EGS is so poisonous that I've gone super liking GOG2 until I saw games from EGS pop up on there and seeing friends play... it seriously soured the whole app!XD Wish there was a way to block all content from EGS so I don't have to see it.
News Epic Games Store
- Thread starter Blizniak
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I was just wondering something, is there any case where a dev/pub willingly went ahead and released a game exclusively on the EGS while hand-waving any sort of upfront financial incentive? Simply reaching out to Epic and saying "We'd like to release this game over there. We don't need cash and we don't want any sort of guaranteed sales. All we want is to get in."
I can't think of any and I highly doubt there's a single case we this happened. Don't just say Epic is the best fit for your game and community, prove it with your actions. Make it exclusive over there forever without any incentives.
The cynic and jaded old man in me can think of a couple of things like paying for online multiplayer access (just like consoles), tiered account with different levels of access (for instance, gold has access to all releases and features, whatever they are, free users can only access games that are older than X months and/or don't have access to some or all features), timed access to the software licences you bought effectively turning it into a renting system masked as a storefront. There's a lot of outlandish ideas that before less and less outlandish as days go by. There's also things like price control and disabling customer feedback that are things they actively pursue and enforce right now.
I can't think of any and I highly doubt there's a single case we this happened. Don't just say Epic is the best fit for your game and community, prove it with your actions. Make it exclusive over there forever without any incentives.
The cynic and jaded old man in me can think of a couple of things like paying for online multiplayer access (just like consoles), tiered account with different levels of access (for instance, gold has access to all releases and features, whatever they are, free users can only access games that are older than X months and/or don't have access to some or all features), timed access to the software licences you bought effectively turning it into a renting system masked as a storefront. There's a lot of outlandish ideas that before less and less outlandish as days go by. There's also things like price control and disabling customer feedback that are things they actively pursue and enforce right now.
No. There hasn't been, The funniest thing to me is most publishers that took an exclusivity deal like Devolver, 505 Games, TinyBuild, and THQ Nordic never released any of their other 2019 releases on EGS, Only Steam and/or GOG. Hell several of the non-exclusive 2019 games that DID launch on EGS like My Time at Portia and Outward didn't even release on EGS until way after Steam.
Epic offers a better cut and signs exclusivity deals with publishers and they still don't put their games up there unless they get paid for it. Great platform epic.
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What? Why? What the heck is going on here...
Because apparently if you move a criticism you are fueling psychopath and sociopath, that's the videogame medium at its finest and I'm already disgusted. As if it wasn't enough to have journalist and such spreading bullshit, now they can freely tell everyone that if you disagree with something (And pay attention, this is not even about epic but it's about every form and shape of protest against anti consumer things of this industry) you are a gamergater and/or you are fueling an hatred war or something.
Eat it and shut up basically, the wet dream of every corporation.
All of that because a couple of mentally disturbed guys can use military tier weapon inside a mall in the USA no-question-asked. Sorry folks but your country is ruining this world in the social sphere
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For the love of... The devs who no longer need Patreon money because they just got a dump truck full of cash now need more Patreon money to make them feel wanted. I'd suggest that maybe people should support the thousands of indie developers who ARE financially struggling, but I'd likely be labelled as "Gamer™ garbage" and put on a block list.
The fact that they have a patreon bears no impact on EGS or their tactics. This, in my opinion, is pointless drama and is unrelated to the problems with exclusivity. I suggest to just ignore it, whether you are happy for the devs or have a more cynical outlook. This is between them and the people who make the choice to personally support them. This is none of our business.
Things like that is only going to lead more of the bad shit siding itself with the "anti-egs" crowd. The more it seems that EGS is for the "SJW"s the more GGers are going to use it as a way to be shits.
Fuck fuck fuck fuck.
Fuck fuck fuck fuck.
None of that. Even phrasing it that way is accepting it.
Exclusivity. EGS's bare-bones state. Those are the only, central points that matter. The rest is hot garbage of suffering and hate that only piles higher the more it is stirred.
Thank you for listening, that's a big and heartwarming thing.
I don't think they achieved anything actually impactful because, well, they were already preaching to the choir. Before this Ooblets thing games media were overwhelmingly in favor of Epic because "gamers are entitled, devs are starving and it's just a launcher". Now they're overwhelmingly in favor of Epic because "gamers are toxic, devs are scared and it's just a launcher". To be blunt, I don't give a crap what they think.
I've explained my position before: The games industry and media ramping up its war against the anti-EGS side means only one thing: The backlash against Epic is having an effect. PR is their greatest weapon but they can't force people to buy something they don't want to. It's as simple as that. In order for Epic's plan to succeed they'll have to win over the people who are invested in PC gaming, the core PC community, and that group has become pretty much immune to PR since it's been called every bad name in the book over the years.
