[UWSL]I know you don't mean it like that but your post reads like Steam is a boomer dinosaur that will inevitably fail when their main audience dies off and EGS is the cool-kids store. [/UWSL]
Oh no, that wasn't my intention at all!You post reads like the future of Steam is doomed and that Steam are just for old people
I only have a few tweens in the family. But they are mostly playing Fortnite and GTA online on their dads (old) computer.I'd bet most 15 year olds won't be playing heavily on PCs beyond very select games, they'll be playing on consoles.
The way I see it is this: If you are the Fortnite type of player (free to play, GaaS) then it's highly unlikely that you are buying many regular (or core) games. If you are the regular (core) type of gamer then the overwhelming majority of your library will still end up being on Steam. Both groups may belong in the general category of "PC gamers" but their playing and buying habits are vastly different. So I can't see the path that turns any meaningful percentage of these young Fortnite players into core gamers that buy lots of games on EGS instead of Steam.Most people prefer having their games in one place. For us that's Steam, because it was our only option for many years. But for young people who bought their first games pc, it's definitely EGS.
depends i guess , i remember discussion with my american friend about the acces to games in our youth (90s/00s) and with similar reasons (aka being poor and parents not really into computing) .... we had complete opposite ways to get into games .... in the america it was mostly consoles and borrowing games at the school and PC was deemed work machine ,here (CZ) it was complete opposite where console (other than some famiclones from vietnamese flea markets) was rare device for the wealthy (and parentally seen as useless as it was games only) and everyone pretty much had knowledge how to build PC and games were mostly through magazines or pirated as there wasnt really a legit market for themI'd bet most 15 year olds won't be playing heavily on PCs beyond very select games, they'll be playing on consoles.
I'm not sure about this. It seems to me that F2P games are the entry point into gaming for the absolute majority of children nowadays, including my own daughter. Everywhere I go, I see children playing F2P games on their parents phone, their own tablet or on dad's computer.The way I see it is this: If you are the Fortnite type of player (free to play, GaaS) then it's highly unlikely that you are buying many regular (or core) games. If you are the regular (core) type of gamer then the overwhelming majority of your library will still end up being on Steam. Both groups may belong in the general category of "PC gamers" but their playing and buying habits are vastly different.
Agreed, but anecdotally I see almost zero overlap between that kind of gaming and core gaming. I think that they are two separate worlds within the same platform, kinda like the people who buy a console only to play FIFA.I'm not sure about this. It seems to me that F2P games are the entry point into gaming for the absolute majority of children nowadays, including my own daughter. Everywhere I go, I see children playing F2P games on their parents phone, their own tablet or on dad's computer.
I agree that the majority of these people won't buy or play any other games than the most popular F2P stuff. But it's very likely that the people who DO become a "core" gamer, have an extensive history with popular F2P games like Fortnite.
When we were young, our gaming experience was limited by the high prices of gaming hardware and games. This is no longer the case nowadays.
Agreed. But I believe that most of the "new" core gamers are former F2P gamers nowadays, for the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts. People don't get into gaming by getting a console or pc for their birthday anymore; this already happens when they learn how to use a tablet or smartphone at a very young age.Agreed, but anecdotally I see almost zero overlap between that kind of gaming and core gaming. I think that they are two separate worlds within the same platform, kinda like the people who buy a console only to play FIFA.
I was curious how this one would turn out. One of the original financiers of Shenmue III jumped on board with this around the time Namco were dropping the PC version and physical console releases, which is also to no one's surprise the same time they announced they were going EGS exclusive.Another win for Timmy.
Twin Mirror Reviews
Twin Mirror is rated 'Weak' after being reviewed by 74 critics, with an overall average score of 61. It's ranked in the bottom 19% of games and recommended by 31% of critics.opencritic.com
I really wish they'd spent their money making games instead. I reckon the end result would've been better and we'd have some quality games to play. I reckon if they'd held back a year or two, funded some new exclusives that were published by Epic (thus, they shouldered all the risk rather than cherry-picking third party exclusives to grab headlines), and launched their store with a bunch of first party games they'd be in a much stronger position now.This is once more proof that Epic's moneyhats don't lead to better games.
That's always been PR nonsense by Tim, along with the claim that a lower cut would lead to cheaper games.This is once more proof that Epic's moneyhats don't lead to better games.
If only Epic made games that weren't just Fortnite content. They've got ip and the Rocket League dev, and they're just sitting on them. Hell, use some of that moneyhat to get third party devs (maybe some of those same indie devs they claim to be trying to save) and have them create a new Pinball, or Jazz Jackrabbit, or finish the Unreal Tournament that was like 45% finished two years ago.. I would buy any one of those, on EGS even, without hesitation.This is once more proof that Epic's moneyhats don't lead to better games.
