News Epic Games Store

Wok

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If it was open source it would be free. Having access to the source doesn't make it open source. There's a different license agreement attached to it.
It is not "free software", but the source is open and one can use the software for free for publishing if the gross revenues are low.

We offer a choice of licensing terms depending on your use of Unreal Engine.
 
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Wok

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There is a Github repository which can be accessed after accepting the terms.
It uses their license agreement, but apart from that, one can modify the source, and they accept pull requests.

It does not have a free software license, even though it is free as in beer if gross revenues from publishing are below $3000/quarter.
It might not fit your definition of open-source, if open-source equals free software for you, but the source could not be more open.

 
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Alextended

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Yes, that doesn't make it open source. having access to the source of an engine you license to use is kind of a no brainer (though many don't). even if that license comes at no initial cost, or no cost depending on your intended use of it. And yes UE4 has pretty decent terms nowadays, with the royalties and stuff, unity and other engines shook them and got them away from subscriptions and prior ridiculously crazy costs, that is how they maintained its popularity.

If someone actually contributes to their code base how do they compensate him from all the future royalties taken from engine versions that include his code?
 
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Wok

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I see. After a quick look on Wikipedia, it seems that free and open-source are equivalent. I thought there would be a clearer difference as they both appear in FOSS, which now sounds redundant.
 
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Ge0force

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I know I keep saying this, but I still haven't said it in 2020. :grinning-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Don't give timmy boy and these developers/publishers the free publicity they get whenever a game is announced, or rumoured, to be an EGS exclusive.

Really, there are so many other games to play (both older ones, and new ones that keep launching every day), why get upset about missing out on a few?
Is everyone really lacking games to play?

We are now a year later, they will continue pulling this crap (because let's face it, it's the only way people talk about the EGS store; that, and the free games), why continue doing exactly what these people want to get from this?
I mean, I already saw people almost "begging" GSC World on twitter not to make S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 an EGS exclusive. Does this make any sense to you?

Guys, don't waste your time, take your money, and get something else, and support other developers/publishers, who aren't pulling this crap.

I really don't get getting worked up about this (frequently beforehand, and without much basis; I remember people talking like Disco Elysium was a sure exclusive, and see how that worked out), especially when everyone then runs to buy these games as soon as they launch on Steam, as if nothing as happened.
Meanwhile plenty of developers launch their games on Steam/GOG/..., and no one buys them, and no one talks about them.
I'm going to print this post and hang it in front of my desk :)
 

Copons

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I see. After a quick look on Wikipedia, it seems that free and open-source are equivalent. I thought there would be a clearer difference as they both appear in FOSS, which now sounds redundant.
It's not though... 😮
I work mostly on open source software that we sell.
I also work on closed source software that we give away for free.

Open source simply means that the source is public and anybody can contribute to it, and sometimes the licence allow you to modify the source and redistribute it as you see fit.
Which is not the same as free, or that you can modify the source once you've purchased the rights to use it.
 
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C-Dub

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I think "Open Source" has become somewhat shorthand by some people for free open source software with a specific license that makes it completely free and requires any changes you make to the software (either contributed back to the original project or forked into a separate project) to also be distributed for free.

Unreal Engine obviously isn't that. But technically the source is open and editable. Though obviously you can't just go and fork it and not pay Epic what's theirs. They still own it all.
 
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Kyougar

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Open source would mean that you could change the code significantly and release your own (free) Version of UE4 and even make money with tech support on your own Version, is that possible with UE4?
 

Ge0force

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"On PC, new storefronts and subscription services challenged the hegemony of Steam. The Epic Games Store used tactics like signing exclusivity deals for anticipated games to gain market share. These moves were controversial, but those who would actually skip a major game instead of using a new storefront are a vocal minority of the gaming population. Borderlands 3, an Epic exclusive on PC during 2019, generated $329M across PC and console during the year. By late 2019, 17% of US PC gamers used the Epic Games Store to purchase full games compared to 37% who used Steam. "

 
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Alextended

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Why would superdata have an interest in obfuscating facts to pimp Epic? Like that BL3 figure without the split of console/PC and all that bs about minorities?

