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[Deleted member 113]

My wish at this point is that EGS grinds Epic into the ground. But I know they will drop it like a lead balloon if it’s not successful and the Fortnite cash begins to dwindle.

I’d just love to watch the company burn at this point, but I’d take watching a few of the companies who took their money hat then treated potential customers like shit have to come back to their old fans, cap in hand, begging for money. Hopefully Ys Net is one of them.

I seem to recall a certain company called Epic saying all PC gamers where a bunch of pirates, that playing games on the couch was better, and when things went sour with Microsoft, they came back with a whole different speech.
And it served them right, considering Fortnight is what it is (in terms of making money).

I'm sure we will see some companies with similar back-peddling, once Epic stops their financial support.

 

[m_dorian]

I understand the necessity of the exclusive 1st party games on a store/console and i can even encourage it for the sake of competition although i really do not like games/products being exclusive.
What EGS does is limiting the purchase options and force the customers to their environment or wait. This is not something that can be excused by me no matter how many free games they will offer me or how many "fire sales" they make to "bribe" me.

I like games (obviously!) but I am not dependent of any game whatsoever to lure me to an environment i consider sub par and is run by people that never stop being a-holes during their communications with customers.
They scare me enough to not want to be associated with them.

It is not just another launcher. It is a launcher run by people that made me not like them with a plan of limiting my options. They do not add, they subtract.

And i am not a Steam defender, i always prefer no DRM when the choice is presented to me even if that means i have to spent a few € more.

I 've said it before, EGS needs to stop being a-holes and stop limiting the consumers options.

Considering how Shenmue III fackery happened, a game that i am not interested in, i only can say screw Deep Silver and that Wingerforz cunt.

 

[lashman]

I 've said it before, EGS needs to stop being a-holes and stop limiting the consumers options.

even if they stopped tomorrow - i don't care ...

they already showed what they're capable of ... there is no possible scenario where i actually buy anything off their shit store ... even if they stopped and apologized (which will NEVER happen, let's face it)

and even if they stopped with this shit soon - we all know the only reason they'd be doing that is because the games are selling like ass ... not because they truly changed their minds

so fuck 'em ... that bridge is already burned to the fucking ground as far as i'm concerned

 

[NarohDethan]

Yep, when Epic inevitably fails, they will blame Steam fanboys that love their monopoly.

 

[lashman]

Yep, when Epic inevitably fails, they will blame Steam fanboys that love their monopoly.

of course they will ... i have ZERO doubts about that

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Epic is running on a timer. They have the colossal task of taking out Steam before Fortnite revenue start to dwindle. They are hoping to do this by practically giving away everything on their store and hope people will stick to it.

Fortnite will not be eternal. It will remain popular, sure, but it schtick will get tiresome after a while. This happened to an extent with Minecraft, it is still MASSIVE but you dont see it practically everywhere like some years ago. The difference is that Minecraft is a tool for creative play, basically a bucket full of infinite Lego. Anyone can pick up and play it, and its 'culture neutral' look and feel ensures that it will be on the mainstream forever.

Fortnite is a mediocre shooter with a mediocre crafting mechanic on top. It lives out of popular culture, and when it stops being funny and a more competent competitor steps in, the game will die.

As I said earlier, I remember when PUBG was the new hotness before it got that garbage xxXBOXxx console release.

The only way Epic can win this is if they buy ALL of the indies and AA devs out. The indie scene is just so massive that there's no way they can possibly do that, not even with their supposedly bottomless Fortnite coffers. For every amazing game that they end up snagging up, there are 3 more amazing indies releasing on Steam and elsewhere (especially ones that don't have the graphical polish of a "AA" game) that take their place. It's possible that they may carve out a niche for themselves, but their goal to topple Steam is looking less and less likely, especially with heavy-hitters like Microsoft entering the fray. And I am convinced that they were not expecting Microsoft to take the pot shots against them that they have.

MS entering into the fray is a game-changer, pun intended. As I and others have stated, Metro Exodus being accessible though MS's service totally called the EGS bluff of exclusivity.

Waging war with Steam gonna look like a mistake when it turns out that we as consumers always had more options, but choose Steam. EGS is trying to force us to pick them, but we will not.

 

[Wildebeet]

I think it would be hard to imagine Microsoft going EGS exclusive. I think we're at a point where MS would like to actually sell some games if they're going to buy up studios and keep doing PC. Microsoft is already accused (rightly) of basically doing literally everything wrong with their own store and locked down installs, so going exclusive would be just another dumb move for MS.

 

[C-Dub]

I think Microsoft’s change of tack with PC also reflects their embrace of Android and iOS in the mobile space, and Linux on the OS front.

