People are treating these delayed launches as new launches at a reduced price. If games do well on Steam, even after releasing somewhere else first, Steam does well.
News Epic Games Store
- Thread starter Blizniak
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Yup, that is correct.
Because depriving them of their ability to gaslight customers is a great thing.
It's not about validation, especially from journalists and the industry. I am fully aware of the disdain they have for their audience. The customer base at large isn't. Like it or not the press has the power to influence casual or mainstream PC gamers towards a position that will make the fight against exclusivity that much harder. So for me, the press having no way of spinning things into something that is positive for Epic is not just good, it's great. An EGS exclusive flopping on Steam gives them an easy out: "Everyone already bought it on EGS". People waiting and buying on Steam has them stumped because what kind of argument could they possibly make?
That is not a realistic outcome, which is why I wrote "best possible outcome". Most of the studios Epic courted are established and big enough to be able to handle lower than expected sales.
I'm not gonna lie, I've had juvenile daydreams of EGS stans on the developer side crashing & burning. "We sold 2 copies on EGS and all the other platforms are now treating us like we're poison. Gotta close up shop. We were such fools."
Yeah, it's totally dumb. As well as cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Guess we're emotional creatures, lol.
Yeah, it's totally dumb. As well as cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Guess we're emotional creatures, lol.
Very true. But isn't "devs are getting more money" the number 1 reason why people are defending Epic's moneyhats? And also the major reason why these devs are accepting Epic's deal in the first place?
I don't really believe that Metro Exodus doing well is a negative outcome for Epic. After all, the game sold 700k copies on EGS which is huge, and the Steam version doing well is a reassurance for the devs that people won't boycott them despite going EGS exclusive.
In the end, the only losers are Valve because they lost 700k sales, and a huge amount of gamers who had to wait 12 months before they could play Metro Exodus on their platform of choice.
Things would have been different if Metro Exodus had underperformed on EGS and sold well on Steam of course.
Oh I don't mean exclusives between pc and consoles - that's a thin wall that comes up and goes down in lulls over time. I mean it's normalized that the big three consoles have their own platform exclusives that don't appear on the other consoles - 3rd party developed games I mean. It's normalized there, more rare than it was in the past, but still occurs.
Publishers have either fully come around to the idea (EA, MS to a degree, Bethesda) or still think they're big enough to avoid being viable across the board on pc (say, Activision Blizzard and Riot with LoL)
Shenmue III flopped because it wasn't a good game. It didn't even live up to the first two games, let alone people's expectations of what Shenmue should be in 2019.
But I also think the communication around the game was abysmal. Not just the Epic thing, though that dominated every discussion about Shenmue III during the E3 before its release and the status of refunds bogged it down for months after. But even before the EGS thing, YsNet, Deep Silver and Shibuya Productions just never communicated the game well. The Kickstarter was, at times, an embarrassment. Screenshots and videos released looked dreadful, had poor framerates and just shouldn't have been released, and the campaign kept itself so secretive to the point that these screenshots and video releases were a Big Deal, and got a lot of negative attention because of it.
As a result, the narrative around the game going into E3 2019 was that it was going to suck. Then they fucked over a third of their fans and created a schizm in the extended fan community, effectively alienating their entire PC-only fanbase and creating a negative attitude about the studio to others. I know friends who thought the game was looking rough but were going to give it a chance when it came out because they loved the first two, but noped the fuck out as soon as YsNet told their PC fans to get fucked by not even offering refunds.
Now Deep Silver are almost certainly out for Shenmue IV. Unless Papa SEGA decides it needs to sort this mess out YsNet will probably need to return to crowdfunding to get Shenmue IV on its way. We all know how that will go.
But I also think the communication around the game was abysmal. Not just the Epic thing, though that dominated every discussion about Shenmue III during the E3 before its release and the status of refunds bogged it down for months after. But even before the EGS thing, YsNet, Deep Silver and Shibuya Productions just never communicated the game well. The Kickstarter was, at times, an embarrassment. Screenshots and videos released looked dreadful, had poor framerates and just shouldn't have been released, and the campaign kept itself so secretive to the point that these screenshots and video releases were a Big Deal, and got a lot of negative attention because of it.
As a result, the narrative around the game going into E3 2019 was that it was going to suck. Then they fucked over a third of their fans and created a schizm in the extended fan community, effectively alienating their entire PC-only fanbase and creating a negative attitude about the studio to others. I know friends who thought the game was looking rough but were going to give it a chance when it came out because they loved the first two, but noped the fuck out as soon as YsNet told their PC fans to get fucked by not even offering refunds.
