News Epic Games Store

[Deleted member 113]

Gollop did (almost) the same ... epic key, steam key + 12 months of "free" DLC

And still, in both cases, I ended refunding them anyway.

They could have told me I would get an EGS account with all available games, and all future games for free, and I can assure you I still wouldn't take it.
Yeah, I'm grumpy like that. When I fell "disrespected", like when Gallop pulled that crap (and I remind you, he had been distributing early versions of the game as a DRM-free download, and going forward, he denied even providing a download of the game; it's EGS or nothing), I'm not sold by a freebie or two.

 

[lashman]

And still, in both cases, I ended refunding them anyway.

as you should have

 

[Le Pertti]

There has to be consumer laws against those kinds of things right? Promising one thing and then delivering another?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Never take any EGS PR at face value.

There has to be consumer laws against those kinds of things right? Promising one thing and then delivering another?

They're probably covered by the "we will deliver it, just later" bit

 

[Ganado]

Of course Heavy Rain uses Denuvo..

Too bad there is no forums so that I can check if others have the same problem!

 

[FireEmoji]

So, without even considering whether or not Epic's moneyhat is included in the revenue amount, since we know it's in the form of guaranteed minimum sales and it very well could be,

They did specifically call out "unit sales" which may have been mentioned to remove any ambiguity over the moneyhat being included.

 

[RionaaM]

This is hilarious.
As you may have heard, Human Head decided to go for EGS exclusivity, and announced it by releasing a video and promoting things on social media, while not even bothering to send an email to those who pre-ordered the game months ago (in my case, it was last August) until many hours later, when people started complaining.

Not only they didn't make the link for refunds very clear on previous communications (there wasn't one that I could find on their email; I had to follow a link on youtube!), but now they are emailing their customers, trying to dissuade them from asking for a refund.

Here's the email I just received.

​ Greetings Warriors!

​ We understand that pre-order supporters were promised a Steam key for their pre-order purchase. To that end, we are offering every person that has pre-ordered RUNE II before 05/22/19 an additional Steam key containing all pre-order incentives, to be delivered when we launch on Steam in Summer 2020. ​ ​ In summary, all RUNE II pre-order purchasers will receive: An Epic Games store key (1) with all of their pre-order incentives. (Summer 2019) BONUS! An Epic Games store key (1) with the standard edition of RUNE II (Summer 2019) NEW BONUS! A Steam key (1) with all of pre-order incentives (Estimated: Summer 2020) As Chris Rhinehart said in our Q&A video, we still firmly believe that Epic Games is the correct partner for us to align with. That said, we want to do right for the community that has supported Human Head Studios in the past 20 years. If you would still like a refund, you can submit that request up until 6/5/19 at: RUNE II Refund Form Through your comments, tweets, Discord messages, and more, we’ve heard you loud and clear. We will constantly strive to improve the way that we communicate about these types of matters in the future. Thank You, The RUNE II Development Team

Clearly, the reaction to the news was overwhelmingly positive indeed.
Needless to say, I have asked for a refund, and I'm not changing my mind.

No really, if you don't cancel your preorder Tim himself is going to come to your house and fellate whatever genital you happen to possess. Or you get to fellate him, if you so please.

 

[Le Pertti]

It really is so bizarre how they think, "here, take two of the thing you don't want!"

 

[Deleted member 113]

No really, if you don't cancel your preorder Tim himself is going to come to your house and fellate whatever genital you happen to possess. Or you get to fellate him, if you so please.

Yeah, I still think I'll pass, and keep my refund request.

 

[RionaaM]

There has to be consumer laws against those kinds of things right? Promising one thing and then delivering another?

Nah, capitalism is broken like that.

You know the saying that goes "People become more right wing as they age?" Well, for me it's actually going the other way

 

[BillyBawb]

Of course Heavy Rain uses Denuvo..

Too bad there is no forums so that I can check if others have the same problem!