17% seems like the minority to me, so then 83% of PC gamers don't wanna buy from Epic according to the same article that pimps how well they're doing. Meh.
 

gabbo

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Why would superdata have an interest in obfuscating facts to pimp Epic? Like that BL3 figure without the split of console/PC and all that bs about minorities?

17% seems like the minority to me, so then 83% of PC gamers don't wanna buy from Epic according to the same article that pimps how well they're doing. Meh.
I think that 17% is meant to be a "look at what Epic has achieved in such a short period of time!" I'd also like to see a breakdown of the other 46% of pc sales and if it included things like Gamepass.

That it doesnt say what counts as a game sold on EGS - do free games added to accounts go to this total? Does it make any difference between the two sales Epic ran - one of which was a clusterfuck for devs; and the rest of the calendar year? Does it count sales only after the moneyhatted floor has been reached (ie actual customers versus what Epic bought upfront with their exclusivity deals)?

We'd have people falling all over themselves saying yeah GameX sold Y copies but during a steam sale where it's heavily discounted or in a bundle/third party sight at less than msrp, so the devs didnt actually make much money.

edit: unless someone wants to sign up for superdata and read the full report, which I'm less than inclined to do on a friday morning at 6:40.
 
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Ge0force

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Why would superdata have an interest in obfuscating facts to pimp Epic? Like that BL3 figure without the split of console/PC and all that bs about minorities?

17% seems like the minority to me, so then 83% of PC gamers don't wanna buy from Epic according to the same article that pimps how well they're doing. Meh.
Exactly, their "small vocal minority" claim is nonsense. According to superdata, BL3 sold about 1.7 million. This is definitely not bad, but not great either for the sequel of a 10 million+ seller. Sekiro sold much better (2-5 million), despite being a non-mainstream game because of it's difficulty. Also, the succes of Hades on Steam proves that a significant amount of pc gamers doesn't want to use EGS.
 

NeuralProxy

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I stopped reading this stuff but I'm looking forward to Epic closing down their Store at some point in the future and the exact same journalists/analysts/however they call themselves writing articles on how "the model was evidently doomed from the start".
 

Swenhir

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Well, given the only source of data that we have with PlayTracker, the vocal minority is pretty much in the camp of the writer. By the way, how do you reconcile calling Steam a "hegemony" when they only have 37% of PC marketshare according to the article? How about the remaining 46%? Wouldn't the existence of such a large amount of competition belie the claim in the first place?

Seriously, articles like these make me feel like there's a clique of some sort at work here and it's pretty disgusting to see in all its intellectual dishonesty.
 
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madjoki

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Well, given the only source of data that we have with PlayTracker, the vocal minority is pretty much in the camp of the writer. By the way, how do you reconcile calling Steam a "hegemony" when they only have 37% of PC marketshare according to the article? How about the remaining 46%? Wouldn't the existence of such a large amount of competition belie the claim in the first place?

Seriously, articles like these make me feel like there's a clique of some sort at work here and it's pretty disgusting to see in all its intellectual dishonesty.
Rest = steam key resellers, gog., battle net, origin uplay.

Exactly, their "small vocal minority" claim is nonsense. According to superdata, BL3 sold about 1.7 million. This is definitely not bad, but not great either for the sequel of a 10 million+ seller. Sekiro sold much better (2-5 million), despite being a non-mainstream game because of it's difficulty. Also, the succes of Hades on Steam proves that a significant amount of pc gamers doesn't want to use EGS.
Something like Borderlands 3 is much less affected than Hades.
 
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gabbo

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Rest = steam key resellers, gog., battle net, origin uplay.
The article never does say that though does it? I'm just as correct in relation to that article to state the other 46% is solely from the Windows/Xbox PC store. It's hyperbolic nonsense, but there isn't anything there to prove otherwise.
 

Wok

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There is no "other 46%". The 17% EGS could totally overlap with the 37% Steam.

Have you purchased a full game from Steam in 2019? 37% answered yes.
Have you purchased a full game from the EGS in 2019? 17% answered yes.

The (unknown) rest of the people could be pirating games, playing on Battle.net, GOG, clearing their backlog, playing old games, getting games from resellers, Humble Monthly subscribers, etc., whatever.
 
