Community MetaSteam | August 2021 - Openness Is Its Superpower

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Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
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From a project management standpoint, lets just look at the fact that they have consistently missed all the proposed release dates for the final product. What year was Squadron 42 supposed to be released in again? Have they even announced a new date, or has that conveniently disappeared?

I would not call the project a scam as some do, but it is a perpetual money-making machine, where there really is no reason to actually finish the product as long as their customers are willing to give them more money during development.

A product is definitely being made, but in the most convoluted way possible.
Invent new tech for everything. Why? Because!

And the most invested backers defend the project with the same parroted excuses that were used 3-5 years ago! "Server-sharding is not in yet!" Etc.

The project is a grade A example of why it might be good to have external product owners who actually set their foot down and demand deliverables at a reasonable pace, or elsefeatures must be cut. Like publisher do in the gaming world for example.




But I know that it doesn't really matter what I say, because I am not changing anyone's mind regarding the matter.

So in the meantime, I enjoy watching the spectacle unfold from a distance, reading about the wacky hijinks of Roberts and co a few times a year.
The problem is that the final product in every instance of deadline was subject to change. First the funding explosion, then complexities as they expanded. From a project management standpoint, I would say that they are doing awesome. They are shipping patches every quarter and have done so for more than 3 years now, after moving to this format. If you know anything about project management, you know about the saying : all the features, on time, on budget. Pick 2. These patches have "on time" as the main priority. And again, dates slipping is pretty much common and normal in the games industry. I think that people who expect deadlines not to woosh by have the wrong expectation for both software and games.

If you think that they have no reason nor incentive to finish, you are severely under-estimating how much money this sort of game can make once word of mouth gets out after so much wait. It's also pretty baseless and they have never stated an intent not to release and all the work they are doing points otherwise.

Metacouncil is a friendly place and I don't want to get on your case. I'll just say that your interpretation of their desire to seek long-term, systemic solutions is very uncharitable. "Putting your foot down" as you put it would kill this project and my interest in it because they are doing things the right way. To force something out the door right now would be amputating it of many of the techs and systems in development that will be absolutely amazing once delivered, just like the ones we enjoy today already are.

This is basically making the argument for a publisher to come in and force it out the door before it's ready. I'm not with you there.
 
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Cacher

Romantic Storm
Jun 3, 2020
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Cacher ... or spending hours drinking with your mates while gambling among yourselves on the in-game Dog or Horse racing at the bookies, watching the AI fly into bridge supports and the Vinewood sign because Rockstar did the usual thing of not updating all the AI paths when they changed geometry lol and the top fun of riding to the top of Mt Chiliad and getting hit by a plane at the Summit. Good Times.

Gang Wars can GTFO though, always interrupting my fun when i'm across the map or just want to wander around doing nothing or exploring.
Geesh, brings back so many memories. I literally learnt the word "drive-by" by going to a date with Denise. Really fun times indeed.

I also agree with gang wars. I play all of them in my first playthrough, but did not bother touching it except needed during my subsequent 2nd/3rd/4th... playthrough because they are annoying.
I played through San Andreas with Hot Coffee.
No ragrets.
I didn't know about Hot Coffee until ten or eleven years ago. Didn't applied it anyway. I just watched it on youtube or some random video site.
 
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EdwardTivrusky

Good Morning, Weather Hackers!
Dec 8, 2018
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whats with the recent trend of 3d platformers with 2d characters?
Like this cool one that released recently
Niko is indeed cool. Gura from Hololive played it on a comfy stream last week and it's a short-ish ( Probably 4 hours basic run, maybe 9 for completion) but sweet game with a ton of things to do, characters to interact with, minigames and jokes. Think of it like an expanded "A Short Hike" with the same calm vibes.
 
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hersheyfan

South Sea Islander
Jul 17, 2021
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steamcommunity.com
I never played San Andreas.
:face-with-open-mouth-and-cold-sweat:

How is the state of the game currently on PC?
I attempted to play the Steam versiom around a year ago and had to give up, as it was crashing to desktop way, way too often in Windows 10 (given that the game still has that old school save system, this little "quirk" caused no small amount of rage.)

It was so bad I said "fuck it" and bought the Xbox version to play via 360 BC. Not as pretty, but much better for my sanity.

