Community MetaSteam | August 2021 - Openness Is Its Superpower

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Mor

Me llamo Willy y no hice la mili, pero vendo Chili
Sep 7, 2018
7,113
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I quit 13 Sentinels yesterday. Not because it's a bad game, but it's a mixture of thinking that a PC version could be announced any day now and that I'd really like to use cheats (like speedhack) in certain parts of the game, both of those reducing my motivation and interest in playing it on PS.
Yeeeaaaah.... no
 

Shahem

R7 7800X3D I RTX 4080
Jan 26, 2020
1,268
2,275
113
France
Which proves my point that they don't have a fucking idea about how to properly release their stuff nor the timing.

Edited a bit but those are the ones that make more sense to me atm by release time on consoles - PC (all over 2 years) except maybe Tsushima now that it has been just released on the PS5 which would be PS4 2020 - PS5 2021 - PC 2022

That list over there is pretty much what I'm asking xD


25th IIRC
Yeah, I completely forgot about Uncharted 1-3....
Unfortunately there's precedent, Microsoft did not release Gears 2/3 on PC and went with 4 onwards.
I hope Sony are smarter than this.

I guess The Last of Us 1+2 could come to PC next year as well.
 
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Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
4,074
19,654
113
I guess one reason I can't really appreciate gamepass -- even if the current absolute showstoppers (for me) regarding UWP and distribution were ever solved -- is because I take the long view of these things. Perhaps an unreasonably long view in most people's eyes for what's ultimately "just games", but that's just how I am and it's also part of the reason why I can't even really give credit to EGS for the free games and outright refuse to use it for anything.

All of these companies currently aggressively building a more-or-less captive audience will eventually want to actually make money, and since their current offerings lose it hand over fist that means that they will undoubtedly become much worse. Steam is already demonstrably self-sustaining, and that's very important to me.

I can of course absolutely understand why for many people these issues aren't important at all, or at least not sufficiently important to negate the significant financial advantages.
 
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lashman

lashman

Dead & Forgotten
Sep 5, 2018
32,361
91,163
113
I guess one reason I can't really appreciate gamepass -- even if the current absolute showstoppers (for me) regarding UWP and distribution were ever solved -- is because I take the long view of these things. Perhaps an unreasonably long view in most people's eyes for what's ultiamtely "just games", but that's just how I am and it's also part of the reason why I can't even really give credit to EGS for the free games and outright refuse to use it for anything.

All of these companies currently aggressively building a more-or-less captive audience will eventually want to actually make money, and since there current offerings lose it hand over fist that means that they will undoubtedly become much worse. Steam is already demonstrably self-sustaining, and that's very important to me.

I can of course absolutely understand why for many people these issues aren't important at all, or at least not sufficiently important to negate the significant financial advantages.
yup, this ... absolutely ... 100%
 

Dinjoralo

None shall remember those who do not fight.
Dec 6, 2018
963
1,972
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I have to wonder how Gamepass's profitability is measured in regards to things like Microsoft's rewards program. Cuz I've mentioned that being how I get PC Gamepass, and I know that's how a lot of people get Ultimate. I don't pay them out of my pocket, but I use Bing about 80 times a day and they get ad revenue from all that. There's also the stuff you can do on Xbox that I think is mainly playing games and such, stuff I don't see how Microsoft profits from besides conditioning people to use Gamepass.

...Speaking of, I'm gonna have a Gamepass Ultimate code I'm willing to trade for ten bucks or so...
 

manchego obfuscator

MetaMember
Jan 23, 2020
937
2,293
93
I guess one reason I can't really appreciate gamepass -- even if the current absolute showstoppers (for me) regarding UWP and distribution were ever solved -- is because I take the long view of these things. Perhaps an unreasonably long view in most people's eyes for what's ultiamtely "just games", but that's just how I am and it's also part of the reason why I can't even really give credit to EGS for the free games and outright refuse to use it for anything.

All of these companies currently aggressively building a more-or-less captive audience will eventually want to actually make money, and since there current offerings lose it hand over fist that means that they will undoubtedly become much worse. Steam is already demonstrably self-sustaining, and that's very important to me.

