Community The MetaVerse VR thread (hardware/software/etc, all platforms)

DollEyes

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Apr 17, 2019
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Well, i never thought they'd go VR with L4D. Is it VR only?
Wasn't this someone's nightmare scenario?
I think the last rumour I had seen was that you can play it on keyboard or in VR and play together.


what are some good games to games to get used to smooth locomotion?
 

Alextended

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Community - The MetaVerse VR thread (hardware/software/etc, all platforms) :p


what are some good games to games to get used to smooth locomotion?
Something good yet slow paced like Red Matter or In Death I guess.
 

Alextended

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This is neat, not for entertainment, but cool in that it actually utilizes home grade VR kits/PC rather than some specially manufactured corporate only solution.
Airbus’ VR flight training solution was designed by Captain Shane Carroll, an A320-family pilot and instructor, with his team of professional software developers from the consumer entertainment industry. It will provide portable training with a ‘study & practice tool’ for pilots to train at their home base…or remotely, and is capable of complementing the full flight simulator sessions that are conducted in flight training centres. Imagine training whenever and wherever you want!
 
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Alextended

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This thing is getting an early access release soon, I hadn't seen it but it looks pretty promising, I just spotted their latest progress update.
And yes it is a free locomotion FPS (it's kinda hard to tell from that rad looking trailer - seriously, go to the Steam page to watch it). The developer is also all about optimization and performance given that progress update which is always good to see, it says even the first maps they won't release initially could mostly maintain 90fps with the recommended specs (which aren't insane like other recent VR games with a GTX1080 and i7 or whatever, just a modest i5/Ryzen CPU and 1060/480 GPU) but that newer maps can do even better with more shit going on due to improved methods (which they'll apply to the old stuff for release).
 
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Alextended

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Trailer finally up on youtube for the lazy :p

And Karnage Chronicles got a couple nice updates recently.
 
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ISee

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Boneworks - Rift S 1.5h impressions:

Graphics are nice, everything is detailed, text is sharp, no stutters (so far).
I think the controllers are showing their flaws though. You need to hit really fast in melee combat and there is a small delay between your swings and what you see on screen. It's not bad, and not noticeable when moving around or touching objects. Just during fast swings. But I'm also doing martial arts, so maybe that's the problem? I don't know, not bragging here just trying to give my impressions. I'm also having problems to learn the correct distance that I need to keep from my enemies. It's different in real life, I don't know.
Having to swing fast to do damage is also the biggest problem. I'm afraid to hit something... I wish they'd tune it down a bit.

Locomotion works great for me (free movement + 45° turning). No mayor problems and I'm a 3 weeks VR noob.

Guns feel awesome.

Interactivity is very impressive. This is a love letter to VR, so far.

edit:
And Boneworks is the number one top seller on steam.
 
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Alextended

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I played around two hours myself, still in the tutorial phase. The physics stuff can be unintuitive and janky just as much as they can be cool and exciting.

On Oculus Touch they could have made the neutral hand pose more natural. I'm not sure if the grip trigger on Touch is touch sensitive but they don't detect anything unless you start pressing it so your middle, ring and pinky finger are all open and flat, but they do touch-detect the index trigger so your inder finger is naturally bent quite a bit, and then they also detect if the thumb is up or not, so the neutral pose is just way off when you aren't doing anything. I don't think anybody ever has his fingers flat out when not doing the robot dance or similar so it's really awkward that's the default state regardless of the controller used.

But it's just a visual thing, when it comes to interacting with stuff it works as intended.

Climbing surfaces aren't as convenient as in games that aren’t fully physics driven with just preset intuitive climbing spots (it's not fully freeform in Boneworks either mind, you only properly latch onto specific surfaces like pipes, ladders and other such things). The climbable flat wall surface in particular was annoying as my "back" hand kept going all over the place by, I guess, getting stuck between the physical surface and my physical body as I just tried to move sideways.

