|OT| Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night - Igavania Returns!!

[Phoenix RISING]

It's fun, but it's no SotN.


Lacks the polish I would expect from Castlevania, but I understand that this is an indie effort.

My game crashed during my last session, for example.

 

[OSatan]

Why this game is so good?

Is like they grabed all the stuff of all the igavania games and finally made it work.


Miriam is like you ate playing SOTN with Alucard, Maria and the Belmont AT THE SAME TIME

So good

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I was trying to equip different gear and the game loaded Miriam headless and my game crashed.

That's going in the review, lol.

Also, several instances of odd hit detection. I got a few game overs when she didn't do the "death" animation. Literally, I was walking around, jumped over an enemy, maybe I didn't clear him, and she was walking regularly, but got a game over anyway?

Wife was watching. She laughed.

 

[Amzin]

I think it's a solid game but the combat just doesn't feel that great compared to SotN, or Hollow Knight, or Timespinners, or Ghost 1.0.... basically any modern Metroidvania. It's just a bit clunky. The boss fights so far have been unfun. The various components and whatnot of the game seem fun, I just wish it felt better.

 

[Wibblewozzer]

Just finished with 100% map completion so if anyone has any questions and needs hints towards anything I can help out. I got 99.6% prior to beating it and then found I missed one breakable wall and one spot that the map even showed their were rooms but my eyes kept overlooking the gap in the lines indicating a skipped room.

I'm not one of those crazies that will go for 100% everything in the game but I'm only missing three enemies. I'll probably clean that up if I return for any of that free DLC that releases down the road.

 

[Guilty of Being]

Just finished with 100% map completion so if anyone has any questions and needs hints towards anything I can help out. I got 99.6% prior to beating it and then found I missed one breakable wall and one spot that the map even showed their were rooms but my eyes kept overlooking the gap in the lines indicating a skipped room.

I'm not one of those crazies that will go for 100% everything in the game but I'm only missing three enemies. I'll probably clean that up if I return for any of that free DLC that releases down the road.

100%? Damn! That is really awesome! I look forward to this bad boy.

 

[beep boop]

I think it's a solid game but the combat just doesn't feel that great compared to SotN, or Hollow Knight, or Timespinners, or Ghost 1.0.... basically any modern Metroidvania. It's just a bit clunky. The boss fights so far have been unfun. The various components and whatnot of the game seem fun, I just wish it felt better.

Yeah it's not quite impactful enough for my taste? A little too floaty, the hitboxes are a bit hard to read, and the attack feedback isn't as satisfying as in the games you listed. But I like the exploration a lot. So I'm just trying to get through the boss fights as quickly as possible to get back to the part I enjoy most.

 

[Kuro]

Downloading now on PS4, hype! Been waiting for this, SotN (and Bloodborne) are the single games I can proudly say I've completed easily over 5 times, and I hardly ever replay games.

 

[fsdood]

I finished the game, got around 97% map completion. I think this game overall delivered on it's promises and I might go for 100% on hard for my next playthrough. All the music tracks were really on point, it's like the DS games without the limitations. Even though I loved the older Igavanias OSTs, I always wished they made them without being hindered by weaker hardware.



Combat is standard Igavania with some QoL improvements, such as the passive shards being permanent if you upgrade them to max level and more special attack moves. There are so many weapons and items where you can make your own build to play the game how you want it. The shard abilities are fun to use and some of the bosses like Alfred with his 3D stage, Bael and Zangetsu were a lot of fun to fight against. You can totally make Miriam OP as hell if you know what you're doing, so you can basically break the game. The explorations are all great as well, such as finding bloodless when I wasn't supposed to since I didn't have the reflector ray, I just kept double jumping on candles and enemies. All in all, it's a really great game but there's just some stuff that bothered me which prevents it from being truly great.

Like what Phoenix RISING said, this game has a lot of awful bugs. I used a PS4 controller on PC when I first played it, but when I booted it up, it had no sound. I don't know what the problem was, but when I tried to use DS4Windows to play wireless or even wired, it had sound. It also crashes whenever the PS4 controller gets disconnected so it was frustrating for me when I lost progress or got rare shards. There's also the fact that item drops get stuck at walls or any curved areas and even when I walk through them, I couldn't pick them up. I also disliked the fact that there is no hint whatsoever on how to get the spike armor to progress. I tried doing invert on top of the tower but there was really no indications or hints to use it on the bottom of the tower. I just assumed I needed to fight another boss because almost every upgrade I got to progress was from a boss. Also, English VA is a joke, Japanese VAs can actually emote and are much better to listen to, so change to that asap.

Still, this game was definitely worth it for me. It's been so long since I got something like this and the last game I played in the same sorta style was Odallus. I hope this is successful because a sequel would definitely fix or improve on a lot of things.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

So...looking to get that SotN feel, I did buy the DS games.

I never finished Order of Ecclasia because 1. it's hard, and 2. its gameplay did not seem to justify its difficulty.