I can of course absolutely understand why for many people these issues aren't important at all, or at least not sufficiently important to negate the significant financial advantages.
yeah, this is fair. MS is a huge corporation that exists to make money and Game Pass clearly isn't something that exists out of the goodness of their hearts. but for now, Game Pass PC is a good enough value that I'll keep subscribing; if the value proposition gets significantly worse, I'll reconsider.

that said, MS clearly doesn't see Steam as competition in the way that Epic does, and it doesn't appear that Game Pass PC is hurting sales of those games on Steam, so it's hard for me to see Game Pass as bad for PC gaming on balance
 

fantomena

MetaMember
Dec 17, 2018
9,870
26,581
113
I guess one reason I can't really appreciate gamepass -- even if the current absolute showstoppers (for me) regarding UWP and distribution were ever solved -- is because I take the long view of these things. Perhaps an unreasonably long view in most people's eyes for what's ultimately "just games", but that's just how I am and it's also part of the reason why I can't even really give credit to EGS for the free games and outright refuse to use it for anything.

All of these companies currently aggressively building a more-or-less captive audience will eventually want to actually make money, and since their current offerings lose it hand over fist that means that they will undoubtedly become much worse. Steam is already demonstrably self-sustaining, and that's very important to me.

I can of course absolutely understand why for many people these issues aren't important at all, or at least not sufficiently important to negate the significant financial advantages.
Yeah, I agreed.

Overall I think my dislike for game pass also comes from the fact that I don't really trust the service.

Tommorrow suddenly MS decides to temporarily close access to a certain number of games for whatever reason. Anything like that can happen.

Ironically, I have had Game Pass Ultimate for many years now, even only Xbox Game Pass when it was only on Xbox. I thought I was gonna like it, but it all comes down to trusting issues for me. I just don't trust game pass as a service (games leaving, technical issues) or MS (they can do what they want with it).
 
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Dinjoralo

None shall remember those who do not fight.
Dec 6, 2018
963
1,972
93
TBH, if I couldn't get Gamepass for free, I'd stop using it. Because as it stands, I don't use it every day, or even most days, and that's fine because no skin off my nose. If I was paying ten bucks a month for it, the consideration of using it would start factoring into how I play games, I would bend my habits around it which I don't want to do. Same thing with video streaming services, I don't want to have to start weighing how I spend my time based on whether or not I'm "making good use" of something I'm paying for.
 

hersheyfan

South Sea Islander
Jul 17, 2021
421
1,402
93
Manila, Philippines
steamcommunity.com
And remember, tons of countries in the world does not have game pass, it's only a bunch of, mainly, first world countries. Not quite accessible if you ask me.
Just a small clarification here, XGP isn't officially available in many countries around the world. But what pretty much everybody does is simply change the PC or Xbox region to a supported region (ex. the United States) and XGP works just fine (no VPN shenanigans required, just a location toggle in settings).

I get where you come from regarding game ownership though, and fully agree that I derive more satisfaction from owning games vs. renting them. I feel as though liking XGP and liking owning games don't have to be mutually exclusive though, I enjoy both!
 

PC-tan

Low Tier Weeb
Jan 19, 2019
3,826
6,185
113
28
California
Hektor I'm watching that one Eva Japanese cartoon movies and they are okay. I like how none of it makes any sense and how they just throw terms around like they are supposed to means something (from my understanding they never explain what stuff really is and just vague terms for plot armor reason) /s

I like how the Evas move especially in the second movie were they are running and jumping around (Gundams are boring in comparison)

I'm sorry texhnolyze
 

ISee

Oh_no!
Mar 1, 2019
3,220
8,306
113
So, I decided to check out the D2: Resurrected multiplayer beta and after 2 minutes of playing my Sophos Antivirus closed the game.

"A Dynamic Shellcode exploit was prevented, the application Diablo2: Resurrected Multiplayer Beta was closed to prevent unwanted access to your system."


No idea what that even means, so I googled it:

Dynamic Shellcode Protection is designed to prevent active adversaries from achieving one of their most sought-after goals: using remote access agents to gain “hands on keyboard” privileges.
Suspicious behavior includes identifying processes that create a remote agent inside another process. This allows attackers to come in through one application and migrate to another application while maintaining a connection to their command-and-control systems. It also gives them the ability to hide their tracks and establish persistence on the device.


