Community MetaSteam | January 2024 - Let's get this year started!

[Sobatronix]

Shoud I buy Fear & Hunger?

I've heard this game is punishing and sometimes even cruel. Really interesting stuff if you're into dark RPGs with some disturbing themes. I haven't played it but I've heard good things about it, just be prepared to rage and reset a lot though lol.

 

[kio]

It's bad when it's made by studio known for SP story driven games that never had UI that bad.

I mean...
It's mostly the same...

Top-left - HP + Armor + XP + some other small random info
Bottom-left - weapon and/or selected item
Bottom-right - Contextual commands. I thought having the minimap there was new but it seems it was already there in AK while driving the batmobile
Top-right - location and/or mission objectives

The new things are that X in the mid-left that perhaps is a quest marker, but it's honestly not that offensive, and the player list in the mid-right that perhaps made more sense in the top-right.

Other than that the HUD is basically the same.

It's the godawful colours and pop-up numbers that make it offensive. Remove that, or make it less jarring, and it's an inoffensive UI.

Like I said, it's probably going to be a trash game but the HUD isn't a reason for it.

PS: I expect some elements to auto-hide depending on the context like in their previous games.
PPS: The real tragedy is using a great studio like Rocksteady to make this generic garbage. Hate that.

 

[Li Kao]

Venturous finished. It has no business being this good.
I'm not the type to posture about feeling guilty for playing a free game, but I can't lie, I had that question in the back of my head the whole time. why is it free ? Why can't the dev earn money from that ?

 

[dex3108]

I mean...
It's mostly the same...

Top-left - HP + Armor + XP + some other small random info
Bottom-left - weapon and/or selected item
Bottom-right - Contextual commands. I thought having the minimap there was new but it seems it was already there in AK while driving the batmobile
Top-right - location and/or mission objectives

The new things are that X in the mid-left that perhaps is a quest marker, but it's honestly not that offensive, and the player list in the mid-right that perhaps made more sense in the top-right.

Other than that the HUD is basically the same.

It's the godawful colours and pop-up numbers that make it offensive. Remove that, or make it less jarring, and it's an inoffensive UI.

Like I said, it's probably going to be a trash game but the HUD isn't a reason for it.

PS: I expect some elements to auto-hide depending on the context like in their previous games.
PPS: The real tragedy is using a great studio like Rocksteady to make this generic garbage. Hate that.

Tank HUD is the worst and that second one is not how majority of the game looks. This is how HUD looks during combat

Or during free gameplay

 

[Censored]

if anybody cares Street Fighter 6 - SPY x FAMILY collab is up.



some free goodies and at least this time you can buy those two character avatar costumes with drive tickets.

 

[dex3108]

Also when will developers realize how to design proper coop games? All these MP/CooP games where they say you can play with friends or solo and where they allow you to all be same character simply can't be designed properly. There is too much variation in play to design encounters to be engaging and not just pure chaos.

 

[Nano]

SAG-AFTRA Signs Deal With Voiceover Studio for AI Use in Video Games

SAG-AFTRA signed an agreement on Tuesday with Replica Studios, setting out terms for the use of AI voices in video games.

variety.com

Fucking what?

 

[Kyougar]

Also when will developers realize how to design proper coop games? All these MP/CooP games where they say you can play with friends or solo and where they allow you to all be same character simply can't be designed properly. There is too much variation in play to design encounters to be engaging and not just pure chaos.

Even BG3 had massive QoL issues with Coop.

 

[yuraya]

I wonder at what point in video game history did devs decide putting giant hit damage numbers on the screen was some good visual idea. A truly awful trend along with enemy healthbars. It should have never went farther than boss fights imo.

 

[STHX]

SAG-AFTRA Signs Deal With Voiceover Studio for AI Use in Video Games

SAG-AFTRA signed an agreement on Tuesday with Replica Studios, setting out terms for the use of AI voices in video games.

variety.com

Fucking what?

“These are the kind of terms that producers can agree to without disrupting their ability to make content,” Crabtree-Ireland said. “This is an evolutionary step forward. AI technology is not something we can block. It’s not something we can stop. That’s not a tactic or a strategy that’s ever worked for labor in the past.”

Crabtree-Ireland said the agreement will open up new employment opportunities for voiceover performers who want to license their voices for use in video games.
The deal pertains only to “digital replicas” — using AI to re-create the voice of a real performer, living or dead. It does not apply to AI training to create synthetic performances.

 

[undu]

I wonder at what point in video game history did devs decide putting giant hit damage numbers on the screen was some good visual idea. A truly awful trend along with enemy healthbars. It should have never went farther than boss fights imo.