2020:87 non-exclusive games
70 timed exclusives
26 unknown games
13 timed-unknown games
186 games in total
135 (all kinds of) exclusive games up to this day, 45 already released on Steam or...208 non-exclusive games
93 timed exclusives
38 unknown games
14 timed-unknown games
344 games in total
Emphasis mine. What worries me about it is that we all know what happens when users get something for free and the company has to do what companies do.However, the biggest change has been the more open approach of the store as the number that changes the most is the Non-exclusive entries, from 87 up to 208, which is really great to see, however, why did this number get such an increase? well, let's remember that freebies are still a thing, in 2019, until mid-year it was 1 freebie/2 weeks and then it switched to 2 freebies/2 weeks but a third change happened at the very end of the year (IIRC about October) that was 2 freebies/each week, this change has been stayed like that all the way until the end of 2020 (and there is no indication that this will change)
Why so? probably because the biggest number of users that interact with the store each week are the ones that redeem those games as we have seen in multiple occasions, also, it's the only way of engagement within the social media each week, as there isn't a constant flow of games entering nor a flow of news, the freebies are the only way to stay afloat in terms of relevance each week against other competitors.
Yeah probably a montage with some new indie gets and previously announced titles. I know there was a rumor of The Wolf Among Us 2 being shown, and that was confirmed exclusive last year so that would also count as 1"Exciting news announcements" for EGS ? New deals I suppose.
Yeah hopefully nothing too big in scope. I can deal with a few indies exclusive to that store.Yeah probably a montage with some new indie gets and previously announced titles. I know there was a rumor of The Wolf Among Us 2 being shown, and that was confirmed exclusive last year so that would also count as 1
It is a video reel with a few announcements, as Arc said, don't expect big announcements, it's something that has been happening a lot this year, probably Kena, Hitman 3 and the superbrothers game (can't remember the name right now) and some new indies announced. this is what I said."Exciting news announcements" for EGS ? New deals I suppose.
Fourth and last thing, this was announced just right now so I won't be able to modify the numbers but still, my bet is that they will announce around 8 games, 6 news and 2 already known (Hitman 3 most likely one of them) same as point 3, you will be the one who decides if I was wrong or right, ok?
following the same pattern that followed at the E3, gamescom and spring reel.
First of all, thanksWonderful post, work and analysis. Thank you for such diligence for over two years now.
Emphasis mine. What worries me about it is that we all know what happens when users get something for free and the company has to do what companies do.
Users become the product.
What is deeply worrying about it is that tendency the gaming industry has been having this past decade, increasing this year in my perception, of really going hard on telemetry and spying on the user. Tencent being involved isn't really assuaging concerns either. I dread what may be coming in that respect, and I hope the store will just remain a smaller-sized alternative, working hard to regain trust and actually offer something to its users.
You deserved it!First of all, thanks
Secondly, when it comes to the "user becomes the product" theory, it is true because when it comes to any digital platform, the number of users is the main weapon you use to make your position matter and while some use it less than others, I think its's something that happens with every service, IMHO I don't think Tencent is the concern here because I can't see it being worse than some other corps that are also Epic investors, so in general I think it's right now the best way they have to make their place, using the users numbers (without giving them) to show the strong points of the store, but as I said, wording is key, when using certain metrics you are trying to highlight something and hide something else, but that's just my opinion.
Thanks Geoforce.Great post Mor!
Whatever Epic is about to announce, I'm pretty sure most of us won't like it. I expect more money hats, probably another giveaway of a brand new game like they did with Troy in exchange for exclusivity and there's a rumor that Epic will start a cross-platform store for VR games. I also expect them to continue the coupons and free games for at least another year to inflate the number of MAU's.
In my opinion, the state of EGS after two more years of development is beyond embarrassing. I don't see how EGS is competition for Steam, GoG or even Microsofts Xbox app in any way. But clearly I'm not seeing what the majority of games journalists can see.
From where?rumor that Epic will start a cross-platform store for VR games..
Thanks a lot, AlexandrosGreat work Mor , thank you for taking the time to collect this information.
I'm quite curious to see what kind of games this EGS reel will include. It should give us an idea on the kind of investment that Epic is willing to make.
I mean, check the lists of all the 2020 reels, it's a clear pattern. I don't see a reason why you should be sweating and even if something you want gets announced, check out the list, 12 months, that's it.If the list of exclusives disappoints, I think it'll become clear to everyone that Epic is focusing on their first party stuff.
sameI wish Epic would just fucking sell games instead of stir drama. This whole thread would have like 4 pages instead of 247.
I would not dislike Epic nearly as much if Tim Sweeney would tone down the rhetoric. He's got a major case of a messiah complex by thinking only he can change PC and mobile gaming, yet conveniently has a blind spot for consoles even though they charge similar rates.I wish Epic would just fucking sell games instead of stir drama. This whole thread would have like 4 pages instead of 247.
It's not even about Sweeney for me. EGS' whole concept of the customer is a relic, like the old 1950s hollywood studio system, or record companies and their radio stations in the late 1990s, or how game consoles are increasingly looking in 2020. Choice and service always win. Epic doesn't disrupt the market, it tries to bring it back to the old world of gaming and that's why nobody wants it. I'd love to shop there if they can not be dicks.I would not dislike Epic nearly as much if Tim Sweeney would tone down the rhetoric. He's got a major case of a messiah complex by thinking only he can change PC and mobile gaming, yet conveniently has a blind spot for consoles even though they charge similar rates.