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None. But there were a few indies that wanted to get in to use it as just another store, dip their toes n stuff, see what it's all about, take advantage of the news/hype for the store's launch window, whatever. And they were rejected because their game was already on other platforms or whatever, get back to us in a year or something maybe or when you have something better/new was the tone of the replies iirc but I could be wrong. Pro-indie/pro-developer my ass
Edit: like this, the dev's points are all things I've said before too (and others, I'm not special, we're all handwaved away by the pro-EGS hivemind anyway):
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You know that hot GAMER garbage? How about you support a GAME dev on this GAME
Your point is well reasoned and I agree with most of it.
However, in the context of this forum, I'm a "gamer". We all wear hats assigned to us in life and while we all disagree with the labels in our head, it doesn't change that other people have already put us in that box. I'm part of a IRL club with the title "geek" in it. I don't identify as a geek but when I'm there, that's what I am.
I hate this term "toxic". It can DFA for all I'm concerned. Its basically meaningless.
For other communities, they've created the term, something-fan. For some reason, we don't have the term "gaming-fan/video game fan/ game fan" and its now just "gamer". Gameaphile? Who knows.... Someone calls me that with the intention of describing someone who plays games, then in that moment that's what I am.
And you can give me the label but if I have nothing to be ashamed of I'll be damned if I'm shamed just because its a negative label to YOU. (you as in the person hurling labels as insults)
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I never ignored a person on the old forums or era, but here I just had to. That's one for the record book.
I can’t go along with no sympathy for the developers. Video games are not worth death threats.
I think going forward, ignoring indies for taking a pay day is probably the better approach, unless they are doing some diabolical like refusing refunds on a Kickstarter.
Epic are the real bad guys here, not some small team taking a payday, no matter how big a douche they are.
I think going forward, ignoring indies for taking a pay day is probably the better approach, unless they are doing some diabolical like refusing refunds on a Kickstarter.
Epic are the real bad guys here, not some small team taking a payday, no matter how big a douche they are.
well, seems like valve just made a move:
www.pcgamesn.com
Can't wait to hear how they are terrible people for doing this!
Valve confirms changes to Steam’s “confusing” release date system
Devs now need to contact Valve to change a game's release date on Steam
www.pcgamesn.com
Can't wait to hear how they are terrible people for doing this!
Maniac
As the name suggests. The OG Maniac.
Dude. This isn't GAF, 4chan or Kiwifarms; Death threats are NEVER okay. These are fucking videogames, and it simply represents a single years delay for the rest of us.
Don't be like the fringe of our fandom that use their anonymity to launch attacks on people just for lulz.
It's not okay; none of this is okay. The worst response they should've gotten was "Dude that was a shitty take, but great you got funding! I'll buy it on Steam in a year"
That's thé worst they should've got. Instead they have death threats, physical letters mailed to their address, DOXXing en-masse and anti-semitism.
C'mon now bud.
I can't agree with this part, people have every right to fully express their displeasure about something in a civilized way. I'm not glad they got funded and I'm even less glad with how they addressed their audience when they announced it. I won't buy their game on Steam in a year. A proportionate response would've been something along those lines. And that's it. Nothing more.
I also believe that the blog post came exactly from the same Internet environment that enables all the harassment they've been getting. The one where you feel free to shit on, or be condescending to, or antagonize a relatively anonymous person from your relatively anonymous position with no fear of repercussions.
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Most are ignored. I don't see anyone talking about The Outer Wilds (or Hades or Ashen or others, only the couple EGS games that sold well are ever referenced again past their launch window) these days. Shame, I was excited when I heard the early student alpha I played was going to become a full fledged game that finishes off the concept but then it had to be Annapurna who went all in on EGS. Hopefully the devs got percentages or something so the Fortnite moneyhat benefited them too, not just the publisher who got the money to avoid risk and at the same time squander the potential reach of many such inventive indie games that could have struck gold for all we know (and now never will know, that ship has sailed even if they later get to Steam and elsewhere).
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Why should I buy their game?
Why should I care they got funding? there are thousands of other devs who get no funding or support
I wouldnt worry too much about Yoko Taro tweet. Saito had to fight people to get him financed at fucking Square Enix, and we already know that Epic isnt interested in funding development costs.
Plus, he is a console first dev.
And even then, if Epic funded him, while I wouldnt buy the game, it would be nice to see what he can do with an actual budget.
Plus, he is a console first dev.