I'm sure the practice got wildly popular with World of Warcraft, even if it wasn't the first to do either.

While I loved the games at the time, I've come to hate it because how influential it has been in dumbing down design for gaming. (The whole theme park MMO genre comes to mind)

 

[Kyougar]

Forza Horizon is at #463 in the UK 2023 charts
"of course they are so low, all the players are on GamePass!"


Yeah.... no.

Only choose 1:

• "Gamepass doesn't impact retail sales, it even boosts them!"
• "The retail release of Game xyz is bad because they are all playing it on Gamepass!"

Personally, I believe that it moves more to point 2 over the years. But currently, I don't believe 99% of Forza players are chilling in the game on GamePass (the amount of players needed to make that chart position not catastrophic) And I never took much faith in the PR that Gamepass Day1 games weren't influencing retail sales negatively (outside of word of mouth successes)

 

[Nano]

Steamworks Development - AI Content on Steam - Steam News

Back in June, we shared that while our goal continues to be shipping as many games as possible on Steam, we needed some time to learn about the fast-moving and legally murky space of AI technology, especially given Steam's worldwide reach. Today, after spending the last few months learning more...

store.steampowered.com

First, we are updating the Content Survey that developers fill out when submitting to Steam. The survey now includes a new AI disclosure section, where you'll need to describe how you are using AI in the development and execution of your game. It separates AI usage in games into two broad categories:

Pre-Generated: Any kind of content (art/code/sound/etc) created with the help of AI tools during development. Under the Steam Distribution Agreement, you promise Valve that your game will not include illegal or infringing content, and that your game will be consistent with your marketing materials. In our pre-release review, we will evaluate the output of AI generated content in your game the same way we evaluate all non-AI content - including a check that your game meets those promises.

Live-Generated: Any kind of content created with the help of AI tools while the game is running. In addition to following the same rules as Pre-Generated AI content, this comes with an additional requirement: in the Content Survey, you'll need to tell us what kind of guardrails you're putting on your AI to ensure it's not generating illegal content.

Second, we're releasing a new system on Steam that allows players to report illegal content inside games that contain Live-Generated AI content. Using the in-game overlay, players can easily submit a report when they encounter content that they believe should have been caught by appropriate guardrails on AI generation.

 

[Shahem]

Pretty reasonable policies. They were never going to outright ban AI-generated games or games heavily leveraging it.

 

[Nano]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[LionelInoe]

It is extremely disappointing that Valve would change their policies on AI content. Not only is it harmful to the consumer, as only more crappy games will continue to flood the market, but it is also extremely harmful to independent developers who are trying to make an honest production. Not to mention it doesn't solve the biggest issue: Valve can't verify that the AI used to produce game content wasn't trained on data that the developer has no ownership of.

I can only be partially glad that these games will have the scarlet letter, but I am not sure about the future of Steam if it ends up being like books on Amazon.

 

[Derrick01]

Steamworks Development - AI Content on Steam - Steam News

Back in June, we shared that while our goal continues to be shipping as many games as possible on Steam, we needed some time to learn about the fast-moving and legally murky space of AI technology, especially given Steam's worldwide reach. Today, after spending the last few months learning more...

store.steampowered.com

Didn't expect them to have the courage to stand up to AI once all the big companies announced they're trying to use it. At least they'll force the games to list its use on the pages so I can block everything that is doing it.

 

[Kyougar]

It is extremely disappointing that Valve would change their policies on AI content. Not only is it harmful to the consumer, as only more crappy games will continue to flood the market, but it is also extremely harmful to independent developers who are trying to make an honest production. Not to mention it doesn't solve the biggest issue: Valve can't verify that the AI used to produce game content wasn't trained on data that the developer has no ownership of.

I can only be partially glad that these games will have the scarlet letter, but I am not sure about the future of Steam if it ends up being like books on Amazon.

They basically had no choice, unless you think that not acknowledging the problem is better,
AI-generated content is here to stay and more and more """legitimate""" publishers and devs will take advantage of AI.
Steam would be in quite a bind if they say they are banning AI content and the next Squeenix game uses it.
At least they are acknowledging it. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have not said anything about it to my knowledge. And those companies wouldn't ban a Squeenix game for AI content as much as Valve does.

There is also the whole legal and copyright issue that Valve is (trying) to get a step ahead of.

 

[hersheyfan]

Forza Horizon is at #463 in the UK 2023 charts
"of course they are so low, all the players are on GamePass!"


Yeah.... no.

Only choose 1:

• "Gamepass doesn't impact retail sales, it even boosts them!"
• "The retail release of Game xyz is bad because they are all playing it on Gamepass!"

