This problem is effectively unsolvable. Just look at the eShop.
Pretty sure Ubisoft isnt starving, nor 4A games, Annapurna, Supergiant, etc. The only smallish studio they recruited are the Dangerous Driving guys, and they delivered a subpar product.
News Epic Games Store
- Thread starter Blizniak
- Start date
I'm sorry to interject but I have to point out the usual fallacy in saying Epic's "competition" will push Steam to improve on any kind of issue. It won't, not with moneyhats. The only reaction moneyhats invite and the only way they can be countered is by offering larger, more impactful moneyhats of your own.
Epic's tactics do not lead to any dev or customer-facing improvements.
The talk about Steam being a monopoly has been debunked by Sampson, if you are interested I invite you to read it.
Finally, Epic has not been moneyhatting indie games that were in dire need of exposure and funding. They were almost all proven quantities and already successful. Epic is buying games that are hyped up in order to build their userbase and most of the deals are actually with publishers, not studios.
... Add it to the pile of issues with EGS then. I still can't believe that they screwed up this badly.
It's fine, I'm not taking this that seriously and find the exchanges most intriguing. Like I mentioned before but I've been on PC from era before Steam, so it's not exactly the same rose-tinted glasses for me.
Yes, I believe they paid to keep games exclusives to their launcher which is also on PC, but people make it sound like we will never get those games on PC now. Not saying this shouldn't be criticized but going back to my original point of making both of the "sides" look funny this is one of those things when people act like the game is not coming at all.
I'll have to admit while the list looks great there's only 1 game I have played there (Divinity: Original Sin 2) so would assume this completely matter of taste as you mention, seems like Indies more often than not are available outside Steam too. To my experience most of my games are locked to Steam, but if we're just talking numbers then you're definitely right.
Cool, I know it sucks when people jump down your throat in droves and we're not on reddit here
.I see where you are coming from. I guess it depends how concerned you are by this particular issue which allows you to have more or less detachment from it. I still wouldn't ridicule people for caring, especially when they are right.
There's also the fact that if you truly want to be effective about boycotting those studios taking the moneyhats, then you can't buy the game when it comes out later on Steam. Doing it would defeat your original purpose. You have to follow through, or else it sends the message that moneyhatting is consequence-free.
This is what leads a good amount of people to act as if the game isn't coming out on PC because, short of pirating it, it won't for them if they want to be effective in their actions.
Last edited:
Wasn't my intention to ridicule but as heated people get, at least in my eyes it throws shade on the actual issues rather than bringing up a good point. Like, I've seen some posts online about this with a good point but the way they were written were downright childish "console warrior"-tier posts I can't help but to shrug.Cool, I know it sucks when people jump down your throat in droves and we're not on reddit here
I see where you are coming from. I guess it depends how concerned you are by this particular issue which allows you to have more or less detachment from it. I still wouldn't ridicule people for caring, especially when they are right.
There's also the fact that if you truly want to be effective about boycotting those studios taking the moneyhats, then you can't buy the game when it comes out later on Steam. Doing it would defeat your original purpose. You have to follow through else, or else it sends the message that moneyhatting is consequence-free.
This is what leads a good amount of people to act as if the game isn't coming out on PC because, short of pirating it, it won't for them if they want to be effective in their actions.
I agree that people who feel strong about this and go on boycott will definitely have hard time, but snide remarks like "I'll be getting the free version" and promoting piracy is also one of the things that are not making your points any stronger.
Agreed on all points, it's the kind of things that make our points weaker and distract from them.
On the other hand, I wish this level of critical eye was applied to the arguments and tone of the defense I often see of the EGS.
Also, stop reminding me of JW3. I really need to see it for the cinematography alone.
You really do need to see it!Agreed on all points, it's the kind of things that make our points weaker and distract from them.
On the other hand, I wish this level of critical eye was applied to the arguments and tone of the defense I often see of the EGS.
Also, stop reminding me of JW3. I really need to see it for the cinematography alone.
Antichamber has Steam key + DRM free download on the Humble Store
Ichi has a DRM free download on the Humble Store.
Always this steam needs more curation thing.
Remember the time when physical copies were the only way to sell games? Before the power of the Internet became a wide spread thing? I doubt we would have had beautiful, independent but niche games like FTL, Undertale, Papers, Please and many more without a big, established and most importantly open internet distribution platform like Steam in the first place.
I'm not a developer and thankfully not associated with this industry, but as far as I understand it is very easy to publish a game on steam today and that's a good thing.
This, so hated, open and widely used platform allowed a new age of golden indy development and brought us many great titles.
