Community MetaSteam | November 2019 - You Can't Spell Steam Without EA

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Alextended

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Oculus making Link just for HLVR makes little sense when they have tons of their own PC only stuff they would like Quest owners to play if they have a PC, like Stormland. It also makes little sense if it's to "move units" when they also have a PC VR kit to sell at the same price range as Quest (and which Quest Link kind of makes redundant if most people won't understand/see the difference with the 72 vs 80 hz and potential control input lag/streaming artifacts or whatever). It's more likely they saw there's demand for such a thing thanks to the fan made applications allowing Link to work with Steam VR content and they figured they might as well get in on that and at the same time (hopefully) do it better rather than misrepresent PC VR to Quest owners with less than ideal homebrew apps.
 
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CommodoreKong

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As far as I know "Valve News Network" is just a guy on Youtube speculating.
pretty much this, yeah
Here's what a verified former Valve employee said about Tyler/Valve News Network:

Everything you need to know about the next Half Life game: Half Life VR - ValveNewsNetwork (RUMOR)
For better or worse, Tyler (often, and in this case) does know what he's talking about.
FinalFlame has also been hinting at HLVR perhaps being linked to some bigger project in Valve, perhaps it could be this Streaming platform. No idea how long ago they were at Valve though so things could have changed.
 

MJunioR

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Mar 13, 2019
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Sometimes I want to feel bad or go all in for VNN and his predictions (I mean, look at this), after all the guy is really dedicated to all things Valve but then he posts a super clickbaity video and remembers me that nah.
 
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fantomena

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Oculus making Link just for HLVR makes little sense when they have tons of their own PC only stuff they would like Quest owners to play if they have a PC, like Stormland. It also makes little sense if it's to "move units" rather than for existing users when they also have a PC VR kit to sell at the same price range as Quest. I think it's more likely it wasn't even planned but they saw the demand is there from fan made stuff like ALVR.
Tyler never stated "just for HLVR", but it was part of the decision making. If Valve releases HLVR and it's the best VR game yet then surely Oculus/FB wants Quest owners to be able to play the game to and not just Rift/Rift S owners. Valve already gave their roomscale technology to Oculus years ago so they do have some sort of "friendship".

Quest owners being able to play HLVR = Win for Oculus so they get to be part of it and win for Valve so they sell more copies and earn more money (it will be sold on Steam, not Oculus Store).

I own a Rift and buy all my VR games on Steam (as long as the Steam version supports the Rift, which is rare when it does not). Valve won't have any problems of letting Quest owners play HLVR.
 

yuraya

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then i don't give a fuck ... i don't have a headset and i can't afford one (or even have enough space in my room if i could)

shame :(
Seriously Valve is crazy if they do this.

Like do they just expect me to drop a grand on new VR hardware? And I don't have any room for it at my place.

And what if the game is actually some groundbreaking masterpiece like HL2?

Fucking hell :mad:
 
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Alextended

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Valve already gave their roomscale technology to Oculus years ago so they do have some sort of "friendship".
When did that happen, I completely missed it. I don't see many similarities with Valve's lighthouse tracking in any of the Oculus implementations so far.
 

fantomena

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When did that happen, I completely missed it.

Unless I misread that post. Krejlooc is very knowledgable when it comes to VR stuff.
Like do they just expect me to drop a grand on new VR hardware?

Fucking hell :mad:
Or you can buy a Rift S for 400$ or an original Rift for less (if you can find it).

Or a VIVE.

You thought Valve poured millions into VR and the Index just for shits and giggles?
 
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Alextended

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Unless I misread that post. Krejlooc is very knowledgable when it comes to VR stuff.
Is that the only existing source? I could see Valve giving it for free but not in a way that doesn't give them any recognition whatsoever like that.
 