Personally, I believe that it moves more to point 2 over the years. But currently, I don't believe 99% of Forza players are chilling in the game on GamePass (the amount of players needed to make that chart position not catastrophic) And I never took much faith in the PR that Gamepass Day1 games weren't influencing retail sales negatively (outside of word of mouth successes)

Just a minor correction - its Forza Motorsport thats presently languishing on the low end of the UK sales charts.

Forza Horizon (4 or 5) are completely separate, and much better games.

 

[NarohDethan]

you promise Valve that your game will not include illegal or infringing content

Given that AI shit gets trained by stealing stuff, this is impossible lol

 

[Alextended]

Sucks to see the AI stuff but realistically they couldn't keep it banned, all companies will be using AI in varying degrees (some have announced it) from now on. Hopefully they're diligent when folks report stuff so at least the egregious cases people can show exactly what/who they ripped off are swiftly removed...

 

[Madventure]

I get that it sucks that they are seemingly letting the flood of random shit AI stuff on steam but i think in the long term AI is inevitable so this announcement is going to be most likely their first iteration of it among a long journey of sorting out what to do with it. The whole thing sounds like a giant headache.

About all I can think of with it is they need to let us ignore more stuff on steam

 

[dex3108]

Technically DLSS is trained on various games that I doubt Nvidia asked permission for. So every game with DLSS is using something that is AI trained on copyrighted data.

 

[Le Pertti]

I admit the AI discourse is a bit confusing to me, people seem to use it but also against it. Seem to hate it but also use it commercially.

There was no way Valve was going to ban AI, it is too valuable as a tool in game development and its uses in games themselves is too potentially innovative to stop. My goal was always to learn AI development just so I could make my own tools to help in game development, but of course build and train them on my own material.

 

[Nano]

Given that AI shit gets trained by stealing stuff, this is impossible lol

That's not how it works. Yes all the ai models you can download are based on scraped content from the web but you can train models from scratch on your own content.

 

[QFNS]

That's not how it works. You can train models from scratch on your own content.

You can do this.

None of the AI Models you've heard of did that. Perhaps there are some that are doing that in the video game middleware space or as a dev tool, but all the big AI tools out there that I'm aware of are built using copyrighted content. This is varying degrees of illegal depending on where you live and where they did that.

 

[Nano]

You can do this.
None of the AI Models you've heard of did that.

Yeah I know. See my quick edit. Its almost like Ai is a big grift.

Scrape the web for one type of content. make a model based on it. release it.. get investors. go public. get sued.

 

[PC-tan]

Devolver Digital (@devolverdigital) on Threads

Sins of the Flesh, the next free update for cute cult sim Cult of the Lamb, offers loyal Followers a slew of worldly pleasures on January 16! Praise the Lamb.

www.threads.net

So the Sex update was really after all?

 

[Nano]

So the Sex update was really after all?

Indeed. Devolver dont lie.

 

[Mivey]

Technically DLSS is trained on various games that I doubt Nvidia asked permission for. So every game with DLSS is using something that is AI trained on copyrighted data.

DLSS isn't generating new stuff that's competing with the stuff it trained on, so it's a pretty moot point. And the training data must have used images with and without anti-aliasing, so the actual thing trained on isn't really about the contents of the image and a huge focus in its training must have been to make it as content neutral as possible.

 

[dex3108]

DLSS isn't generating new stuff that's competing with the stuff it trained on, so it's a pretty moot point. And the training data must have used images with and without anti-aliasing, so the actual thing trained on isn't really about the contents of the image and a huge focus in its training must have been to make it as content neutral as possible.

It's not just DLSS. Nvidia neural network is trained on something and that data is used for various things including DLSS, RTX Remix texture remastering, Nvidia AI for character dialog...

 

[C-Dub]

AI that improves something that would be impossible literally or practically = good.

AI designed to put someone out of a livelihood or somehow negatively exploit or impact their lives = bad.

Even then, there are some times where I’d say AI doing the bad thing is actually good. Would love to see the C-suite replaced by AI.

 

[Durante]

Also when will developers realize how to design proper coop games? All these MP/CooP games where they say you can play with friends or solo and where they allow you to all be same character simply can't be designed properly. There is too much variation in play to design encounters to be engaging and not just pure chaos.

I disagree with this. Designing an entire game around coop is obviously nice, but it's also a massive ask and not a step most projects can take.

As someone who plays more coop than 99% of the gaming population, I'd much rather have a non-ideal coop mode over no coop. This is one case where I think the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Pretty reasonable policies. They were never going to outright ban AI-generated games or games heavily leveraging it.