You do need to play it at some point, though. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas is a stone cold classic, and it still holds up today.
 
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FunnyJay

Powered by the Cloud
Apr 6, 2019
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These patches have "on time" as the main priority. And again, dates slipping is pretty much common and normal in the games industry. I think that people who expect deadlines not to woosh by have the wrong expectation for both software and games.
Personally, I have 10+ years of experience of software development in the tech industry (not the game industry, mind), and I have never seen a project being managed in such a way. If you consistently fail to deliver on features when it is time to release and have to push them back, you are seriously overestimating how much your teams can deliver, alternatively underestimating how long time feature X takes to complete.

If you think that they have no reason nor incentive to finish, you are severely under-estimating how much money this sort of game can make once word of mouth gets out after so much wait. It's also pretty baseless and they have never stated an intent not to release and all the work they are doing points otherwise.
And you are under-estimating how much money is being pumped into it currently during development. Say the game is finally released as 1.0.... Is the remaining playerbase that have not yet bought into the game that large?

This project is using quite the predatory monetization schemes with their concierge levels and buying non-existant land and ships yet-to-be-developed. When will Roberts discover NFTs and add them to the game as well?

To force something out the door right now would be amputating it of many of the techs and systems in development that will be absolutely amazing once delivered, just like the ones we enjoy today already are.
This is basically making the argument for a publisher to come in and force it out the door before it's ready. I'm not with you there.
Just curious, what year would be OK in your mind for the game to actually release and deliver on all the promises that have been made? And that includes the release of Squadron 42 as well.
2025? 2030? 2050?

Because the technology they are working on is not getting younger. See Duke Nukem Forever for a project that kept chasing the dream.
 

ISee

Oh_no!
Mar 1, 2019
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Got a few months of free Stadia and tried 2 exclusives, Gunsport (decent fun, but online is dead, has a tiny bit of SP content) and PixelJunk Raiders (felt I had enough after 10 min, repetive and mediocre gameplay).

Still, Stadia is the best cloud service I have tried so far. PS Now is very blurry with some latency and xCloud has good image quality, but a ton of latency. Stadia has barely any latency and quite nice image quality.

Gylt is still the best Stadia exclusive I have played, it released in 2019, so have no idea if it is fully Stadia exclusive or not.
Have you tried GeForce Now? I had latency problems with Stadia, but for strange reasons only when using KB&M. Playing with my Xbox Controller was pretty good. Geforce Now made a better impression on me, in that regard. Though IQ is way better on stadia.
I also bought a PS3 just for GTAV.
Same :cool:.
GTA IV was dope.
I was also pretty shocked how bad it looked and how bad it ran on PS3. My first "HD console" experience was pretty rough and I was very confused, thought I had a defect model or something.
 

fantomena

MetaMember
Dec 17, 2018
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Have you tried GeForce Now? I had latency problems with Stadia, but for strange reasons only when using KB&M. Playing with my Xbox Controller was pretty good. Geforce Now made a better impression on me, in that regard. Though IQ is way better on stadia.


Same :cool:.
GTA IV was dope.
I was also pretty shocked how bad it looked and how bad it ran on PS3. My first "HD console" experience was pretty rough and I was very confused, thought I had a defect model or something.
Nope, not used Geforce Now. Tried a few months ago with a random game and it didn't wanna open.
 
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Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
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Personally, I have 10+ years of experience of software development in the tech industry (not the game industry, mind), and I have never seen a project being managed in such a way. If you consistently fail to deliver on features when it is time to release and have to push them back, you are seriously overestimating how much your teams can deliver, alternatively underestimating how long time feature X takes to complete.
The thing is, this is normal in the games industry. Every post-mortem and dev you can talk to will tell you that. They also aren't missing every deadline, that's by far internet hyperbole. They seem to be making about 70% of them, off the top of my head.
And you are under-estimating how much money is being pumped into it currently during development. Say the game is finally released as 1.0.... Is the remaining playerbase that have not yet bought into the game that large?