CommodoreKong

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Sometimes I want to feel bad or go all in for VNN and his predictions (I mean, look at this), after all the guy is really dedicated to all things Valve but then he posts a super clickbaity video and remembers me that nah.
I can't blame the guy for using clickbaity youtube video titles, I'm sure those do far better than more normal names. The guy makes a living through VNN, getting as much Youtube ad revenue/twitch donations is just something he has to do.
 

fantomena

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Is that the only existing source? I could see Valve giving it for free but not in a way that doesn't give them any recognition whatsoever like that.
From what Ive read through the years, Valve is very open about other companies being free to use some of the technologies they have made. I guess that's why Epic is allowed to have VR games on their store with SteamVR.
 

yuraya

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Or you can buy a Rift S for 400$ or an original Rift for less (if you can find it).

Or a VIVE.

You thought Valve poured millions into VR and the Index just for shits and giggles?

I didn't expect them to release a new VR only Half-Life game..no.

Who would have seriously expected them to do that? Even in some fantasy scenario I would expect them to make a new M/KB Half-Life game with some additional VR component...not like this no wtf.

And I am definitely not buying some third party VR tech when Valve made their own dedicated tech for wtvr this game would wind up being. Even if it is cheaper its not worth it. Probably better to buy it..play the game and resell all the stuff right after I am done with it. Even then this would all be ridiculous and piss off so many people.
 

Kuro

"Oh yeah? Aren't you gonna punish me?"
Dec 22, 2018
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Would be swell if Valve pushed VR that far to actually release Half-Life title for the platform, but sounds unrealistic to me.
If true though I'll buy it.
 

fantomena

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People being pissed off and VR is something I see.

People don't like VR or want it due to the lack of AAA games.

But when a AAA VR game is out people are pissed it's also not playable in non-VR.

Can I understand why people would be pissed about a Half-Life VR exclusive game? Yes.

Yet this is not Half-Life 3. This is a prequel (the rumors say) with another story and Valve has poured millions into VR and has made their own VR headset yet you can still play the game on cheaper competitor's headsets.

It's a VR game which is not a HL sequel. People don't need to play it if they care about what happened after HL2Episode2.

It's an optional game which people with VR can play and that can drive VR headset purchases.
 

Arsene

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Who would have seriously expected them to do that? Even in some fantasy scenario I would expect them to make a new M/KB Half-Life game with some additional VR component...not like this no wtf.
A lot of people. Its not like they were exactly subtle about it either, HLVR has been leaking for years now.
 
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Alextended

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Half-Life or not they have high production value VR game(s) in the pipeline, and they haven't had one like that in a while anywhere so it's equally important. VR is great tech for gaming and otherwise, maybe it can be relatively pricy but it allows gaming to expand in more ways than even the mouse did. Were people pissed off when FPS games started requiring mice? Or dedicated graphics cards for yet another PC component you had to buy? Probably. They got over it.

Anyone pissed off at any specific game for being in VR is simply missing out on tons more by virtue of not even looking into what's getting released.
 
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lashman

lashman

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So glad to hear this, I mean I love Terraria, but playing something different with a similar look sounds pretty intriguing! :awwblob:
you're welcome! :)

Seriously Valve is crazy if they do this.

Like do they just expect me to drop a grand on new VR hardware? And I don't have any room for it at my place.

And what if the game is actually some groundbreaking masterpiece like HL2?

Fucking hell :mad:
that's pretty much where i'm at as well, yup
 
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Amzin

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I didn't expect them to release a new VR only Half-Life game..no.

Who would have seriously expected them to do that? Even in some fantasy scenario I would expect them to make a new M/KB Half-Life game with some additional VR component...not like this no wtf.

And I am definitely not buying some third party VR tech when Valve made their own dedicated tech for wtvr this game would wind up being. Even if it is cheaper its not worth it. Probably better to buy it..play the game and resell all the stuff right after I am done with it. Even then this would all be ridiculous and piss off so many people.
That's not really how VR hardware works. The Index is arguably the most polished headset out there, but almost all VR headsets work with almost all Steam VR games. And the ones that don't by default you can sort of force with some 3rd party software. The Index is great for what it is but it is no where near the "main" VR hardware, that'd be like saying Porsche are what most commuters drive.
 