And they also shouldn't. Generative AI is a powerful tool that is only going to become more impactful in the future, and will allow people to build things which wouldn't be possible without it. It's not like e.g. NFTs which contribute nothing.

 

[Censored]

Just pointing. Nice to see MIG Switch is a reality ^^ and people are getting the first units. Cannot wait for the first reviews and cheaper chinese clones.

 

[MegaApple]

Shoud I buy Fear & Hunger?

Cruelty simulator

 

[Mivey]

Just pointing. Nice to see MIG Switch is a reality ^^ and people are getting the first units. Cannot wait for the first reviews and cheaper chinese clones.

Would this allow to extract save games from the Switch to PC? I don't care that much about "backing up" games, but being able to take my switch games states to PC and emulate them there would be transformative.

 

[ezodagrom]

And they also shouldn't. Generative AI is a powerful tool that is only going to become more impactful in the future, and will allow people to build things which wouldn't be possible without it. It's not like e.g. NFTs which contribute nothing.

Yeah, I guess one potential for generative AI could be things like AI controlled NPC/opponents/monsters behaviours in games? Like, enemies that adapt to a player's actions and such?
But it feels like the focus has been just on artistic elements, like trying to replace artists and voice actors, which is one use of generative AI that I completely despise...
As long as the focus of generative AI is on artistic elements, I don't want any of these games.

 

[madjoki]

Steamworks Development - AI Content on Steam - Steam News

Back in June, we shared that while our goal continues to be shipping as many games as possible on Steam, we needed some time to learn about the fast-moving and legally murky space of AI technology, especially given Steam's worldwide reach. Today, after spending the last few months learning more...

store.steampowered.com

This is kind of questions they ask in survey.

You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.

 

[「Echo」]

The thing about AI that's depressing for me is that it's seemingly being used for all the wrong things to start with. We should be using AI to rid humanity of menial labor, but instead we are letting AI take the creative reigns from us. Art, Music, Voice acting, Writing, Translation. Everyone is gonna be stuck with boring physical labor jobs... And no one is doing anything to stop it.

Not to mention I witness everyday on twitter Witch-hunts against Traditional Artists now having to prove they aren't using AI. The world sucks right now. Fake Art, Fake news, Fake ads, Fake people, Fake voices.

Can't wait 'til I'm 70 and having to stock shelves cuz all the fun jobs were taken by AI.

 

[lashman]

 

[BlackRainbowFT]

AI that improves something that would be impossible literally or practically = good.

AI designed to put someone out of a livelihood or somehow negatively exploit or impact their lives = bad.

Even then, there are some times where I’d say AI doing the bad thing is actually good. Would love to see the C-suite replaced by AI.

I agree.
I'm anti-AI when it comes to unethical stuff (like those anosognosic dimwits on Twitter calling themselves AI artists... yeah right).

But some of the stuff that I see on Two Minutes Paper is really exciting... Things that, without AI, would be computationally prohibitive (like physics simulations).

 

[C-Dub]

The thing about AI that's depressing for me is that it's seemingly being used for all the wrong things to start with. We should be using AI to rid humanity of menial labor, but instead we are letting AI take the creative reigns from us. Art, Music, Voice acting, Writing, Translation. Everyone is gonna be stuck with boring physical labor jobs... And no one is doing anything to stop it.

Not to mention I witness everyday on twitter Witch-hunts against Traditional Artists now having to prove they aren't using AI. The world sucks right now. Fake Art, Fake news, Fake ads, Fake people, Fake voices.

Can't wait 'til I'm 70 and having to stock shelves cuz all the fun jobs were taken by AI.

This is just capitalism’s latest attack on humanity.

It needs overthrowing. Maybe we can use an AI to help us?

 

[yuraya]

The thing about AI that's depressing for me is that it's seemingly being used for all the wrong things to start with. We should be using AI to rid humanity of menial labor, but instead we are letting AI take the creative reigns from us. Art, Music, Voice acting, Writing, Translation. Everyone is gonna be stuck with boring physical labor jobs... And no one is doing anything to stop it.

Not to mention I witness everyday on twitter Witch-hunts against Traditional Artists now having to prove they aren't using AI. The world sucks right now. Fake Art, Fake news, Fake ads, Fake people, Fake voices.

Can't wait 'til I'm 70 and having to stock shelves cuz all the fun jobs were taken by AI.

People always adjust and adapt to labor changes so I don't think it will be so doom n gloom.

Like when the Internet blew up in the 80s and 90s...it killed off millions of jobs around the world. People adjusted and made use of the internet to create millions of jobs etc. Entire sectors were created and pioneered the life we have today where the internet is basically a necessary utility.