And even then, if Epic funded him, while I wouldnt buy the game, it would be nice to see what he can do with an actual budget.
Actually I want to interject. Not about the death threats and other bullshit that doesn't require a genius to know what's right or not, but about buying on Steam. If you do buy on Steam, then you validate the viability of the exclusivity strategy.
You still gave them a sale, only later. That means to them that they can take Epic's check and later get the same sales numbers. The data will tell them to do just that : take Epic's money, then get all the money later anyway. There has to be financial repercussions in order for moneyhats to die a quick and swift death.
Maniac
As the name suggests. The OG Maniac.
You don't have to give a shit. You just have to not actively harass them or applaud death threats - Just don't be human scum was my entire point, really.
Actual critique of EGS is fine and good. The fact that they're further ruining the reputation of videogame Kickstarters and making PC even less enticing for newcomers - There's lots of shit to critique.
But indies getting stability in this day and age isn't really something that can be critiqued, and people are only further validating Tim and Epics strategy by going full-4chan on their asses.
Buy the game, don't buy it, wait for a sale when it's on Steam, pirate it, whatever; they've gotten significant stability. But absolutely do not fall into the trap of garbage human
Agreed, really.
Depending on your personal moral qualms; pirate it now, or don't; just... Buy it on a sale if you actually want to ever buy it.
Indies aren't getting stability, just some random folks won the Tim Sweeney Fortnite sweepstakes. That's not something general and all encompassing as indies (which as a rule are restricted from being on EGS as it's a closed platform that so far requires them to forfeit certain freedoms for the privilege if their existence is even acknowledged to begin with as for most that's not the case, they're relegated to being those shit games on that shit Steam platform as far as the media and Epic's all knowing curation process are concerned), it's only for the individuals that got the deal and being indies is no more relevant than their skin color, nationality or gender to generalize the trait. Hell, it remains to be seen how things pan out for those that won the lottery as, again, we hear next to nothing about the likes of Hades, Ashen, Outer Wilds and plenty other games as we only ever hear about less than a handful that have some kind of vague statistic Epic can capitalize on (but never actually disclose hard numbers). So, were they success stories because they got some money from Epic, does the fact nobody cares to even talk about them mean that they wouldn't care even if they had been on other platforms so Epic's money is what allows them to keep trucking, or did they squander their potential by being limited to that platform? Even if it's the former, is that good for gaming/the market or does it work against indies who make actually desirable products without relying on a billionaire to bail them out and pimp them for his own purposes? Better not pretend to know it's so great.
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Maniac
As the name suggests. The OG Maniac.
These deals (all the different variants) are treated as cash-infusions from a legal perspective. So it screws the devs' per-unit royalty agreement. At that point it's up to the publisher as to whether or not they're going to be generous and make a bonus payment to the devs.
But they're in no way entitled to as far as I've heard.
Anyway, all we've seen so far is... Two? games that've actually sold "sort of well but still well under projected Steam sales" whilst the rest have not been mentioned whatsoever, and then we have Metro: Exodus whose sales were compared to the "Complete Edition" SKU on Steam (which was, obviously, not the one with most sales) and a CEO that was very disappointed in the PC sales in a conference call.
(Though he did say it (EGS) was the best-selling digital PC version. He just didn't mention it was the only PC version.)
But it really isnt stability, they just get to live another day, because the amount of goodwill that went to the trash cant be ignored. Unless the money is enough to retire I guess.
As in, if someone puts a single dollar to fund a Shenmue 4, I'm sorry but they're fucking idiots. As I've said before, in general nobody says anything because the industry is so console centric. I remember the shitstorm about Bayonetta being Nintendo exclusive, despite being made with Nintendo's money. And how a lot of people conveniently set aside the Wii when it whooped the PS3/Xbox360 assess on sales. People will start caring when they start being inconvinienced.
Maniac
As the name suggests. The OG Maniac.
I'm being incredibly specific here.
I fucking hate the moneyhats. Epic has almost given a quarter of a million to just Ubisoft whilst giving meh deals to smaller studios and indies - But in this case, yeah. Two whole indie devs have gotten stability. I'm in no way trying to say indies are getting stability in general, because that's not the point of EGS and never will be. They're not pro-indie whatsoever.
So anyway... They've given stability to a handful of indie studios so far - But most of them very, very well known ones with lots of titles under their belt generating further revenue, most of them not in actual need of a moneyhat.
"But Kine!" you may scream.
Yeah, by that nobody that was co-founder of Irrational Games and their Art-Lead up until the day they closed their doors. I'm sure she would've had a hard time getting funding.