Now Deep Silver are almost certainly out for Shenmue IV. Unless Papa SEGA decides it needs to sort this mess out YsNet will probably need to return to crowdfunding to get Shenmue IV on its way. We all know how that will go.
I wonder how well Shenmue 3 would've performed has it been released on Steam, I don't doubt that it still would've flopped, but the actual numbers couldn't be any worse than what it did on EGS.
Probably not much better. The day 1 price was too high.
But there might've been a bit more positivity going into its release, and it could've seen success in the sales tail after the price got cut to something more in line with the production values and overall quality of the game.
I'm not discounting that happening again after a year, but the brand is tainted at this point. The EGS thing is just another thing on the list for Shenmue III - YsNet are generally seen as untrustworthy and you know they're going to stupidly see the Steam release as an opportunity to sell it at full price to Epic refuseniks.
Maybe it's because I've a very personal experience with abusers and narcissists, but to me it's clear that people like these will never let you be right. They will spin, lie, refuse to look at facts, deflect, and at the very last resort say it wasn't that bad and that the consumer base deserved it. Their toolbox is bottomless.
That's kind of my point, you are anticipating their bad-faith arguments but I'm afraid they'll just whip out another one instead. I disagree with you that they'll have no way of spinning things, if anything else the spinning will become more transparent and obscene or they'll just fall silent entirely. Make no mistake, I'd like to see them forced to admit that exclusivity doesn't work, that people didn't behave like docile cattle shepherded by the press on one side and the games on the other. I just don't think they will. It's still a very good outcome, putting the press aside, and I'm glad exclusivity practices and Epic got the flak they deserved.
The kind of argument they could make would be moving the goalposts : "Exclusivity tactics are harmless and really necessary after all. Despite all that, people still bought on Steam, meaning that Epic was right, successful [with vague metrics] and should keep going." It's kind of the bullshit rehash of what they were saying before. I mean, you've seen the hate they have toward Valve. To them, Steam's continued state of being in the PC gaming's good favors is unacceptable.
I think it's reasonable to say that my position amounts to throwing my hands up in the air and giving up against the press, but given the personality types and behaviors involved, I can't help think it's the healthy thing to do. I'm thankful if you and others still want to hold them accountable and I will enjoy at least watching them squirm.
I probably misspoke but what I meant was for the games to sell really badly, resulting in a clear-cut financial failure for the products labeled with the stigma of exclusivity. I just wish that that stigma extended over to their lifetime on Steam so that the message that they can't have their cake and eat it was painfully clear. Hindsight is 20/20 and the realism of it becomes apparent when the outcome is observed, I still think it is the right thing to do.
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Shenmue 3 announcement on E3 caused all sorts of excietment, even on people who had not even played the originals, with the reaction videos and word of mouth the kickstarter broke records.
Shenmue 3 launch should had been a celebration, even if it would not sold much better, the good will garthered probably would made it worth for the legs of the game and the future of the franchise overall, instead Epic and Deep Silver tainted what should had been a great milestone in gaming.
As a long time Shenmue fan, after all that happend, I just don´t care for Shenmue anymore.
Shenmue 3 launch should had been a celebration, even if it would not sold much better, the good will garthered probably would made it worth for the legs of the game and the future of the franchise overall, instead Epic and Deep Silver tainted what should had been a great milestone in gaming.
As a long time Shenmue fan, after all that happend, I just don´t care for Shenmue anymore.
bad gameplay and high prices never stood in the way of a game getting good sales on steam.
Yup. It's not even the nature of it being EGS exclusive, as disappointing as that is. It's the fact that they treated fans asking for a refund like crap. Even when they were forced to promise refunds it took them months to get the refunds to people.
And in that time the animosty in the fan community and extended gaming communities still positive about Shenmue turned sour very quickly.
Shenmue fans have always been quite tightly-knit because we all wanted one thing: a chance for Yu Suzuki to make Shenmue III. Deep Silver and EGS pretty much decimated whole communities built around that love of the series, which just don't feel the same anymore.
That right there is the goal. That's why it's a good thing to deprive them of any sort of argument.
