Community MetaSteam | August 2021 - Openness Is Its Superpower

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Dec 5, 2018
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Refunded It Takes Two because it gives my partner motion sickness. Shame as it seemed a fairly decent coop game. There are only a few games she can play without getting sick, first person games are right out. She tried 30mins of Edith Finch and then had to go lie down for an hour. Anyone know ways to combat this sort of stuff? We'd like to play games together but most of them seem to give her issues. Funnily enough she's ok with VR games.
Things that have helped me over the years:
  • Raise the FOV (I'd take a fish eye effect over an overly-narrow camera any day).
  • Having some sort of reticle/cross-hair in the middle of the screen. There are some tools to add them to games that don't have them.
  • Good illumination both in the room and the game (I still remember that I had to make one of the last areas of System Shock 2 super clear or I'd get sick, althought it lost the creepy feeling but it was either that or leave the game unfinished)
I'm probably forgeting something, but those are the things that usually help me
 

Wok

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had to go lie down for an hour. Anyone know ways to combat this sort of stuff?
On top of what curiousBystander wrote:
  • increase the distance between the user and the screen,
  • do not play in the dark, make sure that the room is well-lit,
  • ensure that the frame-rate is high and stable,
  • lower the brightness of the screen,
  • stop playing and look at stuff which are at a long distance,
  • do not play if you are tired,
  • shorten sessions in front of screens,
  • have a walk every hour (or more often that that).
 
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Nabs

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Refunded It Takes Two because it gives my partner motion sickness. Shame as it seemed a fairly decent coop game. There are only a few games she can play without getting sick, first person games are right out. She tried 30mins of Edith Finch and then had to go lie down for an hour. Anyone know ways to combat this sort of stuff? We'd like to play games together but most of them seem to give her issues. Funnily enough she's ok with VR games.
Motion sickness caused by games sucks so bad. I only wish it on a few people. It's crazy how I can play the fastest paced first person game, and yet some slow ass explorathon knocks me on my ass. I hate it.

I checked the steam forums for It Takes Two, and some were complaining about the splitscreen causing their motion sickness. Time to rig up a divider! /s
 

kio

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You can say the same thing for 95% of movies out there. Most of them follow very specific beats.
If you're talking about the 3 act structure then it's true, most, if not all, follow it. It's a tried and true formula that's used since Citizen Kane.
I was talking however about how the story flows, the characters motivations, how the conflict is resolved, etc. The overall why and how is basically the same throughout all movies (at least the ones I've seen). It probably doesn't help that, prior to the whole thing started, I didn't care the slightest about the characters or world or the overall marvel brand and honestly the movies never made me care any more.
There's nothing wrong about liking them but let's not pretend they are evolving the medium in any way. They are the equivalent of a tv sitcom, scratch that mindless fun itch for a bit and move on when it's over.
 

Kiru

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I only ever got motion sickness whenever I played Doom 64. Every time. Must have been the weird combination of 2D with 3D environments and the crappy FOV.

EDIT: After googling it, a lot of people have this problem with that game and seems it could also be caused by the headbob...
 
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Li Kao

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Jan 28, 2019
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Hey, I'm late to the party on the week end topic :confounded-face:

Don't miss cinema, with its high sound volume and potential disturbances. But what I miss is the social experience, it's going to a movies with people you love and discussing it afterwards. In fact it's akin to my vision of love and everything worth a damn in life : the most precious things are not what we see but what we experience through the other's eyes.
...
I'm... a little bit passionate about the whole Plato's androgyn thingy.

So yeah, friends. I miss them.


By the way, the last movie I remember seeing in theater is... LOTR 2 ? :face-with-cold-sweat:

Unless you have sh*t ton of money you can't replicate audio experience from cinema (at least from cinemas where sound is done right). That is why I love going to cinema. Watching Interstellar in cinema and at home on just TV or sound bar is not same experience.
This argument comes back regularly, but even if we would all be able to appreciate high quality sound or pictures, the problem with this is that we don't all live near state of the art cinemas. I mean, I live in a 'big' French city, and last time I've frequented those places regularly, quality can wildly differs from cinema to cinema and maybe even from movie room to movie room.

Whereas my home cinema, as limited as it is these days, is constant.
 