By siloing everything in their own ecosystem, they were basically leaving money on the table and letting others eat their lunch. It’s the Steve Ballmer mentality.

But that gorilla in a suit is gone now, and so are his bullshit business practices.

 

[RionaaM]

The devs/publishers being an ass to anyone concerned about their business decisions bothers me even more than the exclusivity deals.

Well done Raw Fury, you've joined Deep Silver and Annapurna on my ignore list, and I have removed all your games from my wistlist on Steam. I still have plenty of other great games to play.

Just noticed I had Whispers of a Machine on my wishlist. Removed it 5 seconds ago, and I put the publisher on ignore. No idea if it's useful putting each individual game on ignore too, or if by ignoring the publisher all their games will automatically disappear from my view.

 

[Ge0force]

Just noticed I had Whispers of a Machine on my wishlist. Removed it 5 seconds ago, and I put the publisher on ignore. No idea if it's useful putting each individual game on ignore too, or if by ignoring the publisher all their games will automatically disappear from my view.

Ignoring the publisher should be sufficient afaik. Haven't seen Annapurna or Deep Silver games on my store page so far.

 

[C-Dub]

Games still appear, but they are greyed out with a warning that you are ignoring the publisher. At the very least, it’s a good warning sign.

 

[uraizen]

Yep, when Epic inevitably fails, they will blame Steam fanboys that love their monopoly.

Those damned Steam fanboys.

loads up Xbox app What to play today...?

 

[sauce]

If you want to take down Epic, you're going to have to go after their engine too... I guess the closest competitor is Unity but it has its issues too

 

[C-Dub]

If you want to take down Epic, you're going to have to go after their engine too... I guess the closest competitor is Unity but it has its issues too

For bigger projects Unity doesn’t come close to UE4. I’m not sure who out there has the will or desire to even take Epic on in that space. I mean, I’d love to see someone barge in with an anti-competitive pitch, eat Epic’s lunch and watch Sweeney bitch about it on social media and in the press.

But in reality Epic are doing in the engine space what they’ve done in the store space. They are basically paying developers to switch from Unity to UE4. Sleazy John Ricciteilo was bitching about it at GDC this year.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I really wanted Mosaic, but the Twitter responses... it's beyond words. How does this not come back and hurt them after the Epic money is gone. This isn't a social issue where someone is upset over a joke, misrepresentation, affiliations, etc. This is absolute spitting, laughing, poking fun at, and sarcastically meme-ing their very own consumers; indie consumers have been very loyal! Steam and consumers made these indie darling get swallowed up by the big corps. Now, "lol fuck you ragamuffin fanboys/girls, we got our money." Epic is hurting us, but ultimately, they will also be the ruin of some of these devs/people taking the bait. You took the money, then be honest. I'll be a lot more forgiving. I'd probably take the money too. However, I would be like... "The money was too good to pass up. If this has upset you, I'm sorry. I hope you will still give the game a shot."

Wait is Mosaic now an EGS exclusive too?

 

[Chudah]

I'm curious if any of these developers have signed up for permanent exclusivity, or if all of them are temporary. Have we heard of that actually happening with anyone yet?

 

[Guilty of Being]

Wait is Mosaic now an EGS exclusive too?

It’s from Raw Fury.

 

[lashman]

I'm curious if any of these developers have signed up for permanent exclusivity, or if all of them are temporary. Have we heard of that actually happening with anyone yet?

not yet, no

although - just because the exclusivity runs out after 12 months doesn't automatically mean all those games will appear on steam then

especially for something like WWZ and other multiplayer games which might as well be completely dead after 12 months

 

[Guilty of Being]

Yep, when Epic inevitably fails, they will blame Steam fanboys that love their monopoly.

Facts.

I'm curious if any of these developers have signed up for permanent exclusivity, or if all of them are temporary. Have we heard of that actually happening with anyone yet?

I could see a pub/dev taking an extension bribe if their game is one of the better sellers for EGS. It would go hand-in-hand with all the “best platform experience” bullshit. Tim could inflate his ego (that’s actually desperation in disguise.) It would prove no point but to those few shills/console fanboys arguing in bad faith on another forum... or moneyhat’d game journalists. Hey! What’s up, PC Gamer?