Melee weapons aren't as intuitive as in Blade & Sorcery where you have all the same freedom (and many of the same restrictions as they can't go through other physical objects, your hands, body and other weapons etc.) in how you hold and handle and change your grip and throw them and so on. It works well enough, though it also has an annoying wobble for heavier weapons like the mallet, it's a tad overdone.

Firearms handling works well but again something like Onward does it more conveniently, it's snappier yet still realistic with many of the same interactions, from the different grip positions to the offhand steadying and reloading. For example you can take out the magazine of a pistol without pressing an eject button so I kept accidentally grabbing it while trying to grip and steady the pistol (you need to grip it properly, not just steady your one hand on top of the other).

Thankfully I can hold all the rifles and such as I wish, I didn't notice any physical shoulder/stock interaction that would stop me from bringing them too close depending on object/arm length or anything. The physics seem to only come into play when you try to do unnatural moves just to see that you can't, which other games let you do. It's basically just visual and I don't feel it adds anything over games that don't have it, when I play Onward I don't intentionally try to break the animations, I hold the weapons properly just as I do in Boneworks because that's just how weapon handling is natural and efficient.

When holding a long object like a broom with two hands apart however it seemed to restrict certain moves it shouldn't, I was just trying to wave it around and go all ninja and stuff to check out the inverse kinematics but it didn't follow my movements for much of it, as if it thought it would break my arm limits when it shouldn't. The problems of not having full arm/body tracking I suppose but I'm sure it can be improved.

Finally, the way almost every object is fully physics driven leads to more unintended interactions. When you open the drawers of a file cabinet it's almost impossible to not shift the whole cabinet around, the same when opening a cupboard, and basically any other thing. It seems like they should increase the weight of some objects so that you only move them when you persist and intend to do that. not at the slightest touch at the wrong angle. The same for things like tables almost flying off when you just accidentally slightly bump into them.

Basically it seems like a solid jack of all trades but other games have done this or that better (yet not all at once) so they could have taken a look at them to implement things similarly. Maybe it's ambitious to use physics for almost everything as they do but it doesn't necessarily add much to every aspect of it.

I do like the feel of the game so far, I'm not trying to make it sound like it's bad, but I did expect better behavior in some things (and feared worse in others so that’s good). Outside all these minor annoyances and given single player campaigns like this aren't exactly common, it's very exciting as it seems very well designed and very promising overall on that front. I'm sure I'll learn to work around its quirks with practice or maybe just not even care after a given point in the game (ie, bumping into tables felt off at first but maybe I just won't care after doing it x1000).

Again, this seems very good but it's also not the second coming of VR like others proclaim, the first killer app and all that hype. It's another good game, maybe a great one, in a long line of other equally cool VR experiences. I played Stormland again while downloading the game and that still seems pretty damn cool in terms of core gameplay (yeah it's short, repetitive and only does one thing, all out shooting without any deeper interactions, I've criticised that game elsewhere, I just mean the feel of the game, the climbing, the gliding, the weapon handling, it all feels great and exciting still), not like it's suddenly last gen crude stuff, and the same goes for other games like Blade & Sorcery, Onward and whatever else I've enjoyed in the past, there are many others.

Also for me the game keeps hanging on level switching.

Thankfully it also seems to save before that so I can close it, open it, choose continue and select the section it should have loaded when it hanged.
 
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d00d3n

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Jan 26, 2019
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I am trying to learn to drive cars relatively late in life (born 1985), so I have of course turned to simulation exercises on my PC (equipped with the Index and a G29 steering wheel with pedals + shifter gear lever). City Car Driving has a pretty realistic simulation of driving with a manual gearbox + clutch, but the virtual reality experience is very barebones. You are able to look around and the turning of the steering wheel is animated, but all other aspects of the dashboard are unreactive and its gauges are turned off.

