News Epic Games Store

[Chudah]

Just woke up, I have to say this show wasn't so bad. No game I cared about, but Dontnod hurts. I've been rooting for them since Remember Me, they will have to do without me and others now.

What Yu Suzuki and Deep Silver did for Shenmu III is one of the most galling, outrageous and greedy move the gaming industry has ever seen. I mean check the history :

• They rode Sony's E3, gaining a publicity most kickstarter and indies can only dream about
• They had a massive Kickstarter success and secured a publisher
• They promised Steam keys and even sent a poll to that effect a while ago

Kickstarter is based on an ideal and goodwill, they wouldn't exist without those. It shows their true character when they then take the most cynical and toxic choice possible with exclusivity on a fucking open platform. They turned their backs on the people who supported them and they did so without a shred of remorse or hesitation given the tone of their recent communication. To paraphrase it :

"No, you don't get refunds. This is how it is. Fuck you."

I don't know if it's a Japanese idea to sound so unapologetic and authoritarian when you are so much in the wrong but it's not going to do wonders for them.

Has the press said anything yet about this or the impact Epic has on kickstarter which is, you know, the seedbed of most indies, gaming innovation and triumphs since 2012?

I think Epic paid them so much money that they don't care about pissing off their backers, we don't matter anymore. They have what they want, and we can all go pound sand for all they care.

Honestly, this entire deal feels like Epic twisting a knife in on Steam and the PC Playerbase just to be spiteful. Shenmue III is going to bomb big time on the EGS. The Fortnite kids won't touch it with a 10 foot pole, and anyone who was ever interested in it in the first place probably backed the Kickstarter. This is Sweeny saying "Fuck you, you don't like EGS, well you're going to fucking use it whether you like it or not." And I'm sure he paid a mint to make sure of that. He needed a big WIN after Microsoft basically made them look like idiots the last 2 weeks, but I'm really not sure this is the type of win that's going to get them anywhere.

Whatever the case, I'll probably end up deleting the email with the EGS key. I know that sounds petty, but I refuse to be strong-armed into doing something that I'm 100% against.

I'll tell you this though. I've backed almost 50 projects on Kickstarter over the last 5-6 years, and I'm done. Never again. I don't care if that means some amazing games may never see the light of day now. I will not risk a penny of my money going to support the EGS.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I bet there will be some amount of legal issues with this no refund stuff

there'll be a 'if you are in the eu you may now request a refund at this website' in less than a week

 

[Swenhir]

I'll tell you this though. I've backed almost 50 projects on Kickstarter over the last 5-6 years, and I'm done. Never again. I don't care if that means some amazing games may never see the light of day now. I will not risk a penny of my money going to support the EGS.

I understand where you are coming from but I'd ask you to consider tempering this decision. We have so much to loose from kickstarter dying. Boycotting KS isn't the only way to make sure projects don't go to EGS. We have to find a solution that preserves this funding method because if it dies, then the dream of games that the industry would never fund dies with it.

 

[Alextended]

I think it's kinda flux with KS. I mean you can't sue them if they don't even manage to complete a crowd funded game. it happens. you know the risks. They can probably argue their proposal doesn't equal a contract for each and every feature and property of the product they initially pitch. Of course it's different and shitty when they manage to complete and release the game, but not in the manner they promised, but if they have no legal issues when not even releasing a product in the end how can they have such issues for in comparison minor alterations like that? I don't know. But I do think they'll reverse the decision due to bad PR if a few big sites pick up on that without kissing Epic ass. Not that they'll be forgiven after that but they simply must comply with these requests, otherwise they appear like complete jerk offs even if one doesn't agree with those asking for a refund (hence the not kissing Epic's ass in coming reports bit).

 

[lashman]

there'll be a 'if you are in the eu you may now request a refund at this website' in less than a week

there fucking better be ... i doubt people will just let it slide

 

[Chudah]

I understand where you are coming from but I'd ask you to consider tempering this decision. We have so much to loose from kickstarter dying. Boycotting KS isn't the only way to make sure projects don't go to EGS. We have to find a solution that preserves this funding method because if it dies, then the dream of games that the industry would never fund dies with it.

I may feel differently a few weeks from now, but I have never been more pissed off over a Kickstarter until now. I've backed projects where the devs disappeared or the project fell through and I never got what I was promised, and those have upset me less than this. There is a level of arrogance in how Ys Net, Deep Silver and Epic Games is handling this situation, and the fact that they appear to have no concern for how their backers feel about this is absolutely insulting.

