Community MetaSteam | February 2023 - A 90's dystopian adventure in the digiworld.

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Anteater

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People like Skyrim for the amount of things they can do even though they're not done/polished well, you can pick pocket someone, stalk them, sneak into their houses, rob their houses, kill them or whatever, it gives people the illusion that they have a ton of freedom with some sort of consequences, even though that might not always be true or they might not be deep, multiply all of those with other NPCs and questlines and they might get hilarious results/bugs or weird reactions, or quest differences, most of the time they are a bunch of nothing, but it's the "what-ifs" and the dynamics that keep people looking forward for more. That's why sandbox games with crappy combat are often still very much liked especially if the players are already really into the world building and lore, they got used to overlooking the jankiness and are comfortable with it because they grew attached to it. Also PC users have the ability to mod in things they want to see in the game.

People that play RPGs also have the active imagination to imagine what the character they made is like, give them personality, fill in the blanks and add details that are not even programmed into the game.

Especially with how people are still super obsessed with some long going IPs with bad combat/or just have a focus on the whole package, and are still acting like rabid fanboy/girl, it's not really hard to understand why really. It provides them the escapism with a world they're familiar with.
 
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Mor

Mor

Me llamo Willy y no hice la mili, pero vendo Chili
Sep 7, 2018
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That's just another game beaten. The Division 2 finished (JUST ONCE, I'M NOT DOING ALL OVER AGAIN BUT WITH BLACK TUSK FACTION LOL)

It was a-ok, not surprising but enjoyable enough for me to put 20 hours in and finish it. I definitively enjoy this kind of games from time to time but I'm totally into other stuff right now.
 

lashman

Dead & Forgotten
Sep 5, 2018
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Ganado

¡Detrás de tí, imbécil!
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I wonder why Rockstar never released Manhunt 2 on Steam or RGSC...

Well, not like they are even selling the first one on their own store. Also just saw that Bully is 10€ on Steam and 15€ on RGSC. Trickle-down economics they said!
 

EdwardTivrusky

Good Morning, Weather Hackers!
Dec 8, 2018
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People on a discord i'm on have been playing about with PicoCAD and are now also messing about with BlockBench.
It looks like a decent tool for Low-Poly work. It might be of interest to some of you here too.


e.g. Use it to make Mobs in Minecraft

 

Censored

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Oct 8, 2021
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I wonder why Rockstar never released Manhunt 2 on Steam or RGSC...

Well, not like they are even selling the first one on their own store. Also just saw that Bully is 10€ on Steam and 15€ on RGSC. Trickle-down economics they said!
They used to be more console focused developer. Sadly there is no The Warriors, Red Dead Redemption 1 or Red Dead Revolver PC port either. :(
 
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yuraya

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The Bethesda magic everyone is talking about is freedom to me. Their games just give you that sense of freedom other games don't. Some MMOs and a few other singleplayer games like GTA come close to replicating it but they never hit those peaks. Being able to wonder off into any direction at the start of the game and spend hundreds of hours doing nothing while having a good time. They are just really good at creating a world where you aren't being hand held or guided to see the ending credits. Most other open world games try to do it but still fall into the developer traps of pushing you to finish the game.

Skyrim is probably the goat example of this freedom. If a million people play Skyrim then every single one of those people will have a different personal experience with how they discovered world and its characters. And again its just a perk of an open world game. Elden Ring doesn't have that sense of freedom for example and its hundreds of times better than Skyrim. But every once in a while you do crave that freedom of just getting lost in a world that doesn't revolve around the player. You kind of feel like an NPC in their games. Its impressive because they are singleplayer games. You have to respect how committed Bethesda is to the concept.
 

Ganado

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They used to be more console focused developer. Sadly there is no The Warriors, Red Dead Redemption 1 or Red Dead Revolver PC port either. :(
Yeah but Manhunt 2 does have a PC port, it's just that it was only sold on the old Direct2Drive (not to be confused with the new one). However it's not sold anywhere afaik at the moment. There was some controversy regarding its AO rating, which is probably why Steam didn't sell it before.

They are still more console focused developer. PC is for them always in second place.
The were PC focused as DMA Design I think (GTA 1 and 2 on PC is much better than the PS versions). It's GTA III and onwards when they started to cater to the bigger audience. It's much different now, but they still don't get it it seems.
 

yuraya

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You know what i really appreciate about Bethesda RPG's?

