Community MetaSteam | June 2023 - halfway through the year

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Hektor

Autobahnraser
Nov 1, 2018
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It’s the already underpaid artists that are getting hit here.

the artists that are getting less money or work because a company is using AI artwork in their next mobile game.
I'm completely against AI art, artists are already very underappreciated, if AI art was accepted and wasn't receiving hate, it would just result in taking away work opportunities from actual artists.
Excuse me if im gonna be extremely inflammatory here, but,

WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK?

Ever since the dawn of the industrial revolution 300 years ago, new technology has put people out of work as the technology made work more efficient than manual labor, resulting in a deprication of the value of said labor, until it reached virtually zero and forced these people to get new jobs (such as operating and maintaining the machines).

This has been the defacto norm for society for hundreds of years now.
Artists, due to the particular unique nature of art, were so far the only form of job mostly exempt of it - but even there exceptions already did exist, cheap CGI displacing all the people involved in creating sets, costumes, animal training, stuntmen and many others.

And yet, i don't see anyone crying for those people losing their jobs.
Nor do i see people crying that McDonalds and its consorts have shrunk their laborface through selforder screens by like what 70% throughout the last 15 years?

Artists will merely be under the same boot, that is machines taking mer jobs, as everyone else.
And while the very existence of such a boot is not a good thing, as machines should set us free rather than make us poor, (which is an issue of capitalism, not technology) i find these crocodile tears artists and their fans currently spill ignorant at best. Welcome to the real world?
 

sprinkles

Junior Member
Dec 8, 2018
625
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So either the discounts are loading up really slowly or more than half the games on my wish list aren't getting discounts lol.
As my wishlist is not loading at all, I think it is safe to say we experience the typical hour or so until the load is lowered enough that all discounts are displayed correctly.
 
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Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
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Anyone that actually cares about art and other types of work that rely on human creativity should, which I guess is something that techbros wouldn't understand.
Honestly, I really think that's a bit snobbish.

How is it completely different when artists lose their jobs compared to when blue collar workers do?

And I'm not going to single out artists here -- I have far more contact with white collar office/"knowledge" workers, and I've seen a very similar attitude there.
Some people who seemingly never really put much thought into labor policies or the inherent issues with our economic system when it was "just" blue collar workers affected by something are suddenly up in arms now that LLMs might be making their jobs redundant.

My hope is that when larger parts of society are affected people might start to collectively think about the real issues, but I'm sure the moneyed interests will find some way to rather spin it as in-group vs. out-group again. "Artists" vs. "Techbros" is surely a great start.
 

ZKenir

Setting the Seas Ablaze
May 10, 2019
3,452
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Anyone that actually cares about art and other types of work that rely on human creativity should, which I guess is something that techbros wouldn't understand.
"Artists" don't have the monopoly on human creativity or creative work, and yet somehow people in other fields that require ingenuity and creativity have been losing their jobs for literal hundreds of years.

I'll go one step further and be particularly cynical and say and these people wouldn't give a shit if THEIR neck wasn't on the automation chopping block this time in fact they wouldn't be thinking about the topic at all, so yeah as far as I'm concerned welcome to how the world works.
 

yuraya

MetaMember
May 4, 2019
2,723
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The BG3 news is incredible. They moved it up by a month lol.

Release dates are a farce anyways. Just get rid of them and let people play the game at whatever stage of development it is in. :sneaky:
 

lashman

Dead & Forgotten
Sep 5, 2018
32,051
90,243
113
Man y'all act like artists were making the big bucks with their creations and not dependent on tip jars and abusive contracts with their customers
to be fair, from what i've seen so far - you all agree with each other :p you're all arguing the same side, haha :) yes, even Hektor :p
 

Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
4,045
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'Things have sucked for everyone else it was about time it was your turn' ain't a great argument lol
That's not at all the argument.

The argument is that the problem is not with technological tools that make humans capable of doing more. The problem is when the economic system results in the effect of those tools being negative for some people, despite them improving human productivity as a whole. And that it's myopic at best and selfish at worst to only recognize this when it applies to tools which affect some professions but not others, as if they are better and more deserving of protection.
 

NarohDethan

There was a fish in the percolator!
Apr 6, 2019
9,122
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That's not at all the argument.

The argument is that the problem is not with technological tools that make humans capable of doing more. The problem is when the economic system results in the effect of those tools being negative for some people, despite them improving human productivity as a whole. And that it's myopic at best and selfish at worst to only recognize this when it applies to tools which affect some professions but not others, as if they are better and more deserving of protection.
Well, I don't consider using AI as 'doing more'. Plus I'm very wary of AI used in stuff like this because it will quite possibly be used to reinforce the status quo, i.e. white supremacy and Western ideals of aesthetics.
 