Are there any realistic driving simulators out there that work in VR and animate the dashboard, the position of the steering wheel, the gear lever, and the pedals to give an immersive experience?
 

Alextended

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I'm not the only one I guess. Despite my earlier criticisms I still looked forward to the actual campaign but it seems they have misses in their game design too. Most people are still hyping it to hell and back anyway, we'll see, hopefully I'll like it better than that guy overall but the complaints are well explained/written.

Also they've already pushed out a patch mostly to help with WMR user issues so that's nice.
 
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ISee

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Fair review and this seems to be accurate enough as a "conclusion":

Boneworks’ physics-driven gameplay is a double-edged sword. When everything is working, it can be downright magical and offer a rich sense of immersion that few other games achieve. When it isn’t working, it can be a nightmare of clunk and frustration.
Giving the player a mass and a body doesn't seem to be the way. I really think floating hands would have been better here, sounds strange because full body works great in lone echo, but the body is "weightless" and doesn't interfere. Here it is more of a nuisance.
But the ability to interact with everything in the game world, open doors, touch walls, touch enemies, tear off wood panels and a solid physics system is something that needs to be in imo. Like I can hold doors closed and shoot through small cracks, but I can't reload while doing so. It is interesting, to say the least.
But melee combat is bad and I like it less the more I play tbh.

About the game not having many weapons, the story not being great (did we even expect better?) and not everything being super polished. It's a 25€ game, made buy 10 people and maybe they were to ambitious and expectations too big.

I don't know, I'm having more fun with Boneworks than with Robot Recall or Raw Data so far. Fun games, but they turn monotonous real quick and this is already more interesting.
 

Alextended

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Well, I did say Raw Data is a wave/arena type shooter even if possibly the best of the bunch, not exactly much variety in that scheme, sorry if that misled you. I never suggest Robo Recall outside a sale though, it was good for what it is too but also just an arcade shooter, plus I got it for free when registering my Touch.

But again my problems in Boneworks are with the systems and how often they get in the way of both fun and immersion when they're actually meant to do the opposite. I thought the campaign is promising before reading that Road to VR review so hopefully I will like it better than the reviewer but it does sound legit.

The game was always pimped as more than an arena sandbox though, otherwise I'd be making even more comparisons to the far more intuitive even if limited to medieval combat Blade & Sorcery (though there are plenty mods for it that add many more things such as firearms for example if you want to mess around). I don't think anyone expected a story, but nice campaigns don't need much of that, Half-Life barely had any and I liked it more than 2 which had more of it.
 
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fantomena

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I love Boneworks. Great physics and fucking around is exactly what I wanted from it and I think that's what the majority of people wanted too. Having a somewhat long campaign what just a bonus for me.

People looking for a great story with great level design will surely be somewhat dissapointed, but that's not what I cared for in Boneworks.
 
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Durante

Durante

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Well, I did say Raw Data is a wave/arena type shooter even if possibly the best of the bunch, not exactly much variety in that scheme, sorry if that misled you. I never suggest Robo Recall outside a sale though, it was good for what it is too but also just an arcade shooter, plus I got it for free when registering my Touch.
I haven't played Boneworks yet, but from what I read (and tons of time invested in Raw Data) they seem to be on rather opposite ends of the spectrum.

Raw Data is more, to me, the equivalent of an arcade game built from the ground up for VR, where just like an arcade game the focus is on improving your skill at playing the game using a limited but polished set of interaction mechanisms to solve a limit but polished set of (mostly combat, but some movement) challenges.

Boneworks is the equivalent of a sandbox game built from the ground up for VR. Just like with a non-VR sandbox game, it gives you a huge amount of (emergent) options to solve a huge amount of (emergent) gameplay challenges. And as an almost unavoidable result (again, just like with traditional sandbox games) each individual interaction might not be as polished as in a more focused game.

I think these are, to some extent, different design philosophies, and even if two games each succeed very well at their respective philosophy, tradeoffs are inevitable.
 