They are on Steam.

Unlike Kingdom Hearts.
Remember how close we came to not having Bethesda games on Steam anymore? Ughh that stupid Bethesda launcher. That shit was so bad. I still can't believe Fallout76 didn't launch on Steam lol.

Thank god Xbox bought them. They probably would have continued that bs without the acquisition.

Also we are nearing 2 years since KH games came to EGS. So maybe the exclusivity runs out this time. Tim had to off paid extra otherwise Square are just assholes.
 

Derrick01

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I never thought one day I would take Skyrim's (or Bethesda's in general) defense, and I can't believe I'm actually going to write this one sentence but...
Bethesda games are absolutely not "deep as a puddle"
Yes, I wrote that, and I'll defend it. You said it yourself: many games replicated:

but somehow they are not defended in the same way Skyrim is (in fact many actively dislike them). The truth is none of those things matter, or to be more specific these are not the things that make those games "unique". The reason why those game "fail" in copying Skyrim is exactly because they focus on those things, but those things are superficial, they're the exactly the things someone would replicate and then act surprised when players don't like their games. Now, it's easy to simplify Skyrim by saying "the game is better than the sum of its parts", and I'm obviously not denying things like how skills don't matter, quests have no choices, excessive amount of draugr dungeons, samey enemies, bad or randomized loot, how you clear one dungeon and suddenly you're the grandmaster of every guild in Skyrim, the dumb civil war, that damn Meridia's Beacon, and tons of other things. Skyrim is a very obviously rushed game for a dumb meme release date, but despite all of this it has an insane amount of "details" sprinkeld everywhere. Yeah, the quests are shitty, but the world those quests are in is not. Hell Id argue the actual gameplay of the Elder Scrolls games is ass and always has been, and yet it doesn't matter because the "gameplay" is only windows dressing (it's no wonder the games always have a difficulty slider which can go from enemies can barely cause you 1HP of damage while they die if you sneeze on them to this random draugr has more HP that a boss dragon). In fact I bet everyone hates the Elder Scrolls "gameplay" and yet they keep coming back because of everything else outside of the gameplay
Let's make some examples starting from the dungeons. The dungeons are all the same draugr/bandit/troll/vampire/necromancer lair with the same randomized loot and the same magical hidden door at the end that conveniently returns you to the entrance, and yet almost all of them have something that separates it from one another. Some are very in your face (linked to quest and guided from beginning to the end), others are less (may still have quests linked to them but you need to actually reach the place to activate it) and others actually need the player to discover the environmental storytelling on their own. You don't believe me? Let's see then (with links):
I put a lot of time into skyrim but I don't remember a lot of what you posted and I think it's because I didn't see the big deal to a lot of it. For example the one you listed about how you can learn that the bandits were going to kill their leader, do they actually do it if you don't interfere by killing everyone? Or can you at least spur them on to do it by influencing them in some way (similar to how you could do the Clue quest in Oblivion by tricking people into killing each other). That would be impressive and memorable to me, not just reading that they wanted to on a note but it never actually happens.

When I come across a location I need a reason to care about it, if it just plays out like most places where you walk up kill enemies and loot the place then I end up forgetting it 5 minutes after I leave it and move somewhere else. The notes that almost all games have in places these days are, lets be honest, boring fluff 99% of the time. Like I'm playing Hogwarts now and I found a note somewhere and it was just 2 people talking about the most mundane stuff that had 0 to do with me or the area I was in. There was no story being told, no clue to a puzzle or loot stash, no background info on characters or their motivations. This is a problem most games have including Bethesda games, it'd be like walking into some random person's house and finding a note to remember to pick up milk later. As for environmental storytelling I'm not gonna rag on BGS too much there, I think we've all seen the memes about skeletons in fallout being propped up on a couch out in the open like 150 years after they died, so I'm not really a big fan of the way they typically do that lol.