A false positive? Most probably! Diablo 2 is legitimate software, from a reputable company. I could tell Sophos to pass it.
On the other side, it's Activision-Blizzard. Fuck them, my trust level toward a company that shady and scummy is zero. I'm out.


Edit:
It is repeatable and happens when just standing around in town, without ever doing anything
AND
while just sitting at the character screen.

 
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Yoshi

o_O
Jan 5, 2019
751
4,356
93
Weekend PC Game Deals (credit to Neowin)

Bundles:
Humble Seven Deadly Sims collection
Fanatical Indie Bundle Legend XI
Fanatical Kingdom Bundle
Fanatical Guardian Bundle 3

Free Events:
Elder Scrolls Online
Star Citizen
Scarlet Nexus$38.99 on Steam
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice$35.99 on GamesPlanet
DOOM Franchise Bundle$33.71 on Steam
Tetris Effect: Connected$29.99 on Steam
STAR WARS Jedi: Fallen Order$17.99 on Fanatical
Age of Empires Definitive Collection$17.99 on GamesPlanet
Art of Rally$17.49 on Steam
Remnant: From the Ashes$15.99 on Steam
Operation: Tango$15.99 on Steam
Power Rangers: Battle for the Grid$12.99 on Steam
Paradise Killer$12.99 on Steam
Noita$11.99 on Steam
Middle-earth: Shadow of War - Definitive Edition$11.99 on Steam
Kingdom Come: Deliverance$10.19 on Steam
Summer in Mara$9.99 on Steam
Fallout 4: Game of the Year Edition$9.99 on Steam
Monster Sanctuary$9.99 on Steam
Assassin's Creed III Remastered$9.99 on Humble Store
The Witness$9.59 on Steam
Command & Conquer Remastered Collection$8.99 on Fanatical
Dishonored: Death of the Outside Deluxe Bundle$8.99 on Steam
Titanfall 2: Ultimate Edition$8.99 on Steam
Pathfinder: Kingmaker$8.99 on Humble Store
The Elder Scrolls Online$7.99 on Steam
Creed: Rise to Glory VR$7.49 on Steam
Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes$7.49 on Steam
We Were Here Together$6.49 on Steam
Raw Data VR$5.99 on Steam
Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition$5.99 on Steam
Nuclear Throne$5.99 on Steam
Guacamelee! 2$4.99 on Steam
LEGO - The Hobbit$4.99 on Steam
LEGO Lord of the Rings$4.99 on Steam
Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor GOTY Edition$4.99 on Steam
Medal of Honor$4.99 on Origin
SPORE$4.99 on Origin
The Sims 4 $4.99 on Origin
DOOM VFR$4.94 on Steam
Dishonored 2$4.49 on Steam
Sprint Vector VR$4.49 on Steam
Broforce$2.99 on Steam
Tick Tock: A Tale for Two$2.99 on Steam
Genital Jousting$2.16 on Steam
Psychonauts in the Rhombus of Ruin VR$1.99 on Steam
Dead Space$1.99 on Origin
Torchlight$1 on Fanatical
Psychonauts$0.99 on Steam
Yooka-Laylee$0 on Epic Store
Void Bastards$0 on Epic Store
Desperados III - $24.99 on GOG
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines - $15.99 on GOG
Destroy All Humans! - $14.99 on GOG
Metro Exodus - $11.99 on GOG
Loop Hero - $10.04 on GOG
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - GOTY Edition - $9.99 on GOG
My Friend Pedro - $9.99 on GOG
Observation - $9.99 on GOG
Shadow Warrior 2 - $5.99 on GOG
The Messenger - $5.99 on GOG
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion GOTY Deluxe - $5.99 on GOG
SWAT 4: Gold Edition - $4.99 on GOG
Dragon Age: Origins - Ultimate Edition - $4.99 on GOG
SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition - $4.99 on GOG
Pizza Connection 3 - $3.99 on GOG
Tomb Raider GOTY - $3.99 on GOG
Ori and the Blind Forest: Definitive Edition - $3.49 on GOG
Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director’s Cut - $2.99 on GOG
Sleeping Dogs: Definitive Edition - $2.99 on GOG
World in Conflict: Complete Edition - $2.49 on GOG
Theme Hospital - $1.49 on GOG
Tomb Raider: Anniversary - $0.98 on GOG
Quake II RTX - $0 on GOG
If there's something missing or cheaper, let me know :)
 