Was a larger step back from SotN than I was expecting, even for portable. If Bloodstained is supposed to be more like the DS games, that might be why I'm not floored.

I think it's a solid game but the combat just doesn't feel that great compared to SotN, or Hollow Knight, or Timespinners, or Ghost 1.0.... basically any modern Metroidvania. It's just a bit clunky. The boss fights so far have been unfun. The various components and whatnot of the game seem fun, I just wish it felt better.

All of this. I played Ori and Hollow Knight for the first time a last month and three months ago, respectively. Yeah, this game feels like Lament of Innocence with modern graphics.

 

[Durante]

Honestly, I think you just misremeber the "SotN feel". E.g. people are complaining about floaty controls or the damage feedback in this, but they aren't any different in SotN IMHO.

(Not that I've played much of this, as I said I'm waiting for coop)

 

[fsdood]

So...looking to get that SotN feel, I did buy the DS games.

I never finished Order of Ecclasia because 1. it's hard, and 2. its gameplay did not seem to justify its difficulty.

Was a larger step back from SotN than I was expecting, even for portable. If Bloodstained is supposed to be more like the DS games, that might be why I'm not floored.

Honestly, I think you just misremeber the "SotN feel". E.g. people are complaining about floaty controls or the damage feedback in this, but they aren't any different in SotN IMHO.

(Not that I've played much of this, as I said I'm waiting for coop)

There is a direct comparison between Bloodstained and SotN and they are basically the same. I think the 3D graphics just makes it look like it feels floaty

 

[KainXVIII]

There is a direct comparison between Bloodstained and SotN and they are basically the same. I think the 3D graphics just makes it look like it feels floaty

This was painful to watch, luckily we got Hollow Knight

 

[Deleted member 113]

So...looking to get that SotN feel, I did buy the DS games.

I never finished Order of Ecclasia because 1. it's hard, and 2. its gameplay did not seem to justify its difficulty.

Was a larger step back from SotN than I was expecting, even for portable. If Bloodstained is supposed to be more like the DS games, that might be why I'm not floored.

I honestly couldn't agree less.

People keep mentioning SotN, and I understand it, in the sense that it marked a different approach to the series, and was the last proper new entry in a non-portable platform, but I honestly think quite a few portable games matched, or surpassed SotN.
For me, Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, and Order of Ecclesia are easily better games than Symphony of the Night.
Heck, I would even argue that Circle of the Moon and Harmony of Dissonance (despite the latter's weird soundtrack), are not inferior to Symphony of the Night.

I still consider Aria of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia my favourite "Igavania" games, while Super Castlevania IV and Rondo of Blood are my favourite "classic" Castlevania games.

 

[Line]

Hard to understand how BS feels floaty when it's the only one around with actual hit animations on ennemies, and a slower character than usual (in a very Castlevania fashion - it feels identical, I tried! Including the slow ass greatswords in Sorrow). Of course it's 3D, so sometimes it's a bit more wonky in the collision department but... comparing that negatively to Hollow Knight?
HK has awful controls. Not combat design mind you, the bosses in particular are great, but the character weights absolutely nothing, you can move while you attack, you have zero visual feedback, and the stick is so sensitive that you slip around if you're a bit too brisk on it. Without even talking about the Scrooge McDuck downtrust, it's just not a good feeling with how light and jerky it is.

Anyway, finished the "base" game, and it's pretty close to SotN for me.
Maybe not quite as high, but definitely better in many ways. Also, suffers from the same balance issues, the game is too easy and you can't start in hard mode, that kinda sucks.
It feels more like a mix between the DS games though, which is is not a bad thing at all. And the game has a really nicely designed castle, which is a big deal. Especially after Order of Ecclesia...

So...looking to get that SotN feel, I did buy the DS games.

I never finished Order of Ecclasia because 1. it's hard, and 2. its gameplay did not seem to justify its difficulty.

Was a larger step back from SotN than I was expecting, even for portable. If Bloodstained is supposed to be more like the DS games, that might be why I'm not floored.

OoE is just a failed experiment. It has the old timey difficulty in an Igavania, and it doesn't work. Dying quickly wouldn't be a problem if it applied to the monsters, some bosses are straight up horrendous, battles of endurance where you will die in three hits while wailing on them for minutes.
The level design is absolute garbage, with 90% of the level being complete shit, I mean look at this:

This is an actual level in the game. Most are barely a step above that, and the final castle is the only slightly better one, everything else is a glorified corridor.
OoE has a nice atmosphere, and capturing souls is more fun than in the Sorrow games or Bloodstained, but fuck is is needlessly hard at the cost of everything that made the Igavanias great.
Play Portrait of Ruin, the best Castlevania on the DS, instead. Or the two Sorrow games, they're both very good (even if the anime style is plain awful).