That's not to say there's no value in environmental storytelling or notes laying around I just don't think bethesda does a good job at that, and to be fair there's very few that do. It takes very strong writing to make seemingly mundane locations or dungeons interesting and it's a big reason why New Vegas was held to such high regard. In that game when I found a note I knew it was likely going to be relevant to me in some way, even if ultimately all it did was gradually tell a story of why the vault I'm in fell apart. I do think more open world games could stand to have the kind of interactions you posted, or the "random" encounters that pop up in RDR 2. In that way I think BGS is on the right track or have the right idea, but until they improve their writing quality (which has always been a weak point for them) I don't think I'll ever be able to get too into their games. That's because the primary reason I play those games is to explore, and if I'm not getting great quests and writing, I'm not getting great loot because of their loot scaling systems, and I'm not getting great combat encounters because they're always 10 years behind everyone else in smooth, well done combat systems then I'm ultimately left wondering what point there is to keep searching areas out.
 
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Arc

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Yeaaaah, I think it did well
Looking at next week, Wild Hearts will do well if it has positive word-of-mouth. It's already 23rd on the global charts and the PC audience has shown they like monster hunting games. On the other hand, Returnal's performance is iffy as it isn't currently in the top 100.
 

NarohDethan

There was a fish in the percolator!
Apr 6, 2019
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Remember how close we came to not having Bethesda games on Steam anymore? Ughh that stupid Bethesda launcher. That shit was so bad. I still can't believe Fallout76 didn't launch on Steam lol.

Thank god Xbox bought them. They probably would have continued that bs without the acquisition.

Also we are nearing 2 years since KH games came to EGS. So maybe the exclusivity runs out this time. Tim had to off paid extra otherwise Square are just assholes.
Who knew Fortnite kids playing on their mom's phone aren't buying games on a computer, something that there's a ver high chance they've never used.
 

yuraya

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Who knew Fortnite kids playing on their mom's phone aren't buying games on a computer, something that there's a ver high chance they've never used.
Funniest thing is Epic expected those kids to grow out of Fortnite and stay on EGS buying their exclusives. Instead most probably wonder off to play Valorant or mobile games. And those who continue to play Fortnite don't care for anything other than Fortnite.

Valve would have probably ran into same issue if they launched Steam with games like CSGO or DOTA. At some point the game becomes bigger than the platform and it will make it harder for you to actually run a successful storefront.

I still feel like EGS would have been much more successful if they went the Blizzard route. They should have never cancelled Paragon and continued to develop Unreal Tournament + a few additional first party games. Then they acquire stuff like Rocket League and wtvr else. And you actually your own massive BNet launcher with an identity n everything. Instead Sweeney just flushed a lot off money down to toilet on pointless or low quality exclusives which brought nothing but bad press.
 

MegaApple

Just another Video Game Enthusiast
Sep 20, 2018
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Crazy how huge of an influence Wizardry has had in the video game industry but it also feels like it hardly gets the recognition that it deserves (well at least outside of Japan, as mentioned in the video)


Also the company going out of business makes sense as peoples taste in games was just shifting and they were in a weird place.
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS!!!

If you've passing interest in video game history and/or love for RPGs, you SHOULD know about the absolute influence of Wizardry and Ultima.
 

Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
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Derrick, I actually agree with a lot of your takes on Skyrim, but I'm curious about one thing. I seem to recall (and if I'm incorrect then ignore this whole thing!) that you were a pretty big fan of FF7R. I recently completed that, and while it's competently made (more so than many things S-E publishes these days), and I really enjoyed the game overall, it's also incredibly uninspired design wise, IMHO. The overall progression, to me, seems to be akin to someone following a checklist: start with linear story; simple dungeon/battle sequences; first "city" area; story/battle/dungeon sequence; second "city" area -- now we need some (mostly phoned in) sidequests; and repeat that sequence culminating in the largest open "city" area with the most side quests followed by the longest story/battle/dungeon sequence. And each "open/side-quest" area is precisely a re-tread of the areas you previously traversed in story sequences.

Again, it's not bad by any stretch of the imagination, but even Skyrim is far less formulaic, IMHO.

I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS!!!

If you've passing interest in video game history and/or love for RPGs, you SHOULD know about the absolute influence of Wizardry and Ultima.
And if you want to gain more perspective on both of those, and their influence, reading the CRPG and JRPG books (published by Bitmap books) is a great way to do that.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
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Also we are nearing 2 years since KH games came to EGS. So maybe the exclusivity runs out this time. Tim had to off paid extra otherwise Square are just assholes.
I guess it could be possible, but I don't really see Timmy paying for 2 years of exclusivity for Kingdom Hearts of all things.
I think it's more likely that 1) Square wants to leverage the Kingdom Hearts 4 marketing/hype cycle as marketing for a proper Steam release of the other games as well instead of their usual unceremonious shadow drop or 2) they forgot, like they forgot to release The Last Remnant remaster on PC.
 