 

[gabbo]

I've not held back my disapproval of EGS since I had my eyes opened in the early days of the store. But this situation has actually turned me off gaming a bit. I usually love E3, regardless of what happens. But god damn, this weekend + monday has been hard to swallow.
Glad almost all of my recent gaming has been backlog from the 360 era

 

[Swenhir]

If crowdfunding dies, it's not the fault of the potential backers who got scared off. It's not even completely the fault of Epic or Sweeney. It's the fault of the dirtbags like Deep Silver, YS Net, Yu Suzuki, Snapshot Games and Julian Gollop who poisoned the well by taking the deals they did.

If devs want my support, I'll need to see them take a stand against this kind of behavior, and calling out their fellow (dirtbag) devs for poisoning the well. If I see that, maybe I'll crowdfund another game.

Granted it's already funded, but I was actually going to put some money down on R-Type Final 2 today, but now? Meh.

Kazuma Kijo can blame Yu Suzuki for my lost pledge

No argument from me about how is guilty for crowdfunding's death but I'd rather prevent it and do the right thing. My point was how else can we prevent this kind of last-minute moneybag-throwing Epic is playing at.

Also, my previous post got me banned on Era. Can't accuse the press of having a bias the size of australia, no siree.

I may feel differently a few weeks from now, but I have never been more pissed off over a Kickstarter until now. I've backed projects where the devs disappeared or the project fell through and I never got what I was promised, and those have upset me less than this. There is a level of arrogance in how Ys Net, Deep Silver and Epic Games is handling this situation, and the fact that they appear to have no concern for how their backers feel about this is absolutely insulting.

I don't know what to say and I would feel the same gall in your place. I just think crowdfunding needs to live and in order to do that, these practices by Epic and the studios/pubs willingly going along need to be publicly shamed and pointed at.

 

[Swenhir]

Sure, I'd like to save crowdfunding too.

I'm just saying that ultimately it's not up to me, nor is it really even my responsibility to save it. The devs have to self-police at this point and take some hard stances that allow customers to have faith in them.

If they can't do that, then crowdfunding will be dead for me at least.

I agree and I have nothing to add, I'm on the same boat.

I don't know how I got into trouble if it's not that particular quip but I don't want to derail a metacouncil thread with what happens on other places. It' just that to me it feels like the mods are circling the wagons. It's a shame.

 

[prudis]

At least they are being honest and upfront about it, all they care about is money and you have to respect that to a degree. It's better than the typical bullshit other companies throw at us.
Still it's a shit move and it guarantees that as far as I'm concerned they'll never see a cent from me.

also seems like they promised backers steam key on same day as egs launch based on talks in their discord channel (What the Golf)

 

[Alexandros]

I feel like the Shenmue situation made quite a few console players realize how much Epic's moneyhatting sucks. Not much of a silver lining for those who backed the game but the fact that resentment towards Epic is building up will help in forcing them to stop that much sooner.

By the way, other than Shenmue 3 the moneyhatted games lineup is rather unimpressive. I thought they'd be going after bigger releases.

 

[prudis]

and another ones
+

 

[bobnowhere]

Games more popular on Twitch than Satisfactory and WWZ combined:

• My Summer Car
• Borderlands 2 (x10)
• Dark Souls
• Mortal Kombat 11
• Deathgarden
• The Last of Us
• God of War
• Pathfinder
• Minion Masters (It just won't die)
• Battle Brothers
• Celeste
• and many more

 

[prudis]

soo after the nights announcments the E3 new eggscloosie list looks like this:

• Atomicorps
• Autochess
• The Sojourn
• Castlestorm II
• Falcon Age
• Griftlands (alpha) - Early Access simultaneous
• Chivalry II
• Phantom brigade (Early access) - v1.0 simultaneous
• Shenmue III
• Untitled Goose Game
• WHAT THE GOLF? - backers get steamkey simultaneously
• Zombie Army 4: Dead War

 

[Ge0force]

From ResetEra:

Absolute scumbags.

Disgusting. These devs actually sold their backers to Epic. This is probably the reason why Epic is trying so hard to get exclusivity for crowdfunded games. This is the must scummy way to force people into using a certain store I've ever seen.

But if course, plenty of people are fine with this and some of them are even defending or liking it.

 

[kio]

Well, to be fair they are being honest, because they are telling you they are being... dishonest?

