News Epic Games Store

Ge0force

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Jan 12, 2019
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I'm not much of a billionaire, but I really don't understand how Valve lowering their cut would lead to iOS becoming an open ecosystem. I really don't get it.
 
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Paul

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Jan 26, 2019
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Honestly, the "you assholes" sounds so strange I want to think they all know each other well and this is more a friendly ribbing (while still being genuinely pissed about the 30% of course). The "You mad bro" follow-up indicates as such. Hilarious either way though.

I'm not much of a billionaire, but I really don't understand how Valve lowering their cut would lead to iOS becoming an open ecosystem. I really don't get it.
It wouldn't, Sweeney just hopes it would increase pressure on Apple to (eventually) reconsider.

Of course, these days Valve's cut is quite a bit lower than 30% due to the 25-20 tiers, plus selling keys without any cut, plus selling steam cards and eating the payment costs.
 

ExistentialThought

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Feb 29, 2020
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"...which is unheard of."

Well gee, I wonder why no other businesses have drastically cut their revenue split to gain market share. Surely its only greed and not needing to profit.

I have to assume far more behind the scenes numbers and analytics went into it, but these figures in that email from Sergey are absolutely back of napkin maths that you should never build a business model on. They could have come out with a 15 percent rev split, or even higher, and lowered later on with dialed in data. Instead they bet the house and have little path to profitablity unless spend per user grows significantly.

Also using FNs data to overlay onto costs of servicing other content is dangerously naive. FN is an outlier in a lot of ways. But focusing on any one game to adjust your business plan is stupid. You would need to market analyze what costs are for the industry. So basic of mistakes that it amazes me how folks get into the positions they have, and this is coming from a certified dummy (though not I am not dummmyy :face-with-stuck-out-tongue-and-tightly-closed-eyes:)
 

Paul

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Jan 26, 2019
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Imho they could have been successful (eventually profitable) even with 88/12 if they invested lot of resources into making EGS actually better than Steam on features, design and functionality (plus provide the free games, discounts etc) and never poisoned the well by depriving people of value via forcing exclusivity on their vastly inferior platform.

But, they chose the path they chose, and therefore failed.
 

Jav

Question everything, learn nothing
Sep 17, 2019
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Imho they could have been successful (eventually profitable) even with 88/12 if they invested lot of resources into making EGS actually better than Steam on features, design and functionality (plus provide the free games, discounts etc) and never poisoned the well by depriving people of value via forcing exclusivity on their vastly inferior platform.

But, they chose the path they chose, and therefore failed.
It's cost of opportunity, Epic invested its resources in dead ends that have not yielded any significant benefits. and as soon as their main source of income started to decline, their tactic of outspending their rivals was dismantled and led to an almost complete standstill for the EGS.

The only reason we see the store still going is because it is instrumental to their legal battles around the world and Tim Sweeney's personal crusade.

Also, reading the emails, I don't know about Galyokin credentials in the video game or corporate world but at best what he wrote is napkin math and anyone with a modicum of corporate experience would be able to tell him ten things he has not considered that would cause their strategy to fail. What I don't know is how nobody at Epic told them "no", because after years of being on the "numbers" side of the industry I can tell you his emails read like gibberish trying to justify an untenable policy that could only work on paper.
 

crimsonheadGCN

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Jan 20, 2019
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www.resetera.com

Arc

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Sep 19, 2020
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I wish devs would stop telling nonsense if they go EGS exclusive to get more profit one way or another. On the blacklist this goes.
It's not exclusive in the usual sense as you can purchase it now from their own site and something called Chaf Games. I think the Dark and Darker devs want to be back on Steam, but Valve is being conservative and won't allow it until the Nexon case has completely resolved.
 
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PC-tan

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Jan 19, 2019
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It's not exclusive in the usual sense as you can purchase it now from their own site and something called Chaf Games. I think the Dark and Darker devs want to be back on Steam, but Valve is being conservative and won't allow it until the Nexon case has completely resolved.
That would make sense, seeing how NEXON is one of Valves partners in Korea.

At least once the court case goes through they can at least say, hey the court legally says that it can be sold here by this dev.
 

Arc

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Sep 19, 2020
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Surprised Epic wasn't prepared for DMA

Last year Tim implied they were "ready to deploy". :shrugblob:

They mentioned having third party games so I'm sure stuff like Mihoyo and Ubisoft titles will launch on it. I don't think it'll do significantly better than other alternate stores such as Samsung or Amazon. Google Play and the App Store simply dwarf alternate stores.

Really the worst part about Epic launching a mobile store is they'll likely combine all their numbers into one instead of separating them.

So what happened to the "you still have to pay apple for each install" ?

EU is on Apple's case about it. They're going to be forced to walk it back ala reversing the Epic ban.
 

ExistentialThought

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Feb 29, 2020
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I feel like if their success on PC has been any indicator, their mobile attempts are going to need three wishes and prayer.