Censored

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CHAOS;HEAD Love Chu☆Chu! english fan translation announced.
Not only are we translating CHAOS;HEAD Love Chu☆Chu!, but we’ve been translating it. The game’s translation is 65% complete, and the editing pass has already kicked off, too!

For those unaware, Love Chu☆Chu!—or C;H LCC for short—is a direct, canon sequel to CHAOS;HEAD NOAH. The game is a parody of traditional dating sims and seeks to tie up a lot of the unresolved character arcs from NOAH.

We’ve been working on the game for a good while now, as the process of working on NOAH has been a very, very long road. Over that time, some of our team members found themselves without much to do, so they decided: Why not make some use out of that time?

Previously, we struggled with organization during the NOAH process, but we’re taking steps to improve that for LCC. So, for those concerned, this project should not take nearly as long as NOAH did—we’ll make sure of that. We still have a lot of work ahead of us, but not several years’ worth of it.

However, a good chunk of that work will be the port we’re making for the game, which will be based on our MAGES. Engine reimplementation, Impacto. Development on this has been slowly progressing for years, and we will be putting our all into it once NOAH has been made as smooth as possible. …After a bit of a break, that is. NOAH was… pretty taxing, to say the least.

Regardless, we hope you’re as excited to experience this game as we are to dive into it!
 

Derrick01

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Derrick, I actually agree with a lot of your takes on Skyrim, but I'm curious about one thing. I seem to recall (and if I'm incorrect then ignore this whole thing!) that you were a pretty big fan of FF7R. I recently completed that, and while it's competently made (more so than many things S-E publishes these days), and I really enjoyed the game overall, it's also incredibly uninspired design wise, IMHO. The overall progression, to me, seems to be akin to someone following a checklist: start with linear story; simple dungeon/battle sequences; first "city" area; story/battle/dungeon sequence; second "city" area -- now we need some (mostly phoned in) sidequests; and repeat that sequence culminating in the largest open "city" area with the most side quests followed by the longest story/battle/dungeon sequence. And each "open/side-quest" area is precisely a re-tread of the areas you previously traversed in story sequences.

Again, it's not bad by any stretch of the imagination, but even Skyrim is far less formulaic, IMHO.
I do love FF7R but it's because it's an established world and cast that I already love which gives it a huge advantage right from the start. The level design is probably its weakest aspect but they found a way to keep it mostly interesting compared to something like FF13 which were literal corridors for 25 hours and no towns at all to break up the pace. The side quests it has are junk but it has like 15 of them in the whole game so it's not a huge deal. I think the pacing issues it had were mostly a result of limiting the game to midgar only and trying to make something that felt worthy of a full price tag because even though there are gamers who say they're ok with 20 hour RPGs most people aren't and wouldn't buy that. As for part 2 I would rather they scrapped the world map stuff if the only other option were to make it open world and just have you go from town to town with dungeons in between.

There's also the fact that as I get older I find I hate open world games more and more and would rather play a linear or hub game even if it just funnels me from story beat to beat. It's not a hard definitive stance, I still love New Vegas and think it's one of the best RPGs ever, but it's also a game that was so incredibly well designed despite bethesda hanging obsidian out to dry with its dev schedule. But each year the size of these open worlds get bigger, some get emptier (botw killed me with this) and some go the ubi route of filling them with boring junk, I had a conversation in discord about open worlds a while back and it made me go and look at my goty lists and I only had 1 open world game on it in the last 5 years and that was Genshin. I think I'm just tired of how open worlds are handled by almost everyone. Pivoting back to bethesda specifically I think they'd have the best shot of giving this game type a shot in the arm if they had better writing and stopped dumbing their games down so much with each new one.
 

Mivey

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CHAOS;HEAD Love Chu☆Chu! english fan translation announced.

Now that's a game that doesn't even have a snowballs chance in hell in getting accepted by Steam, even if mages was interested in bringing it to the West, so nice that CoZ is translating and porting (?) it over.
 