 

[Deleted member 113]

OoE has a nice atmosphere, and capturing souls is more fun than in the Sorrow games or Bloodstained, but fuck is is needlessly hard at the cost of everything that made the Igavanias great.
Play Portrait of Ruin, the best Castlevania on the DS, instead. Or the two Sorrow games, they're both very good (even if the anime style is plain awful).

It's funny how different people can have such diverging opinions.

I completely disagree with you about Order of Ecclesia. I didn't find the game difficult, at all, I liked the stages and maps (it tried something a bit different, and was a mixture of both "classic" Castlevania, and the typical "Igavania" castle maps; you posted a small level that just goes to the left and right, but even when doing so the game made things interesting), it has an awesome soundtrack, and the gameplay is top notch. It's clear to see the influence of some of its mechanics on Bloodstained.

And... I find Portrait of Ruin, easily, the worse of the GBA/NDS Castlevania games. A mess of a map, a character switching mechanic that was more annoying than anything, it felt to me like a failed experiment.
I did like some of the background variations, and the soundtrack is awesome (Yuzo Koshiro!!!), but other than that, it was a massive disappointment for me.

 

[beep boop]

Funny you should mention OoE. I started this one in hard mode (with the NIGHTMARE input), and the difficulty -- especially the first and second bosses -- actually reminded me a lot of that game. Two-four hits and you're done :')

But the challenge pretty much goes out the window after the opening area because of the leveling mechanic, unless you purposefully stay underleveled and don't engage with shard leveling or crafting.

As for floatiness, perhaps that wasn't the best word. I guess it's more about the character not feeling weighty. In Hollow Knight, the character feels grounded in the world, they have weight. Whereas in Bloodstained (and Symphony to an extent) the animations and hit responses don't come across that way. It all has a very artificial or arbitrary feel to it. From the awkward walking animation to the jump, to being tossed around by enemies, etc. In Symphony you could kinda look at Alucard's gliding style of moving around as a vampire thing and the visual effects on him feed into that.

 

[Durante]

OoE just doesn't do very well in the parts of Metroidvanias I enjoy most (i.e. interesting exploration with new options opening up when you unlock new traversal mechanics).

 

[Deleted member 113]

OoE just doesn't do very well in the parts of Metroidvanias I enjoy most (i.e. interesting exploration with new options opening up when you unlock new traversal mechanics).

It's a bit of a casualty for the structure they adopted: it's mostly a classic game, in terms of level design, up until the end, where they place you in a castle (although one that is smaller than usual).

 

[Amzin]

Hard to understand how BS feels floaty when it's the only one around with actual hit animations on ennemies, and a slower character than usual (in a very Castlevania fashion - it feels identical, I tried! Including the slow ass greatswords in Sorrow). Of course it's 3D, so sometimes it's a bit more wonky in the collision department but... comparing that negatively to Hollow Knight?
HK has awful controls. Not combat design mind you, the bosses in particular are great, but the character weights absolutely nothing, you can move while you attack, you have zero visual feedback, and the stick is so sensitive that you slip around if you're a bit too brisk on it. Without even talking about the Scrooge McDuck downtrust, it's just not a good feeling with how light and jerky it is.

As for floatiness, perhaps that wasn't the best word. I guess it's more about the character not feeling weighty. In Hollow Knight, the character feels grounded in the world, they have weight. Whereas in Bloodstained (and Symphony to an extent) the animations and hit responses don't come across that way. It all has a very artificial or arbitrary feel to it. From the awkward walking animation to the jump, to being tossed around by enemies, etc. In Symphony you could kinda look at Alucard's gliding style of moving around as a vampire thing and the visual effects on him feed into that.

In Hollow Knight, I never felt like I was fighting to control the character or fight - everything was incredibly fast and smooth and responsive. Contrast this with Bloodstained, where it controls and handles very much like a pre-metroidvania Castlevania - an entire genre of games I don't enjoy, despite their seeming close relation to the more exploring focused cousins (I finished Shovelknight but even this wasn't very fun for me, that's when I decided I just don't enjoy that style of sidescrollers).

I replayed SotN for like the 9th time just last year, while not as smooth and fast as HK or Ori etc. it felt more responsive than BS. They've straight up copied some of the "tricks" from SotN in BS, like the attack animation canceling from landing, but it feels like the timing is tighter and the attack animations in general (so far) can be longer before the hit goes off so that contributes to it.

I only ever briefly played any of the handheld Igavanias so I can't really comment on them, but I remember having positive initial impressions (just not enough to go buy a device + game on minimum wage ). My initial and so far persisting impression of Bloodstained is just that sticky, clunky feel of it. There's no fluidness to it, it's closer to a rhythmless rhythm game.