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Tizoc

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There is no "other 46%". The 17% EGS could totally overlap with the 37% Steam.

Have you purchased a game from Steam in 2019? 37% answered yes.
Have you purchased a game from the EGS in 2019? 17% answered yes.
I swear I learned how to do this kind of probability calculation last year but now I forgot the formula for it :V

What's the probability, based on these values that one bought a game on BOTH Steam and EGS?
 

Ge0force

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The (unknown) rest of the people could be pirating games, playing on Battle.net, GOG, clearing their backlog, playing old games, getting games from resellers, Humble Monthly subscribers, etc., whatever.
Don't forget free-to-play games! Game Pass (trials) and the free EGS games are probably significant factors as well.

I know you wrote "etc", but F2P is still huge on pc.
 
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Bonfires Down

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Don't forget free-to-play games! Game Pass (trials) and the free EGS games are probably significant factors as well.

I know you wrote "etc", but F2P is still huge on pc.
For sure. I expect that number to be dominated by LoL, Minecraft, Roblox, Fortnite, PUBG and DOTA players to name a few.
 
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kaelan

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I stopped reading this stuff but I'm looking forward to Epic closing down their Store at some point in the future and the exact same journalists/analysts/however they call themselves writing articles on how "the model was evidently doomed from the start".
I can’t help but think that if that happened, they would find a way to blame that on steam somehow.
 
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FunktionJCB

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thanks for the heads up. That wasn't as interesting as I had hoped.
Many of them are missing. :giggle:
But yeah, you didn't lose much.

Just a few random insults thrown around, for whatever reason.
I'm not sure anyone that was around at the time understood what the hell that was about.
I mean, I only found out it wasn't a new user, but an existing one with his name changed much later, when I saw that thread.
 

BernardoOne

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Open source would mean that you could change the code significantly and release your own (free) Version of UE4 and even make money with tech support on your own Version, is that possible with UE4?
It actually doesn't mean that at all. There's many kind of different license agreements that can be involved in open source software. Many emulators, for example, exist on a license that allows everyone to release their own version, but it doesn't allow them to use it for commercial purposes.
 
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gabbo

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It actually doesn't mean that at all. There's many kind of different license agreements that can be involved in open source software. Many emulators, for example, exist on a license that allows everyone to release their own version, but it doesn't allow them to use it for commercial purposes.
The unreal engine doesn't subscribe to any of those licenses, really. You can play with the code all you want, but you yourself cannot release a version of the engine, eg 'BernardoOne's Unreal Engine' or even 'BernardoOne's Engine' without paying Epic their licensing fees to do so. It's like Open Source adjacent. idtech however, that's been open sourced several times (with the different engines up to.. id tech4 i believe).. and you can do what you want with it and don't owe id or bethesda shit. Tim letting Carmack eat his lunch.

It's such a strange argument for Tim to have made since it's not like he's opened his own store up to such scrutiny.
 
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Sygmaelle

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Thank you for clarifying, yes that does not mean 0 players entirely.

The amount of active players is low enough that it is within our margin of error, making the precise amount unclear, so I just said "close to 0%". It is somewhere between 0% and 4% of the estimated 2M owners. Still plenty of players for the game to keep chugging, but significantly below what I would expect for the game. For reference, we estimate the XBOX version of the game to be around 2.8M owners with 17% active. We also detected a significant increase in popularity (derived from owners and active players) over the Holiday break:


We estimate the PlayStation version to be around 3.4M owners with 16% active:

On ps4 alone thats 540 000+ players

xbox is at around 470 000+

pc is around 80 000


There's nothing to worry about, game popularity will skyrocket again when they'll introduce level cap raise along with a new Tiny Tina DLC and the numbers are much, much, much better than in the past

BL 2 all time numbers : Borderlands 2 - Steam Charts
 
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Phoenix RISING

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Pretty much I wanted nothing to do with the HW3 fig campaign despite my everlasting love for Homeworld. This smells incredibly fishy and the fact they used fig did nothing to alleviate my fears. I have no small amounts of rage toward Epic and the morons at GBX that thought of that one.
Yeah I woulda been down to crowdfund for the first time of my life, but they went with Fig and I was like, "TF is 'fig'?"
 
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