Funnily enough (at least for me) if you try to look up the error code you get the Steam forums for Metro Exodus...from people on the Epic Games launcher having the same problem.
Cant Launch the game Status: 88500000 :: Metro Exodus General Discussions

 

[Ex-User (307)]

Nah, capitalism is broken like that.

You know the saying that goes "People become more right wing as they age?" Well, for me it's actually going the other way

I mean, we do have laws against false advertisement that are decently enforced in some industries. The gaming industry just happens to be pretty much the worst one I've ever dealt with when it comes to changing products before release, amendment of offered items and refund availability.

Presumably, as long as you're allowed to refund the product or as long as they deliver the promised item at some point, they can probably change it however they want.

It's shitty, but it's not shockingly shitty like the people who actually crowdfunded something's outright creation.

 

[Ganado]

Funnily enough (at least for me) if you try to look up the error code you get the Steam forums for Metro Exodus...from people on the Epic Games launcher having the same problem.

Haha, woow. Too bad Quantic Dream didn't get to set up the community hub on Steam before they went exclusive.

 

[lashman]

Funnily enough (at least for me) if you try to look up the error code you get the Steam forums for Metro Exodus...from people on the Epic Games launcher having the same problem.
Cant Launch the game Status: 88500000 :: Metro Exodus General Discussions

it's almost like having built-in forums for every single game on your platform helps people find solution to common problems easier ... or something

 

[Joe Spangle]

Everybody knows forums are rubbish.

 

[Ganado]

it's almost like having built-in forums for every single game on your platform helps people find solution to common problems easier ... or something

Nooooo.... I-i-it only helps to spread hate!

 

[lashman]

Everybody knows forums are rubbish.

no lies detected

 

[gabbo]

Nooooo.... I-i-it only helps to spread hate!

shut up you n00b! we dont take kindly to your game playin type 'round NeoGAF ResetERA ... MetaCouncil parts
/s

I rarely use the steam forums, but when I do im glad they're there. Has helped with quite a few doozies. Echelon Wind Warriors wouldnt have actually installed on my hard drive (though it remains unplayed) if not for the forums.

 

[m_dorian]

I see Steam forums as a positive feature since i usually find my self browsing them when i search something about a game and i often find a solution. That goes for GOG forums too.
I really want the Epic Store (and the windows store to a lesser extent) to be consumer friendly and find success through this and not through limiting the consumer's options or forcefully inviting them to game on an environment that lacks character and features.
No matter how many free games Epic will offer, if they continue imprisoning games and act like a-holes as they do now, will always not only scare away people like me but make feel that the proper way of dealing with them is not to give them my money ever.

If the want the content of my wallet they have to be nicer and mean it.

 

[Arsene]

Steam Guides and Forums are both super useful features for tech support and walkthroughs and anyone who thinks they’re useless features can shove it.

 

[gabbo]

I see Steam forums as a positive feature since i usually find my self browsing them when i search something about a game and i often find a solution. That goes for GOG forums too.
I really want the Epic Store (and the windows store to a lesser extent) to be consumer friendly and find success through this and not through limiting the consumer's options or forcefully inviting them to game on an environment that lacks character and features.
No matter how many free games Epic will offer, if they continue imprisoning games and act like a-holes as they do now, will always not only scare away people like me but make feel that the proper way of dealing with them is not to give them my money ever.

If the want the content of my wallet they have to be nicer and mean it.

I look at it like this; free games doesn't earn them enough good will or respect from me to counteract the shitty aspects of what they're doing with their consumer antagonistic storefront/app and exclusivity bullshit. The window for them to turn this around is smaller every time Epic fails forward and gives PC gamers a figurative shit eating grin about it.

