’t so I had to look it up. Doesn’t help that the thing I had to do was also reminiscent of PnC in terms of what was required.

There was also a combat scenario which goes on forever since every NPC has to takes it turns. Even some that aren’t on screen.

A thing that I liked was one aspect of the ending After you saw your John Hughes ending slides your character gets back to Vault 13 as a hero. However, due to your status as a hero the overseer doesn't want them there because how people will treat them is a threat to his power. Really liked it because it is something that I haven’t seen very often in games.

One other thing I liked was the companions dying along the way because enemies got too powerful. You either had to be fast enough or leave them somewhere if you want them to make it to the end. After a while I was fed up with reloading and saving them so let the stay dead (except Dogmeat) and made it my headcanon that my storms on the Cathedral and Military Base were suicide missions and they knew the risk. Funnily enough that also made Mass Effect 2 worse for me because you could come out of the final mission with everyone alive. I know the reasons why but the more time pass it gets more and more disappointing.

Without getting too much into details I'd say one should play it. It isn’t that long, sets up some things for the rest of the series
 

BlueOdin

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Slowly making my way through Demon's Souls at a pace of a level a day. Enjoying it though I can definitely feel that they were able to refine over the years.

But I am enjoying it. Since this is the fifth (four and a half since I never finished Bloodborn or sixth if you count Sekiro) game in this vein the difficulty is rather reduced for me. Another part is probably how powerful magic is in this game which coincides with my plan of playing more RPGs with a focus on magic 😛

But since Bloodborne and Sekiro don’t have shields and Dark Souls 2 and 3 also have severely reduced the usefulness of shields I am playing it almost shieldless. I have one in the backhand but rarely use it. Mostly run around with a wand and a sword. It is more fun this way. And thinking back the description for the shield in Bloodborne is 100% true. I am now more aggressive which seems more like how they intended the game to work. Only thing I miss are parries with my wand but oh well.

Otherwise the game is alright. Of course a lot of ideas are a bit rough and they could iterate on in later games. 1-1 is a great level, 2-1 was good and 1-2 was a bad gimmick level. I think what I enjoy most about the game so far is the presentation which together with the soundtrack gives it these dreamlike atmosphere.

Playing on PC with RPCS3 (own it on PS3 but the performance was rough for me and made me nauseous). Works pretty good. Later areas might be bad but so far I can recommend it this way if your PC is up to task.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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What does everyone think so far?

I'm not sure how much of the Early Access I'll play because I want to avoid spoiling myself, but I really enjoyed the little bit I played tonight.

I'm not sure which class I'll play when it releases. I love playing Cleric, but Shadowheart looks like an interesting companion too.
 
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Stevey

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I have Atom RPG installed, just got to get round to playing it sometime :steam_cleanseal:

Been playing a bit of Skyrim SE as well
 
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Swenhir

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I'm going through a complete Dragon Age replay and I have to say, there's a lot of stuff in Inquisition that is showing up or being referred to in Origins. It's a pleasure, honestly, I am not spotting as many lore inconsistencies as I would originally have thought.
 
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Monooboe

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I'm going through a complete Dragon Age replay and I have to say, there's a lot of stuff in Inquisition that is showing up or being referred to in Origins. It's a pleasure, honestly, I am not spotting as many lore inconsistencies as I would originally have thought.
Really want to replay it, but man I wish they would bring over those achievements from the console version!
 

Swenhir

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Yeah but I was mostly thinking about for Steam, since its in the code already. I try not to replay games that often, unless its to get the achievements haha.
Ah, I understand. To me, achievements are more distracting and unwelcome than not, I never really got into them. The game's the focus, the journey, not some arbitrary validation that has no purpose other than a dopamine kick :p.
 

Monooboe

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Ah, I understand. To me, achievements are more distracting and unwelcome than not, I never really got into them. The game's the focus, the journey, not some arbitrary validation that has no purpose other than a dopamine kick :p.
It isn't really about that, I used to hoard save files before, as some kind of record of what I did in a game but now I just use achievements for that.
 
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Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
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I'm really torn on Dragon Age. I still need to play the second one, but at this point in time I only vaguely remember the world / lore.
On the other hand, I'm not okay with the idea of replaying the 100-150 hours of DA1 + Xpac. And that's without grumbling about the overall very solid but lacking this little something experience of DA1.
 