Alexandros

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If you're talking about the 3 act structure then it's true, most, if not all, follow it. It's a tried and true formula that's used since Citizen Kane.
I was talking however about how the story flows, the characters motivations, how the conflict is resolved, etc. The overall why and how is basically the same throughout all movies (at least the ones I've seen). It probably doesn't help that, prior to the whole thing started, I didn't care the slightest about the characters or world or the overall marvel brand and honestly the movies never made me care any more.
There's nothing wrong about liking them but let's not pretend they are evolving the medium in any way. They are the equivalent of a tv sitcom, scratch that mindless fun itch for a bit and move on when it's over.
I am not talking just about structure, I am talking about everything you mentioned. Almost every movie in every genre follows the same basic rules, structure, plot, character arcs and resolution. What is an example of a movie you would consider as not following its genre tropes?
 
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ZKenir

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Personally, I plan on never visiting a cinema again.

Watching films from the comfort of my home is too good to give up, I can wait the 45 days
Same, always hated cinema, my home is more comfortable
 

EdwardTivrusky

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Dec 8, 2018
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RE: Motion Sickness Tips - Things I Do
Most of these are for FPS but some work for Third-Person too.

Disable Head-bobbing
Increase FOV
Disable/Enable Motion Blur
Disable/Adjust Depth of Field
Disable Head-bobbing
Change Crosshair Type
Check Frames - Drop settings to get a stable framerate.

If they fail then I just get some sleep or play something else and try again the next day.
If it's split-screen motion sickness then i'm probably doomed to be honest.
 

ezodagrom

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I think the only recent-ish SEGA games left would be the Judgement series and Sakura Wars and I think neither of those are happening, so perhaps they can dip into Atlus and Vanillaware stuff now.
That is correct, Judgment and Sakura Wars are the only ones left.

God, I hope Atlus and Vanillaware saves us.
Not just Judgment and Sakura Wars left, there's also the Hatsune Miku Project Diva Future Tone (I still want it, even though it's pretty clear that it's not happening). I'd be happy even with just Mega Mix.
 

Le Pertti

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There's nothing wrong about liking them but let's not pretend they are evolving the medium in any way.
Now that is something I can’t really agree on. Sure every movie by themselves is one thing but as a whole with the culmination of Endgame is something I have never seen or experienced in the medium before.

sure you have long running series like Harry Potter and such but it is still not the same.
 
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Mor

Me llamo Willy y no hice la mili, pero vendo Chili
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Not just Judgment and Sakura Wars left, there's also the Hatsune Miku Project Diva Future Tone (I still want it, even though it's pretty clear that it's not happening). I'd be happy even with just Mega Mix.
True, forgot about Miku.
 

Kal1m3r0

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Cinema experience can't be really replaced ,but consider this tip that works with gaming too:
Get an (at least) entry level Hi Fi setup for your TV and position it properly, like this



You need a DAC + Amplifier, 2 speakers, cables and can get good results with about 200€ total shop
If you're used to soundbars or desk speaker you have no idea how much of an improvement it is; Forza Horizon 4 and Sekiro in 4k 60fps with good audio were a blast :steam_pigblanket:
 

kio

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I am not talking just about structure, I am talking about everything you mentioned. Almost every movie in every genre follows the same basic rules, structure, plot, character arcs and resolution. What is an example of a movie you would consider as not following its genre tropes?
You're describing the 3 act structure that I mentioned and that every film, except a select few, follow. Every story needs characters, some sort of issue to solve, some sort of confrontation and a resolution, it's the how the characters and issues are presented and how the whole thing wraps up that's formulaic in the marvel movies. It all boils down to a light vs dark, good vs bad, hero vs villain and that's ultra boring. There's no evolution of storytelling, no character development, no thematic challenge for us as a viewer, no grey middle ground or even a slight hint of some real-world metaphor, it's just "bad guy is bad, good guy good, good must win, the end".
Perhaps it's my fault to expect something greater than what it is, after all it's a product targeted for everyone, especially kids.