Forums would be nice, but are like 12th on a list of things theyd to change. Nice to have, but not the root of the problem

 

[Digoman]

Not that anyone would ever argue in bad faith on the internet ... but when someone says that the Steam forums have nothing useful and is just full of nazi crap I just assume they aren't PC gamers (or at least don't play a great variety of games). Lost count long ago on how many techincal problems (big and small) I solved by looking there. And since most of the time when you google the problem you end up there anyway, either the person is extremely lucky and never had any glitches on games or they simply don't play them at all. Of course better moderation would be nice, but just as reviews, the positives far outweigh the bad.

I look at it like this; free games doesn't earn them enough good will or respect from me to counteract the shitty aspects of what they're doing with their consumer antagonistic storefront/app and exclusivity bullshit. The window for them to turn this around is smaller every time Epic fails forward and gives PC gamers a figurative shit eating grin about it.

Forums would be nice, but are like 12th on a list of things theyd to change. Nice to have, but not the root of the problem

Yeah. Unless they change their fundamentals of their approach, some token gestures aren't going to change my mind about them. But they done so much damage to the whole platform that I don't even know what they would have to do for "redemption" in my eyes. But hey, I'm actually liking what Microsoft is doing these days so anything is possible

 

[FireEmoji]

I wish all games came to Steam and the store categorically sucks but I’m not passionate enough about the issues at hand to get more than just a little annoyed and the 12% cut is sort of fascinating to see. It’s a challenge not only to the console industry but the entire digital distribution market.

Tim Sweeney rubs me the wrong way too but I’m kinda similar on that too; the level of vitriol kinda cracks me up lol

 

[Derrick01]

12% upsets me because I can see that long term it will result in me paying much more for games than I do now, if it catches on at least. I admit this is selfish but I also don't see anything wrong with that when it comes to my money. Everyone on earth is out there to get the best deal for themselves and spend as little as possible. If these billion dollar corporations can screw people over just to get a handout from Epic and people will defend their right to do that then I should be able to spend as little as possible and do everything I legally can to spend as little as I can.

 

[Yoshi]

I feel like the 88/12 revenue split is a smokescreen. You can't claim to care about developers while also temporarily blocking them from Steam, where they'd make a shitload of money. To me, these exclusivity deals really hurt their cause and it just doesn't feel genuine at all when they say they "care" about devs, especially when they're handpicking certain games they deem worthy.

 

[gabbo]

12% upsets me because I can see that long term it will result in me paying much more for games than I do now, if it catches on at least. I admit this is selfish but I also don't see anything wrong with that when it comes to my money. Everyone on earth is out there to get the best deal for themselves and spend as little as possible. If these billion dollar corporations can screw people over just to get a handout from Epic and people will defend their right to do that then I should be able to spend as little as possible and do everything I legally can to spend as little as I can.

You are not obligated to help developers, you owe them nothing, so don't feel bad about the somewhat selfish outlook. We act like devs wouldn't also try to get pay pennies for games too, when we al know they would to benefit themselves. You dont sign a contract stating you have to be selfless when you start gaming.

 

[m_dorian]

The 88% will work well for publishers like Ubisoft which seem to have gained increased attraction to their own marketplace than rely on the Epic bribe plus the earnings. Smallest publishers and developers will probably start gaining from that split when the Epic store gains a good number of conscious, loyal customers and i do not think this has happened yet.

Being a low class citizen myself I can sympathize with the little people that try to save their businesses but there has to be a line they should not cross over.

Metro publisher did a disgraceful act surrendering the game to the Greedy Merchant after building hype and promises on other video game stores. I think i ll stop pretending i am surprised by THQ/Deep Silver and associates, if there is something awful for them to do they will surely do it.
Gollop and Human Head sold their souls to the EGS demon after building their crowdfunding on promises they will not keep as perceived.
I mean, get your money, do your stupid move and sent your game to rot only to be shadowed by the next exclusive deal but your loyalty should rest on your backers and you need to your honour word not delay it for a year or so. Plain fucking principles.