I don't think it's a bad game. On the contrary, so far I like everything about it except for the feel of moving / fighting. I'm disappointed the feel of it takes from the side of 2D platformers I don't like, rather than the more direct comparison ones I do. So it's probably great for people that like the more classic Castlevania / Shovelknight / etc. style of feel. I will probably push through and see if some of the shards or weapons or something will make it more fun for me, I don't expect a Darksiders 3 style patch that adds an option to make the game control differently

 

[Parsnip]

Got the bad ending yesterday, and then continued exploring a bit. I think I'm slightly stuck. Well, not exactly stuck but right now I don't have a clear next target I suppose. Gonna poke around some and see if anything opens up.

 

[Line]

It's funny how different people can have such diverging opinions.

I completely disagree with you about Order of Ecclesia. I didn't find the game difficult, at all, I liked the stages and maps (it tried something a bit different, and was a mixture of both "classic" Castlevania, and the typical "Igavania" castle maps; you posted a small level that just goes to the left and right, but even when doing so the game made things interesting), it has an awesome soundtrack, and the gameplay is top notch. It's clear to see the influence of some of its mechanics on Bloodstained.

And... I find Portrait of Ruin, easily, the worse of the GBA/NDS Castlevania games. A mess of a map, a character switching mechanic that was more annoying than anything, it felt to me like a failed experiment.
I did like some of the background variations, and the soundtrack is awesome (Yuzo Koshiro!!!), but other than that, it was a massive disappointment for me.

Oh I don't think OoE is a bad game, it's pretty neat.
But they butchered the Igavania aspect completely, the exploration just isn't there when you have super small, super linear levels. And a lot of them are outright terrible. The forest levels are just the worst of the franchise, it's literally not possible to be worse: three flat rooms and that's it. The others are barely more involved than that.
And the game is hard, by Metroidvania standards, and even more Igavania (which are too easy I admit). You die fast, but ennemies take ages to kill, I remember the crab boss taking a while... and from checking its health on the wiki? 1800HP. You hit for about 15 at that time, and you can't hit it all the time. That's just absurd for a boss that kills you in a handful of hits at best. There's a reason why a lot of people never even finished the game.

As for Portrait of Ruin... it's funny because it is the prototype of OoE, but better. The painting are the side levels, but are much, much superior, and with a good chunk of exploration mixed in (and the carnival level alone, despite looking a bit bland, blows away anything in OoE in how different the level design can be).
The two characters I don't really mind... it's not the most elegant, but the multiple characters being just as important is not exactly a bad idea. Especially since they are quite unique and the skill gimmicks make a lot of sense.

In Hollow Knight, I never felt like I was fighting to control the character or fight - everything was incredibly fast and smooth and responsive. Contrast this with Bloodstained, where it controls and handles very much like a pre-metroidvania Castlevania - an entire genre of games I don't enjoy, despite their seeming close relation to the more exploring focused cousins (I finished Shovelknight but even this wasn't very fun for me, that's when I decided I just don't enjoy that style of sidescrollers).

You don't fight the controls in Hollow Knight, because you don't even have a character, you just have a cursor.
To me, that's the definition of floaty. Indeed in Bloodstained you can be sent flying into a wall, that makes a lot more sense and makes it feel more real than the bug knight that never reacts to anything: there's not even animations, let alone a gameplay impact when you get hit. Or hit others.
And you do move way, way too fast for it to be good, you can juts move and slash away, like all action games you need some level of commitment, inertia and sometimes animation lock to feel something.
Else you just get Hollow Knight, where you freak around as fast as you can move your joystick, in combat it feels like nothing at all, just stand where the boss can't reach and mash your attack - there's no timing or pattern to learn when you're never punished for your mistakes.

 

[Amzin]

You don't fight the controls in Hollow Knight, because you don't even have a character, you just have a cursor.
To me, that's the definition of floaty. Indeed in Bloodstained you can be sent flying into a wall, that makes a lot more sense and makes it feel more real than the bug knight that never reacts to anything: there's not even animations, let alone a gameplay impact when you get hit. Or hit others.
And you do move way, way too fast for it to be good, you can juts move and slash away, like all action games you need some level of commitment, inertia and sometimes animation lock to feel something.
Else you just get Hollow Knight, where you freak around as fast as you can move your joystick, in combat it feels like nothing at all, just stand where the boss can't reach and mash your attack - there's no timing or pattern to learn when you're never punished for your mistakes.

You and I have very different experiences with HK clearly. Patterns and timing were critical to getting through HK, and combat had tons of feedback. I'm also not sure which version of BS you're playing because there is absolutely no knockback on getting hit or hitting, you can sometimes stagger enemies but best I can see is that it's random - I'm sure it's not, but with every weapon doing different damage and no enemy health bars I can't identify how to trigger it. In HK you get knocked around pretty heavily and every attack has a clear and consistent reaction both from your character and the enemies. You still had commitment, too, you also had more options and more control over that commitment. Best way I can describe Bloodstained (and other games controlled that way) is "binary" - again, no fluidness, no feeling of control. Bloodstained does not control like a metroidvania to me, it feels like a Castlevania with some extra buttons. I don't begrudge people enjoying those games but that's not what I wanted out of a modern Igavania, and (so far) I would rank it as one of the least fun metroidvanias I've played and it's been my favorite genre for a while now so I've played all the PC ones I can get my hands on. It's probably a fine Castlevania, though

