News Epic Games Store

Kyougar

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Industry people were certain that exclusives would work and that customers would follow developers like cattle. Customers aren't playing ball and the industry doesn"t like it one bit.
The current Mixer report shows that you can't buy an audience.
Code:
https://medium.com/@ethan.may/896fc713d752
The hours-streamed on Mixer doubled quarter to quarter, probably Streamers hoping to bank in on the publicity from the Ninja deal.
But the hours-watched fell 10%. Meaning that not many watch those streams.

Just look at this infographic and the disparity between mixer and twitch on the watched to streamed ratio. Mixer has just a third of the hours-streamed from Twitch. Not bad, right?
They only have <5% of the hours watched of Twitch.

 

C-Dub

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We are on the brink of "Fashion Designer" development. Meaning: pubs and devs design their game around the desire to shop it as an exclusive and not with the customer in mind, they don't need the customer.

Epic Exclusives: designed to appeal to the money, like a Fashion Star-Designer who makes stupid dresses that no normal person would wear.



Non-exclusive games:

Holy shit that’s the best analogy I’ve seen of this so far.

How utterly ridiculous of a situation we find ourselves in that developers are designing games to appeal to the handpicked curators of a capricious billionaire.
 

Kyougar

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Holy shit that’s the best analogy I’ve seen of this so far.

How utterly ridiculous of a situation we find ourselves in that developers are designing games to appeal to the handpicked curators of a capricious billionaire.
You know, theoretically, from an artistic standpoint, this wouldn't be so bad and could lead to more acknowledgment for games as art. IF Timmy would create a foundation or something with a billion-dollar budget to further the goal of creating games as art or expanding the scope and technology of development. This would have great synergies with his own engine.
There are some great artists, designers, programmers who try to expand or reimagine what games could do or could be. Invest in those projects and you have instant recognition and (real) admiration.
 

gabbo

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We are on the brink of "Fashion Designer" development. Meaning: pubs and devs design their game around the desire to shop it as an exclusive and not with the customer in mind, they don't need the customer.

Epic Exclusives: designed to appeal to the money, like a Fashion Star-Designer who makes stupid dresses that no normal person would wear.



Non-exclusive games:

I don't think we're deep enough down the EGS rabbit hole for this to be a thing yet. We've heard, anecdotally of possibly 3-4 games on the platform selling well, with no actual numbers to back it up (actual sales data). Everyone else has been silent, and several of the developers can't not have seen the pushback, both legitimate and trolling; from the community just for taking the cash. Low "sales" and angry community will sink a dev fast after Epic stop calling.

In the year since EGS has been live, all the games taken have been in development for at least a year, if not more. There is no way EGS would have influenced the design of any game already in production, only something starting production within the last year. Most of the games have been poached because they got hype from fans elsewhere, if a game newly starting production can't build an audience before hand, Epic can't find them. Also, how would one, at this point figure out 'what game' is the Epic game type? None of the games that have sold well have been the same genre or all that mechanically similar.

If a "boutique" game's only audience is Epic or any imitators that follow in their wake, they won't survive long without those same saviours swooping in again and again. Those ridiculous pieces of clothing can survive by pricing at an equally ridiculous price. There is a FOMO and scarcity for physical items like that. I don't think something like Untitled Goose Game 3: Goosehard with a Vengeance would sell any copies if it's priced at $95 USD to recoup costs because Epic didn't drop cash on the dev again. It's a digital piece of software, there is no scarcity or status to be gained from owning it. In this hypothetical, I'm assuming theyd make UGG2 with Epic's cash, just an FYI

Basically what I'm saying is, if Epic don't buy Ice Pick Lodge or exclusive their next game, this idea falls apart, as they're the most games as art/out there games/weird design you're going to get at a budget level that Epic would notice.
 