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Dinjoralo

None shall remember those who do not fight.
Dec 6, 2018
963
1,972
93
I definitely understand (And even agree) with the worries regarding Gamepass

That said, I have 3 years left of my sub :minos_laughin:
I've got it for the next six seven months or so. And it takes me ~20 days to get a 30 day code from Bing searchin'.
 
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LEANIJA

MetaMember
May 5, 2019
3,250
7,944
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Austria
So since some people mentioned how much (or how little) they played Skyrim: its my most-played game on Steam (but compared to WOW, its absolutely nothing ;) )

But Im wondering, what are your Top ten on Steam? Mine are:

1​
Skyrim​
291,4​
(Original version: 261, Special Edition: 28, VR Edition: 2,4)​
2​
Deus Ex: Human Revolution​
232,8​
(Original version: 166, Directors Cut: 55, Missing Link DLC: 11,8)​
3​
Rocket League​
188​
4​
Hitman 2​
149​
5​
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt​
136​
6​
Cyberpunk 2077​
136​
7​
Terraria​
125​
8​
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided​
110​
9​
Grand Theft Auto V​
93​
10​
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning​
90,8​
(Original version: 90, Re-Reckoning: 0,8)​
 

ZKenir

Setting the Seas Ablaze
May 10, 2019
3,489
9,898
113
But Im wondering, what are your Top ten on Steam?
1Total War: WARHAMMER II2,580 hrs on record
2Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth: Complete Edition254 hrs on record
3Total War: WARHAMMER242 hrs on record
4The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim225 hrs on record
5Fallout 4219 hrs on record
6The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt213 hrs on record
7Mass Effect™ Legendary Edition198 hrs on record
8GOD EATER 2 Rage Burst184 hrs on record
9Tales of Zestiria149 hrs on record
10Tales of Berseria144 hrs on record
 

Readher

Resident Cynic
Jun 23, 2020
430
1,236
93
Poland
1Counter-Strike: Global Offensive1,359 hrs on record
2Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer866 hrs on record
3Company of Heroes 2436 hrs on record
4The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim305 hrs on record
5Hearts of Iron IV 251 hrs on record
6Arma 3234 hrs on record
7Europa Universalis IV225 hrs on record
8Victoria II187 hrs on record
9DayZ180 hrs on record
10Dragon Age: Origins - Ultimate Edition 151 hrs on record
 

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
4,324
12,267
113
So since some people mentioned how much (or how little) they played Skyrim: its my most-played game on Steam (but compared to WOW, its absolutely nothing ;) )

But Im wondering, what are your Top ten on Steam? Mine are:

1​
Skyrim​
291,4​
(Original version: 261, Special Edition: 28, VR Edition: 2,4)​
2​
Deus Ex: Human Revolution​
232,8​
(Original version: 166, Directors Cut: 55, Missing Link DLC: 11,8)​
3​
Rocket League​
188​
4​
Hitman 2​
149​
5​
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt​
136​
6​
Cyberpunk 2077​
136​
7​
Terraria​
125​
8​
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided​
110​
9​
Grand Theft Auto V​
93​
10​
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning​
90,8​
(Original version: 90, Re-Reckoning: 0,8)​
On Steam it's this:

Divinity Original Sin 2127 hours
Divinity Original Sin 120 hours
Pillars of Eternity116 hours
Fallout New Vegas106 hours
Dragon Quest XI 99 hours
Tales of Vesperia84 hours
Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky SC84 hours
Final Fantasy XII82 hours
Yakuza 080 hours
Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire 77 hours

The longest I spent on a game is Witcher 3 at over 200, but that was on GOG.
 

xxr

Member of the Abyss
Dec 21, 2018
563
1,493
93
I've been trying for two days now, how do you get the Bethesda Steam items?
 