I ll admit that i am more annoyed by Gollop's stance, i ve spent countless hours playing his games and watching him trying to justify his dishonesty on this pathetic video made me feel ashamed for him and very, very disappointed.

 

[Derrick01]

You are not obligated to help developers, you owe them nothing, so don't feel bad about the somewhat selfish outlook. We act like devs wouldn't also try to get pay pennies for games too, when we al know they would to benefit themselves. You dont sign a contract stating you have to be selfless when you start gaming.

Yeah I don't feel bad personally but sometimes after browsing certain areas they can leave the impression that you're supposed to be friends with devs or feel obligated to support them. I wish more people would realize that it's a business relationship and nothing more*, they're putting out a product and if we think it's interesting we buy it.

*Obviously I'm talking about most people's situations. I understand some actually know devs and are friends with them, that's not what I meant.

 

[gabbo]

Yeah I don't feel bad personally but sometimes after browsing certain areas they can leave the impression that you're supposed to be friends with devs or feel obligated to support them. I wish more people would realize that it's a business relationship and nothing more*, they're putting out a product and if we think it's interesting we buy it.

*Obviously I'm talking about most people's situations. I understand some actually know devs and are friends with them, that's not what I meant.

Yeah, being friends with devs is different. I'll shill for friends to help get the word out on their work, and I see how there is some cognitive dissonance on my part there, but I don't feel those two things need be mutually exclusive. I can help friends and still try to get the best deal for myself. Capitalism is built on such notions

 

[Stone Ocean]

People have bought into this "struggling devs" narrative so hard it's like they're starting to equate buying a videogame to donating to a Patreon.

This ain't a charity my dudes. I'll "help" when I can and if I feel like it by buying a game on release at full price, every copy I buy is still support. If you need more than that you might want to start looking at other careers.

 

[Arsene]

People have bought into this "struggling devs" narrative so hard that they're starting to equate buying a videogame to donating to a Patreon.

This ain't a charity my dudes. I'll "help" when I can and if I feel like it by buying a game on release at full price, every copy I buy is still support. If you need more than that you might want to start looking at other careers.

People forget that devs are companies and games are products.

 

[Ex-User (307)]

People have bought into this "struggling devs" narrative so hard it's like they're starting to equate buying a videogame to donating to a Patreon.

This ain't a charity my dudes. I'll "help" when I can and if I feel like it by buying a game on release at full price, every copy I buy is still support. If you need more than that you might want to start looking at other careers.

The other issue of course, as has been stated ad nauseam, is that the "struggling devs" that we're supposed to care about on EGS aren't actually the struggling devs.

Maybe Supergiant is struggling to followup the hit success of Bastion, sure. But you already had your breakout success selling 3 million copies of a game. What you do or don't do with turning that success into sustained success and momentum is your own fault, not mine. No one told you to make some weirdo visual novel crossed with NBA Jam.

I have no way to prove it, but I would guess that a significant portion of the people whining about the "struggling devs" probably do very little to delve into the world of indie games to find special gems that need attention.

 

[gabbo]

People forget that devs are companies and games are products.

Bu-bu-but Reggie is such a great guy, all those E3 keynotes, we really connected and we're friends! He's creating the games I want! How can I not give the former president of the north american division of a multinational corporation a donation for a chair he could easily afford? Have you no heart!? /s

The other issue of course, as has been stated ad nauseam, is that the "struggling devs" that we're supposed to care about on EGS aren't actually the struggling devs.

Maybe Supergiant is struggling to followup the hit success of Bastion, sure. But you already had your breakout success selling 3 million copies of a game. What you do or don't do with turning that success into sustained success and momentum is your own fault, not mine. No one told you to make some weirdo visual novel crossed with NBA Jam.

I have no way to prove it, but I would guess that a significant portion of the people whining about the "struggling devs" probably do very little to delve into the world of indie games to find special gems that need attention.