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Myradeer

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Yeah, it should be noted that games which were successful on EGS would be those who would have been successful elsewhere anyways. How do you design a game to be Epic exclusive anyway? Only major way to be attractive for moneyhat is greater attention, which is something you can't really aim for other than making (or having an illusion of) good game to generate sufficient hype.
 
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Kyougar

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Of course, the timeline isn't big enough to make this analogy work. The point was, that we are on the brink of such a scenario.
And I am 100% sure that there are some devs right now whose first priority is to make their game pretty for exclusive bait. Making the game fun or appealing for customers comes second or third.

Why would Timmy buy those? Oscar bait. There are hundreds of beautiful games in the past that had good to great reviews but found no audience.
Just buy those, no-one will ever know how bad these performed, just that EGS had critically acclaimed beautiful games in their portfolio while Steam is "littered with trash and trashy looking games" like Rimworld, Factorio, Kerbal, Stardew, Dwarf Fortress, Terraria, and so on.
 
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PC-Patriot

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I've said many times that I have a lot of faith in the PC gaming community. I feel confident that Epic will fail.
I really wish I had your faith, I remember the times when PC gamers said "HA HA fuck off Microsoft we aint paying for online" and "Jesus Microsoft this is the shittiest game client I have ever had the misfortune to use get rid of this GFWL garbage". But now the PC environment isn't the same as it was several years ago. It seems as if everyone went to bed one night and found their patience had been surgically removed.

I have several PC gaming friends that are buying RDR 2 day one from the Rockstar social club shite. One of the main incentives is the two free games you can get if you pre-order ....... you know OLD games ........ that they have ...... on steam .......... and never play anymore. Plus there is the whole "well you might as well get it from the social club store since you will have to use the store even if you buy it from steam". This is of course after they have spent plenty of hours bitching and moaning about buying GTA 5 from the social club store and it not updating. I swear sometimes I just sit here thinking "am I the crazy one ?"

Now you may say that "well at least they are getting it from rockstar and not epic" but this will hurt steam too. If a decent number buy direct from Rockstar I can easily see Rockstar going the same route as Ubisoft and leaving steam altogether. I honestly don't think that the end result of all this is gonna be a happy ending for Steam, the PC or us as customers and users but hey at least people got to play a game a month artificially early ........ yeahhhhhhhhhhhh.
 

MJunioR

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I'm wondering how long the new Batman will be an EGS exclusive, if at all (assuming that Warner isn't cooking their own launcher). Unless WB really likes Epic there's no way that it will be a 1 year considering the signs we are seeing now.
 

gabbo

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Of course, the timeline isn't big enough to make this analogy work. The point was, that we are on the brink of such a scenario.
And I am 100% sure that there are some devs right now whose first priority is to make their game pretty for exclusive bait. Making the game fun or appealing for customers comes second or third.

Why would Timmy buy those? Oscar bait. There are hundreds of beautiful games in the past that had good to great reviews but found no audience.
Just buy those, no-one will ever know how bad these performed, just that EGS had critically acclaimed beautiful games in their portfolio while Steam is "littered with trash and trashy looking games" like Rimworld, Factorio, Kerbal, Stardew, Dwarf Fortress, Terraria, and so on.
How would a dev design a game around the idea of "exclusive bait" if there is no set standard for what that means AND it requires an existing fanbase to be picked up on? It's not like Oscar bait which is colloquial, but actually is a loose set of conventions all those films tend to share. RDR2 is unlike Metro is unlike Satisfactory is unlike Ashen is unlike Ooblets both graphically and from a gameplay perspective, unless you're saying a game just needs pretty graphics to have Tim Sweeney come calling, in which case I respectfully disagree. The games that get the deals are either existing franchises with built in fanbases wanting the newest entry or are new IP that look interesting/fun and find a following because of that.