Different speech, same result.
I understand what you mean, but I can't possibly respect a developer who takes someone's money under a pretence, and then tells those same people that they are out of luck, someone came and offered them more. We hope you understand, guys.

also seems like they promised backers steam key on same day as egs launch based on talks in their discord channel (What the Golf)

I had no idea the game had been crowdfunded and that changes things a lot. The fact your product wouldn't even exist without the people who believed in your promises at the start should make you think twice before doing these shady stunts and get-rich-quick schemes. I can understand that they might be afraid their game will fail and they won't have a chance to make another but abusing people's belief is an extremely low and pathetic move. Like I said before, it's all about honesty.
I don't have a personal dog in this particular race although I experienced this feeling with Phoenix Point. I was a backer and you can be sure that after their stunt I won't touch anything Gollop or his team ever make. This is just another dev to had to the soon-to-be-extinct pile.

 

[Xiaomi]

A (probably stupid) analogy hit me a few minutes ago. EGS is the worst nightclub in town that is paying attractive people to stop going to other clubs.

"Hey guys I've got this new nightclub that has all the hottest dudes and chicks in town inside!"
"Sir, there doesn't appear to be any music or alcohol in your nightclub. Also it is on fire. We don't want to go in there."
"But look how hot these dudes and chicks are!"
"Some of them are hot, yes, but you gotta put out that fire, man. Maybe hire a DJ and a bartender."

 

[fantomena]

From ResetEra:

Absolute scumbags.

Okay so now what the fuck do I do.

Call up the consumer bureau here or something.

I chose Steam. Give me the game for Steam you bags of shit.

 

[Dandy]

Okay so now what the fuck do I do.

Call up the consumer bureau here or something.

I chose Steam. Give me the game for Steam you bags of shit.

I think that's probably all you can do, sadly. Also, call your credit card provider and see if you can do a chargeback.

 

[Eferis]

From ResetEra:

Absolute scumbags.

This will likely end up in a class action and probably kill crowdfunding once and for all when it comes to gaming. Disgusting.

 

[Hektor]

 

[Swenhir]

Except it was probably a timed exclusive all along and it was a misguided strategy some genius came up with to soften the blow. They probably thought backers would be thankful once told it was timed.

I'm sure it's going to turn out just right. Right?

 

[JMTHEFOX]

 

[C-Dub]

They're already feeling the heat. This is getting a lot of press, moreso than other EGS exclusives have. I think in part that's the press wanting Shenmue III to fail for some odd reason, but my enemy's enemy etc.

At any rate, my trust in crowdfunding has been completely shattered between this and Barkley 2.

 

[Swenhir]

This is getting a lot of press, moreso than other EGS exclusives have. I think in part that's the press wanting Shenmue III to fail for some odd reason, but my enemy's enemy etc.

That's a huge surprise to me. Are backer's concerns represented in good faith or is it more "look at those angry people lol E3 drama" bullshit? From the articles I have read, they are still siding with Epic and spinning as per usual.

 

[Deleted member 113]

That's a huge surprise to me. Are backer's concerns represented in good faith or is it more "look at those angry people lol E3 drama" bullshit? From the articles I have read, they are still siding with Epic and spinning as per usual.

All articles I've seen mention "some backers" are upset and asking for refunds, and obviously side with the developers and publisher, acting like people who were promised one thing, and then are told they are getting another, and are being denied refunds, are just some "angry mob", like we are gamergators or something.

It's frankly insulting how some people lack the minimum of empathy with fellow gamers, who paid some big $ to help fund a long expected sequel, and then are sold out like this.

 

[RionaaM]

I'm in a hamburger restaurant and the guy next to me just ordered a double-cheese burger without cheese

The only way to eat a hamburger. Or any kind of food.

Cheese is worse than EGS.

 

[Flips]

The only way to eat a hamburger. Or any kind of food.

Cheese is worse than EGS.

reported

 

[m_dorian]

Concerning empathy, I 've read some terrible takes from people commenting on threads back there showing total lack of caring and understanding but most of them were shot down by the mods.
Yet they will return and they wouldn't have learned nothing.
And there were others that were making fun of people showing morals against the EGS free games that reminded me how they dogpiled Geoforge a few weeks back and all these made me feel so much disappointment.
I apologize for whining about another forum, i am just wondering why we can't be nicer to people, is that much to ask?

 

[RionaaM]

No no no, holy fuck no. Not you, Dontnod :'(

 

[Dandy]

No no no, holy fuck no. Not you, Dontnod :'(

 

[Eferis]

No no no, holy fuck no. Not you, Dontnod :'(

Not particularly mad about this, they clearly say they're doing this because they need money and state how long the exclusivity deal is. I can live this, I'll get the game in 2021.

 

[GhostTrick]

By the way, Shibuya Production is involved in both Shenmue III and Twin Mirrors.