Now that is something I can’t really agree on. Sure every movie by themselves is one thing but as a whole with the culmination of Endgame is something I have never seen or experienced in the medium before.

sure you have long running series like Harry Potter and such but it is still not the same.
Yes and no. I agree and understand what you're saying but the most remarkable thing here is marvel's ability to retain the same actors playing the same roles for so many years. They did a smart thing giving complete control to a single guy but, from what I understand, all he had to do was adapt already existing comic book stories.
The whole concept is nothing new, it's done constantly on tv shows, but it was also done before on films, albeit in a different scope and timeframe (The Lord of the Rings).
 

thekeats1999

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kio while a lot of the MCU stuff is like what you say (and I will say that I don't mind as a fan I expect it to be Summer Blockbuster movies) there are a couple of exceptions. Civil War is a film where, even though the villian is captured and incarcerated, the villian wins. It also deals with the fallout of Age of Ultron in a sensible way. All while still using the summer block buster formula.

Infinity War is famous for it's bad guy wins ending and the only thing that lets it down to a certain extent is End Game. But even then End Game has some nice touchs to it that deal with the fall out to something like Infinity War.

I do think they suffer from a formula that they are only now breaking away from. Their overdependance off an origin story, the first Spider-Man film sensibly stays away from the whole origin story. Their over-reliance on things falling out of the sky. The problem that a lot of the time their villians aren't always the most interesting.

However Marvels more interesting stuff I think is in their TV shows. Especially Wandavision. A show that deals surprisingly well with grieving and depression. That only let's itself down by the last episode resorting to standard superheroics. Even the more stand action series Falcon and the Winter Soldier has some fairly decent musings on race and also deals well with the concept of half of the worlds population returning after everybody has moved on with their lives. Plus more Tom Hiddleston in Loki is a good thing.

But hey I am biased I am a comic book fan and Marvel has given me a lot of things I wanted to see on the Big Screen. This does mean I am sometimes blind to the criticisms of the films.

However I will add that Dredd is the single best Comic Book Adaptation ever and I will fight anybody who disagrees. I will probably lose though...
 

Alexandros

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You're describing the 3 act structure that I mentioned and that every film, except a select few, follow. Every story needs characters, some sort of issue to solve, some sort of confrontation and a resolution, it's the how the characters and issues are presented and how the whole thing wraps up that's formulaic in the marvel movies. It all boils down to a light vs dark, good vs bad, hero vs villain and that's ultra boring. There's no evolution of storytelling, no character development, no thematic challenge for us as a viewer, no grey middle ground or even a slight hint of some real-world metaphor, it's just "bad guy is bad, good guy good, good must win, the end".
Perhaps it's my fault to expect something greater than what it is, after all it's a product targeted for everyone, especially kids.
To arrive at the conclusion that every marvel movie is only about light vs dark or hero vs villain you have to strip out everything that provides nuance and complexity and judge based only on the most basic framework that the movie is built around. But if you do that for Marvel movies I think you also have to do this for the movies you are comparing them to. Which movie can't be stripped down to a light vs dark or hero vs villain skeleton? That dichotomy is the basis of all human fiction since the beginning of time.
 
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Li Kao

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Which movie can't be stripped down to a light vs dark or hero vs villain skeleton? That dichotomy is the basis of all human fiction since the beginning of time.
I can see your point about kio oversimplifying, but movies with nuanced characters that are not good or bad, nor light or dark, are not exactly rare.
 
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fantomena

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I only watch certain films in cinema, depends on the movie and how much I wanna watch it. Last was Endgame, next is most likely Dune. After Blade Runner 2049, I need to watch Villenueves films in the cinema if possible.

Im happy I watched BR2049 in cinema because goddamn what a gorgeus movie.
 
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kio

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To arrive at the conclusion that every marvel movie is only about light vs dark or hero vs villain you have to strip out everything that provides nuance and complexity and judge based only on the most basic framework that the movie is built around. But if you do that for Marvel movies I think you also have to do this for the movies you are comparing them to. Which movie can't be stripped down to a light vs dark or hero vs villain skeleton? That dichotomy is the basis of all human fiction since the beginning of time.
The issue doesn't reside in the light vs dark itself, it's a common trope and an effective one that makes it easier to grab the audience and avoids unnecessary lore or story dumps, the issue is when that's all there is to it. I'm not going to pretend to be super well versed in the marvel universe or that I've seen every single movie but from the 4 that I've seen I'm yet to notice anything more complex or nuanced than the hero vs villain framework.
Every great story has some kind of meta message or metaphor for the audience to take away and this is true for movies, books, games, etc, every type of media in existence. Even "dumb action movies" are capable of doing this like Terminator, Matrix or The Dark Knight, just to name a few. The good vs bad framework is there but it's only background for the more important and complex message/story they are trying to convey.
Allow me to try to bring the discussion back on topic with Half Life. The background framework is "just another shooter", similar to what we had at the time like quake or unreal, and yet the final product is so much more. Valve used the framework to elevate the medium, and the FPS genre particularly, by building upon what was pre established. This is why it's regarded as a landmark and an evolution, and why it's a much better game than the ones that followed the preexisting formula.
 