This project is using quite the predatory monetization schemes with their concierge levels and buying non-existant land and ships yet-to-be-developed. When will Roberts discover NFTs and add them to the game as well?
I've been a backer since the kickstarter so I have a pretty good handle on how much money they are making, and seeing sales of AAA titles, let alone live services pretty much backs my understanding that shipping will be far more profitable than dragging this on. As for the monetization scheme being predatory, that's just your personal opinion.
Just curious, what year would be OK in your mind for the game to actually release and deliver on all the promises that have been made? And that includes the release of Squadron 42 as well.
2025? 2030? 2050?

Because the technology they are working on is not getting younger. See Duke Nukem Forever for a project that kept chasing the dream.
People ask this a lot, usually to try and get a gotcha. To me it's not a question of "when", it's a question of engineering and reaching a good enough point. Asking "when" without context, to me, is like asking when the car will be there without looking at the road. It's a question of features and work being consistently performed. So long as this continues to be the case, I know we'll consistently get amazing content and features and I doubt anyone wants to ship more than the guys at CIG. They are people, as is CR, and they probably want to get it out the door far more than you or I.

As for the tech not getting any younger, it's also not getting any match any time soon. Anyone trying to half-ass it is crashing and burning, see Elite Odyssey. For a game that's constantly on the verge of being outdated, it certainly keeps on impressing. The comparison to DNF is also completely absurd considering that their mismanagement was actually proven and factual. See, changing engines and restarting the game over and over. Never been the case here, to say the least.
 

prudis

anime occult member
Sep 19, 2018
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The Kingdom of Beer and Porn
twitter.com
so i did the thing again , bunch of threadsies :eek:

dates

trailers:

OTs

wanted to do the reveals from ID@Xbox and Nintendo Indie world too , but that will probably have to wait for later
 
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Joe Spangle

Playing....
Apr 17, 2019
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I bought Battlefield 4 and trying to give it a go now but having a few issues....

First off it just wouldnt start after installing. I click play and it sort of loads up Origin and then nothing happens. Seems there are a few other people on the forums having the same problem. Managed to get it started by re-starting the PC. Not the worse thing to have to do but a pain.

Now im in game. I use a Dualsense but there are no controller button prompts, only keyboard. Ive tried over Bluetooth and wired, again, seems like other people have the same issue. I can manage as the buttons are fairly standard and muscle memory is kicking in however.....there are screens that wont recognise any controller input and i have to use a mouse to select things, like in a weapons crate or for tips that pop up. Its stupid and annoying and to be honest its put me right off and im going to refund it.

Shit like this is why i dont bother with these big company games that much anymore. I can forgive a small dev game having some of these issues but it pisses me off when a massive company like EA doesnt bother to sort this shit out.
 

Gamall Wednesday Ida

Just a loon, apparently.
Dec 4, 2020
350
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www.youtube.com
all >>>>>>DS2
I had trouble getting into DS2 (SotFS), but in the end it has immense replay value: high numbers of viable builds, and levels convoluted and difficult enough to keep things fresh even at NG+5 (which is where I am currently, I believe). Apart from a few technical issues related to the PC port (click delay etc), I really love it now.
 

Mor

Me llamo Willy y no hice la mili, pero vendo Chili
Sep 7, 2018
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beep boop

MetaMember
Dec 6, 2018
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How the Far Right Exploded on Steam and Discord | WIRED

Valve needs to do a far better job at culling hate groups.
Funny, I was in contact with Steam support for a question I had about this subject and moderation, but they didn't get back to me. Usually they do within a day or two.

For sure. I've heard horrible things about Roblox as well. Actual pretend neo-nazis groups are thriving there. Reporting is not resulting in any action being taken over there, which I think is not the case for Valve.
It gets taken care of, but in Valve Time, if ever.

Valve relies way too much on automaton and people reporting when it comes to moderation. Valve should be way more proactive.
Yup. I get the impression they don't actually want to put the work in fix this. To which I say, then shut that part of the community down.
 
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Wok

Wok
Oct 30, 2018
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France
There are Steam moderators for forum posts, and user-generated content in general: one of my screenshots was reported because of a cartoony nipple, and I was threatened with a ban in case of repeat offence. However, when it comes to groups, I know nothing, so it is possible that there is barely no moderator.
 

beep boop

MetaMember
Dec 6, 2018
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I report what I can see. But very rarely does it lead to posts being removed or accounts being banned.
They are not even subtle. They don't need to be I suppose.
I've combed through a lot of the trash and it really is very bad. Profiles that use achievements to spell out homophobic slurs, a seemingly infinite amount of racist groups, a staggering amount of antisemitic content. And so on. None of it in the least subtle.