Kuro

"Oh yeah? Aren't you gonna punish me?"
Dec 22, 2018
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I hope they actually do high budget VR game, so much untapped potential and Valve has shown in past they got it in them to make great innovative games.
 

Alextended

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That's not really how VR hardware works. The Index is arguably the most polished headset out there, but almost all VR headsets work with almost all Steam VR games. And the ones that don't by default you can sort of force with some 3rd party software. The Index is great for what it is but it is no where near the "main" VR hardware, that'd be like saying Porsche are what most commuters drive.
Steam hardware surveys show Oculus has like 50% VR market share, then follows HTC with like 35, then the rest. Index will take a long time to gain a significant cut with that (justified) price. Now Aperture Hand Lab is unplayable with other sets (I know they added mappings for other devices but I'm not sure how well that even works or if you can do the rock paper scissors stuff) but it's a free tech demo of Index essentially. The Lab on the other hand works with any devices. I too don't think they'll lock all those users out of any VR game they're developing. If they wanted to push their technology at all costs SteamVR would have never gained full support for other products which could have pushed some buyers to not go for Oculus over Vive and could now just upgrade to Index controllers.

Those pissed off for Half-Life VR might as well instead praise VR for actually inspiring Valve developers to finally get off their ass and make another one of those already, lol. And start checking out all the other great VR games out there, released and upcoming, to better justify the purchase (not necessarily Index just like you don't buy a Titan GPU or Elite console controllers or the most expensive mouse and mechanical keyboard money can buy). Otherwise it's their loss.
 
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Arsene

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I hope they actually do high budget VR game, so much untapped potential and Valve has shown in past they got it in them to make great innovative games.
They have 3 confirmed "real" games in development for VR. (unknown if they're exclusive or not) with a flagship title originally scheduled for release this year (but I guess thats not happening now lol).

HLVR's leaks seem to point to it being the flagship (duh, its half life of course it'd be their flagship) but there's been no word on if the other 2 titles are high budget large scale titles like HLVR or smaller side projects.
 
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fantomena

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That's not really how VR hardware works. The Index is arguably the most polished headset out there, but almost all VR headsets work with almost all Steam VR games. And the ones that don't by default you can sort of force with some 3rd party software. The Index is great for what it is but it is no where near the "main" VR hardware, that'd be like saying Porsche are what most commuters drive.
I own a Rift. Never have had any problems with SteamVR, it works so good I don't even buy games from Oculus Store (unless they are Oculus exclusives).

As long as the store pages says "Oculus Rift" under supported headsets it's all good. Even when it does not it's still playable, but might require some tinkering or it has bad performance or something. There are even games on Steam that only (officially) supports the Rift, like Dirt Rally:

 

Amzin

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I mean I own an Odyssey+ I got for $250, it works fine for everything so far and requires 0 room setup. Beat Saber, Until You Fall, Scanner Sombre, I'll be getting Pistol Whip tomorrow which I expect to work great.

I get being annoyed that they would release a non-HL3 HL game and for VR but it is what it is, and there's no reason to believe it would require $1,000 piece of hardware. There are places you can go and play VR sets for a time for a fee (like gaming cafes). There will be let's plays all over. HL2 was a competent FPS but I don't think the mechanics of the game are why people wanted HL3 and certainly here in a random unknown prequel it doesn't seem like it'd be a big miss to not have another competent M+KB FPS on the market.
 
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Line

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Some thoughts on Sword Art Online Hollow Realization (the more "up to date" action RPG of the franchise)... it's not good.
It barely has a story, and it's super rehashed... on top of all of the character interactions that you will be spammed with (seen the anime? it's pretty much more of the same cliché dialogues with absolutely zero point to listen to if you know who those bozos are). So yeah, it talks a lot, doesn't mean that it's interesting.
And then it doesn't talk for hours! Because the level design is trash, so you just plow through huuuge levels, copy/pasted small instances with your faraway objective to follow. It takes ages to go from point A to point B, especially considering that you need to do a decent amount of events to get XP and loot (else it's MMO time, stay slightly too low level and you take crushing damage and can't pierce ennemies so you are 100% useless).
And of course, it's a Vita game, it's fucking hideous.