Edit: HK is the primary comparison I've been going to because it was my GOTY and one of my favorite games of all time, but I did mention a number of other metroidvanias that I think all control better than Bloodstained. Timespinners felt great, Ori feels great (despite the brutal platforming sometimes), Shadow Complex is probably a bit too far removed combat-style-wise to directly compare but the movement still felt reasonable there. I somehow haven't played Iconoclasts yet but I need to. Fighting games too have commitment to attacks (it's fundamental) but they don't feel super clunky, they feel very smooth in fact. SotN I mentioned I replayed lately and it felt better despite being older and very experimental for the time (a year is a year I guess, but in my experience I rarely misremember mechanics of games, even if I can't remember my lunch from yesterday).

 

[Wibblewozzer]

Got the bad ending yesterday, and then continued exploring a bit. I think I'm slightly stuck. Well, not exactly stuck but right now I don't have a clear next target I suppose. Gonna poke around some and see if anything opens up.

If you decide you want a hint you should say what the last ability or whatever you got. Because I got the bad ending well before I was actually able to continue properly with the true ending path so that along isn't enough to know what you should do next.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

There is a direct comparison between Bloodstained and SotN and they are basically the same. I think the 3D graphics just makes it look like it feels floaty

I appreciate the side-by-side, and I can tell that they tried.

It's not just the 3D, but the animations themselves, such as the after-shadows when Alucard moves for the first time. I think they were successful in the change direction animation and the jumping, but the attack swing and walking, not so much.

Also, you know how Alucard makes a striking pose when you old up? Miriam looks like she's straddling a stripper pole.

 

[Parsnip]

If you decide you want a hint you should say what the last ability or whatever you got. Because I got the bad ending well before I was actually able to continue properly with the true ending path so that along isn't enough to know what you should do next.

Yup.
No hints just yet, but if you are curious where I am:

Spoiler

I beat the blood lady and drained the blood pool for the second access point to the caverns, went there but didn't immediately find anything to do there. I have some areas where I can probably do something with the beam travel ability so I'm going to check those next time before I'm officially stuck.

 

[Line]

You and I have very different experiences with HK clearly. Patterns and timing were critical to getting through HK, and combat had tons of feedback. I'm also not sure which version of BS you're playing because there is absolutely no knockback on getting hit or hitting, you can sometimes stagger enemies but best I can see is that it's random - I'm sure it's not, but with every weapon doing different damage and no enemy health bars I can't identify how to trigger it. In HK you get knocked around pretty heavily and every attack has a clear and consistent reaction both from your character and the enemies. You still had commitment, too, you also had more options and more control over that commitment. Best way I can describe Bloodstained (and other games controlled that way) is "binary" - again, no fluidness, no feeling of control. Bloodstained does not control like a metroidvania to me, it feels like a Castlevania with some extra buttons. I don't begrudge people enjoying those games but that's not what I wanted out of a modern Igavania, and (so far) I would rank it as one of the least fun metroidvanias I've played and it's been my favorite genre for a while now so I've played all the PC ones I can get my hands on. It's probably a fine Castlevania, though

HK was simply way too permissive. Again, the character has zero weight, there's no animations, you just create a blade of wind in front of you.
I don't condemn that, I think it's an excellent game!
But it does make the game feels like a whole lot of nothing, even if the sound design is good... you just walk while swinging with not a care in the world. It's like an FPS where you have absolute control over your character and no inertia and visual feedback, you really need little animations and physics depending on your movement.
In HK, you can just instantly make a 180 turn, there's not even one frame of animation to show it. It is fast indeed, but also gives you zero feeling.
The opposite of BS where you get a unique animation when you hit a wall hard enough and where all weapons act differently.
HK is playing the entire game with Crissaegrim, a deluge of attacks at the cost of combat feedback (and actually, there is a wind blade that feels pretty similar in BS: you just run and spam the attack button while ennemies don't react and just... hit you, it's a really good point of comparison with the rest of game).

I really enjoyed the game, but despite all of that, not because of it.
Because I find it really weird that you were hoping for an Igavania... when you seem to dislike all of it.
Especially considering it's the closest clone of SotN that we've had yet...

Also that video is a bit old, since they did tighten up some thing since the demo.
But some things are different because... production values oddly enough.
Miriam get back up in her neutral position after swinging a sword with a little 3D animation, Alucard does it instantly during his swing because they didn't bother making transitions for every weapon, 2D is expensive, and they clearly didn't care enough to do that for everything.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Hard to understand how BS feels floaty when it's the only one around with actual hit animations on ennemies, and a slower character than usual (in a very Castlevania fashion - it feels identical, I tried! Including the slow ass greatswords in Sorrow). Of course it's 3D, so sometimes it's a bit more wonky in the collision department but... comparing that negatively to Hollow Knight?
HK has awful controls. Not combat design mind you, the bosses in particular are great, but the character weights absolutely nothing, you can move while you attack, you have zero visual feedback, and the stick is so sensitive that you slip around if you're a bit too brisk on it. Without even talking about the Scrooge McDuck downtrust, it's just not a good feeling with how light and jerky it is.

