|OT| Epic vs Apple/Google - Battle of the Tims

Wok

Wok
Oct 30, 2018
3,453
8,912
113
France

Basically, these are two events.

As for the first event:
  • customers would have the choice between Apple Pay and Epic Pay in the Fortnite app,
  • the escrow would be 30% of what goes through Epic Pay,
  • Apple refused.

As for the second event:
  • customers would be forced to go through Apple Pay in the Fortnite app,
  • the escrow would be 30% of what goes through Apple Pay,
  • Epic refused.
 
Last edited:

Alexandros

MetaMember
Nov 4, 2018
1,522
6,702
113

Basically, these are two events.

As for the first event:
  • customers would have the choice between Apple Pay and Epic Pay in the Fortnite app,
  • the escrow would be 30% of what goes through Epic Pay,
  • Apple refused.

As for the second event:
  • customers would be forced to go through Apple Pay in the Fortnite app,
  • the escrow would be 30% of what goes through Apple Pay,
  • Epic refused.
He should have said so in the tweet. He left out the second part completely.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Swenhir

Arc

MetaMember
Sep 19, 2020
334
1,049
93
https://archive.is/pSM1s (backup in case the WSJ link is paywalled)

Facebook will help Epic in the discovery phase of the trial by providing supporting materials. Glad to see two spunky underdogs team up.
 

gabbo

MetaMember
Dec 22, 2018
2,306
3,604
113
Toronto
https://archive.is/pSM1s (backup in case the WSJ link is paywalled)

Facebook will help Epic in the discovery phase of the trial by providing supporting materials. Glad to see two spunky underdogs team up.
Tim and Zuck off on a wild adventure to rescue indie game devs from the evil clutches of The30%Cut at Castle Cookenstein
 

Monooboe

0,60% PC Gamer 100% Xbox Bro
Oct 10, 2018
4,804
9,935
113
42
Paris, France
perttiteurajarvi.com
It's so amazing, Facebook is mad because it no longer can secretly track everything a user does, but now has to disclose it on iPhone.

Epic and Facebook deserve each other.

I just hope they don't win because I'm going back to iPhone for my next phone haha.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Arc

Arc

MetaMember
Sep 19, 2020
334
1,049
93

Tim has found a new best friend.

It's so amazing, Facebook is mad because it no longer can secretly track everything a user does, but now has to disclose it on iPhone.

Epic and Facebook deserve each other.

I just hope they don't win because I'm going back to iPhone for my next phone haha.
I hate to go off topic, but yeah Facebook is livid about the new iOS privacy settings and has started a media blitz against Apple under the guise of helping small businesses. Honestly it couldn't have happened to a better company. I can only hope the incoming administration takes an antitrust hammer towards Facebook (and the other tech giants as well).
 

Mivey

MeatMember
Sep 20, 2018
1,544
4,547
113
To be honest, I don't see the bad in Apple being open about how ones data is used by one app.
Which is why they are the least bad of the three in my book. If they were ready to open up their hardware in general, from phones to tablets to laptops, and didn't actively make all their stuff work properly only inside their own ecosystem, despite that being far more profitable, then I could see them being "good". Otherwise they are just a normal, self-serving corporation, albeit one that is highly innovative and productive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Monooboe

Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
2,799
6,401
113
To be honest, I don't see the bad in Apple being open about how ones data is used by one app.
Absolutely, it's a good thing. But then again, they lock their OS completely and act like a bridge troll when it comes to money anything.

There's no good guy, and I think that even trying to assess which is least bad is an exercise in untangling complexity that I'm not going to risk my sanity for :p.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Monooboe

Arc

MetaMember
Sep 19, 2020
334
1,049
93
None of the companies are moral champions, but Facebook is easily the worst of the three. Apple and Epic have nothing on profiting from self made political schisms and creating domestic terrorists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lashman

Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
2,799
6,401
113
None of the companies are moral champions, but Facebook is easily the worst of the three. Apple and Epic have nothing on profiting from self made political schisms and creating domestic terrorists.
I'm not sure, really. Consider that Jobs and Apple have stifled innovation and pioneered a business model and software model that is single-handedly responsible for all the walled gardens that popped up since, let alone the money they have deprived countless studios of while running the open software model that could have been into the ground?

I don't think you can discount the stranglehold Apple has and has enabled others to have over that entire side of the software industry. It's far less visible than the stuff FB has done, but I'm sure as hell not eager to try to weigh one impact against the other :p.

Epic though... Yeah, I struggle to see them as having done as much evil.
 

Monooboe

0,60% PC Gamer 100% Xbox Bro
Oct 10, 2018
4,804
9,935
113
42
Paris, France
perttiteurajarvi.com
The reason I want to go back to Apple is because of their walled garden, it is the only way I can be completely sure my data is treated privately and securely.

Like sure Apple is setting in place transparency that hurts those who wants to hide things, and Apple does that just so they can benefit from it. Maybe they are making a search engine, an ad machine to go against all the big hitters, so maybe they are just being the "good guys" to attack future competition. But they are doing it in a customer friendly way. A customer who chose the Apple garden.
 

Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
2,799
6,401
113
The reason I want to go back to Apple is because of their walled garden, it is the only way I can be completely sure my data is treated privately and securely.

Like sure Apple is setting in place transparency that hurts those who wants to hide things, and Apple does that just so they can benefit from it. Maybe they are making a search engine, an ad machine to go against all the big hitters, so maybe they are just being the "good guys" to attack future competition. But they are doing it in a customer friendly way. A customer who chose the Apple garden.
I think you are conflating walled gardens with a strict model of software permissions and disclosure of data usage. I acknowledge that the later has to be either shared out of the company's goodwill or forced to do so by the platform holder, but then again I don't know that WG's are a necessary evil there.

Regarding the former, SElinux comes to mind as an open-source, free alternative that is implemented at the OS model, keeps the user - or at least owner of the hardware - in charge while treating each application and daemon, every folder and file individually. There's no such nonsense as on windows where it's often either be treated as root with full open doors to the OS and kernel or be a guest.
 

Monooboe

0,60% PC Gamer 100% Xbox Bro
Oct 10, 2018
4,804
9,935
113
42
Paris, France
perttiteurajarvi.com
Swenhir It does sound good what you brought as an example, but I'm wondering what the difference between a walled garden and being forced to do something by the platform holder. Aren't they the same thing? Sure a fee is often associated walled gardens but that's not what I at least think of as a walled garden, its more about the checking and forcing that rules are followed set by the platform holder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Swenhir

Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
2,799
6,401
113
Swenhir It does sound good what you brought as an example, but I'm wondering what the difference between a walled garden and being forced to do something by the platform holder. Aren't they the same thing? Sure a fee is often associated walled gardens but that's not what I at least think of as a walled garden, its more about the checking and forcing that rules are followed set by the platform holder.
That's actually a great question. In one case the platform holder gets to decide what the ground rules on your hardware are, in the other you do, and are free to shoot yourself in the foot. I think in that case it's more of a question of having sane defaults, which SEl usually has.

In my perception, it's a problem of software distributors like facebook abusing permissions without transparency, which things like SEl enforce. I don't know that it's the best model, especially from a user-facing standpoint at which Apple excels, but to me that capability is not hinging on having a walled garden in place.

What they do with the data, however, that is something that I don't know can be forced to be disclosed other than by a legal framework, which is cruelly lacking today. I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable with the idea of being happy with corporations like Apple stepping in where the law is failing :p.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Monooboe

Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
2,799
6,401
113
Lobbyists are not exactly engaged in the most lawful good of occupations. See : oil industry, and pretty much the entire dystopia that are politics worldwide.

More of the same for Tim, who wants preferential treatment.
 

prudis

anime occult member
Sep 19, 2018
7,252
16,271
113
The Kingdom of Beer and Porn
twitter.com

ExistentialThought

Coffee Lover ♥☕
Feb 29, 2020
180
504
93
I always wonder who does this fool, and then I see folks celebrating these moves. Even those that acknowledge how Epic could greatly gain from these moves, seem to believe a trickle down theory that will lead to a better industry for everyone, including the customer.

To be clear, too many companies have been allowed to gobble up anything and everything. I just think another company which shows some of those same ambitions, is strange to exclude them from the list needing regulation.

Also, complaining about cloning popular apps after cloning PUBG and putting it into your failing game is quite the mood. I know folks wrote off PUBG as crying over spilt milk, but in hindsight having a game engine maker also as a developer can lead to potential conflicts of interest is something that I feel was shelved too soon. Was it illegal, no, but ethical, probably not.
 

gabbo

MetaMember
Dec 22, 2018
2,306
3,604
113
Toronto
Paying lip service to critics as is the usual with these david vs goliath articles.
Yeah, this developer you've never heard and several others may actually get the brunt of the downsides. It sure gets clicks to make Apple and Google look like unfeeling monoliths but make Epic seem like this small company run by a loveable eccentric. Ignore the company's dollar value and terrible work conditions we didn't follow up on further than PR lines, epic is just like your neighbourhood convenience store fighting for you and your future online!

Also for an article about how Sweeney has always bucked trends and fought for change and taken risks, they don't really provide any examples outside of the possibilities these cases bring. Being a dev from his parents house and then selling an engine is... not new or unique
 
Last edited:
  • This!
Reactions: lashman

Arc

MetaMember
Sep 19, 2020
334
1,049
93
In addition to the EU complaint, Epic is already trying to draft legislation similar to the North Dakota bill in Arizona, Georgia and Massachusetts. At this point they're throwing everything against the wall until something sticks, and something will eventually stick. That's the power of having virtually infinite money and high priced lawyers.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: lashman

Mivey

MeatMember
Sep 20, 2018
1,544
4,547
113
In addition to the EU complaint, Epic is already trying to draft legislation similar to the North Dakota bill in Arizona, Georgia and Massachusetts. At this point they're throwing everything against the wall until something sticks, and something will eventually stick. That's the power of having virtually infinite money and high priced lawyers.
Apple has even more money, and can afford better lawyers. I doubt this will go very far.
 
  • This!
Reactions: Arc