But... Yeah. There's no real need to hate on the devs themselves. You can feel whatever you want, of course; but just... Yeah. Don't join in with the silly mad men with their pitchforks. The real target here is Tim Swindler Sweeney. The toxic manbaby billionaire.
Short term stability is certainly stability. They've got enough to finish their game and probably finish a game after it.
Long term ramifications of these deals are TBD. I'd not be surprised to see some shunned, but mostly Gamers are stupid and of mindnumbingly low intellect and attention span, so... Other than some of the "core" audience, people forget.
Though if you piss off the core audience and make niche titles? You're screwed.
just to add to this, not only are indie devs NOT getting stability out of a few chosen ones but it is making things harder for Indie devs to get any funding whatsoever. I have stopped any and all kickstarter stuff. I will no longer back anything on kickstarter because I cannot trust a developer to live up to their promises whilst Timmy is around. Make no mistake what Epic are doing is bad in pretty much every way longterm for indies, customeres and the pc marketplace. No I don't think a few "lucky" indie devs getting short term stability is worth screwing the thousands of other indie devs that will be denied a source of funds now and the damage it is doing to the PC platform
Well, Shenmue is niche. So is Ooblets.
How much money did Ooblets exclusivity contract cost? A million? 5? 10?
If I were paid 10m right now, I would fuck off to a cozy village somewhere in Switzerland, invest the rest and retire. Especially after the amount of vitrol directed at the Ooblets dev.
Maniac
As the name suggests. The OG Maniac.
Yeah. That's what I've been saying for a while; the long-term ramifications for indies and our platform might be fucking horrendous. It's hard to say, but Kickstarter's already seen a very bad downward trend for games ever since a few notable "flops" and issues. (And Star Citizen lol)
It's only going to get worse, especially with Timmy boy fucking with us all just to have a laugh.
I feel offended by that as a backer that has really stuck it to CIG and kept updated, but I'll let it slide not to derail the thread.
What's interesting however is that contrary to popular belief, kickstarter has been remarkably stable for the past three years, hovering at US$ 16.5mil on average for purely video games campaigns. I look forward to having hard data about 2019 and 2020.
This is beyond disgusting. What is wrong with you?
dude wtf, don't be like this, take a deep breath and rethink about this.
The GOAT
I've been reading this thread for a few days now trying to put my thoughts into words, so excuse me if this comes out as a rambling mess.
I have been around GAF and it's ilk for a long time. I lurked Gaming-Age when it started in '99. I seen some shit over the years. I read/joined/lurked just about every offshoot of that community (The Bore, Opa-Ages, etc) and survived all the moves and database loses GAF had in it's infancy. I'm also not the most prolific poster, so I've gone under the radar for my entire "forum career". I remember when NeoGAF was hell for Nintendo fans (the MAF and Drinky Crow days for those that also remember) to the dramatic tonal shift of Off-Topic and subsequent silencing and banning of the Republican posters. And I was there for the downfall of Tyler and the mass migration of the community to ResetERA.
The family of forums we have come to call home is console-centric. They also love system warring and schadenfreude. Most of those posters rallying around EGS don't even own a PC, nor purchase games from digital storefronts. They hate Steam because Steam reignited the PC marketplace. Steam took their precious exclusives and bullet-points and gasp made them available to people that didn't buy their closed box of choice. We aren't a part of their "team" so they took offense to that. EGS pulling this shit is their way of getting one over on PC gamers. And any controversy (like Ooblets) lets them troll openly without the fear of punishment.
I've been PC gaming for a long time (1992). Just like GAF, I've seen trends come and go. I watched our market almost kill itself over piracy and chasing that elusive MMO buck. I've also watched Steam prove that piracy truly is a service issue. I've witnessed the rebirth of PC gaming and even the unthinkable become commonplace, Japanese developer support. Never in my wildest dreams since I played the original Wolfenstein would I ever imaged playing some of the biggest and smallest JRPGs on my platform of choice.
I guess the jist of my ramblings is this. Don't worry about what idiots like Nathan Grayson are pushing. He's just preaching to the choir. He, PC Gamer or any other host of hot take garbage aren't swaying any minds. The people rallying around those hit pieces are people already either not buying games on Steam, or aren't even PC gamers to begin with and just have an axe to grind because "system wars".
I have been around GAF and it's ilk for a long time. I lurked Gaming-Age when it started in '99. I seen some shit over the years. I read/joined/lurked just about every offshoot of that community (The Bore, Opa-Ages, etc) and survived all the moves and database loses GAF had in it's infancy. I'm also not the most prolific poster, so I've gone under the radar for my entire "forum career". I remember when NeoGAF was hell for Nintendo fans (the MAF and Drinky Crow days for those that also remember) to the dramatic tonal shift of Off-Topic and subsequent silencing and banning of the Republican posters. And I was there for the downfall of Tyler and the mass migration of the community to ResetERA.