boop beep

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Had the Hexcells games in my library for a good long time, but I only recently got into them properly. Hot dang! Quickly became an all-time favorite of mine. It looks deceptively basic -- Minesweeper on a hexagonal grid! -- but the solutions are so clever, varied and never rely on any guesswork. It also incorporates elements of Picross in it, which I am a total sucker for. Top tier puzzling! If you've been sleeping on these games like I had, definitely give them a chance and make sure to start with the first, because the baseline difficulty seems to scale up with Plus at least.
 

Ge0force

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Dovetail Games finally gets competition in the train sim genre:


Also funny how early access is only on Steam. Epic's money hatting doesn't even get them loyalty from publishers. 😁
 

dex3108

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This argument comes back regularly, but even if we would all be able to appreciate high quality sound or pictures, the problem with this is that we don't all live near state of the art cinemas. I mean, I live in a 'big' French city, and last time I've frequented those places regularly, quality can wildly differs from cinema to cinema and maybe even from movie room to movie room.

Whereas my home cinema, as limited as it is these days, is constant.
That is why i said if they have proper audio. But even without that some things sound better at cinema simply because they can crank up things without getting complaints from neighbors XD

Cinema experience can't be really replaced ,but consider this tip that works with gaming too:
Get an (at least) entry level Hi Fi setup for your TV and position it properly, like this



You need a DAC + Amplifier, 2 speakers, cables and can get good results with about 200€ total shop
If you're used to soundbars or desk speaker you have no idea how much of an improvement it is; Forza Horizon 4 and Sekiro in 4k 60fps with good audio were a blast :steam_pigblanket:
As i said above other part of equation is where you live. In apartments you really can't get full sound experience, especially for lower tones due to neighbors. If you live in house then you can do much more.

I worked few years ago on renovation at our local cinema so i learned a lot from that XD For example walls are 60+cm thick with multiple layers of sound insulation.
 

Stone Ocean

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I've had enough cinema experiences for one lifetime, nowadays I just want movies without overpriced junk food, constricting times, overpriced 3D gimmicks and etcetera. I'll probably invest into a high quality sound setup at some point in my life to have my own movie room, but I'm pretty over paying like 70 bucks total to watch a flick.
 

EdwardTivrusky

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Dec 8, 2018
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The problem with cinema is that there are other people there. :blobrigged:
I was Social Distancing before it was cool.

... in other kinda related news. china limits Online Gaming time for minors to one hour 8pm-9pm at friday, weekends and holidays.

Didn't South Korea just scrap a similar rule, like a few days ago?

Isn't F2P but with MTX and gatcha HUGE in china? So we can't really compare it to over here, well not for us, i'm sure parents have been barraged with F2P MTX riddled kid's games for years. Also, look at the rise of Azur Lane, Princess Connect, Genshin Impact etc recently. I can see similar being brought in in many countries. There's already pushback against gambling companies like Paddy Power who use imagery attractive to young adults and kids like they're training them to normalize gambling from a young age. It's a bit of an extreme accusation but i can see it becoming a problem in future.
 
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Wok

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... in other kinda related news. china limits Online Gaming time for minors to one hour 8pm-9pm at friday, weekends and holidays.
Could this lead to the demise of F2P games?

Tencent said in a recent earnings call that minors only constituted a small portion of its online gaming revenue.
This could indirectly impact revenue. If there are fewer F2P players, then good luck convincing whales to spend money on your "dead" game.
 
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Mivey

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Didn't South Korea just scrap a similar rule, like a few days ago?
I think the key difference is that South Korea is still a democracy with politicians caving to public pressure and outcry.
China can be as draconian as they like about this, there's no civil society that can voice opposition.

What is interesting is how this makes Steam a lot more interesting for young consumers, as this ban doesn't target single player games, and presumably isn't enforced on Steam anyway.
 