The thing about Hearts of Iron and Crusader Kings in the article is so true. Like 90% of these people are players of that or CSGO. It's weird.

I really think groups need to go. It barely serves a purpose nowadays and there's barely moderation.
 

ISee

Oh_no!
Mar 1, 2019
3,220
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I barely use Steam forums, and groups. I tried, like 10+ years ago, but it was already to toxic for my taste back then. But I have to admit that steam forums are often a gold mine when it comes to troubleshooting a game!

The problem with forums in general is: You are building bubbles. Once you start tolerating certain forms of toxicity, you start accumulating that kind of behavior. Your attract users that want it, scare users away that do no want it and tell everybody in the middle that it is fine to be toxic.

The result is: Not a nice community like over here.

(I'm actually quiet surprised that the self moderation is working here, even if it is barely used in the first place... could also be size related though. The smaller communities are, the nicer the behavior... there are of course exceptions).
 

QFNS

Plays too many card games
Nov 18, 2018
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I barely use Steam forums, and groups. I tried, like 10+ years ago, but it was already to toxic for my taste back then. But I have to admit that steam forums are often a gold mine when it comes to troubleshooting a game!

The problem with forums in general is: You are building bubbles. Once you start tolerating certain forms of toxicity, you start accumulating that kind of behavior. Your attract users that want it, scare users away that do no want it and tell everybody in the middle that it is fine to be toxic.

The result is: Not a nice community like over here.

(I'm actually quiet surprised that the self moderation is working here, even if it is barely used in the first place... could also be size related though. The smaller communities are, the nicer the behavior... there are of course exceptions).

For sure if this forum had 10x the number of users it would probably not work as well as it does.
 

Joe Spangle

Playing....
Apr 17, 2019
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Never posted on a Steam forum but find them so useful for trouble shooting games (see earlier post about BF4). Shame that they get used by hateful arseholes and i think Volvo could do a lot more to stem that, they are a very rich company and could hire more people to moderate the forums, though Steam is so massive its becoming almost an impossible task. Definitely think they could do more.

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Aaron D.

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Jul 10, 2019
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I use Steam forums all the time and find them invaluable for gameplay tips, technical troubleshooting and Workshop mod suggestions.

Being heavily invested in niche genres and releases that get almost zero attention by mainstream web outlets & forums makes Steam community portals a vital resource in my case.

Never remember running into anything egregious content-wise either (though I'm not suggesting it's not there, I guess I'm just lucky).

Maybe it's because I gravitate to dad-games that have Simulator in the title more often than not, and that audience is generally really chill.
 

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
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The Psychonauts 2 pre-load is live for the Winstore version.
Hoping there will be some preload on Steam too. Though I wonder if it's still the case that preloading on Steam is very slow since it still needs to decode the entire game again.
 
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fokkusu

Burn baby burn🔥🎵
Dec 9, 2018
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D2 Resurrected Server seem to be crashing.

:toucan:

As a reminder, blizzard is running the biggest MMO ever. Plenty of knowledge and experience.
They should also have experience from Warcraft 2/3, Starcraft 1/2 and Diablo 1/2/3 as well :p
 
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eonden

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There are Steam moderators for forum posts, and user-generated content in general: one of my screenshots was reported because of a cartoony nipple, and I was threatened with a ban in case of repeat offence. However, when it comes to groups, I know nothing, so it is possible that there is barely no moderator.
I think groups are part of community so the community mods are the same for that. The problem of groups is that they arent that visible for most people unless you are in them, and nobody will report a group they are in.
Trash grows in the shadows as they say.
 

fantomena

MetaMember
Dec 17, 2018
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Tommorrow I will be officially moving out of my parents house (it's somewhat of a big house, but registered and built like 2 apartments) and moving into my own apartment in a new city for work, so I will be living on my own for the first time. Next is to find a girlfriend as Im not that interested in living alone for a long time. :p
 
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