"FUCK EPIC GAMES STORE," says Google's listing for Steam
Thanks to what seems to be a hiccup with a Metro Exodus review on Steam, Google search results for Valve's store have something rude to say about Epic's one.
www.rockpapershotgun.com
Steam is so unprofessional. Im sticking with my main man of morals Tim.
"Welcome to Steam. Fuck Epic Games Store".
Sounds about right.
Sounds about right.
At least RPS is not insinuating that Valve wrote it.
It is funny, and in that regard possibly worth writing about.
How the information is presented is important though. Insinuating Valve did it or were hacked, when in reality it's an error, is pathetic.
How the information is presented is important though. Insinuating Valve did it or were hacked, when in reality it's an error, is pathetic.
This and this.
I've stumbled upon the news on PCGN, and by god, it's titled literally "Steam’s website briefly suggests we “Fuck Epic Games Store”", and the content is 15% about this hiccup (most likely caused by Google, btw), and 85% about Epic Games Store! The platform preferred by the best publishers and developers! Thanks to its great prices! Awesome fees! Exceptional exclusive games! Free games left and right!
Jeez.
When there are so few new Epic timed exclusives that needs to be written about, PC gaming journalism tends to write about other things.
Like seriously though, las tyear I felt that a new big game became EGS timed exclusive every week. Now there's so few of them. Either Tim is prepraring an avalance of EGS exclusives or fewer and fewer devs and pubs wants in on the Epic store if it means they have to abandon Steam for 1 year.
Like seriously though, las tyear I felt that a new big game became EGS timed exclusive every week. Now there's so few of them. Either Tim is prepraring an avalance of EGS exclusives or fewer and fewer devs and pubs wants in on the Epic store if it means they have to abandon Steam for 1 year.
If Sony truly are investing on PC like the rumors (Sources: Horizon: Zero Dawn Is Coming To PC) indicate then I can see Horizon Zero Dawn not launching on Steam for at least a full year and instead release on the presumed PS Launcher + EGS.
If memory serves the only title published by SIE on PC is not available on Steam.
Jason Schreier stated he had heard that it's currently planned for Steam and EGS.
thats not stopping another scoosie batch video being posted there
Sometimes I have the idea about some gaming journalists/marketeers that they really think their audience is comprised of idiots.
Of course you can't beat free but that doesn't justify the praise they give to Tim's apolitical store, they should have known better.
I am also tired of the "better for Devs" excuse-argument because it not often right. And that certainly not apply to anyone, see Phoenix Point or Shenmue 3 Devs. The goodwill they lost can't be bought with the Sweeney currency.
Also, some of the press should decide who they want as their audience, the moneyhatted Devs and some useful idiots or the rest of us.
Of course you can't beat free but that doesn't justify the praise they give to Tim's apolitical store, they should have known better.
I am also tired of the "better for Devs" excuse-argument because it not often right. And that certainly not apply to anyone, see Phoenix Point or Shenmue 3 Devs. The goodwill they lost can't be bought with the Sweeney currency.
Also, some of the press should decide who they want as their audience, the moneyhatted Devs and some useful idiots or the rest of us.
According to the report it's not finalized yet. I really hope Sony has a new PC Launcher in the pipes because this would give them further strategic incentive to release even more exclusives to PC. Besides, like EA/Ubi/Microsoft they need their launcher where they control everything.
They'd be dumb not to do it. They can still release on Steam and/or EGS like Microsoft. I can easily envision a PS Launcher as an extension of the Playstation ecosystem with trophies, cloud saves etc..
I don't think releasing on Steam or EGS only makes much sense. Those games don't need additional sales, there is always a vision behind every move. Those games were created first to move consoles, now they could be useful to push a fully fledged PS Launcher on PC where they would take 100% of every transaction.
Am I the only that remembers the days when Sony used to publish games on PC regularly, and then they moved out as the PS2 generation wore on (leaving SOE with a couple MMOs for a while as their only pc presence). Sony has enough bravado they'll likely try to push a PSPC launcher that extends their current ecosystem like MS does (though in a different way) but that might include sales on other stores that tie back into a PSN account/launcher anyway.
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I completely agree.
I think "pushing" a new launcher makes perfect sense for them. Playstation (the console) or PC (hypothetically) they have to keep you in their ecosystem somehow.
What I think would be dumb would be to make true exclusives for that specific launcher. Best to leave the choice, 70% of a big number is still better than 100% of much fewer.
And yeah obviously Steam and EGS versions would have some sort of PSN login like literally all publishers do (EA, Ubi, Microsoft).