 

[Doctor Ironic]

I know a lot of PC gamers don’t mind using different launchers and storefronts but I also don’t understand why it should be considered such a crime to only want to use Steam. People keep fixating on monopolies as the main problem of capitalism, which is true, but that leads them to overlook another, which is oversaturation and a lack of standards - such as when you go to the store, need to buy toothpaste, and discover an entire aisle is taken up of forty different brands and models that all do the same thing. No movie collector complains that Movies Anywhere is monopolistic (though it is owned by Disney, which is for other reasons.) Nobody complains that Xbox Live has a monopoly on Xboxes. Universal, agreed-upon standards are a good thing that let us use them as a springboard to actually get places, and I’m definitely way less inclined to buy a game if it’s exclusively on Origin or Battle.net because keeping a memorized spreadsheet of which program I need to launch which game is a headache I shouldn’t have to deal with.

 

[MJunioR]

I know a lot of PC gamers don’t mind using different launchers and storefronts but I also don’t understand why it should be considered such a crime to only want to use Steam. People keep fixating on monopolies as the main problem of capitalism, which is true, but that leads them to overlook another, which is oversaturation and a lack of standards - such as when you go to the store, need to buy toothpaste, and discover an entire aisle is taken up of forty different brands and models that all do the same thing. No movie collector complains that Movies Anywhere is monopolistic (though it is owned by Disney, which is for other reasons.) Nobody complains that Xbox Live has a monopoly on Xboxes. Universal, agreed-upon standards are a good thing that let us use them as a springboard to actually get places, and I’m definitely way less inclined to buy a game if it’s exclusively on Origin or Battle.net because keeping a memorized spreadsheet of which program I need to launch which game is a headache I shouldn’t have to deal with.

It's because if you don't feel comfortable using every software piece that publishers throw out, barebones as they might be (or even harmful to your computer), so you can pay for their games, you suck and you hate developers and you will kill the industry.

 

[Swenhir]

For bigger projects Unity doesn’t come close to UE4. I’m not sure who out there has the will or desire to even take Epic on in that space. I mean, I’d love to see someone barge in with an anti-competitive pitch, eat Epic’s lunch and watch Sweeney bitch about it on social media and in the press.

But in reality Epic are doing in the engine space what they’ve done in the store space. They are basically paying developers to switch from Unity to UE4. Sleazy John Ricciteilo was bitching about it at GDC this year.

I know Epic has grants they pay to specific projects that seem promising and use their engine, is this what you are talking about? And what was the angle Riccitelo mentioned?

 

[Alexandros]

I know a lot of PC gamers don’t mind using different launchers and storefronts but I also don’t understand why it should be considered such a crime to only want to use Steam.

It's part of the "competition!" narrative.

 

[Swenhir]

Anyone who owns a digital movie collection knows that having to use different "launchers" (services/websites/apps/etc) to access them all is a gigantic and absurd pain in the ass.

It's certainly not my main reason for hating the EGS, but the "just a launcher" argument really is dumb since that's still a valid reason to hate more stores.

Speaking of which, I'm seeing this defense of possibly incredibly draconian DRM on Microsoft's behalf surrounding their subscription model.

Am I the only one very worried to see Microsoft remove the ability for users to have control over his own files? So far it can be circumvented by the idea and intent terrifies me. The only thing I've seen people reply to this was "it's a subscription durr" which really misses the point, being the implementation.

The subscription model sounded good at first from a business perspective in that it offered a count-power to Epic. However I am seeing the way it allows Microsoft to take one step closer to turning the PC into a mobile/console-like device by spreading this capability silently and it worries me a hell of a lot.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Anyone who owns a digital movie collection knows that having to use different "launchers" (services/websites/apps/etc) to access them all is a gigantic and absurd pain in the ass.

It's certainly not my main reason for hating the EGS, but the "just a launcher" argument really is dumb since that's still a valid reason to hate more stores.

Agreedo. Movies Anywhere has been a Godsend for me, and every time I find a studio isn’t on it, it’s so frustrating. Trying to load John Wick on my Xbox only to find it wasn’t there because I had gotten so used to such a nice standard for digital movie collection, and Lionsgate hadn’t, was a real kick in the ass.

I just want to use Steam. I don’t have to keep track of multiple logins, multiple friends lists, worrying about my credit card getting yoinked from whichever launcher decides to lax on security, which one has what games and supports what controllers. There already is a best option and everyone was fine using it until two or three years ago. I think a big problem with the EGS fiasco is that it’s shifting the Overton window on this topic so far that PC gamers are now begging to not use EGS even if we get a scenario where every publisher has their own launcher. Sorry, that’s a nightmare too.

It's part of the "competition!" narrative.

“Competition is always good!” is libertarian propaganda through and through, and demonstrably untrue through way more scenarios than just our current PC gaming one. I can barely believe so many have bought into it, but to speak of it further would be getting into a whole political essay outside of the scope of this thread.

 

[derFeef]

This is still bugging me.