I think Valves openes is one of the best things that ever happened to the PC community. Sure, many bad titles get released too and some sort of curation is needed, because not everything is legal in the first place. But the real problem isn't the flood of bad games, it's the tsunami of good games. Even in the indy space, people have a limited amount of money and time. Your Jump&Run might be good today and might have been great 10 years ago, but maybe it's not as good as Hollow Knight, Celeste, Shovel Knight and Cup Head? Maybe it isn't successful because even better options exist?
I said it once and I'll repeat it till the end of time: The biggest difference between PCs and Consoles isn't "power". Pc is an open platform, consoles are walled of. Steam doesn't stand in the way of this openes, that many of us love so much. This is why it gets so much support by the community.
EGS is the opposite, they want to curate everything, have a say what gets published and not, they want to monopolies the market. And people say that's a good thing, because there are asset flips on steam and because publishers get more money out of the EGS.
No, I rather take my open platform that allows ideas and niche games to exist much more easy.
Remember the time when physical copies were the only way to sell games? Before the power of the Internet became a wide spread thing? I doubt we would have had beautiful, independent but niche games like FTL, Undertale, Papers, Please and many more without a big, established and most importantly open internet distribution platform like Steam in the first place.
I'm not a developer and thankfully not associated with this industry, but as far as I understand it is very easy to publish a game on steam today and that's a good thing.
This, so hated, open and widely used platform allowed a new age of golden indy development and brought us many great titles.
I think Valves openes is one of the best things that ever happened to the PC community. Sure, many bad titles get released too and some sort of curation is needed, because not everything is legal in the first place. But the real problem isn't the flood of bad games, it's the tsunami of good games. Even in the indy space, people have a limited amount of money and time. Your Jump&Run might be good today and might have been great 10 years ago, but maybe it's not as good as Hollow Knight, Celeste, Shovel Knight and Cup Head? Maybe it isn't successful because even better options exist?
I said it once and I'll repeat it till the end of time: The biggest difference between PCs and Consoles isn't "power". Pc is an open platform, consoles are walled of. Steam doesn't stand in the way of this openes, that many of us love so much. This is why it gets so much support by the community.
EGS is the opposite, they want to curate everything, have a say what gets published and not, they want to monopolies the market. And people say that's a good thing, because there are asset flips on steam and because publishers get more money out of the EGS.
No, I rather take my open platform that allows ideas and niche games to exist much more easy.
I think what valve is doing with trying to figure out what to show to people so everyone gets their "personal" store is the right way to go. Even if they are seen as failing by so many doesn't take away from the fact that they are so far ahead of everyone else. Only competition I can genuinely see in this front is from Google.
Serves them right. The writing was on the wall since the begining. Dont listen to moron console warriors on ERA telling you they did well. When you have to bleed money on a sale and resort to cryptic numbers, you didn't do well. Even WWZ, despite moving a few units, is the least selling SKU on a platform where coop shooters are usually where PC thrives the most sales wise.
Actions have consequences.
They would have had a day-one purchase from me, but that became a hard pass after the Epic Games Store announcement. I even had a few hours to buy it on Steam, but I didn't want to support them after that. If I'm still interested in a couple of years, I may pick it up on a heavy sale.
They would have had a day-one purchase from me, but that became a hard pass after the Epic Games Store announcement. I even had a few hours to buy it on Steam, but I didn't want to support them after that. If I'm still interested in a couple of years, I may pick it up on a heavy sale.
Last edited:
B-but it sold 2.5x what Last Light did at launch! Epic is gloating about it so it must be a good thing!
A surprise to no one. It was obvious after all their managed to get to brag about was a obscure "2.5 x Last Light" with no actual numbers revealed.
Well deserved. I hope Deep Silver and THQ Nordic think twice before making exclusivity deals with Epic for their future games.
I had it pre-ordered. I very rarely pre-order games but this was one i was really looking forward to. I ended up refunding it (first game ever refunded on Steam) when the exclusive announcement happened. I know I would have got a Steam version but all the Exclusivity shit just doesn't sit well with me and so Im not supporting any game that takes that deal. Might get it in a few years for cheap.
Deleted member 113
Guest
Well, considering on that shareholders conference they announced they have multiple deals of various kinds with platform holders (to cover development costs, publicity costs, ...), and even streaming platforms, I would say they are actually going to aggressively pursue deals that may see exclusive titles, or content, not only to the EGS, but also Sony and Microsoft consoles, and that Google streaming platform.
I know by now I'm a pain in the ass for repeating the same thing over and over again, but don't like this? Don't support these companies.
Why keep following them, hoping/expecting they drop you a crumb or two, and give you the honour of releasing a game on a platform you want?
Is there really any shortage of worthwhile games to play, so much that there's a need to keep following companies that took these deals, following their news, hoping they fail, or change their practices?