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ISee

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Well, I did say Raw Data is a wave/arena type shooter even if possibly the best of the bunch, not exactly much variety in that scheme, sorry if that misled you.

I never suggest Robo Recall outside a sale though, it was good for what it is too but also just an arcade shooter, plus I got it for free when registering my Touch.
Attacking or criticizing you was neither my intention nor did I even had you in mind while typing tbh. My apologies if you felt that way.
Raw Data and Robot Recall are solid, arcade experiences and I'd still recommend both of them to train "VR legs" and get a feel for shooting in VR. Just as you said, not at full price. But independent of you or me recommending them, they are rather simplistic in game design. That's just how it is and nobody promised me something else.
But long term I want more than messing around in arenas or sandboxes and I think VR needs to start moving out of this corner sooner then later. Boneworks tries that and deserves a bit more credit because of it imo.
 

Alextended

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Well it's not like it's the first game with a campaign either, you've played others yourself and there are tons more that don't get too much hype because they just weren't too special when all was said and done (ie, the fairly solid Westworld Awakening) but in the end Boneworks maybe isn't the 2nd coming it was hyped to be either. Probably the first that tries to incorporate all these elements at once though (which may not have been the best idea either, ie, why have all those Blade & Sorcery-like physics for melee combat when the game itself doesn't present adversaries that utilize it as in that game but is mostly an FPS). I don't really care for the price too much. It's nice when stuff are cheap but I always get a game because it's cool/interesting/whatever else first, not cheap.

Edit: well, I'm too negative preemptively, again, maybe I'll like it more than that guy, though I already agree with (and have more of) his systems criticism. It reminds me of Holoception, that looked cool when a developer showed it off as well, but upon release I had many of the same issues, physics over playability. But at least that one is in early access and is constantly improving since, I think they'll hopefully get to a very good level once it's all done.
 
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C-Dub

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From the sounds of it, Boneworks might be the action game I hoped Stormland was going to be. Obviously they are very different games, but Stormland just feels so lifeless, has bullet sponge enemies and a super boring quest/progression structure. Whereas Boneworks feels like a really immersive title that you'll be thinking about when you're not playing it.
 

Alextended

Segata's Disciple
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It's possible, personally I played Stormland again while waiting for Boneworks to finish downloading last night and it was more fun than that was afterwards. I criticized all the issues I had with Stormland here, but still, it's provided more fun than most VR games for me. I don't think any enemies were too bullet spongy, even the (too rare!) big baddies, were you upgrading and using your specials? I'm on post-game escalation level 1 and they still go down satisfyingly before even getting level 5 guns. A few quick short range shotgun blasts after overheating or stunning the big ones is enough to bring them down. The rifles (sniper or otherwise) make short work of the normal enemies with well placed headshots. Etc. I dunno, if anything I thought enemies were too easy to put down at times.
 
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ISee

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The funny thing is: I'm not even immersed in Boneworks unlike in Lone Echo for example. I'm fully aware that I'm in a game in both of them, but I feel like an actor in Lone Echo and like playing a normal game in Boneworks. But that's also in part because of Boneworks art design.
And do not get me wrong: Lone Echo is the better game, no doubts.
But as you said: Boneworks is fusing a lot of things that belong together like bread and butter. Good Combat needs good level design. Good level design needs a campaign that holds everything together. A Campaign needs a story to make sense and last but not least VR needs a "physical" game world.
And I'm not saying that Boneworks has good level design or a good story. But it is mixing all those elements that need to be present in an action VR game.
Lone Echo does the same. "physical" world, levels, puzzles, story, a campaign. It has no combat, but it's also not an action game.

I'm also not saying that everything needs to be like that. But I recently looked at Blade&Sorcery and it seems to be a well done melee combat game, where you fight stuff in an arena and all I thought was: Couldn't this be more like Arx Fatalis, at least like Stonekeep where I'm exploring a dungeon with several levels, traps and co.?