I know we joke that indie devs aren't always good with the business side of things, but if 'make a good game' is not the top priority, you're sunk before you finish your first line of code.
 

lashman

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I'm wondering how long the new Batman will be an EGS exclusive, if at all (assuming that Warner isn't cooking their own launcher). Unless WB really likes Epic there's no way that it will be a 1 year considering the signs we are seeing now.
pretty sure it's gonna be 1 year ... not because Tim has this much money, but because WB don't really give a fuck and probably won't ask for much (especially after all that stuff that happened with Arkham Knight on steam)
 

Kyougar

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How would a dev design a game around the idea of "exclusive bait" if there is no set standard for what that means AND it requires an existing fanbase to be picked up on? It's not like Oscar bait which is colloquial, but actually is a loose set of conventions all those films tend to share. RDR2 is unlike Metro is unlike Satisfactory is unlike Ashen is unlike Ooblets both graphically and from a gameplay perspective, unless you're saying a game just needs pretty graphics to have Tim Sweeney come calling, in which case I respectfully disagree. The games that get the deals are either existing franchises with built in fanbases wanting the newest entry or are new IP that look interesting/fun and find a following because of that.

I know we joke that indie devs aren't always good with the business side of things, but if 'make a good game' is not the top priority, you're sunk before you finish your first line of code.
You are still arguing from the current released list of exclusives. I am talking about the future and what some devs/pubs will try to do if Epic continues to buy exclusives.
It is much MUCH easier to make your game beautiful and review well than to find an audience. Just ask Bethesda Publishing or other high profile failures. Making your game fun and enticing to the customer is the hardest part unless you have already an audience. If you don't need to concentrate on making your game appealing to customers, you can concentrate on presentation over substance. We know how easy it is to get high review scores.
 
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MJunioR

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pretty sure it's gonna be 1 year ... not because Tim has this much money, but because WB don't really give a fuck and probably won't ask for much (especially after all that stuff that happened with Arkham Knight on steam)
Dunno lashy, it's a WB Montreal game, and isn't Batman super popular right now? They could easily ask for a number close to what Gearbox did for Borderlands 3.
 

FunktionJCB

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Another day, and I'm still waiting for my Shenmue 3 refund.
16 days since I applied for a refund (on the day refund requests opened), 10 days since the first refunds were sent, and I'm still waiting.

I thought I couldn't possibly get more pissed at these fuckers than I already was. Guess I was wrong. :giggle:
 

C-Dub

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Another day, and I'm still waiting for my Shenmue 3 refund.
16 days since I applied for a refund (on the day refund requests opened), 10 days since the first refunds were sent, and I'm still waiting.

I thought I couldn't possibly get more pissed at these fuckers than I already was. Guess I was wrong. :giggle:
It will come. Dunno why they say 60 days, but they are clearly just taking their time with these refunds.
 
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lashman

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Dunno lashy, it's a WB Montreal game, and isn't Batman super popular right now? They could easily ask for a number close to what Gearbox did for Borderlands 3.
exactly ... it's a WB Montreal game ... WB to this day pretends Oranges never happened :p
 
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Alexandros

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I really wish I had your faith, I remember the times when PC gamers said "HA HA fuck off Microsoft we aint paying for online" and "Jesus Microsoft this is the shittiest game client I have ever had the misfortune to use get rid of this GFWL garbage". But now the PC environment isn't the same as it was several years ago. It seems as if everyone went to bed one night and found their patience had been surgically removed.

I have several PC gaming friends that are buying RDR 2 day one from the Rockstar social club shite. One of the main incentives is the two free games you can get if you pre-order ....... you know OLD games ........ that they have ...... on steam .......... and never play anymore. Plus there is the whole "well you might as well get it from the social club store since you will have to use the store even if you buy it from steam". This is of course after they have spent plenty of hours bitching and moaning about buying GTA 5 from the social club store and it not updating. I swear sometimes I just sit here thinking "am I the crazy one ?"