I think we are giving them too much publicity and importance.
By now, I really couldn't care less if a company decides to make a game exclusive to the EGS. Well, outside of crap like Phoenix Point, where I spent money under a certain pretence, and then I'm lied to, and expected to be thankful about that. In those cases, I make an exception, and will kindly tell them to fuck off, and get my money back.
If the game launches on a platform/launcher I use, it goes to my wishlist. If the game is announced as an exclusive to the EGS, I quickly forget about it, and couldn't care less if they launch on Steam in a year or so. For me, after I see it won't be available on a platform I want to use, it's gone from my mind.
There are so many developers worthy of your time and money, who struggle to get any attention and sales, why waste your time and money with companies that do the opposite?
I'm starting to think that these EGS deals are really a godsend for these companies: they get Epic's money, they get a lot of free publicity and coverage, and when they decide to release outside of the EGS, they apparently can expect to make even more money, since many are "lining up", with their money on their hands, waiting to buy them.
I really don't get this. Are so many people thankful for the opportunity to purchase these games a year later?
Is it so hard to tell these companies to fuck off, and spend your money elsewhere?
So, there's a chance that Metro didn't meet the expectations even with the moneyhat? Welp, play stupid games and all that.
As always you are of course right about we having other options to put our money in, but it can be a little bit... frustrating when you see a media product that looks interesting but you have to opt out of consuming it. It's the part of your brain that gets "hyped" (that is heavily target by the marketing campaigns) having to be told to stand down by the part that is "reasonable"I really don't get this. Are so many people thankful for the opportunity to purchase these games a year later?
Is it so hard to tell these companies to fuck off, and spend your money elsewhere?
Which is why I actually find it interesting to see how these games perform overall. Most of the "good" numbers we had are obfuscated and even then restricted to launch periods, and one curiosity I have is how is a store with such a limited catalog and no user engagement tools does in keeping up with the "long tail" PC games usually have.
Eeeesh, that article has a slightly different tone that the previous tweets regarding the PC performance. Doesn't mention consoles at all and uses the "the former sold 2.5 times what Metro Last Light did in its PC launch window, while the latter was Coffee Stain's biggest PC launch to date. ". Doesn't sound biased at all....
Well, I'm sure this EGS sale will greatly help them bury the numbers even more.
Deleted member 113
Guest
On the opposite side of the spectrum, Overload, the awesome spiritual successor to the Descent series, done by the original developers, a game of quality, with a demo available, and even modding tools, sold like crap, and the team is no more.
No matter what the team did, they didn't get any significant coverage, and people didn't even bother to try out the demo.
They really should have released the game on the EGS, at least their game would be talked about.
See what I mean?
People complain about DLCs and microtransactions? They end up buying games that have both.
People complain about the lack of demos? They ignore games that do make demos available, and buy games that don't (some of them even have demos on consoles, but don't release them on the PC).
People complain about games releasing exclusively on the EGS? They end up talking a lot about these games, while ignoring games like Overload, who released on several platforms, and was exclusive to none.
As a side note, Overload is currently on sale on Chrono.gg.
Nexus - Support-a-Creator programs for live service games
As the Support-a-Creator platform, Nexus makes it possible for video game publishers to build in-game creator programs. Enable creator codes in your game and improve conversion, player spending, and retention.
www.chrono.gg
Sorry but as awesome as Overload is personally i'm not a fan of the Descent series so i wasn't interested. I was well aware of it's existence and even watched a speedrun at GDQ which just cemented that the series wasn't for me.
Coverage and getting your game in front of as many customers as possible is great but you can't guarantee that people will like your game or want it. I suspect anyone who wanted a modern Descent game bought it but the market the devs hoped for just wasn't there.
Coverage and getting your game in front of as many customers as possible is great but you can't guarantee that people will like your game or want it. I suspect anyone who wanted a modern Descent game bought it but the market the devs hoped for just wasn't there.
On the opposite side of the spectrum, Overload, the awesome spiritual successor to the Descent series, done by the original developers, a game of quality, with a demo available, and even modding tools, sold like crap, and the team is no more.
No matter what the team did, they didn't get any significant coverage, and people didn't even bother to try out the demo.
They really should have released the game on the EGS, at least their game would be talked about.
See what I mean?
People complain about DLCs and microtransactions? They end up buying games that have both.
People complain about the lack of demos? They ignore games that do make demos available, and buy games that don't (some of them even have demos on consoles, but don't release them on the PC).
People complain about games releasing exclusively on the EGS? They end up talking a lot about these games, while ignoring games like Overload, who released on several platforms, and was exclusive to none.