 

[bobnowhere]

The guy is a liar, simple.

 

[Xiaomi]

“Competition is always good!” is libertarian propaganda through and through, and demonstrably untrue through way more scenarios than just our current PC gaming one. I can barely believe so many have bought into it, but to speak of it further would be getting into a whole political essay outside of the scope of this thread.

A lot of people just hear "monopoly" and think it means "really popular company," rather than a company that has an unfair amount of control over the industry-wide means of production. Meanwhile Epic is owned by a literal, state-sanctioned monopoly and the gaming press has decided to give it a collective "I sleep."

 

[Ge0force]

This is still bugging me.

Epic gave him a bloody good reason: a huge pile of cash. This is no different than the many gamers using EGS despite hating it when Epic offered them a €10 discount, or accepting UWP and the Windows Store when Microsoft gave out free trials for game pass.

For many people, free cash seems to be enough to drop their morals completely.

 

[Nabs]

This is still bugging me.

I bet Epic never even hit them up for an exclusive deal until this article. That was basically the Epic bat signal, and their money bags were probably way heavier than anticipated. I'd love for someone to leak some numbers one of these days.

Hey Epic, if you need a shill with gaming forum accounts in good standing, don't even bother looking in my direction. I'd need a really good reason to ever turn my back on this platform.

 

[derFeef]

It fucking sucks. I am a huge fan of the ZA games... Strange Brigade was okay but did not like the setting that much.
I guess another dev to add to my list...

 

[ISee]

However I am seeing the way it allows Microsoft to take one step closer to turning the PC into a mobile/console-like device by spreading this capability silently and it worries me a hell of a lot.

Worries me too.
I subscribed to game pass. Let's be honest, it's a good deal. But encryption is a no go for me. It's my system, my drive, I paid and build it myself and I demand access to everything on it. I always had that kind of access and I'm not willing to give it up.
Do we know if this is maybe just a transitional period? I know that Microsoft is planning to make windows apps (will all be win32 in the future) available without the windows store.
Download from any website style.

 

[Ge0force]

I know that Microsoft is planning to make windows apps (will all be win32 in the future) available without the windows store.

Correct. But UWP isn't the major problem for PC gaming. The file encryption and locked down WindowsApps folder is. So let's hope Microsoft stops using this as well for pc games.

 

[Swenhir]

Worries me too.
I subscribed to game pass. Let's be honest, it's a good deal. But encryption is a no go for me. It's my system, my drive, I paid and build it myself and I demand access to everything on it. I always had that kind of access and I'm not willing to give it up.
Do we know if this is maybe just a transitional period? I know that Microsoft is planning to make windows apps (will all be win32 in the future) available without the windows store.

The way I understand it, right now the implementation is a joke. It's basically user rights and if can be circumvented easily. The issue is that this is regimented at the kernel level, not in userspace meaning that if Microsoft really wants to, they can lock you out of files on your own hardware.

Point is, I understand the need for a DRM surrounding subscriptions. It's dumb, those games are all cracked anyway but it's a little like Steam. It's not about the effectiveness of the DRM, it's about pretending that there is one. The problem is that this particular, really dumb implementation sets a very dangerous precedent.

 

[ISee]

Correct. But UWP isn't the major problem for PC gaming. The file encryption and locked down WindowsApps folder is. So let's hope Microsoft stops using this as well for pc games.

I know, I know.
It's like Microsoft misunderstood what the problem is. I've read an interview (or article?) Where they clearly state that they noticed that their users prefer win32. The ability to download from literally everywhere is also important to users and that's why they are going to implement new UI features into win32 (or provide better tools). They want to long term transition to win32 only and the Google initiated "progressive web app program" (probably one of the reasons why they are switching to chromium for edge).
As most people I assumed this is the end of the encryption. Maybe we need to start asking them on twitter.

 

[Ge0force]

13000 dislikes and rising



Sadly 4800 likes as well...

 

[ISee]

13000 dislikes and rising



Sadly 4800 likes as well...

13113 and rising.
Did my part.

 

[derFeef]

Wait, Phoenix Point is now coming to the Windows Store at launch as well? So it realls is just about blocking Steam. Wow.
Is that legally possible even? EU law?

 

[Dandy]

13000 dislikes and rising



Sadly 4800 likes as well...

I must've missed the Griftlands announcement. That's a shame. I like Klei.

 

[prudis]

griftlands is hilarious case :-D they use Epic to kickstart alpha development and next year they plan to launch erly access

 

[Dandy]

griftlands is hilarious case :-D they use Epic to kickstart alpha development and next year they plan to launch erly access

That's great actually, though now it sounds like it's not really the same game they announced back in 2017.