ezodagrom

JELLYBEE
Nov 2, 2018
1,884
4,926
113
Portugal
www.youtube.com
But Im wondering, what are your Top ten on Steam?
1Phantasy Star Online 2786(Includes both PSO2 and NGS)
2Monster Hunter: World464(I still barely started Iceborne, I want to get back into it once I finish a few other games)
3Agarest: Generations of War453(This is how starved I was for JRPGs on PC back when this released)
4Rocket League442
5Trails in the Sky SC362(2 playthroughs, 2nd had many battle retries for recording videos)
6Trails in the Sky229(Same as above)
7Sonic Generations209(Recording videos of stages and also the Unleashed Project mod)
8Counter Strike: Global Offensive190
9Tales of Zestiria176
10Final Fantasy X/X-2166(Both games)

FFXIV would have been above PSO2 if I had gotten it on Steam though, which is now at 1044 hours of playtime (but then again, the Steam version of PSO2 doesn't include the JP version where I had over 10k hours <_<).
 
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fantomena

MetaMember
Dec 17, 2018
9,870
26,581
113
Sonofabitch, I got an offer for 50% PS Plus until 30rd august and I don't know what to do. Never had such a low offer before on PS PLUS.

Right now Im going in the direction of not accepting it. I wish online was free on PS5.

Anyways, Im gonna start on a new game tommorrow, thinking about 12 min, but currently have that, Carto, Ender Lillies and Omori installed on Steam.
 
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Kyougar

No reviews, no Buy
Nov 2, 2018
3,312
11,810
113
Factorio1,128 Std. insgesamt
BATTLETECH555 Std. insgesamt
Europa Universalis IV459 Std. insgesamt
FINAL FANTASY XIV Online451 Std. insgesamt
Path of Exile450 Std. insgesamt
Crusader Kings II404 Std. insgesamt
Mount & Blade: Warband382 Std. insgesamt
Eco382 Std. insgesamt
Stellaris372 Std. insgesamt
Sid Meier's Civilization VI372 Std. insgesamt
 

Blu

MetaMember
Mar 12, 2019
1,052
3,231
113
1. Quake Champions - 1,572 hrs on record
Haven't played much of it lately but still the most enjoyable modern shooter for me.
2. Eternal Return - 1,026 hrs on record
My current go to multiplayer game. MOBA + BR. A moba where I can play without teammates. So good!
3. Risk of Rain 2 - 864 hrs on record
Very fun roguelike with a group a friends. Just stack items endlessly and watch your frames drop while you one shot enemies.
4. Dota 2 - 854 hrs on record
Have stopped playing but I still consider going back from time to time but I want to keep my sanity.
5. Street Fighter V - 805 hrs on record
Always have a love for SF but SFV doesn't doesn't land the mark for me in terms of it's systems. Faulty rollback is a bummer.
6. Dota Underlords - 494 hrs on record
I would still be interested in playing if they updated it. Very fun casual play.
7. DRAGON BALL FighterZ - 467 hrs on record
Only played with an IRL friend. Fun enough to mess around with but didn't love it. Some frustrating mechanics.
8. The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth - 251 hrs on record
A lot of fun with a friend through remote play. Spelunky would be here but I played that on my PS3 Still a lot of items and a lot of fun interactions between them.
9. Monster Hunter: World - 195 hrs on record
Never found a weapon I loved. Might go back to it if my friend picked it up.
10. TEKKEN 7 - 150 hrs on record
Will always play Tekken but never end up with an itch to play more.
 
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Wok

Wok
Oct 30, 2018
4,923
13,188
113
France
I have finished all three endings of Twelve Minutes.
One of them deletes the save file. :evilblob: Thankfully, I read about it before triggering it.

I have mostly enjoyed the game because it was intriguing and had a game-book touch. However, the story touches unusual subjects and mixes them in weird manners (not in a good sense). I don't know which ending is the true ending, but I think all would be disappointing.
 