And inb4: I'm not "shit talking" Blade & Sorcery, I'm certain it's great. I also understand the problem of game development being expansive, the risk being high, the target audience small etc. But that's one of the reasons why I appreciate a 25€ game, made by 10 people that tries to be more than cool physics in an arena. Maybe I'm too forgiving, I don't know. But I'm also surprised about all the harsh reactions the game is getting tbh.
 

Alextended

Segata's Disciple
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Well I mostly mentioned Blade & Sorcery because fantomena was talking about how he felt the game was more about the sandbox messing around aspects and agreed with complaints about the campaign and level design and all that stuff. Obviously it's not really an alternative to all of what Boneworks tries to do.

I don't see harsh reactions, most people seem to love it, Road to VR's review was the first I saw with such criticism that agreed with some of my issues with it.

86% positive on Steam so far.

And yes a full length anything kind of game with Blade & Sorcery's combat would be rad, my first reaction was to wish the guy marries In Death's developer to at least get a roguelite sequel for both in one, maybe it wouldn't be a sweet hand-designed campaign but it would essentially make it a roguelite VR Souls, lol. It just sucks that a game now does try to provide more but it's like the developers didn't play all these other games that do this or that better to get ideas. Just like I criticize something like Asgard's Wrath for the same reason as with it being a fantasy RPG it really should have looked at how Blade & Sorcery does its combat and other games for ideas too, then we could have had something closer to your vision of an Arx Fatalis with Blade & Sorcery's systems.
 
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ISee

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Please, I'm really not shit talking blade and sorcery. I'm interested myself and will eventually buy it.
I wish it was "bigger" than it seems to be though.
 

Alextended

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New EmuVR update.

Lots of improvements and neat stuff such as being able to set lightgun offset and also a button press to apply when you point the gun up or down, so you can for example put the Time Crisis "cover" button on a gesture like that rather than a button press.
- New season: Winter.
  • Snow.
  • Christmas tree and lights outside.
  • New light gun settings:
  • Custom alignment offset.]
  • Haptic feedback when shooting.
  • One-handed mode.
  • Customize action when pressing or releasing grip. (E.g. spin gun, press Aux A, reload, do nothing; Or release grip to spin and grab to stop, recommended for Index controllers)
  • Custom button press when pointing up or down. (E.g. press Aux A, useful to simulate the foot pedal in Time Crisis by just pointing up; Or trigger a reload by pointing down in Area 51 without needing to shoot off-screen)
  • Update Unity version to 2018.4.12
  • Fix performance issues for some AMD and i7 CPU users.
  • Fix not being able to reload in MAME and 3DO light gun games. - New files allowing to setup SteamVR bindings for Index and WMR controllers even when offline (just in case Valve kills all community bindings for all games again).
  • Fix light gun Aux A button still being triggered when pressing Aux B (for real this time).
  • Fix crosshair appearing after each light gun shot after a recent Beetle/Mednafen PSX core update (if you see that, update this core to fix it).
  • Fix Sega Master System light gun input.
  • Fix Picodrive not being available for Sega CD games in Game Scanner.
  • Fix Retroarch crashing if you swapp discs using the menu.
  • Fix keyboard/mouse special input focus mode not being properly set when starting a keyboard/mouse game.
  • Discard old "retroarch\config" EmuVR override files to instead use our new "auto override" method, making it easier for users to setup their own core overrides, along with our new "console folder custom overrides".
  • Store separate resolution values for fullscreen vs windowed modes.
  • You can now resize and maximize the window. Maximized state and window size are also saved automatically.
  • New experimental setting for "exclusive fullscreen" mode. (Add an "e" to your resolution in settings.ini, like this: fs_res = "1920x1080e" . Might be unstable, be careful.)
  • New experimental setting to force VSync on or off. (In settings.ini, vsync = "1" forces ON, "-1" forces OFF)
  • Obsolete cores cleaned, added a new core to Game Scanner: dhewm3 (Doom 3)
 
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Alextended

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With tonight’s update, we’re also introducing 360° and 90° levels—custom engineered gameplay modes that open up the playing field and radically change the game. We’ve got dozens of 360° and 90° levels available on both Oculus Quest and the Rift Platform, with more to come in the months ahead. They span all five difficulty settings and are free when you own the corresponding music pack.
 