Monooboe

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I'm really torn on Dragon Age. I still need to play the second one, but at this point in time I only vaguely remember the world / lore.
On the other hand, I'm not okay with the idea of replaying the 100-150 hours of DA1 + Xpac. And that's without grumbling about the overall very solid but lacking this little something experience of DA1.
Don't think it's that important to remember the lore, pretty sure anything you need to know will be repeated.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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Don't mind me, trying to launch a healing spell on this thread :tired-face:


Glad to see it bumped again.



I finished my Hardcore + DLCs campaign a few weeks back. A Woman's Lot is a fantastic DLC. The two main parts being the Theresa prologue, and a series of quests involving Johanka during the later parts of the game. The writing is good, and it goes a long way to flesh out your childhood friends and relationships. A Band of Bastards was pretty good as well.

I've already spoken at length about my opinion of the game, but I think it's one of the best open-world RPGs of the past decade. It does so much of what games like Morrowind and Gothic used to do before quest markers became step one of quest design. It makes you feel like you can do anything that should work, and in most cases it does, and without having to tell you that it's an option.



Lately I've been playing Cyberpunk 2077, as I'm sure a lot of you are. I've only just finished Act 1, but I'm having a pretty great time. End of Act 1 Spoilers: I have to admit, I was pretty torn up after Jackie's death. The first thing I worried about after waking up was going to his ofrenda. I'll miss the guy.



Nox Archaist released a few weeks ago. Has anyone played it?
 
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BlueOdin

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Finished Cyberpunk 2077 and I feel indifferent to negative towards it.

[Here I would write something about graphics, presentation, soundtrack and what not. But now I have written the following and I don't want to waste any more energy on the game. At least currently. Maybe later I will come back and add some stuff.]

There is some neat character building stuff in it. For example because I invested nothing in the Body my character was too weak for pulling people out of cars. But's that the extent of it from what I've seen. Maybe I could've forced some doors open here and there but other than that how you build your character is pretty much not mattering at all. The only thing that really changed things up in how to possibly approach anything differently is getting the double jump upgrade.
Especially disappointing for me in that regard was that it doesn't matter for dialogue at all. You get a few options but other than a few instances which I can count on one hand you get a bit of a different answer. Yet in the end you still end up at the same spot.

Which is true for the dialogue regardless of if it requires a skill or not. It's not a tree but a straight line through. You can ask different things but other than flavor text it doesn't really matter. You don't get any information that you could use later in the conversation or for another quest or dialogue. It's just useless fluff that serves no real purpose in the game most of the time.

The game can be enjoyable but is also incredibly hollow. It has almost next to nothing to say about how all this technology could affect humanity. It's basically a "Wow, cool future"-backdrop. The bits and pieces where it all shines through make the rest of it all the more disappointing.

In the end this feels like a game that was made by different teams that didn't talk with each other much because of bad project management. Out of the disappointments that were Fallout 4, Outer Worlds and Cyberpunk 2077 in the big budget RPG this probably is the biggest even if just for the fact that they fell the highest.
 
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Arulan

Arulan

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A new year, and a lot more RPGs to play!

I'm not sure what my plans are this year. I still have Wasteland 3 to check out at some point, Disco Elysium will probably get another playthrough once the new update hits, and there are dozens hundreds of other RPGs I'd like to play too.

No real updates to this thread for now. It's probably best to see where it naturally goes, but I hope people chime in every once in a while to post their thoughts.
 

BlueOdin

No regrets only Drip now
Dec 3, 2018
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This will be the year in which I finish both Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 and Pillars of Eternity. Might even delve into a dungeon crawler for the first time. With DQIX I will probably finish the last mainline Dragon Quest game I have yet to finish. Also have some other things on my plate like Nioh 2 PC or FFVII Remastered gettings its PC version probably soon, too. And like Arulan I intend to play Disco Elyisum again this year with the update.
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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Personally, this year I ideally will finally play Bloodlines 1, Disco Elysium, Original Sin 1-2, Kingmaker

Special mention :
It would be the best year ever if I finally had the gut to replay Planescape, to know what THE . FUCKING . BALL contains. I was 1 stat point short. Yes, this is a trauma. Problem is, I loved the game so much that I still have pretty vivid memories of it, the risk of being bored exists.