 

[RionaaM]

We have to respect it? Screw that!

I mean, if a guy came to you to steal your wallet, would you respect him more if he told you beforehand he was going to do it?

Not necessarily respect, but it's better than hearing "It's for your own good".

Amazing. As if not actually delivering what people actually paid for, and then making up the dumbest lie in the universe "EGS delivers the best experience", now they don't even allow you to refund?

Garbage ass company and I sincerely hope the game bombs. Fuck them.

I don't particularly care for Shenmue 3, but this is bullshit of the highest degree. You know what, I just put Deep Silver's Steam publisher page on ignore. This isn't even the first time they do something like this, so fuck them forever.

 

[Deleted member 113]

Not necessarily respect, but it's better than hearing "It's for your own good".

Ok, let me rephrase that: if a guy comes to steal your wallet, would you respect him less if he told you "It's for your own good", instead of just stealing it?
Personally, I would still be out of my wallet, that guy would still be a f#$/#%& thief, so I can't say it would make much difference to me.

I'm obviously joking, and understand your point, even if personally, I can't say it makes much difference to me.

 

[C-Dub]

By the way, Shibuya Production is involved in both Shenmue III and Twin Mirrors.

I do wonder.

 

[Rosenkrantz]

Who would give a damn about Dontnods movie a year later? I don't particularly care for their games, but to hell with that, fail motherfucker fail.

Shenmue 3 is a blow, but tbh the game looked half-baked in every footage I've seen.

On a bright side, EGS seemingly didn't obtain any actual high profile exclusives, certainly not enough to beat Game Pass and all of the MS' first party coming to Steam.

 

[Digoman]

Well, there were some suspicious "PC" only logos on the Square presentation (that had Steam logos in other games) but otherwise the exclusive list isn't really that impressive. At this point even if you actually force Shenmue 3 backers to go EGS I'm guessing they won't have a lot of "brand loyalty" to stay there.

I still can't believe they are not offering refunds..... any guesses as to when the deal was made? It seemed even more rushed and confusing than usual.

So, what will be next f*** you to customers/backers? Star Citizen EGS exclusive? I guess it would need to actually release for that

 

[Rosenkrantz]

So, what will be next f*** you to customers/backers? Star Citizen EGS exclusive? I guess it would need to actually release for that

I mean, by the time Chris Roberts will be ready, EGS most likely will cease to exist, and we will be dead as well, so I'm not worried about it.

 

[Swenhir]

So, what will be next f*** you to customers/backers? Star Citizen EGS exclusive? I guess it would need to actually release for that

I mean, by the time Chris Roberts will be ready, EGS most likely will cease to exist, and we will be dead as well, so I'm not worried about it.

I'm a backer and I'm taking offense at those cheap shots .

If anything can be said about the Star Citizen/S42 project, it's that CR has tried to do right by the backers. He and the staff in leadership positions really do care about doing the right thing.

 

[Ge0force]

The only way to eat a hamburger. Or any kind of food.

Cheese is worse than EGS.

Even if that was true: that hamburger restaurant is selling many different burgers without cheese. Some people just like to feel important I guess

I don't particularly care for Shenmue 3, but this is bullshit of the highest degree. You know what, I just put Deep Silver's Steam publisher page on ignore. This isn't even the first time they do something like this, so fuck them forever.

I did the same. And Annapurna and Private Division are on ignore as well. If Epic succeeds in establishing store exclusivity deals on pc, these publishers are playing a huge role in it.

By the way: with each moneyhat that Epic pulls off, r/fuckepic gains a boost in followers. They have over 20k now, while the EGS Reddit has like 500 followers

 

[Stone Ocean]

Might be just a perception thing but seeing the backlash over these get louder and louder while the exclusive games themselves get wimpier and wimpier gives me some hope for this fucking industry.

 

[BernardoOne]

I think it's kinda flux with KS. I mean you can't sue them if they don't even manage to complete a crowd funded game. it happens. you know the risks. They can probably argue their proposal doesn't equal a contract for each and every feature and property of the product they initially pitch. Of course it's different and shitty when they manage to complete and release the game, but not in the manner they promised, but if they have no legal issues when not even releasing a product in the end how can they have such issues for in comparison minor alterations like that? I don't know. But I do think they'll reverse the decision due to bad PR if a few big sites pick up on that without kissing Epic ass. Not that they'll be forgiven after that but they simply must comply with these requests, otherwise they appear like complete jerk offs even if one doesn't agree with those asking for a refund (hence the not kissing Epic's ass in coming reports bit).