Now you may say that "well at least they are getting it from rockstar and not epic" but this will hurt steam too. If a decent number buy direct from Rockstar I can easily see Rockstar going the same route as Ubisoft and leaving steam altogether. I honestly don't think that the end result of all this is gonna be a happy ending for Steam, the PC or us as customers and users but hey at least people got to play a game a month artificially early ........ yeahhhhhhhhhhhh.
That is to be expected because the demographics of PC gaming have changed over the years. The audience is much bigger now and it's logical that different people will have different tolerance levels towards certain events. For example, I haven't bought an EA game since they left Steam but others are fine with buying games from publisher stores. As long as core PC gamers present a united front against Epic, which they have, Epic will fail. I'm sure of that and I am sure that the worst is already behind us.
 

AHA-Lambda

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Another day, and I'm still waiting for my Shenmue 3 refund.
16 days since I applied for a refund (on the day refund requests opened), 10 days since the first refunds were sent, and I'm still waiting.

I thought I couldn't possibly get more pissed at these fuckers than I already was. Guess I was wrong. :giggle:
Ditto, it's really pissing me off now tbh
 

Chudah

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May 24, 2019
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Another day, and I'm still waiting for my Shenmue 3 refund.
16 days since I applied for a refund (on the day refund requests opened), 10 days since the first refunds were sent, and I'm still waiting.

I thought I couldn't possibly get more pissed at these fuckers than I already was. Guess I was wrong. :giggle:
I wonder if they're going through refunds by date pledged. I know I pledged towards the tail end of the campaign (may have been the last day of it, though it was so long ago I can't remember). Not to give them any leeway here, but just trying to make sense of why I haven't received mine yet either.
 
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FunktionJCB

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I wonder if they're going through refunds by date pledged. I know I pledged towards the tail end of the campaign (may have been the last day of it, though it was so long ago I can't remember). Not to give them any leeway here, but just trying to make sense of why I haven't received mine yet either.
That's definitely not it, since I backed on the very first day of the campaign.
 

lashman

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from the kickstarter update post:

NO EGS EXCLUSIVE

Finally, we have noticed that since our last Kickstarter, things have changed quite a bit. Due to broken promises from indie devs all the way to AAA publishers, it is probably no exaggeration to say that trust in developers is at an all-time low, especially in regards to Epic Games Store exclusives of titles that were originally (co)funded on Kickstarter.

Ironically, one of the main reasons why we are doing another Kickstarter is to double-down on our promise that EVERSPACE 2 will launch on Steam first, no matter what. Just in case there are still any doubts, you might want to read an official interview on Gamesindustry.biz why Steam is and will be our most important digital games storefront.

With this hopefully being out of the way, please head over to our new campaign and help us once again to make an even bigger and better space shooter and tell your friends all about it. We couldn’t be more excited about EVERSPACE 2 going open-world – let’s do this together!

See you in EVERSPACE 2 on Steam!

Michael and your dedicated ROCKFISH Games Team
 

Kuroyume

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I wonder how effective giving away free games has been. Have to think it has been effective if they still do it and have increased the number of games given out recently. But hell, I have 40 games on there and have spent 0 cents. And still have no intention to spend money on it. Other digital storefronts/services which I have been a member of or used for years, and which have given out free games, have not put out that volume of free stuff in the time that I have been a member.
 

MJunioR

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I wonder how effective giving away free games has been. Have to think it has been effective if they still do it and have increased the number of games given out recently. But hell, I have 40 games on there and have spent 0 cents. And still have no intention to spend money on it. Other digital storefronts/services which I have been a member of or used for years, and which have given out free games, have not put out that volume of free stuff in the time that I have been a member.
People who made their account for the free games and then turned on users actively buying games there? Not millions, I believe. But even then the free games probably helped Epic A LOT convincing pubs that they have a public. It wouldn't be a surprise to discover that Sergey is using the number of people who got multiple games through giveaways as 'returning EGS users', 'active EGS clients' or anything like it.