They could make timed exclusives to their new launcher though, and even further entice people with more aggressives prices.
I'm just trying to make sense of the rumors regarding a game like Horizon potentially coming to another platform. There has to be something big behind it.
Such a move, if confirmed, has likely been fiercely debated.
A Playstation launcher for Windows is the only logical explanation to me. Sony could have their sight on the only platform they could realistically expand, Microsoft's Xbox is out of the question (likewise, Microsoft are not rushing to port their AAA stuff to Playstation....), PC is the only answer here.
I'd totally buy from such a launcher. After all Microsoft made me a very happy Xbox customer by releasing their games on my platform of choice, so could Sony really.
Their PC strategy would likely be very different from Microsoft though, they would not release huge AAA games on PC and PS4/PS5 day one. I can see Sony providing their new launcher with oldish exclusives but not newer (2019-) ones.
Super interested to see where this is going. Hopefully Jason's sources have spoken true.
Same.
It's Google trying to be intelligent and find text that best matches query.
(that's why it appears onlyvwith "steam store" search and not just Steam)
Lol, indeed.
Googling steam store right now I get the title for this game in the text, because it has Store in it:
Yup, but it could either be Google, or Valve messing up with the page metadata. (Considering how different people get different results, I'm pretty sure is Google's fault though)
I don't think that Sony will do another launcher. There are already telltale signs that customers have had enough of that shit.
Hmm I don't know.
If they want to go down the "Gaming as a service" route (in the future), their own launcher would make sense. The resistance against first party exclusives being bound to specific first party launchers isn't as big as the resistance against epics third party exclusivity.
That said, the first couple of ports could be on third party launchers, just to test the waters.
If they want to go down the "Gaming as a service" route (in the future), their own launcher would make sense. The resistance against first party exclusives being bound to specific first party launchers isn't as big as the resistance against epics third party exclusivity.
That said, the first couple of ports could be on third party launchers, just to test the waters.
I'm not sure about that at all. If Sony are to truly invest on PC they have to have a place where they control everything. That does not necessarily means exclusives to that specific launcher.
Or maybe they'll just settle with a PSN login on Steam and EGS. But that would not be very ambitious, if I was Sony I'd absolutely make sure a feature-complete launcher is ready to be deployed with trophies, cloud saves etc.
Full integration within the Playstation ecosystem.
It makes sense to me at least.
I don't know, I'd download a Sony PC launcher for MLB: The Show alone. Don't much care for any of their other stuff (AAA 3rd-person prestige games). But I've always loved The Show.
It's kinda like EA's Origin client. I downloaded it for The Sims 4 of and by itself. So while I did nab all those free 'On The House' games they were giving away back when, it's still just my Sims 4 launcher.
Reminder of the leaks which have not yet turned true:
- Anno 1503
InnerSpace(next week)- Next Up Hero
- Pyre
Rayman 3(Rayman Legends was given away, maybe instead of Rayman 3)- The Settlers History Collection
- Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
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Sony wouldnt need to develop a whole new launcher, they could probably just adapt their already-existing PS Now launcher. Its not exactly a great launcher, but if they tinker with it to make it more like a conventional store/launcher that allows purchase and download instead of just streaming...
(but yeah, we do not need more launchers on PC....
...and I dont even have all those that exist installed...)
(but yeah, we do not need more launchers on PC....
...and I dont even have all those that exist installed...)
Yeah, repurposing the PSNow launcher would be a great idea. Make it possible to play games locally on it + streaming.Sony wouldnt need to develop a whole new launcher, they could probably just adapt their already-existing PS Now launcher. Its not exactly a great launcher, but if they tinker with it to make it more like a conventional store/launcher that allows purchase and download instead of just streaming...
(but yeah, we do not need more launchers on PC....
...and I dont even have all those that exist installed...)
We are of course getting ahead of ourselves at this stage but how can we not ? This could be such a huge move for Sony.
I'd buy Horizon (a real, nicely scalable PC build, not interested in the least in 720p streaming) in an heartbeat at whatever price.
me too! Im playing it via PS Now, but cant stomach it for long because the streaming quality and input lag is just so distracting. And this game with mouse and keyboard controls would be amazing.
Agreed. Let's hope the Kotaku report will true out true then.
I'm wondering what are Sony waiting for to officially announce it. They don't need to wait until the PSM event since it should be entirely focused on the PS5, its specs and lineup.