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Dec 5, 2018
1,760
4,348
113
But Im wondering, what are your Top ten on Steam?
1FINAL FANTASY X/X-2 HD Remaster218hThis is technically 3 games so ...
2DRAGON QUEST® XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age154h
3Persona 4 Golden137h
4SaGa SCARLET GRACE: AMBITIONS123hFour routes
5Nioh: Complete Edition114hGames + DLCs
6Yakuza 0110h
7Yakuza 5109h
8FINAL FANTASY XII THE ZODIAC AGE100h
9Street Fighter V90h
10DARK SOULS: Prepare To Die Edition85h

I have some games outside of steam (on GOG) that might appear there but I'm to lazy to check.
 

Digoman

Lurking in the Shadows
Dec 21, 2018
854
2,390
93
So, in a total random thought and not al all related to all the lists here.... I wish there was a way to delete playtime for certain games ... :p

And no, it's not porn. It's a way more shameful amount of hours in Dota 2 followed by Destiny 2. Thankfully I dumped them I can actually play other games now. Not that hiding it for adult games wouldn't also be useful..... you now, for a friend.
 

MJunioR

MetaMember
Mar 13, 2019
2,059
5,433
113
My top 15 (sorry I ain't making any tables like you fancy people)

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive - 1260 hours
Counter-Strike: Source - 138 hours
WWE 2K19 - 128 hours
PAYDAY 2 - 126 hours
Counter-Strike: Condition Zero - 126 hours
Yakuza 0 - 115 hours
Red Dead Redemption 2 - 108 hours
Sid Meier's Civilization V - 100 hours
Rogue Company - 99 hours
Rocket League - 93 hours
Cyberpunk 2077 - 93 hours
City Game Studio - 92 hours
Assassin's Creed: Odyssey - 88 hours
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 86 hours
 

Readher

Resident Cynic
Jun 23, 2020
430
1,236
93
Poland
So, in a total random thought and not al all related to all the lists here.... I wish there was a way to delete playtime for certain games ... :p

And no, it's not porn. It's a way more shameful amount of hours in Dota 2 followed by Destiny 2. Thankfully I dumped them I can actually play other games now. Not that hiding it for adult games wouldn't also be useful..... you now, for a friend.
All those MW2 MP hours are solely due to all my friends playing it. I kept saying that CoD4 Promod is thousands times better and eventually succeeded in transferring everyone to it, but I still had to force myself for hundreds of hours. Shamefur dispray.
 
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Cacher

MetaMember
Jun 3, 2020
4,867
14,325
113
Sorry for the late reply.
And now that Im working full time I will need to be picky with my gaming time, not playing games Im somewhat interested in just because they are on game pass, so rather buy games Im really interested and take my time with them.
Same. I would rather play games at my own pace. I can see the appeal of Game Pass but I don't like being constantly reminded that I should play certain games asap because of limit availability.
Yeah. A few days ago I made a "completed" category to put all games I've finished there. Lets just say that the result was... underwhelming, to say the least. I really didn't realize how few games I played to the end. Granted, there are a ton of pre-digital games that I have boxed copies of that I've finished and there are also games I have on other launchers (mainly Uplay and Origin) that I played to the end, but it's still a really low number compared to how many games I own. I play a ton of multiplayer games with my friends though, so I guess it can't be helped. It's not like I dick around on PC doing nothing instead of playing games.
I also have the same category in my library. It only consists of 10% of the total number of games I own. So.... yeah, I want to bump up the number before continuing buying games.
 

LEANIJA

MetaMember
May 5, 2019
3,250
7,944
113
Austria
So ahem, I checked my WOW characters (you have to go through them one by one and type "/played" to see your played time). Now I could only check my current account, my other (US-)account is currently inactive, but I mustve checked there at some point, because I have a spreadsheet. And ahem, all in all, I have approximately 8700 hours on that game.


Ahem.
 

Dragon1893

MetaMember
Apr 17, 2019
1,707
4,156
113
So ahem, I checked my WOW characters (you have to go through them one by one and type "/played" to see your played time). Now I could only check my current account, my other (US-)account is currently inactive, but I mustve checked there at some point, because I have a spreadsheet. And ahem, all in all, I have approximately 8700 hours on that game.


Ahem.
Holy... That's enough time to play through every game worth a damn across an entire generation.
 
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