I'd go farther and say indie games in general. Anything that isn't splashed all over <game publication/website> or Steam/gog top banner probably doesn't interest the people crying out to support Struggling Devs™

 

[Hektor]

 

[NarohDethan]

 

[hankenta]

Devs (people) are struggling, but they're struggling because they're abused by companies like Epic (referring to crunch).

 

[m_dorian]

 

[Rogue Agent]

So they may include Cloud Saves in May. Maybe.

 

[Ex-User (307)]

Devs (people) are struggling, but they're struggling because they're abused by companies like Epic (referring to crunch).

Ironically yeah. All the deals for "struggling devs" like Supergiant are being made on the corpses of burned out Epic workers pumping man-hours into the Fortnite cash cow.

 

[Ascheroth]

Ironically yeah. All the deals for "struggling devs" like Supergiant are being made on the corpses of burned out Epic workers pumping man-hours into the Fortnite cash cow.

I wonder how it must feel to be on the Fortnite team when you work yourself to death for a (presumably) normal salary while you see Papa Tim throwing around millions at other devs.

 

[lashman]

Ironically yeah. All the deals for "struggling devs" like Supergiant are being made on the corpses of burned out Epic workers pumping man-hours into the Fortnite cash cow.

"we really care about developers ... unless you work for us, then fuck you and your well being"

I wonder how it must feel to be on the Fortnite team when you work yourself to death for a (presumably) normal salary while you see Papa Tim throwing around millions at other devs.

oh, i'm sure they're positively ecstatic ... NOT

 

[Big_Al]

As someone who works in IT, Sweeney reminds me of that one wanker I'm sure anyone who works in IT has encountered. They are extremely gifted and amazing at say programming (and he is, the Unreal Engine is an amazing engine and has obviously benefitted the industry greatly) but who's also an egotistical twat who can't take criticism, thinks they know best about everything they talk about and do, rubs people up the wrong way and generally has folks that they talk to wanting to slap them.

 

[Ex-User (307)]

I wonder how it must feel to be on the Fortnite team when you work yourself to death for a (presumably) normal salary while you see Papa Tim throwing around millions at other devs.

A significant portion of the Fortnite team is supposedly easily replaceable contract workers, so they don’t even have the comfort and rights of an actual traditional salaried position.

 

[BernardoOne]

The roadmap was never anything but a smokescreen to show journalists how they're "totally working to address the lack of features quickly". It was never a actual representation of when they actually plan to do the thing. They don't give a shit about actually making those features. They'll keep the store team the same skeleton crew it is now and make the other thousands work on Fortnite instead. I don't expect cloud saves to be there in June either.

 

[FireEmoji]

12% upsets me because I can see that long term it will result in me paying much more for games than I do now,

Explain? Why would stores taking significantly less money from publishers cause games to cost more?

I wonder how it must feel to be on the Fortnite team when you work yourself to death for a (presumably) normal salary while you see Papa Tim throwing around millions at other devs.

Article I read said Fortnite devs get massive bonuses, including the contract work.

Salaries are allegedly competitive and bonuses are 3 times the salary.

 

[Digoman]

Explain? Why would stores taking significantly less money from publishers cause games to cost more?

In general, since Steam let's developers generate keys for third-party resellers for free, these stores usually offer discounts from their standard 30% cut. That's how Greenmangaming and others can constantly offer 10%-20% off pre-orders and new games. So if the price stay at $60 with the %12 cut, the developer gets more, but the consumer also looses those deals and ends up paying more.

Article I read said Fortnite devs get massive bonuses, including the contract work.

Salaries are allegedly competitive and bonuses are 3 times the salary.

Bonus are good, but general work conditions are not. It's a neverending crunch because Fortnite is a GaaS so it's always updating.

How Fortnite’s success led to months of intense crunch at Epic Games

Sources reveal long hours and intense pressure while working on hit game

www.polygon.com

“I was working at least 12-hour days, seven days a week, for at least four or five months,” said one source. “A lot of that was having to stay at work till 3 or 4 in the morning.”