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Alextended

Segata's Disciple
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Sorry to the recent buyers of these I guess.

Also missed posting about this trippy thing (I think).

And Quest keeps buzzing. I'm more surprised by Apex Construct given how much later Quest came, I guess mixed reviews sadly put a damper on it on Steam.
 
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Alextended

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Budget Cuts 2 releasing on VGA day was a mistake I guess. Only 11 user reviews so far on Steam and 8 on the Oculus Store (normally Steam reviews should be far more numerous by a wide margin, except for the Oculus Quest versions of certain games that trash Steam). I hope it picks up attention/pace next week :(

This looks good too.

The non VR version has good reviews so it's promising but even though it says it supports the tracked motion controllers for VR the trailer doesn't show any hand interactions so it could be a pretty barebones VR version with basically just button inputs and head tracking implemented which would be a bummer.

OhShape got out of early access too.
 
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Flips

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The non VR version has good reviews so it's promising but even though it says it supports the tracked motion controllers for VR the trailer doesn't show any hand interactions so it could be a pretty barebones VR version with basically just button inputs and head tracking implemented which would be a bummer.
Kinda wish they would at least offer a discount for people who already own the non-VR version. My thoughts on the original:
Not a great game but good enough for a rainy Sunday afternoon. It looks good and is pretty straight forward in regards to puzzles. The audio logs play an integral part in telling the story and are thankfully easy to find. Speaking of the story: I liked it well enough even though some might argue that it's a bit generic and the twist is kinda obvious. Picking up notes to read them didn't always work as intended, so you had to use your zoom.

It's definitely not worth the full 15€ but if you enjoy space and sci-fi stuff and see it on sale for <5€, go for it.
 
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Alextended

Segata's Disciple
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Yeah, especially if it's so barebones (unless that's just because they have the same trailer as non VR version, idk) it should be free to owners really.
 
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Alextended

Segata's Disciple
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Nice Vengeful Rites dev update yet again. This guy's doing wonderful work, game's already pretty damn fun and keeps getting better. You can tell how intuitive his systems are by just watching him play. Note that's obviously a testing area, not part of the game.

I've only stopped playing it to jump back in when it stabilizes quality/feature wise so that I don't feel I got through parts of it in a less than ideal way and stuff.
 
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Flips

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Finished Budget Cuts and have mixed feelings about it.

Killing robots (or avoiding them) is fun - at first. You basically just have throwing knives and scissors which gets a bit boring and when you kill a robot for the 20th time by sneaking up to him and ramming a knife in its head, it just isn't as satisfying as the first time. I also had some problems with the throwing itself and ended up using them in close combat. Just wished there were more weapons, especially a solid ranged option. The sequel seems to have added more weapon variety at least.

The game doesn't offer any locomotive movement options, just teleporting. But the teleporting is quite well done and definitely adds to the game experience. And it makes being stealthy easier.

Now to the part which I liked the least: the puzzles. The game doesn't give you a lot of help and sometimes you just get stuck because it's not clear what is required to proceed. I never fully knew what I was expected to do and most of the time just got lucky. But sometimes even knowing what the game does expect of you won't help because you may have missed a small detail and are stuck. Admittedly, this just happened once and I solved it by looking it up because I was 100% sure I had a game-breaking bug right before the end of the game...

Overall, I still recommend the game even though it has some annoying parts since I've still enjoyed my time with it for the most part. I bought it on sale, though. Not sure if I'd still recommend it without a discount.