Anyway, finished the "base" game, and it's pretty close to SotN for me.
Maybe not quite as high, but definitely better in many ways. Also, suffers from the same balance issues, the game is too easy and you can't start in hard mode, that kinda sucks.
It feels more like a mix between the DS games though, which is is not a bad thing at all. And the game has a really nicely designed castle, which is a big deal. Especially after Order of Ecclesia...


OoE is just a failed experiment. It has the old timey difficulty in an Igavania, and it doesn't work. Dying quickly wouldn't be a problem if it applied to the monsters, some bosses are straight up horrendous, battles of endurance where you will die in three hits while wailing on them for minutes.
The level design is absolute garbage, with 90% of the level being complete shit, I mean look at this:

This is an actual level in the game. Most are barely a step above that, and the final castle is the only slightly better one, everything else is a glorified corridor.
OoE has a nice atmosphere, and capturing souls is more fun than in the Sorrow games or Bloodstained, but fuck is is needlessly hard at the cost of everything that made the Igavanias great.
Play Portrait of Ruin, the best Castlevania on the DS, instead. Or the two Sorrow games, they're both very good (even if the anime style is plain awful).

I'll probably play that Alien game that's a Metroidvania first, but I'm glad that someone else felt the same way about OoE.

On Hollow Knight, you do have feedback. When you hit something, the shock of the sword gives knockback, and you have to wear a charm for it to go away. But others have been discussing that already.

 

[Amzin]

HK was simply way too permissive. Again, the character has zero weight, there's no animations, you just create a blade of wind in front of you.
I don't condemn that, I think it's an excellent game!
But it does make the game feels like a whole lot of nothing, even if the sound design is good... you just walk while swinging with not a care in the world. It's like an FPS where you have absolute control over your character and no inertia and visual feedback, you really need little animations and physics depending on your movement.
In HK, you can just instantly make a 180 turn, there's not even one frame of animation to show it. It is fast indeed, but also gives you zero feeling.
The opposite of BS where you get a unique animation when you hit a wall hard enough and where all weapons act differently.
HK is playing the entire game with Crissaegrim, a deluge of attacks at the cost of combat feedback (and actually, there is a wind blade that feels pretty similar in BS: you just run and spam the attack button while ennemies don't react and just... hit you, it's a really good point of comparison with the rest of game).

I really enjoyed the game, but despite all of that, not because of it.
Because I find it really weird that you were hoping for an Igavania... when you seem to dislike all of it.
Especially considering it's the closest clone of SotN that we've had yet...

Also that video is a bit old, since they did tighten up some thing since the demo.
But some things are different because... production values oddly enough.
Miriam get back up in her neutral position after swinging a sword with a little 3D animation, Alucard does it instantly during his swing because they didn't bother making transitions for every weapon, 2D is expensive, and they clearly didn't care enough to do that for everything.

See, I don't care if there's animations or not, it's about how the game responds to me. That character is me and I am that character. Not having the feeling of responsiveness is instantly a huge problem in a game for me. If I hit dodge I want to DODGE, if I hit attack I want to ATTACK, animations and sound and haptic feedback all build on the starting point of button -> action, which for me is absent in BS. All the best animations in world will never make it feel better. I don't mind an FPS with no animations if the gameplay is responsive and fun. I would hate to play an FPS where you move the mouse and your character slowly starts to turn. In fact, basically everyone would hate that, and to me that's what all those "old school" platformers are, and Bloodstained controls more like that than a metroidvania.

I love SotN, it's one of my favorite games ever. I liked the brief bits of I think Harmony of Dissonance and Lament of Innocence that I played on a friends' handheld. Bloodstained improves on all of those in a lot of ways with RPG systems and the like, but the core of the game of attacking / moving / defending is not on the same side of the 2d action fence as them, it's on the side with Shovelknight and Ghosts' N' Goblins' and all of those. It's a fine line, I know, and it's frustrated me in the past (I should like Shovelknight but I just can't enjoy it), and BS is just over the line, especially compared to other metroidvanias in the past 10 years and that little bit of slowness over SotN makes all the difference for me.

Like legitimately, if they just "sped up" everything by 10-20%, I might love it instantly. Maybe I should try speed hacking it to do just that. And it's not like I don't enjoy slow games, it's just the context for me, and it does not work for me here.