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STHX

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I put a lot of time into skyrim but I don't remember a lot of what you posted and I think it's because I didn't see the big deal to a lot of it. For example the one you listed about how you can learn that the bandits were going to kill their leader, do they actually do it if you don't interfere by killing everyone? Or can you at least spur them on to do it by influencing them in some way (similar to how you could do the Clue quest in Oblivion by tricking people into killing each other). That would be impressive and memorable to me, not just reading that they wanted to on a note but it never actually happens.

When I come across a location I need a reason to care about it, if it just plays out like most places where you walk up kill enemies and loot the place then I end up forgetting it 5 minutes after I leave it and move somewhere else. The notes that almost all games have in places these days are, lets be honest, boring fluff 99% of the time. Like I'm playing Hogwarts now and I found a note somewhere and it was just 2 people talking about the most mundane stuff that had 0 to do with me or the area I was in. There was no story being told, no clue to a puzzle or loot stash, no background info on characters or their motivations. This is a problem most games have including Bethesda games, it'd be like walking into some random person's house and finding a note to remember to pick up milk later. As for environmental storytelling I'm not gonna rag on BGS too much there, I think we've all seen the memes about skeletons in fallout being propped up on a couch out in the open like 150 years after they died, so I'm not really a big fan of the way they typically do that lol.
Oh, but I fully agree with you. In the end those notes, those hidden dialogues amount to nothing. The gameplay is still the same repetitive whack-a-draugr. But this is also where this other post I'll quote comes into the picture:
People that play RPGs also have the active imagination to imagine what the character they made is like, give them personality, fill in the blanks and add details that are not even programmed into the game.
I'll add to this post: this is only my opinion or the way I see it, but let's say I sneak into someone's house and don't find anything. No shopping list, no food in the fridge, no cooking pot, just a table, one chair near the table and one person that permanently stands up near the door without ever sitting in that one chair. If this was a random videogame this person could be a quest giver/target or just have some fluff talk about the weather and ultimately the lack of those things or the lack of any behavior would bother no one. But if this was real life I would immediatly ask myself "What does he eat?" or "How is he alive?". Suspension of disbelief is something we all do everytime we read books, watch movies and play games and honestly I'm not bothered by this. However, going back to this one room, simply adding a cooking pot and a fridge would already remove the first question from my mind (and adding a bathroom/bedroom would also remove the second one). Opening the fridge and seeing it lacks milk, finding a note on top of it that says "I should buy milk later" serves absolutely no purpose, but it makes this one otherwise pointless room feel like a real place inhabited by a real person. Of course, you can even have the milk note be important for a quest (speaking of Elder Scrolls, a dark brotherhood quest to kill this person could be completed by poisoning his milk), but in reality almost all notes are just pointless fluff. Of course you don't need those things to get immersed in a videogame, your immagination can fill every blank, but it's those notes that make the difference between a named npc who goes on with his life even when the player is not there, and some guy who is obsessed with sunny days. In the end a great game is still great even without those things, but adding some fluff, making each place have it's own name, having an explanation on why this one enemy is dressed this way even if completely unrelated to quests/progression makes the difference with something being memorable or not.
And this isn't an Elder Scrolls thing either:
- Hitman is filled with that since the classic series: did the first mission in the classic Hitman 2 needed an unarmed housekeeper in the kitchen? No, especially since unlike the other 2 civilians (the flower guy and the delivery boy) she serves no purpose in helping 47 getting the kill and escaping. But having an housekeeper in a big house turns this "videogame" place into something that at least feels "a real rich guy home"
- Is there any point in Deus Ex Human Revolution to entering the offices inside Sarif Industries? Nope, but doing that and grabbing the chocolate snacks inside will still cause those Sarif employers to mail Jenses to ask him to put a stop to the "snacks stealer" (which is actually him). No quest happens, no additional interactions, just like there is no other point in entering the women's bathroom in the original Deus Ex but the fact Manderlay chews on JC for doing it makes it more memorable
- All right it seems I'm getting carried away in making lists these days so let's just cut this short today, but there are tons of games that also fit the bill (classic Thief, System Shock, even japanese games like BOTW and the one bokoblin camp where you can see they were practicing archery by finding a bunch of arrows near a target not far away from the camp). It's this small things that are pointless but are still added in games to make them more memorable. They are the cherry on top, the one thing that makes something "better than the sum of its parts". It's not just notes either: Even level design and enemy placement can enhance the "immersiveness" or a game world. Demon/Dark Souls is really good at this as well as many other games. Music and ambience sounds can do it too. I feel this is especially significant for videogames because of they interactivity as a medium and ultimately goes back to the original point many posts ago on "why do bethesda games get defended while other that copy them don't" and it's exactly because of these little things (in my opinion at least. Others can probably have their own reasons)