The family of forums we have come to call home is console-centric. They also love system warring and schadenfreude. Most of those posters rallying around EGS don't even own a PC, nor purchase games from digital storefronts. They hate Steam because Steam reignited the PC marketplace. Steam took their precious exclusives and bullet-points and gasp made them available to people that didn't buy their closed box of choice. We aren't a part of their "team" so they took offense to that. EGS pulling this shit is their way of getting one over on PC gamers. And any controversy (like Ooblets) lets them troll openly without the fear of punishment.
I've been PC gaming for a long time (1992). Just like GAF, I've seen trends come and go. I watched our market almost kill itself over piracy and chasing that elusive MMO buck. I've also watched Steam prove that piracy truly is a service issue. I've witnessed the rebirth of PC gaming and even the unthinkable become commonplace, Japanese developer support. Never in my wildest dreams since I played the original Wolfenstein would I ever imaged playing some of the biggest and smallest JRPGs on my platform of choice.
I guess the jist of my ramblings is this. Don't worry about what idiots like Nathan Grayson are pushing. He's just preaching to the choir. He, PC Gamer or any other host of hot take garbage aren't swaying any minds. The people rallying around those hit pieces are people already either not buying games on Steam, or aren't even PC gamers to begin with and just have an axe to grind because "system wars".
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No. Just no.
It is inhumane, uncivilised assholish reaction that shows a false sense of entitlement among other things.
Not only considering that death threats is probably against the law, it doesn't help our position.
It legitimises the opposite one to the eyes of the people watching this issue and paint us all bad.
You can't threaten other people because of disagreements over video games, you accomplish nothing.
I watched the latest episode of Patriot Act and boy that Tim Sweeney part was hilarious. The guy is collecting lambos, vintage wines and jumps on bigass sofas while his employees are dying from the overwork and kids buy shit they don't even need. Champion of devs my butt.
It is incredible how many people take the bait that he wants to make PC better when his own employees are mistreated.
God damn it what a great post! Please go start your own pc gaming website or something, we need more of this.
To be fair, those clips are from an interview that took place like 10 years ago. We don't know if he's still doing all of that while his employees are exploited to the bone. It's a possibility, but I'd rather not jump to conclusions based on a video of the guy 10 or 15 years ago.
Yeah, I noticed that video was from the GoW days. These days he might be too old for tree hugging and sofa jumping, he'd rather troll the internet.
I agree. Don't let the last year of the shilling for EGS and the trolling get to you. Most of us have very long PC gaming histories, I started with the Half Life collect in Aug of 2004 myself. A lot of people will never understand the dark ages of 2007-2009 and how steam brought PC gaming back from the brink. Any comparisons to that time period and Epic buying its way in now is bullshit you try to sell only if you weren't there during the rise of the PC DD and steam era.
An aside, those places you listed, I don't consider this place to be part of that family. Those places are hostile and full of people ready to turn on you at a moments notice, with site admins and moderator's two sets behind as a real nasty streak is going on in both places. It isn't like that here and I'm glad.
I wonder what Epics plans are with the actual store. Right now, it's just a bunch of smaller and bigger tiles where you have to keep scrolling and scrolling to find what you want to buy.
There isn't many games on the Epic Store already and it takes a lot of time to scroll to the end.
There isn't many games on the Epic Store already and it takes a lot of time to scroll to the end.
O lol that article. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the intrinsic one-upmanship of callout rhetoric will have this thing jumping the shark sooner or later. Our strange influencer friends will continue deeper into bitch eating a cracker territory which has a similar effect to crying wolf.
If this has already escalated to valve encouraging harassment, the next reach is going to be further, and further the one after that. That can't go on forever.
Not that I'm saying there's nothing to worry about. Depending on how long it goes on, there could be some medium-long term damage done.
If this has already escalated to valve encouraging harassment, the next reach is going to be further, and further the one after that. That can't go on forever.
Not that I'm saying there's nothing to worry about. Depending on how long it goes on, there could be some medium-long term damage done.
Eventually I guess they plan on a storefront where it's easier to find a game than just reading a list but that's years down the line.
Nah, they went on record saying they're don't want to work on discoverability on their store, since they expect people to already know what to buy from elsewhere (i.e. from influencers that get paid their own cut of every sale they're responsible for).
Though their Trello does have a "Store Page Redesign" card that was planned for July, so ¯\(ツ)/¯ )