Hell, Batman being free made the news everywhere and I doubt that Epic won't name 'number of people who got Batman free on EGS' to something like 'number of people who acquired multiple products to their EGS library during week x of 2019'
 

lashman

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People who made their account for the free games and then turned on users actively buying games there? Not millions, I believe. But even then the free games probably helped Epic A LOT convincing pubs that they have a public. It wouldn't be a surprise to discover that Sergey is using the number of people who got multiple games through giveaways as 'returning EGS users', 'active EGS clients' or anything like it.

Hell, Batman being free made the news everywhere and I doubt that Epic won't name 'number of people who got Batman free on EGS' to something like 'number of people who acquired multiple products to their EGS library during week x of 2019'
it's all about massaging the numbers
 

C-Dub

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it's all about massaging the numbers
Of course it is, but we're approaching crunch time now where exclusivity ends on some of the earliest games and developers can probably be more frank about their relationship with Epic and how it went.

I'm guessing that a number of developers who have already pre-emptively put up store pages for their EGS exclusives, despite them not launching on Steam until December, are happy for people to wait at this point since they are probably a million miles off meeting their sales advance and haven't seen a penny from Epic since the first moneyhat.

I expect some interesting postmortems at GDC.
 

MJunioR

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doubt it'll happen .... regardless of what Tim said - i'd be EXTREMELY surprised if any of that data isn't NDA'd to hell and back
And these pubs / devs don't want to burn any bridge now, especially the ones like the devs of MechWarrior 5 / Ooblets / Phoenix Point, since they already burnt one with a group of consumers. These guys will be knocking Epic's door right after these games release asking for another exclusivity deal.

For the games leaving EGS exclusivity this December, the most I expect their devs to say is something in the lines of 'Steam sales were good, complementing the already good revenue we had in the previous year'. No comparisons or anything, there's no need for these to be public, after all.
 

lashman

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And these pubs / devs don't want to burn any bridge now, especially the ones like the devs of MechWarrior 5 / Ooblets / Phoenix Point, since they already burnt one with a group of consumers. These guys will be knocking Epic's door right after these games release asking for another exclusivity deal.
also this, yes

For the games leaving EGS exclusivity this December, the most I expect their devs to say is something in the lines of 'Steam sales were good, complementing the already good revenue we had in the previous year'. No comparisons or anything, there's no need for these to be public, after all.
yeah, exactly ... that's the most i expect from any of them

but most will probably never mention or compare the sales
 
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Kyougar

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Just be prepared for the first articles about the struggling dev who believes Valve is shadowbanning them and thats why their sales on Steam are bad,
Or how abysmal their profit from Steam is and how much money they made on EGS instead (conveniently leaving out, that the money from Steam is the first money they saw for a year.)
Or how they have to close and why that is Steams fault and why they were right to take the exclusivity money in the first place.
 

Knurek

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yeah, exactly ... that's the most i expect from any of them

but most will probably never mention or compare the sales
Unless the exclusivity agreement requires them to shit on Steam sales after the period ends.
We'll see if we get 'sales on Steam were disappointing when compared to EGS' articles/tweets...
 
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Kyougar

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pretty sure that's not how NDAs work, lol :p
You could have fooled me with the exclusive announcement who nearly all had the same talking points and "attacks on Steam".

Full-on conspiracy mode: You can't write that in an NDA, but you can make a deal dependent on how you message your relationship with Epic and then you NDA talking about that deal.
 
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lashman

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You could have fooled me with the exclusive announcement who nearly all had the same talking points and "attacks on Steam".
i would attribute that more to the work Sergey has been doing for YEARS now ... talking about indiepocalypse and how bad volvo really are at pretty much every indie meetup ... you don't have to look far to find all the devs who genuinely believe all of that
 

C-Dub

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I don’t think the shit flung at Steam in regards to “indiepocalypse” is fair, because Valve can only convince people to buy so many indie games.

But there is definitely an issue in regards to games not selling on all platforms. Epic is fashioning itself as the solution, but we all know they’ll only feed the rot rather than remove it.