Just to close off this point: let's change genres. Why are Shadow Tactics and Desperados III so loved and remembered? Because of course they have great mission design, but also because the stages are filled with many small details that make the missions more than "videogame levels", while other stealth strategy games were forgotten a few weeks after release because they ended up being very unremarkable
 

yuraya

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I guess it could be possible, but I don't really see Timmy paying for 2 years of exclusivity for Kingdom Hearts of all things.
I think it's more likely that 1) Square wants to leverage the Kingdom Hearts 4 marketing/hype cycle as marketing for a proper Steam release of the other games as well instead of their usual unceremonious shadow drop or 2) they forgot, like they forgot to release The Last Remnant remaster on PC.
Honestly at this point the longer we wait the better off the eventual release will be. Because maybe after a certain length they won't just release them on Steam but they will do the smart thing and bundle them together for an affordable price. Whether its a contractual thing or an exclusivity extension its only for the best at this point. I think World War Z was the only big hit on EGS that took longer than a year to come to Steam. So that was probably an additional moneyhat so its possible Sweeney and Square agreed to a longer deal day 1. If they don't announce it in the next 2 months I think Square must have gotten the most amazing deal ever lol.
 

Li Kao

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Curious to see Wild Hearts reviews. For the time being all I see is another Monster Hunter rip off, big PSVita days energy. But I will be glad to be proven wrong, so yeah, gimme the reviews.
 

MegaApple

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.
And if you want to gain more perspective on both of those, and their influence, reading the CRPG and JRPG books (published by Bitmap books) is a great way to do that.
Oh I already did that.
In fact I've been reading on classic PC RPGs and games history before these books were made, they just increased my appreciation even further.

Moreover, I've been following CRPG book even before its 1.0 release.
Crazy how huge of an influence Wizardry has had in the video game industry but it also feels like it hardly gets the recognition that it deserves (well at least outside of Japan, as mentioned in the video)
Game Makers Toolkit made a video about it too, which also mentions Ultima's influence as well.
This is shorter and succinct.

EVERYONE should watch it if they ever enjoyed RPGs in their life.
 

Ganado

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Now that's a game that doesn't even have a snowballs chance in hell in getting accepted by Steam, even if mages was interested in bringing it to the West, so nice that CoZ is translating and porting (?) it over.
It kinda depends on what ESRB says I guess. There is sexual content for sure but still nothing like REALLY graphic so who knows.
 

MegaApple

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Curious to see Wild Hearts reviews. For the time being all I see is another Monster Hunter rip off, big PSVita days energy. But I will be glad to be proven wrong, so yeah, gimme the reviews.
Monster Hunter is almost a lifestyle at this point. Any hunter game will look like a ripoff.
Lets hope they just do something that distinguishes them apart.
 

MomoVideo

ķ͕͕̍̅͋ḭ̼͂̕lļ͓̞̙̀͗͆̊ ͉͛m͕̲̮̆̒̐̍͢e ͠
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yeah
i like the idea of gameplay being focused on traps
but on other hand this is Omega Force + EA ... thats 2 red signs
I think the biggest issue will be the amount of content. The game launches with 20-something monsters, which compared to Monster Hunter is not a lot...
 
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Mivey

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It kinda depends on what ESRB says I guess. There is sexual content for sure but still nothing like REALLY graphic so who knows.
Valve only allowed the much tamer base after a huge outcry from fans. I don't see them changing their anti VN views to the point of allowing a dating sim spin-off to be allowed, especially as (all?) of the characters are underage. They are (the Japanese equivalent of) high-schoolers, after all.
 
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Alextended

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Just caught up to the superbowl stuff. Flash, Guardians 3 and Indy 5, can't wait :D
 
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