But where the game really falters is in gameplay department, you have tons of different weapons... and it's unbalanced, but the big issue is the lack of active skills. You barely have any abilities for each weapon, and you'll get pretty much all of your weapon unlocked in a few hours.
Now you can combo... which means doing more DPS with less downtime, because otherwise you just spam the same animations over and over and over.
There's no depth of any sort, just spam. But use some short buffs before a fight, don't hope for good shortcuts like FFXIV though, get used to B, direction+B, double tap direction+B, and circle pad+B! Using different buttons was impossible I assume. But hey, you can also use select and navigate your menu of skills and items mid fight too, animations are long enough to do it... nothing better than opening a menu instead of having tons of shortcuts. The developers need some sort of ARPG crash course, I think. Maybe play A Tales of game from twenty years ago, where they don't have such issues.

Also you can't really change weapons, as proficiency means that you will be way, way behind in damage if you decide to do something else.

Is the game good?
No.
Is the game fun?
No.
Is it worth it for fans?
Hell no.

So... I don't really see anything else to say rather than "avoid because it sucks all around".

And now I'm playing Fatal Bullet!
And despite being more recent, and running on UE4, it might be worse in almost every way.
I'll post my thoughts later but first thing of note: it's the worst feeling shlooter I have ever played. Borderlands and Tom Clancy Ubivision are incredible compared to it. And I consider those games to be absolute trash, THE models not to follow to have fun gunplay, with the shittiest sound design and visual feedback that I could think of. Until Fatal Bullet that is, because holy shit, I found better gunplay in the steam alien clicker last Christmas.
 

BernardoOne

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I didn't expect them to release a new VR only Half-Life game..no.

Who would have seriously expected them to do that? Even in some fantasy scenario I would expect them to make a new M/KB Half-Life game with some additional VR component...not like this no wtf.

And I am definitely not buying some third party VR tech when Valve made their own dedicated tech for wtvr this game would wind up being. Even if it is cheaper its not worth it. Probably better to buy it..play the game and resell all the stuff right after I am done with it. Even then this would all be ridiculous and piss off so many people.
Everyone who has actually been following all their development through the years? We've known for quite a while they are working on several VR games, all while continously developing the most advanced VR API in the business and making amazing improvements each year. And of course, they're not dong it just for some shitty optional VR mode. The best VR games are the ones designed from the ground up to be so. You can't remove VR from them, they are integral to the base design.

You don't need to drop a grand either. Valve specifically designed their VR API to work with just about every VR headset in the market.
 
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Alextended

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For the Americans I bet there will be some sweet VR deals the coming Black Friday (for things available in retail). I'd jump on a $350 or less Rift S/Quest for sure.
 
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PossiblyPudding

sometimes a doctor of rhythm
Apr 17, 2019
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All this talk of VR makes me want a headset so bad.. but sadly I've got to put that money into another monitor. The one I bought as a birthday gift for myself died a few days ago. :crying-face:

So I might just splurge on an LG OLED once my refund goes through and after another paycheck or two. Ugh.. I should really be smarter with money.. but that day is not today! :LOL:
 

Taborcarn

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Some thoughts on Sword Art Online Hollow Realization

Yup you summed up my feeling on this game pretty well. I couldn't bring myself to finish it.
I especially disliked the quest type where you have to go talk to a companion... then in dialogue they tell you about this fun side adventure you're doing. Oof, ahh, get the treasure, watch out for the troll! -- Quest Over

No game, don't describe the quest for me, let me do the quest! Can't be worse than just killing random crap on the overworld.
 