 

[ISee]

Wait, Phoenix Point is now coming to the Windows Store at launch as well? So it realls is just about blocking Steam. Wow.
Is that legally possible even? EU law?

It's coming, but I'm not sure if it is coming on day one tbh.
Also outer worlds... ^^
That's three EGS exclusives that will be on game pass.

AFAIK, no you are not allowed to make deals excluding just one of your competitors.
But exclusivities are allowed, just not long term (whatever that means).
The thing is, the situation is probably way more complicated than we know.

Phoenix Point and Metro Exodus were negotiate long time before Epic went public with their store. Microsoft had those games in their Xbox Game Pass pocket (announced last e3, negotiation must have happened long before that) before epic started talking to them (negotiation about metro started some time after last year's e3).
Was PC game pass always included in the Microsoft deal and epic had to swallow that? Did Microsoft find a loophole in those contracts that allows them to publish said games and epic is angry about it? What's the wording in the egsclusivity deals? Is Steam explicitly named and everything else is allowed?
Is everything named that is "forbidden" but game pass wasn't mentioned because epic thought it's a console thing?
I have literally no idea and just speculating here. But I imagine it's not as easy as epic clearly breaking EU law because three games are coming to game pass, but not steam. It's an understandable assumption and I'm sure epic is just interested in harming steam (uplay deal) but that's not a smoking gun.

 

[prudis]

there is more than just these three .... Operancia is also metioned in PC gamepass, maybe even some others

 

[lashman]

It fucking sucks. I am a huge fan of the ZA games

same ... i was actually looking forward to it when the announcement leaked ... and then this fucking bullshit happened

Is that legally possible even? EU law?

It's an understandable assumption and I'm sure epic is just interested in harming steam (uplay deal) but that's not a smoking gun.

yeah ... i doubt they wouldn't have covered their ass with that ... unfortunately

 

[Ge0force]

griftlands is hilarious case :-D they use Epic to kickstart alpha development and next year they plan to launch erly access

Yeah this actually looks like KLEI is abusing Epic's deal. They are getting Epic's money, but they are still doing early access + day 1 release on Steam. I may even be fine with this.

 

[Deleted member 113]

Yeah this actually looks like KLEI is abusing Epic's deal. They are getting Epic's money, but they are still doing early access + day 1 release on Steam. I may even be fine with this.

Yeah, but read their justification for doing this, and laugh a bit.
It's not for the money. It's that they always launch on different stores.

To quote:

"Klei has a history of partnering with new distribution platforms when starting new projects, for example the Don’t Starve Alpha was only available on the Chrome Webstore, and the Invisible Inc. Alpha was only available through the Humble Widget as a direct download. After rebooting the game, Epic approached us as a partner and we felt that this fit well with our process of going from Alpha to garner feedback before putting it on all platforms. "

Steam :: Griftlands :: Griftlands Reboot, Alpha and Roadmap

Originally posted by Bigfoot on the official forums Hello everyone! As you may have seen at the PC Game Show, we are finally ready to talk about Griftlands. As always we try not to say too much until we’re reasonably sure we have solid information to give you, but we're feeling confident with...

steamcommunity.com

 

[C-Dub]

Wait, Phoenix Point is now coming to the Windows Store at launch as well? So it realls is just about blocking Steam. Wow.
Is that legally possible even? EU law?

When has Epic ever given a shit about EU law? Aren't they still in violation of GDPR?

 

[Ge0force]

Yeah, but read their justification for doing this, and laugh a bit.
It's not for the money. It's that they always launch on different stores.

To quote:

"Klei has a history of partnering with new distribution platforms when starting new projects, for example the Don’t Starve Alpha was only available on the Chrome Webstore, and the Invisible Inc. Alpha was only available through the Humble Widget as a direct download. After rebooting the game, Epic approached us as a partner and we felt that this fit well with our process of going from Alpha to garner feedback before putting it on all platforms. "

Steam :: Griftlands :: Griftlands Reboot, Alpha and Roadmap

Originally posted by Bigfoot on the official forums Hello everyone! As you may have seen at the PC Game Show, we are finally ready to talk about Griftlands. As always we try not to say too much until we’re reasonably sure we have solid information to give you, but we're feeling confident with...

steamcommunity.com

Haha yeah that's nonsense as usual. But still, this deal doesn't affect the huge majority of Steam users at all. Only a very small amount of people wants to play Alpha's, so this exclusivity deal seems like a huge waste of Epic's money to me.

 

[bobnowhere]

Interesting.

 

[lashman]

Interesting.

seriously ... fuck epic