Ironically, a big part of the real issue is games like Fortnite that are intentionally designed to suck up people’s time and money. They stop being fun long before people stop playing them, and a lot of that boils down to gambling-esque mechanics, the social factor and preying on people’s completionist tendencies in a game that never ends.

There are of course other issues: a race to the bottom in price is one, bundles is another. But primarily the attractiveness of those things is down to an abundance of games and a squeeze on the consumer’s spend from all angles.

It’s like the US 80s crash again, only instead of an abundance of crap expensive games, we have an abundance of inexpensive good ones.
 

Samson

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I don’t think the shit flung at Steam in regards to “indiepocalypse” is fair, because Valve can only convince people to buy so many indie games.
It's unfair because people have been indoctrinated to this idea that marketing (which apparently is supposed to be done by your storefront) exists to sell your product to as many people as possible.

When really, the advent of internet-style storefronts meant we should be using tech to find the people who actually want to buy our products. Instead of spewing ads to every Tom, Dick and Harry, you just show the product directly to the people who have demonstrated interest from their purchase history.

And since Valve does the latter and not the former, of course they blame them for their struggles.
 

Derrick01

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I wonder how effective giving away free games has been. Have to think it has been effective if they still do it and have increased the number of games given out recently. But hell, I have 40 games on there and have spent 0 cents. And still have no intention to spend money on it. Other digital storefronts/services which I have been a member of or used for years, and which have given out free games, have not put out that volume of free stuff in the time that I have been a member.
I've already seen a few people on era say they'll buy RDR 2 on epic because their library is now pretty large from the free games.

Granted since this is from era they're likely lying just to rile people up but no doubt that is Epic's goal with the free games. They want people to be lured in then feel trapped from the "oh god I have too many games on here to abandon it" feeling.
 

Alexandros

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I've already seen a few people on era say they'll buy RDR 2 on epic because their library is now pretty large from the free games.

Granted since this is from era they're likely lying just to rile people up but no doubt that is Epic's goal with the free games. They want people to be lured in then feel trapped from the "oh god I have too many games on here to abandon it" feeling.
Judging from the fact that the majority of posts supporting Epic come from people who don't play on PC, I'd say that they are most definitely lying. Trolling, to be more accurate.
 

EdwardTivrusky

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"It's better for the devs" then claims all the FREE games and trolls about actually buying a game on EGS, yeah that sounds about right. Especially if you add the ones who scream about devs getting more money then VPN like maniacs to get Regional Pricing from other regions. Or sign up to every publisher subscription service on a month-by-month basis so they don't even have to buy the games. I don't have a problem with people who do that but at least be honest about it.

So yeah, Free games may be a draw but i doubt any of the Holier-Than-Thou crowd have actually bought very much on EGS at all and it's going to be interesting to see how Subscriptions impact game sales and developer studios in the future too.
 

Gengis Khan

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Judging from the fact that the majority of posts supporting Epic come from people who don't play on PC, I'd say that they are most definitely lying. Trolling, to be more accurate.
Yup. I'm under the same impression. Most of them couldn't give a shit about buying the game on PC, regardless of the store.
They just love to rock the boat.

They don't even like Epic nor the service it offers (unsurprisingly, I must add). They just enjoy witnessing it as a disruptive force in the PC market.
They want to watch the world burn, so to say.
 

Rosenkrantz

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Well, almost a year later I'm starting to feel that EGS is slowly, but surely, starting to enter the territory of irrelevance. Steam is in a good shape, subscription services are stealing their thunder and people more or less moved on from being hurt by publishers moves and accepted the reality that they'll have to wait for a game to appear on a platform of their choice. Add to that, still barebones state of the client, questionable decisions regarding sales and no visible strategy with the exception of exclusives and freebies which are not a guarantee of long-term customers. I still can't see what they can achieve on the market, if the goal is to kill Valve, then they're failing to achieve it.