Li Kao

It’s a strange world. Let’s keep it that way.
Jan 28, 2019
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Hmm, I will have to budget an Index along with an high end 3d card and a good 2k 120 hz monitor.
...
Oh, I think I saw my wallet self immolate just now.

It’s nice to want things I guess.
 
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PossiblyPudding

sometimes a doctor of rhythm
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Hmm, I will have to budget an Index along with an high end 3d card and a good 2k 120 hz monitor.
...
Oh, I think I saw my wallet self immolate just now.

It’s nice to want things I guess.
I fear my wallet will become sentient and slap me across the face one of these days then show me that one Jordan gif.

 
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PC-tan

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When did that happen, I completely missed it. I don't see many similarities with Valve's lighthouse tracking in any of the Oculus implementations so far.
This was from before that. The whole reason that Facebook even purchased Oculus was because of the tech that Valve was giving Oculus. The Valve team liked Oculus and even if the Kickstarter you see people like Gabe saying that they think Oculus will be a big game changer.

Then there was the "Room" that is what made Facebook buy Oculus? In the end Facebook wanted to also buy out Valve because they were the other part of the equation of what made the Oculus where it was at that point. Valve said no but Facebook came around with a big check to who would ever leave Valve and world for Facebook.

Funny enough I don't think any of those people even work for Facebook/Oculus anymore and even the original Oculus devs have left Facebook as well.


At least this is what I have read multiple times. Valve giving out tech makes sense and they have done stuff like this. I mean with AR they did the same thing, they let their AR team keep their tech after they left Valve (normally other companies would prevent that and even sue in some cases, like Zenimax did with Oculus. I can't recall if Valve was also sued as well but I think Oculus/Facebook/Samsung were sued though)


Here's what a verified former Valve employee said about Tyler/Valve News Network:

Everything you need to know about the next Half Life game: Half Life VR - ValveNewsNetwork (RUMOR)


FinalFlame has also been hinting at HLVR perhaps being linked to some bigger project in Valve, perhaps it could be this Streaming platform. No idea how long ago they were at Valve though so things could have changed.
I think FinalFlame said that they left Valve in 2017 (2016 maybe?) But from what I recall they did not leave that long ago. So they were still at Valve within the last 5 years at least and that was the period in which Valve was already doing VR stuff and also when they were working on the new Steam library as well.


I've noticed that some people mention how it would be crazy for Valve to just release HLVR without much marketing. But I mean is it that unusual?

I mean people say that Valve has been doing nothing for the last 8 years or so but they have managed to get by. They have release a number of different features and things and a lot of that has been done without the need of spending millions of dollars on marketing like other companies and the money they save from doing that they can spend on making the game better.

As I have pointed out multiple times what "marketing" does Valve do? It's one of their greatest strengthes and greatest weakness. People that are already in the Steam echo system potentially have access to what Valve is doing and sort of know about it. And even then the most Valve has to do is send a few press releases and hold an event to show something off.

Look at the Valve index, it is by far one of the best VR headset, way better than the PSVR, HTC Vive, and the Oculus Rift and it cost way more than those headsets. How much has Valve spent on marketing the thing? Probably not nearly as much as Sony, HTC or Facebook has (hell from reviews it seems like the Vive Cosmos is not that good and that probably got more marketing compared to the Index, I think some people even called the index the Vive Index at one point) but in the end it's still selling, people are buying the HMD.





I am not actually sure any more if HTC did so some sort of ad for the Cosmo. As for the index I didn't see any official video by Valve for it and the only official videos for it are on Steam. Either way I think people get the idea.

As I'm sure you are also aware the Index is not available everywhere, in places like Japan and Canada (and other places) you can't buy the device officially but yet some people are still importing the device. In Japan people that use VRChart are among the ones that are trying to but the Index and Index controllers and in Canada you do have people like Linus S. with one (and he likes it). So without spending many months spending millions of dollars, in marketing,Valve was able to generate interest in their product)

I think I was going to say some other things but this is the general gist of it. So if they are willing to do with with hardware that cost them a tone of money will they not also maybe do something similar with software?