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Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
4,045
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Well, I don't consider using AI as 'doing more'.
If AI wasn't, to some extent, enabling people to "do more" in less time then I feel like there wouldn't be as much concern about it.

Plus I'm very wary of AI used in stuff like this because it will quite possibly be used to reinforce the status quo, i.e. white supremacy and Western ideals of aesthetics.
A ton of generative AI progress (especially in image generation) is currently coming out of China.
(Which is one of the reasons why the US establishment is scrambling to create increasingly stringent constraints on export)
 
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NarohDethan

There was a fish in the percolator!
Apr 6, 2019
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If AI wasn't, to some extent, enabling people to "do more" in less time then I feel like there wouldn't be as much concern about it.
But is that 'more' good though.

Look, I'm not in the mood of discussing this any further because we clearly don't see eye to eye on this and I don't want to ruin my morning, let's just agree to disagree :steam_cleanseal:
 

ezodagrom

JELLYBEE
Nov 2, 2018
1,871
4,894
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Portugal
www.youtube.com
This is the last thing I'll post about the AI stuff, for those defending AI replacing activities/work that relies on human creativity, let's say, if AI advanced enough to the point of being close enough to immitating human speech and nuances, would you be accepting of it replacing entertainers, streamers, vtubers and such?

If your response is yes, there's just no way I'm ever going to agree with you.
 
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NarohDethan

There was a fish in the percolator!
Apr 6, 2019
9,122
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This is the last thing I'll post about the AI stuff, for those defending AI replacing activities/work that relies on human creativity, let's say, if AI advanced enough to the point of being close enough to immitating human speech and nuances, would you be accepting of it replacing entertainers, streamers, vtubers and such?

If your response is yes, there's just no way I'm ever going to agree with you.
I hereby found our Anti AI corner, population: 2
 

Dinjoralo

None shall remember those who do not fight.
Dec 6, 2018
944
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I personally am not sure if I agree with the intensity of the hate on AI image generation that is common in some parts of the internet. Of course, I also come from a background of already thinking that copyright in general (and copyright by corporations in particular) goes too far, and I fear a further overreach in this particular area.

Obviously the copyright issues will need to be figured out, but (and this is where some people will vehemently disagree or even scream at me) I am not convinced that just because an AI model was trained on a given image (as one in billions) there should be any copyright claim by the author of that image on images generated by the model.

Human artists also look at lots of images and then draw new ones based, among other things, on what they have seen before.

People seem to have this idea that AI image generation works by taking some parts of images wholesale and reproducing them with slight changes, but that's just fundamentally wrong. A very easy way to see this is by noting that the average stable diffusion checkpoint has something like 2 GB of data, while being trained on hundreds of terabytes of images. What I want to illustrate by that is that the impact of any individual image (or even 100s of images) on a given output image is minuscule -- similar to or even less than what could easily happen if an artist had looked at some specific images before working on something new.
It's also annoying how the proliferation of AI art has resulted in some amount of blind hatred for anything with AI. Like the muscle deformation tech in the recent Spiderman games.
Final Fantasy Pixel Remasters:


Didn't this interview happen way back when the console ports were released?
 
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Hektor

Autobahnraser
Nov 1, 2018
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This is the last thing I'll post about the AI stuff, for those defending AI replacing activities/work that relies on human creativity, let's say, if AI advanced enough to the point of being close enough to immitating human speech and nuances, would you be accepting of it replacing entertainers, streamers, vtubers and such?

If your response is yes, there's just no way I'm ever going to agree with you.
150 Years from now, people will call you a Robophobe
 
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Hektor

Autobahnraser
Nov 1, 2018
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You can dual wield Shotguns.
You can do bullet time.
You can do superspeed.
You can dual wield Shotguns!
You can dropkick people.
You can throw people across the map with super strenght.
You can wield two Shotguns at once.
You can dropkick someone so hard against an obstacle that their heads get chopped off.
You can slide around with super speed.
You can kill people utilizing a shotgun in each of your hands.
You can slidekick entire groups of people into the air.
You can kill them with slow-mo mid air afterwards as you are dual wielding shotguns.
You can grab an enemy and throw him into enemies, making them drop like bowling pins.

But most of all.

You can dual wield shotguns.
 

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
4,285
12,155
113


You can dual wield Shotguns.
You can do bullet time.
You can do superspeed.
You can dual wield Shotguns!
You can dropkick people.
You can throw people across the map with super strenght.
You can wield two Shotguns at once.
You can dropkick someone so hard against an obstacle that their heads get chopped off.
You can slide around with super speed.
You can kill people utilizing a shotgun in each of your hands.
You can slidekick entire groups of people into the air.
You can kill them with slow-mo mid air afterwards as you are dual wielding shotguns.
You can grab an enemy and throw him into enemies, making them drop like bowling pins.

But most of all.

You can dual wield shotguns.
what game is this?
 
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