Absolutely spot on.EGS' whole concept of the customer is a relic, like the old 1950s hollywood studio system
Oh I'm not sweating at all, I've been very vocal in my belief that Epic will be scaling down its moneyhatting sooner rather than later so your data didn't surprise me. I want to see what Epic does next about EGS purely for curiosity's sake, to get a handle on what their plan is going forward. Is it publishing, like the deal with Remedy? Is it giving away new games like Troy? Will they go for the Game Pass model?I mean, check the lists of all the 2020 reels, it's a clear pattern. I don't see a reason why you should be sweating and even if something you want gets announced, check out the list, 12 months, that's it.
In my own opinion the things are more or less clear.
1 or 2 AAA (probably 1 and use Hitman 3 again as another AAA)
0 or 1 of their published games (probably the Limbo devs one)
and a bunch of indies from different places, self-published or with known publisher (Eitr in most likely)
Thank Phoenix
That's the thing, after year two I expect a kind of switching path in some aspects scaling down the number of moneyhatted games (until it reaches 0, actually) and focus on a different direction.Oh I'm not sweating at all, I've been very vocal in my belief that Epic will be scaling down its moneyhatting sooner rather than later so your data didn't surprise me. I want to see what Epic does next about EGS purely for curiosity's sake, to get a handle on what their plan is going forward. Is it publishing, like the deal with Remedy? Is it giving away new games like Troy? Will they go for the Game Pass model?
I think that EGS' second year in the market has shown us two things. One, the store can't cut it as a Steam competitor even with all of the monetary incentives. Two, Epic has a specific budget for its EGS project, not the unlimited Fortnite money that some were imagining. So we'll see where they'll go from here. My hope is that Epic will stop the moneyhatting shenanigans and try to gain customers in a more consumer-friendly way.
this is already a thing but we don't have results nor enough data to analyze what can we expect from this, more games will be published but if you ask me, those will only be timed exclusives (I have already explained why I think so, but if necessary I will explain it again)Is it publishing, like the deal with Remedy?
You can absolutely bet on this too, as I explained in my post, the main way of keeping the store relevant right now at a weekly basis is via the giveaways and the freebies, not only that but when they give away a timed exclusive at release date, the media usually puts the focus on EGS because it's a bigger thing that the usual weekly giveways, so yeah, expect this to keep happening just because it makes sense.Is it giving away new games like Troy?
Aren't they testing a subscription model for Fortnite already?Will they go for the Game Pass model?
This is largely my view too. I wasn't sweating at all.Oh I'm not sweating at all, I've been very vocal in my belief that Epic will be scaling down its moneyhatting sooner rather than later so your data didn't surprise me. I want to see what Epic does next about EGS purely for curiosity's sake, to get a handle on what their plan is going forward. Is it publishing, like the deal with Remedy? Is it giving away new games like Troy? Will they go for the Game Pass model?
I think that EGS' second year in the market has shown us two things. One, the store can't cut it as a Steam competitor even with all of the monetary incentives. Two, Epic has a specific budget for its EGS project, not the unlimited Fortnite money that some were imagining. So we'll see where they'll go from here. My hope is that Epic will stop the moneyhatting shenanigans and try to gain customers in a more consumer-friendly way.
Agreed. While I still prefer a multistore release, I don't mind exclusivity for 1st party games.[UWSL]I actually don't have a problem with that because Epic has to shoulder a lot of risk to get those games made, which is a respectable position inasmuch as they are funding new games rather than cherry picking nearly-finished titles for their store, and developers are getting an excellent deal.[/UWSL]
That was the best part about how the PC gaming community reacted to Epic. For a whole year customers were bombarded by practically everyone in the industry about how Epic's moneyhatting is the best thing ever and those who oppose it are irrelevant and/or toxic. Customers overwhelmingly showed them the middle finger and that was both satisfying and hilarious.They had a theory that publishers and developers could dictate where players went, and players would follow. Considering Steam versions outsell Epic versions released 3-12 months earlier in a fraction of the time, that theory has been categorically demolished. Time was always going to be this project's undoing.
i wonder why(Steam was 08/20, outside range as was November 2020 which is the best month so far)
That's summer sale, yes, it was like 5$Control
Seems pretty barren outside sales promos. (Steam was 08/20, outside range as was November 2020 which is the best month so far)
Remedy is a great example of how to ruin your reputation with bad business decisions. Especially on pc, they always seem to find a way to piss off their fans with exclusivity deals and/or late/bad pc versions. No doubt they'll do this with their next game as well, since it's published by Epic and probably a permanent EGS exclusive.Control
Seems pretty barren outside sales promos. (Steam was 08/20, outside range as was November 2020 which is the best month so far)
I wouldn't expect anything till January or February.Did we ever get a year-2 financial report like the one last year where they proudly had shown their 30 million or so revenue?
What is this from? A sales report of some kind?Control
Seems pretty barren outside sales promos. (Steam was 08/20, outside range as was November 2020 which is the best month so far)