Things like CSGO and DotA 2 after all of these years are still popular but I don't see Valve spending a lot of time (outside of eSport events) advertising these games. They are active talking with the community that are playing these games it seems but they don't seem to be trying to actively trying to get new players into the game. As a comparison of you have been on YouTube you more than likely have seen a League of Leagues ad (if not multiple by different people) with in the last 2 years? And I think some others have also done with with their games (games as a live service) but I don't think I have seen something like that for a Valve game.

Steam is all the advertising that they need.
 
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Mor

Me llamo Willy y no hice la mili, pero vendo Chili
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Why is that ?
HL anniversary, November makes sense for an announcement as it lines-up with other Valve announcements in the past and it gives them time to present a complete line of things to do such as (bundles, promotion and so...) until release in Q1 2020 (yes, I don't think it's releasing in 2019 at all, too soon)
 

fantomena

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I think the only reason HTC succeeded with the VIVE is Valve. With the Index and VIVE Cosmos, their split started and the Cosmos has a number of issues, one of them is that the tracking is apparently really bad (but HTC tries to make it better with software updates).

VR Oasis talks about it here (05:02 if timestamp doesnt' work):


Overall the Cosmos lack a lot of support. Not even HTCs own Viveport fully supports the Cosmos.
 
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Theswweet

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Really happy to hear that OC'd Vega 56 is good for 1440p/60FPS high settings in RDR2. That'll be something to grab next month for sure!
 

Arulan

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I don't know why anyone would expect the next Half-Life to be anything but VR-only. Valve's previous incarnations of a new Half-Life didn't meet their standards or just never got far enough in development, and the obvious reason for developing it now is because VR allows for unique and fascinating forms of play, not to mention their interests in seeing VR succeed. Furthermore, a game that will surely push the envelope for VR design will likely doing things that just won't translate back to traditional play, or would compromise both versions as a result. There aren't many (I can't think of any at the moment) examples of VR-to-traditional ports, but there are many going the other way. The results are usually terrible for a reason. VR requires a different design language.
 
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Routa

Non-Stop MMO Searcher
Dec 22, 2018
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I purchased Mo Astray on an impulse, and am I glad I did.

I think I'm about 50% through the game based on chapter count, but what a fantastic experience so far. The platforming feels great, real fine assortment of puzzles so far and the bosses have been a highlight both in terms of their presentation and mechanics. Everyone should really check this one out.

It seems to be a real shame that it has gotten next to zero media coverage even though the Steam reviews are glowing.

 

Knurek

OG old coot
Oct 16, 2018
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I purchased Mo Astray on an impulse, and am I glad I did.

I think I'm about 50% through the game based on chapter count, but what a fantastic experience so far. The platforming feels great, real fine assortment of puzzles so far and the bosses have been a highlight both in terms of their presentation and mechanics. Everyone should really check this one out.

It seems to be a real shame that it has gotten next to zero media coverage even though the Steam reviews are glowing.

Wait, Rayark on Steam?
Deemo/Cytus/VOEZ when?
 
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RionaaM

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Half-Life or not they have high production value VR game(s) in the pipeline, and they haven't had one like that in a while anywhere so it's equally important. VR is great tech for gaming and otherwise, maybe it can be relatively pricy but it allows gaming to expand in more ways than even the mouse did. Were people pissed off when FPS games started requiring mice? Or dedicated graphics cards for yet another PC component you had to buy? Probably. They got over it.

Anyone pissed off at any specific game for being in VR is simply missing out on tons more by virtue of not even looking into what's getting released.
I'm pissed off at not being able to play this new game because Valve refuses to sell me an Index. Not only they don't ship to my country, but I can't even buy it from here and ask for it to be shipped somewhere else. Maybe some of the people who can't get over it aren't privileged enough to live in a country with access to this new technology, let alone have the money to buy it in the first place.
 
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