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EdwardTivrusky

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Could this lead to the demise of F2P games?
Nah, look at Tencent and Netease. They're moving out of China and into Japan and The West and buying studios etc. They're looking to make AAA games so whether they'll be "legit" or MTX ridden hellholes is something we'll find out in a year or so.

Mivey Well, you can grumble about it in China but they'll just fuck up your Social Credit score and screw you back into silence it seems. After seeing the impact that has had on organised, brigaded trolling and disruption to streamers i watch. the fear of Social Credit being disupted is real over there.
 
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Wok

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@Mivey Well, you can grumble about it in China but they'll just fuck up your Social Credit score and screw you back into silence it seems. After seeing the impact that has had on organised, brigaded trolling and disruption to streamers i watch. the fear of Social Credit being disupted is real over there.
That sounds like a F2P game with 1 billion players, and in-game currency called "Social Credit score". Need to farm some SCs to be allowed to go to the cinema.
 

madjoki

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Fuck Netflix?
 

EdwardTivrusky

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DokeV looks AMAZING, if i was a kid i'd lose my shit over it! ... i'm a grown-ass man tho so it'd be creepy as fuck for me to play it.


I almost posted these the other day, lol.
 
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ExistentialThought

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Fuck Netflix?
Wow, it was barely out for two years.

I wonder if Netflix is reigning in their tie ins for their own plans.
 

manchego obfuscator

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Fuck Netflix?
this is weird, given that the mobile version of the game is part of the gaming trial they're currently running on Android devices in Poland. maybe Netflix is taking over publishing itself, idk

DokeV looks AMAZING, if i was a kid i'd lose my shit over it! ... i'm a grown-ass man tho so it'd be creepy as fuck for me to play it.


I almost posted these the other day, lol.
it looks impressive, sure, but the contrast between the cartoony characters and realistic environments is kinda jarring. could really use more consistent art direction
 
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AHA-Lambda

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Since I have the cinema card, where I pay 20€ per month and I go how much I want in a big selection of Parisian cinemas. So cinema is the main way I watch movies. I go a few times a week and I love it.:)
Ditto but for UK personally. I can see every movie I want for £16 a month.

So I'm able to see any film I want day one for a paltry amount per film (I go to the cinema a lot, like 3-6 times per month) as opposed to waiting 2 months for streaming or paying £10-20 for a premium day 1 digital rental.

Yeah, you can take the cinema experience from my cold dead hands, and that's not coming from some auteur/purist pov, that shit irritates me.
 
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yuraya

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Dokev does look very good but also looks like something that will be shit port with fps all over the place.

Probably for the best to do Early Access with it.

Also hopefully it has a lot of monsters and a decent story to whatever they are going for.
 
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fspm

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The last time in the movies:
assholes that never stop yapping, eternal blablablbablablablalblablalbalblba. Assholes on their phones, clicking sounds, blinding screens in the dark.
There was one piece of shit that was drinking cola or whatever for 1 hour making the sound as if someone was sucking cock very very loudly, no kidding - 1 hour.
So I waste 2 hours for the movie itself, 1,5 hours to get there, money, sanity and for what? To get
TRIGGERED

 

nordschatten

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Refunded It Takes Two because it gives my partner motion sickness. Shame as it seemed a fairly decent coop game. There are only a few games she can play without getting sick, first person games are right out. She tried 30mins of Edith Finch and then had to go lie down for an hour. Anyone know ways to combat this sort of stuff? We'd like to play games together but most of them seem to give her issues. Funnily enough she's ok with VR games.
My partner has the same problem. We played The Witness together and she had a blast solving puzzles, but got motion sick despite everything we tried in terms of reducing it.


I was Social Distancing before it was cool.
same, and I dread the thought of it going away. I hate people being too close to me in crowded places.


The last time in the movies:
assholes that never stop yapping, eternal blablablbablablablalblablalbalblba. Assholes on their phones, clicking sounds, blinding screens in the dark.
There was one piece of shit that was drinking cola or whatever for 1 hour making the sound as if someone was sucking cock very very loudly, no kidding - 1 hour.
So I waste 2 hours for the movie itself, 1,5 hours to get there, money, sanity and for what? To get
TRIGGERED
yeah...Ive had cinema visits like that. Not great.

~
 
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