Edit: Bit of a late add, but I would compare it to playing a single-player FPS with 200-300 MS ping... you can play it and still have fun, but it's annoying and you don't understand why it is like that. That's how BS feels to me. I used to play Quake 2 all the time online on servers with shitty internet and had fun, but now that I normally have 14-20MS ping I just have no expectation to ever go back to 200.

 

[Kuro]

I got the game for PS4 cause everything on the internet said it'll be 4K60, but the aliasing is quite bad, is it really 4K?

 

[lashman]

I got the game for PS4 cause everything on the internet said it'll be 4K60, but the aliasing is quite bad, is it really 4K?

it might be outputting 4k, but the gameplay itself might not be ... so the only "real 4k" thing is the UI

 

[OSatan]

Damn the 1% drop grind is painfull!

The whips been bad hurt my soul but then I got a throwable sword and I forgot about them...

 

[Amzin]

OK so, after my edit to my last post and having a bit of a night anyway, I opened up BS and remembered someone had been asking about some "input lag" option. I hadn't really explored the options since it defaulted everything to max and my framerate hadn't dropped, but sure enough there's a "reduce input lag" option that defaults to off, I turned it on and the game is much better now. Extremely close to SotN. My framerate hasn't changed and I have no idea wtf that option could be doing and why it needs to exist instead of just... the game not having input lag... but yea. I can keep playing it now without forcing myself

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I may not be able to finish this game.

I am in the caverns where Shovel Knights appear. Going into a new room triggers BSOD.

It has happened to me three times in the past 30 minutes.

 

[Deleted member 113]

I may not be able to finish this game.

I am in the caverns where Shovel Knights appear. Going into a new room triggers BSOD.

It has happened to me three times in the past 30 minutes.

Sad to hear it.

So far I thankfully didn't experience any crashes or major issues, and I'm pass that point.
People keep laughing because I still use Windows 7, but I can't remember the last time I had a game crash on me.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Game just crashed on me again. That's better than a BSOD, but I'm not wasting any more time with this.
Even while NOT playing, I'm getting Memory_Management BSOD errors now.

This game corrupting my system now???
Dang it's looping now. Cant even get a stable WIndows start

 

[tet666]

Game just crashed on me again. That's better than a BSOD, but I'm not wasting any more time with this.
Even while NOT playing, I'm getting Memory_Management BSOD errors now.

This game corrupting my system now???
Dang it's looping now. Cant even get a stable WIndows start

Well i can pretty much guarantee you it's not the game but something with your Hardware/System going haywire, games don't cause issues like that especially not if they are not even running. Maybe start with checking your Ram.

 

[beep boop]

Some of the bosses in this game are Bull Shit (on hard mode anyway). The latest two I've had the displeasure of facing were so stupid. Just RNG whether you get the killer moves or not.

Boss spoiler

Alfed in particular was pure hell. He can slow you, then curse you, then drop a meteor shower on you. That's 100% health to 0 at 900+ health points.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Well i can pretty much guarantee you it's not the game but something with your Hardware/System going haywire, games don't cause issues like that especially not if they are not even running. Maybe start with checking your Ram.

Yeah, I updated my video drivers and that solved the issue of random crashes, but not the issue of the game crashing at the pause menu.

Yeah, I updated my video drivers and that solved the issue of random crashes, but not the issue of the game crashing at the pause menu.

I checked Steam, and I see I'm not the only person who got the "Headless Miriam" crash.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

In this screenshot, I do a backdash as Dominique begins to talk to me, and now I'm stuck.

Another bug. I jumped into the water and went underwater under the rock on the right. Now the game won't let me jump back out

 

[Wibblewozzer]

For the water bug I found if I did a suspend save and reloaded I could jump out. It happens very frequently and I saw it suggested it happens if you do a divekick into the water or slide into the water or press down+A to slide as you strike the water it causes that to happen. I bet it happened to me three or four times in total. This was one bug in particular I found it hard to see how that was missed since it seems fairly easy to trigger.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

For the water bug I found if I did a suspend save and reloaded I could jump out. It happens very frequently and I saw it suggested it happens if you do a divekick into the water or slide into the water or press down+A to slide as you strike the water it causes that to happen. I bet it happened to me three or four times in total. This was one bug in particular I found it hard to see how that was missed since it seems fairly easy to trigger.

I just hard restart my game.

I'm treating this game like a PS1 era b-tier JRPG. I'm backtracking to save every 10=15 minutes.

Yo, I got stuck. "Seek the demon darting through narrow holes." was the clue.

I gave up and Googled it, and LAUGHED OUT LOUD. How TF was I supposed to know that?????????

 

[Wibblewozzer]

Yeah, the hint system is pretty bad. A couple are near required to make any progress since the next step isn't entirely logical and then the rest are "Zangetsuno (or whatever) says he saw a demon darting in a fire area" but the area it always mentions is somewhere you haven't seen so it's not helpful at all. Usually you need direction in how to reach the next area because if you reach somewhere new you already have a real good idea you're on the right path.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Made it to the bad ending.

WHEW!