You can absolutely sue a Kickstarter for not delivering. This is made clear by even Kickstarter themselves. There's no magic that wipes away legal responsibility.

 

[ISee]

Hamburger's without cheese(*).
/Yikes/
Only acceptable if you are lactose intolerant!

(*) Real cheese and not that artificial, nasty, yellow stuff.

---

Back to topic.
KS is really taking a hit here. It's a platform build on faith and goodwill. Those EGS bribes destroy that!
KS needs to change their rules a bit to make promised stores binding, if the game gets released. But they probably won't.

Most EGS exclusives do not interest me but for phoenix point and outer worlds. Both are coming to Microsoft's Game Pass (maybe even at launch?), so I'm surprisingly safe there. Twin Mirror hurts me a tiny bit, but I feel with you shenmu people. Some of you have been waiting for far too long and even went all in to help the project come to life with your own money. That's true dedication.
This egsclusivity only shows how much companies and developers really care about their fans when the "real" money begins to talk.
6.3 million dollars from fans? Peanuts!
Sad and frustrating story that is going to hurt KS development and indy studios in the long run.

 

[RionaaM]

Not particularly mad about this, they clearly say they're doing this because they need money and state how long the exclusivity deal is. I can live this, I'll get the game in 2021.

I need money too, but you won't catch me stealing the PCs from my office and reselling them online.

(hopefully my boss won't catch me either!)

Ok, let me rephrase that: if a guy comes to steal your wallet, would you respect him less if he told you "It's for your own good", instead of just stealing it?
Personally, I would still be out of my wallet, that guy would still be a f#$/#%& thief, so I can't say it would make much difference to me.

I'm obviously joking, and understand your point, even if personally, I can't say it makes much difference to me.

I would hate him to death in both scenarios, but the former would also make me feel insulted

 

[Eferis]

I need money too, but you won't catch me stealing the PCs from my office and reselling them online.

That's not the case with Dontnod though. The game is currently in development and won't be out for a while, they didn't take money from anyone (at least on the customers side). They clearly stated that they're going with Epic because they need money and Epic evidently gave them a better deal compared to the one Bamco originally offered.

As much as I'm annoyed about the game not releasing on every platform at the same time and I won't be purchasing it on the EGS, they didn't screw over anyone, they didn't took money from pre-orders, didn't run a crowdfunding campaign, didn't create a Steam page and didn't even say when and how the game was going to be made available to the public.

Very different from stuff like Shenmue or Metro/Anno or other games that used Steam for marketing.

 

[SRossi]

That's not the case with Dontnod though. The game is currently in development and won't be out for a while, they didn't take money from anyone (at least on the customers side). They clearly stated that they're going with Epic because they need money and Epic evidently gave them a better deal compared to the one Bamco originally offered.

As much as I'm annoyed about the game not releasing on every platform at the same time and I won't be purchasing it on the EGS, they didn't screw over anyone, they didn't took money from pre-orders, didn't run a crowdfunding campaign, didn't create a Steam page and didn't even say when and how the game was going to be made available to the public.

Very different from stuff like Shenmue or Metro/Anno or other games that used Steam for marketing.

How about we don't look for excuses for Devs who go the exclusivity route with Timmy and the spy? Fuck them.

 

[Arkanius]

I paid with PayPal. Do you guys know how to activate a chargeback?

Also, everyone, the link to submit a dispute for the European Union. Just unsure on who to address this: YsNet, Kickstarter or Deep Silver

Online Dispute Resolution | European Commission

 

[lashman]

Cheese is worse than EGS.

hey now ... why are you being so mean to ListeningGarden

not cool, man ... not cool!

 

[Eferis]

How about we don't look for excuses for Devs who go the exclusivity route with Timmy and the spy? Fuck them.

I don't like thinking like that, I consider each case on its own, because they're not the same.

• Instances like Shenmue or Phoenix Point are incredibly scummy and borderline illegal and should be both punished by consumers and sanctioned by an authority (like the EU and other international bodies);
• Stuff like Metro and Anno and, to a lesser extent, those games for which Steam was used as a marketing platform, are dishonest and anti-consumer and consumers should be the ones punishing them;
• Games like Twin Mirror by Dontnod that are currently in development, never used Steam as marketing platform, never promised anything to anyone and just did what every developer does, which is looking for the best investor for their project, are sure annoying but can't be grouped with the two aforementioned cases no metter how pissed off I might be.

All three won't get my money on Epic because fuck them, but the third group will get my money on Steam if I like the game, the second might get my money on Steam depending on how I feel, the first won't get my money no matter where it releases after the Epic deal is over.