Mobile is even more cutthroat than PC or consoles with a massive gap between success and failure. Fucking Amazon struggled to make a dent in the market and they did the same free app giveaways and tons of funneling back into their ecosystem through all of their product lines. Epic hitting the scene and trying to take even less money is once again betting the house on massive growth from somewhere and leading those folks back into things they do make money on, which is seemingly only Fortnite at the moment still... Unreal Engine makes money, but with the amount of things they are trying to write off to get folks to jump to UE, and with how little companies want to pay to use an engine, it still cannot be much more than 250m-500m a year (which I think 250m was well above the actual rev from the years that were leaked).

I know we have said it for years, but it still surprises me how much they seemingly rely on Fortnite to fund all of these endeavors that have tight or non-existent profit margins.
 

Arc

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130 million players have tried out those islands, resulting in engagement-based payouts of $320 million to creators to date.
For comparison, Roblox paid out $741 million in 2023. I believe Fortnite has far more generous terms though.

And Persson is particularly excited about incorporating the the extension of UEFN to Lego Fortnite, where players will be allowed to publish their own games within Lego Fortnite using the Lego brand under a one-click agreement. (Creators will keep 85% of the engagement-based payout on such experiences, while Lego will receive the remaining 15%.)
Hopefully Tim fights against the 15% LEGO tax.
 

kio

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Apr 19, 2019
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I think whatever arguments and feasibility studies exist for this epic move (pun intended) can be summed up in a single gif

 
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ExistentialThought

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For comparison, Roblox paid out $741 million in 2023. I believe Fortnite has far more generous terms though.

Also, I have to imagine this includes their per-reversal on UEFN creator payout terms that now requires folks to make purchases. Previously it was on playtime or something, which likely resulted in some hefty payouts that were not sustainable (cue the changes).
 
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PC-tan

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1:00:57 if the timestamp doesn't work.
Epic rewards.

I didn't realize that was a thing and that's basically what Nintendo and Humble Already offer.

I think Sony technically offers something similar as do Xbox, how ever there's work different. For Sony and Xbox their thing is more similar to the my Nintendo silver coins and you use those to get store credit, while with Nintendo you just need to buy games to get the gold coins which can be directly used to pay for games.
 

ExistentialThought

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Feb 29, 2020
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Epic Rewards are one of the very few things I wish Valve would have implemented something similar. When the points shop first leaked, I hoped it was going to be some sort of loyalty rewards program.

To go back to looking at them eating crackers though, I think Epic undermined their own program by starting the increased % back during select sales, but that is a debate for another day.
 

Arc

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In an interview at last week's Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, the developers behind indie sensations Slay the Spire and Darkest Dungeon said that the deal some small developers have come to rely on for funding in recent years—like Epic Game Store exclusives and Xbox Game Pass—are no longer what they once were.

"I talked to at least five small teams, like 35 [members] and under, during GDC, and they're like: Cuts, cuts, cuts, funding canceled, talks that were going on for a year, canceled," said Casey Yano, the co-founder of Slay the Spire studio Mega Crit. "It sounds like it's shit. We're definitely very privileged to be able to self-fund. [Otherwise] I'd be very, very, very scared right now."


Slay the Spire launched to slow sales in Steam early access before eventually becoming a deckbuilding juggernaut. Darkest Dungeon was likewise a Steam early access success; both games are available on PC Game Pass, though DD director Chris Bourassa said that Microsoft's deals for getting games on Game Pass have "come down in scope" since the subscription service began.

"Way down," Yano added.

"So has Epic," Bourassa said. "The Gold Rush is over. I come from the Northwest Territories. The town I'm from was built on gold, and then they found diamonds further north. Maybe another paradigm shift is waiting for us, but I definitely think the scale of the deals I'm hearing about is significantly dimishese from the big swinging days. Certainly we got our Epic [deal] at the right time."

Darkest Dungeon developer Red Hook Studios made the somewhat controversial choice to launch the sequel in early access as an Epic exclusive. While those exclusives haven't been popular with players, they've allowed some indie developers to "break even" on their games even before release, a safety net that's hard to pass up when a game's success can make or break a small studio.
 

ExistentialThought

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It is no surprise, going into a high interest environment, coupled with some downturn in consumer spend, investors grumbling, and these services needing to transition to be more profitable, or at least, less costly, and you are going to see less deals floating around.

I do not foresee these deals returning anytime soon unless new platforms appear. Though that would be a surprise given how a lot of new services within the past 4 years have struggled or shuttered. I think expectations are going to continue to shift going forward and where the money will follow, but god I hope it does not continue to follow a couple of things I already know it is, but time will tell.
 

Arc

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Smaller games were never going to move the needle and big games are too expensive to constantly sign exclusive deals. I still think they'll give the old college try for GTA 6, but I wouldn't expect the cadence of exclusives from 2019-2021 to happen again.

Epic has pivoted towards UEFN as their next big thing. They're paying out hundreds of millions of dollars a year for masterpieces like this.
 

Stone Ocean

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Apr 17, 2019
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Smaller games were never going to move the needle and big games are too expensive to constantly sign exclusive deals. I still think they'll give the old college try for GTA 6, but I wouldn't expect the cadence of exclusives from 2019-2021 to happen again.

Epic has pivoted towards UEFN as their next big thing. They're paying out hundreds of millions of dollars a year for masterpieces like this.
Epic realized they couldn't overtake Valve so instead they decided to try their hand at the prestige market of mobile asset flip rip offs.