 

[FireEmoji]

In general, since Steam let's developers generate keys for third-party resellers for free, these stores usually offer discounts from their standard 30% cut. That's how Greenmangaming and others can constantly offer 10%-20% off pre-orders and new games. So if the price stay at $60 with the %12 cut, the developer gets more, but the consumer also looses those deals and ends up paying more.

Ah gotcha, didn't think about the Epic code generator stuff.

Bonus are good, but general work conditions are not. It's a neverending crunch because Fortnite is a GaaS so it's always updating.

How Fortnite’s success led to months of intense crunch at Epic Games

Sources reveal long hours and intense pressure while working on hit game

www.polygon.com

Well at least for the software developers; get a different job.

You choose to work that much in this field and you do it for the money. Same with being a contractor; you guys talk like they are second class citizens and really I MISS the days when there was more direct contract work in software development.

Outside of the actual developers I'm sure the job market is a bit different though (level designers, artists, etc.) but if you are writing code at Epic I don't really have sympathy for you.

 

[BernardoOne]

Explain? Why would stores taking significantly less money from publishers cause games to cost more?

Article I read said Fortnite devs get massive bonuses, including the contract work.

Salaries are allegedly competitive and bonuses are 3 times the salary.

third party stores rely on their cut to remain competitive and offer good discounts. Sites like GMG woulg go out of business in a year if that cut became standard,

 

[Derrick01]

third party stores rely on their cut to remain competitive and offer good discounts. Sites like GMG woulg go out of business in a year if that cut became standard,

Even if they didn't go out of business the absolute best discount they would be able to offer people is what...8%? 10%? At that low of an amount most of those sites are rendered pointless as it's not that uncommon for a game to get a 10% discount even on Steam itself.

 

[Matimeo]

In defense of Epics roadmap, now that I get to live in PM land in my new role, a roadmap is simply a plan.
It is not a promise, and with everyone being forced haphazardly down the agile development work flow, it is even more likely to change..

For example my manager has had a roadmap for 6 months , he meets with leadership at least once a month, to present this roadmap and other artifacts to justify his resource request. In those 6 months he has gotten 0 resources allocated. All he can do is each month , he updates the schedule and roadmap using calculations he has made on how long various features will take IF he actually had resources to hit the deliverable dates.

What he can show leadership is if they want to continue to hit the originally planned date, the resource needs go up,
however if the resource need must remain capped, he can show them how much further out the schedule has become.

This is all pretty normal, and why companies hesitate to share true internal roadmaps, and usually instead share much more "marketing plans" that appear to be roadmaps. Real roadmaps change all the time, and if using agile, can change every sprint (usually 2 weeks).

If a feature gets delivered within a sprint or two (2-4 weeks) of planned thats usually seen as pretty good.
Holidays, company wide meetings, people out sick (especially with smaller teams) is often not planned ahead for as well as they should be which is also why features rarely hit their initial dates.

My guess is its a super small team, and much like the teams in my org, running a store comes with not just feature work but what we call Ops.
Ops work will always trump feature work. Often companies do not have Ops resources separated from feature resources when teams are small.
So feature work will always get delayed , if live incidents come up, or ops work (which is often unplanned) pops up which is needed to keep the current thing running.

The other issue with roadmaps is they are much more "we would like to" then based on any actual work,task data.
This also means most people just dont rely on them so they are not updated as often. I only update the roadmap for my product once a quarter (so 4 times a year) . Looking thru my feature backlog status would probably get you a much more current update as to where things are as that is maintained weekly.

The biggest disrupter to plans the team has committed to is leadership.
They will decide they need something else more, and yank resources for other things, or prioritize other work that may not be customer facing thus wont be listed on a public facing roadmap.

Epic will need to decide how they want to communicate here or do like most teams and not share a legit roadmap but a much more high level one with lots of buffer so they can somewhat meet expectations.