Yeah, the hint system is pretty bad. A couple are near required to make any progress since the next step isn't entirely logical and then the rest are "Zangetsuno (or whatever) says he saw a demon darting in a fire area" but the area it always mentions is somewhere you haven't seen so it's not helpful at all. Usually you need direction in how to reach the next area because if you reach somewhere new you already have a real good idea you're on the right path.

Yeah, an unintuitive progression system is one thing, but the hint system is another. And the solution I'm talking about
Dumb, lol.

 

[Xiaomi]

Started playing this yesterday, got about 2 hours in. It is solid, but I kind of want something more. Kind of scratches that Igavania itch but it feels like another Aria/Dawn of Sorrow for all the good and bad that brings. A bit more work on the atmosphere and more inventive art design might have made it more than "just" another Igavania.
Haha, I assume the bosses aren't supposed to come out and get stuck in a turning around loop, letting me hack them to death without attacking me?

 

[fearthedawn]

I guess i got lucky because it starts to feel like i've been playing a different game

• no bugs
• no crashes
• no problems progressing through the game, i took the "hints" as a deliberate joke because they really don't help at all and just spoil the next mechanic but i found everything easily enough by exploring the game, never had to look for more than an hour to find a new area

 

[Deleted member 113]

I guess i got lucky because it starts to feel like i've been playing a different game

• no bugs
• no crashes
• no problems progressing through the game, i took the "hints" as a deliberate joke because they really don't help at all and just spoil the next mechanic but i found everything easily enough by exploring the game, never had to look for more than an hour to find a new area

Yeah, so far I'm about 7 hours in, and thankfully I didn't experience any crashes, any bugs, and I had no problems progressing through the game.
I mean, like it's usual in the genre, obviously it came a time where I had to take a look at the map, and see were didn't I explore already, but again nothing different from past entries.

I hope the developers can patch the game, to remove these crashing issues that some users are experiencing.

 

[Line]

See, I don't care if there's animations or not, it's about how the game responds to me. That character is me and I am that character. Not having the feeling of responsiveness is instantly a huge problem in a game for me. If I hit dodge I want to DODGE, if I hit attack I want to ATTACK, animations and sound and haptic feedback all build on the starting point of button -> action, which for me is absent in BS. All the best animations in world will never make it feel better. I don't mind an FPS with no animations if the gameplay is responsive and fun. I would hate to play an FPS where you move the mouse and your character slowly starts to turn. In fact, basically everyone would hate that, and to me that's what all those "old school" platformers are, and Bloodstained controls more like that than a metroidvania.

I love SotN, it's one of my favorite games ever. I liked the brief bits of I think Harmony of Dissonance and Lament of Innocence that I played on a friends' handheld. Bloodstained improves on all of those in a lot of ways with RPG systems and the like, but the core of the game of attacking / moving / defending is not on the same side of the 2d action fence as them, it's on the side with Shovelknight and Ghosts' N' Goblins' and all of those. It's a fine line, I know, and it's frustrated me in the past (I should like Shovelknight but I just can't enjoy it), and BS is just over the line, especially compared to other metroidvanias in the past 10 years and that little bit of slowness over SotN makes all the difference for me.

Like legitimately, if they just "sped up" everything by 10-20%, I might love it instantly. Maybe I should try speed hacking it to do just that. And it's not like I don't enjoy slow games, it's just the context for me, and it does not work for me here.

Edit: Bit of a late add, but I would compare it to playing a single-player FPS with 200-300 MS ping... you can play it and still have fun, but it's annoying and you don't understand why it is like that. That's how BS feels to me. I used to play Quake 2 all the time online on servers with shitty internet and had fun, but now that I normally have 14-20MS ping I just have no expectation to ever go back to 200.

I very much respect that... and I saw your post about the input lag option in the menu, yes that would explain it!
Because it was super weird to me, I played BS and SotN literally next to one another and it's real hard to spot the differences.
But yeah, some people like the slower Monster Hunter-like gameplay, some don't, or like something in the middle. It feels nice to me, but indeed, not when you have input lag

Anyway, finished the game, got my ultimate sword, all shards... and that will be it.
I really, really enjoyed it, but I won't go for the 100%, it's a huge layer of grind that I won't do... crafting all items in the game is brutal.
Also, I got no bugs in my game, except loot getting stuck in walls... but note that you will automatically pick it up after a few seconds if you wait on the screen.

Now to wait for the DLC and Bloodstained 2

 

[Kuro]

Loving the game so far, 7 hours in, but the resolution on PS4 Pro is bugging me so much, I can't be the only one who thinks it's definitely sub-4K.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

So after killing Bloodless, I went through and cleared the entire area under the fountain. So I'm stuck again. Look up the solution on YT, and I LAUGH OUT LOUD.

Ok, instead of collecting an item, I am farming a specific shard from a specific enemy

LOL, I would have had ZERO chance of figuring that out on my own.