I feel like it will be the same with AI. The next decade or so AI will kill off millions of internet and tech jobs. It will be rough and depressing with the transition period......but eventually human beings will find ways to use AI to their advantage creating millions jobs/businesses/hobbies etc. Rinse n repeat.

 

[ezodagrom]

People always adjust and adapt to labor changes so I don't think it will be so doom n gloom.

Like when the Internet blew up in the 80s and 90s...it killed off millions of jobs around the world. People adjusted and made use of the internet to create millions of jobs etc. Entire sectors were created and pioneered the life we have today where the internet is basically a necessary utility.

I feel like it will be the same with AI. The next decade or so AI will kill off millions of internet and tech jobs. It will be rough and depressing with the transition period......but eventually human beings will find ways to use AI to their advantage creating millions jobs/businesses/hobbies etc. Rinse n repeat.

It's not only the jobs (though jobs is a huge issue for artists atm, especially with recent news, like the SAG-AFTRA union throwing voice actors under the bus), when it comes to AI being used for creative/artistic elements, as someone that likes looking at art, listening to music and such, I do not want to be looking at AI art or listen to AI music at all.
I'm not a creative person, I have no artistic skills whatsoever, but I still appreciate alot what others create. I don't know how to explain, but to me I feel that generative AI being used for art is just robbing what I appreciate about art (by art here I mean anything artistic, not just drawings).

I guess I could say, I like art that is created, not art that is generated.

 

[Anteater]

People always adjust and adapt to labor changes so I don't think it will be so doom n gloom.

Like when the Internet blew up in the 80s and 90s...it killed off millions of jobs around the world. People adjusted and made use of the internet to create millions of jobs etc. Entire sectors were created and pioneered the life we have today where the internet is basically a necessary utility.

I feel like it will be the same with AI. The next decade or so AI will kill off millions of internet and tech jobs. It will be rough and depressing with the transition period......but eventually human beings will find ways to use AI to their advantage creating millions jobs/businesses/hobbies etc. Rinse n repeat.

It's not only about "stealing jobs" , it's about stripping joy out of people's lives, raising a new generation who will just go for free AI shits instead of appreciating human creative expressions, obviously I'm over simplifying things but people are treating this like "ha this is just old people yelling at clouds!" and completely ignoring the issues.

Technology improves sure, things like music becomes easier to make, but there's always room for things like live performance people still appreciate, but that couldn't be said about everything else AIs can take over.

 

[ezodagrom]

It's not only about "stealing jobs" , it's about stripping joy out of people's lives, raising a new generation who will just go for free AI shits instead of appreciating human creative expressions, obviously I'm over simplifying things but people are treating this like "ha this is just old people yelling at clouds!" and completely ignoring the issues.

Technology improves sure, things like music becomes easier to make, but there's always room for things like live performance people still appreciate, but that couldn't be said about everything else AIs can take over.

Yeah, agreed. Unlike digital tools where the creative process is made easier, but is still done by the artist, when it comes to AI generated art, the creative process is gone, the "art" is just generated.
I'm all for the creative process to be made easier or more accessible through digital tools and such, but not for it to be gone.

 

[Arc]

Big games like The Finals and Ready or Not were already using generative AI. Valve isn't going to miss out on millions of dollars in commissions for a moral stance. Their AI policy is purely CYA, but at least it's pragmatic.

 

[Hektor]

Maybe AI can finally do the unthinkable and put Kingdom Hearts on Steam

 

[fearthedawn]

It's not only the jobs (though jobs is a huge issue for artists atm, especially with recent news, like the SAG-AFTRA union throwing voice actors under the bus), when it comes to AI being used for creative/artistic elements, as someone that likes looking at art, listening to music and such, I do not want to be looking at AI art or listen to AI music at all.
I'm not a creative person, I have no artistic skills whatsoever, but I still appreciate alot what others create. I don't know how to explain, but to me I feel that generative AI being used for art is just robbing what I appreciate about art (by art here I mean anything artistic, not just drawings).

I guess I could say, I like art that is created, not art that is generated.

I'm interested in seeing/hearing an expression of how other human beings see the world, what their mind can dream up and what they have to say...

Is it going to make a difference to me playing a game if a tree that is supposed to mimic reality as closely as possible is 100% generated? No, but lines get blurry really quickly and if i go to the other end of the spectrum and think of something like generated npcs/dialogue... isn't a human writing that the whole point of dialogue in a game in the first place?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Games using AI was inevitable, having developers disclaim how they're using AI and having that publically avaiable on store pages is infinitely more than what any other storefront will do.