I rather think Satisfactory was very successful because the media and influencers are promoting it as Factorio in 3D. Without Factorio's success, I'm pretty sure Satisfactory wouldn't have done so well. The same goes for WWZ, that other successful EGS game which has been promoted as "the spiritual successor or Left 4 Dead".
I do agree that people should vote with their wallets more often. I have been advocating to do this on many occasions, and I have been dogpiled for this on many occasions as well.
Many people just don't care, although these tweets about Metro Exodus give me hope that a significant amount of people DO care.
It's sad that GI.biz repeated Epic's PR nonsense about selling 2.5x more than LL during the launch window, if it's actually true that THQ said the PC version sold only slightly above expectation in the beginning of the year (which were probably the pre-orders on Steam).
We knew it bombed when Epic came out at GDC with that hilarious "sold 2.5x the previous game which may have only been one edition and if looking at the first week of sales" line. They've shown with WWZ they have no problems giving actual numbers when it's good.
It hurts, After The Quiet Man I'd buy anything HH developed for a dollar.
Sorry, can't see youtube videos at work, could you please give the name of this game ?
Weird, the fact I've been PC gaming for basically forever is literally the reason I appreciate everything that Valve has done to create an actual bona fide platform specifically for PC gaming. And that's just at a consumer facing level. The money they've poured (and continue to pour) into developer and publisher benefits have also had huge (albeit mostly invisible at a glance) benefits for everyone in the space.
Thanks
All I heard and read about The Quiet Man was how bad it was, so I'm not sure how to understand your message...
I enjoy trash games, sometimes more than competent blandfests, and I usually buy them when they're very cheap (hence the Robocop reference).
Winter/Summer 2020 it is then. You'd think HumanHead would stay away from shitty publishing deals, unless they really were in dire need. If that's the case, I'm less disappointed.
They didn't make anything remotely popular since Prey, it's safe to assume they aren't in the best condition right now, so I can see why they made a deal.
Great, so if you count those two games, plus the four that have free web versions, there’s 8 or fewer “Steam exclusives” in my current installed library of 60 games.
“Many Steam exclusives” my butt!
Ubisoft is fine of course, I wouldn't be so sure about the others, specially Supergiant. Starving is an hyperbole of course but it's not so easy to tell if a studio is going well, just look at Telltale, would you say they would close one month before it happened?
Anyway, this is going off-topic. I don't know how these deals are made, don't know if the developers are getting anything or if it's all to the publishers (when there is one). All I want to say is that the "greedy devs" argument is a big fallacy, keeping a studio is hard and very risky.
Publishers can be pretty greedy though.
Last edited:
Phoenix Point all over again, hahaha. Edit: well, his statements aren't bad. The history bit doesn't mean shit and the roadmap citation was cringe. It sucks they don't honor Steam keys for those who preordered them though, I dunno why they think a second copy works as compensation. But as usual Epic is willing to fork for the refunds so oh well, another studio who prefers Epic's money over gamers' money, see how far that takes them then. I can't say this game looked exciting to me anyway (for now, who knows, I'm just going by the old and the new trailer).
Last edited:
I do wonder if -- judging by Wingefors's hesitance to answer PC questions -- we're going to see a situation where pubs end up getting a slight bump in revenue up front compared to Steam, but lose the tail on sales over time because the store isn't really built to be browsed, sorted, and explored like Steam's. Just navigating the store now is inconvenient with the lack of clear categories and ordering; I can only imagine how hard it will be to find games once they have more than a couple hundred games on there.
Well, I mean, they did answer the big one up front, but after that, it doesn't really help their case.
As much as they've poo-pooed them, I can't imagine the lack of actual social features are helping. Some amount of users on Steam are influenced by reviews, community forums, friend purchases, friend recommendations, etc.
How does Epic keep bringing people in for years to come?
Well, there are some "good" (as in direct) answers there, but man do they try to make Epic sound so wonderful
. And showing the already delayed roadmap is hilarious.Judging by the trailer (that game does not look ready to release in "Summer 2019") I'm guessing HumanHead really needed the money.
As long as Fortnite is popular, by throwing money at it like this loss leading sale. I don't think it's a coincidence they doing one now for a whole month just before E3 to try to get some of the "long tail" numbers up. The indie numbers in particular must be terrible if even Metro faded this fast.
On of the Steam biggest achievements is creating a true "ecosystem" where people are regularly engaged and constantly being exposed to games via the store page, friends lists and activity feeds, events, and so on. But all of that is on the consumer end that is something that Epic forgot about on their push to enter the market. Details details.
There has to come a point where throwing money at diminishing to non-existent returns is a bad idea. I don't know when that point would be, but it has to exist at some point.
They also still have not, hilariously, done absolutely anything at all to leverage their Fortnite player base into buying things on the store.
Yup, it's not visible anymore. I wonder why is that...